Diana's Styles and Titles

[Elspeth]

Camilla, Queen Mum and Charles chose Diana, she was to be the gullible bearer of Charles' kids, she was perfect, naive, 19 years old, not expert, very frail, no mother to fight for her etc.- she knew nothing of the real world, she was really waiting for Prince Charming....- she produced 2 sons, and that was it, she was only a nuinsance from then on- she asked Charles to have a baby girl, but after Harry's birth, the spare heir's, he refused to have sexual relationship with his wife.

You talk as though she didn't have a choice - that she was chosen and had to just put up with it. If she'd had any sort of compassionate advice from her own family, she could have backed away from the whole situation gracefully before it developed the way it did. A close relative with her interests at heart should have sat down with her and given her a strong reality check, but it doesn't sound as though any of them ever did.

 

[tiaraprin]

well, I only hope every1 will respect other ppl's members' feelings- as you don't want any trash on Charles, I can understand it, some ppl, like me, don't want to hear Diana was a media manipulator and a liar, and while Charles can still defend himself and his past doings , Di has no chance , not anymore.... that's the reality- as for me, yes, there is a war of the Wales, if u mean Camilla is a Wales herself, unfortunately, though Diana is beeing exploited by every1 whom she trusted in her brief life, I can't c ppl, not even her own relative, who are trying to defend her memory.

Bravo and Kudos to you!!!! It is sad that we are the only ones to defend Diana in a public forum and we never had a chance to meet her. Maybe that is because we have nothing to gain from it--We truly do it from the heart and not for money and fame!!

 

[ysbel]

A couple of things Diana said in the Panorama interview about William concerned me. First after James Hewitt, her lover, exposed their affair, she said that William brought her a box of chocolates and said, "Here Mummy, to make you feel better. I think someone hurt you." Then she mentioned he told her that he didn't care whether she was a Royal Highness.

It sounds all nice and lovey-dovey but William was 14 then at Eton, at an age and a place where young teenage boys mercilessly tease each other for any notoriety and William with his parents fighting it out in the papers and being royal was a prime candidate to be harassed by his schoolmates. A former schoolmaster basically said, after this interview, he is going to get bullied for some of the things she said. Teenage boys can be quite cruel to each other.

She realized the effect the paparazzi had on the shy William but she really didn't see the effect her own words about their relationship could have affected him.

 

[Alicky]

You talk as though she didn't have a choice - that she was chosen and had to just put up with it. If she'd had any sort of compassionate advice from her own family, she could have backed away from the whole situation gracefully before it developed the way it did. A close relative with her interests at heart should have sat down with her and given her a strong reality check, but it doesn't sound as though any of them ever did.

And not only that, but Diana said repeatedly that she knew exactly what was going on with C&C the entire time. Doesn't sound too naive to me.....

 

[tiaraprin]

And not only that, but Diana said repeatedly that she knew exactly what was going on with C&C the entire time. Doesn't sound too naive to me.....

In the Panorama interview, she says she instinctively knew when he went back to Camilla; she didn't give an actual time and date. She also said her instincts were confirmed by people "concerned for her welfare and the marriage."

 

[una]

I despite Camilla even more (as persons, not mainly because of Di)

My I ask why you despise Camilla as a person ( not because of Di)?. I find I know so little about her, it's hard to form an opinion.

 

[Alicky]

In the Panorama interview, she says she instinctively knew when he went back to Camilla; she didn't give an actual time and date. She also said her instincts were confirmed by people "concerned for her welfare and the marriage."

In Her True Story she gives all of her little experiences and encounters and talked about how she was suspicious of Camilla even as Charles proposed.

Actually, during Panorama, when she spoke about her "instinct," and how she had the "knowledge of it" from "people who minded and cared about" their marriage she was speaking about it in the context of "around 1986." So that also supports the pro-Charles version.

 

[Elspeth]

Well, hindsight is a convenient thing. It's much easier to put the picture together after the fact, and probably not nearly so easy to remember how one felt at the time. I think all of these recollections, from Diana, Charles, and both their partisans, are going to be slanted.

 

[Duchess]

Diana's titles

this was probably addressed in the past and i saw a reference to it in another thread but i'm going to ask anyway and it's a 2 part question:
1) when diana married, did she give up her title of Lady?
2) did diana's title change after her father's death?

 

[sassie]

this was probably addressed in the past and i saw a reference to it in another thread but i'm going to ask anyway and it's a 2 part question:
1) when diana married, did she give up her title of Lady?
2) did diana's title change after her father's death?

No, she didn't give up the title of Lady-but she did stop using it. She could have chosen to continue with it and elected not to-probably because the felt Princess of Wales was enough to be formally known by.

She was, technically, always "Lady Diana", as the daughter of an Earl-her father's death did not change that.

 

[branchg]

As the daughter of an Earl, Diana was Lady Diana Spencer before she married and HRH The Princess of Wales after her marriage. She no longer was known as Lady Diana because her rank and title as the wife of The Prince of Wales was superior to her own.

However, after her divorce, technically, she was Lady Diana, Princess of Wales, as the former wife of a royal peer. She chose not to be styled this way and was simply Diana, Princess of Wales.

 

[Duchess]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Oppie]

If she got remarried she would have lost the ,Princess of Wales part (since it was acting more or less as a last name) If for example she married John Smith she could have been called Lady Diana Smith (like Lady Sarah Chatto).

 

[sara1981]

when she was teenage she was Lady when her Grandfather died in 1975 and im sure her dad granted her titles as Lady Diana Spencer i think so but im not sure as 100%

they later Diana become Princess of Wales when she married to Prince Charles in July 1981 but she will known as Princess Diana of Wales when got married and also Diana got finalised divorces from Prince Charles in August 1996 but she would known as Diana,Princess of Wales approved by HM Queen Elizabeth II.

im not sure answer my question about Diana would still Lady when she died in 1997 but she will known as Diana,Princess of Wales or still as Lady whatever mostly people in England always known Diana as Princess or Lady at her old home or Althorp to low-profiles since her death.

 

[branchg]

If she got remarried she would have lost the ,Princess of Wales part (since it was acting more or less as a last name) If for example she married John Smith she could have been called Lady Diana Smith (like Lady Sarah Chatto).

Correct, although it's likely that she would eventually been granted a peerage in her own right by The Queen upon remarriage, especially if she had additional children.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

Correct, although it's likely that she would eventually been granted a peerage in her own right by The Queen upon remarriage, especially if she had additional children.

I don't think Her Majesty or Prince Philip would have been too keen on granting Diana a peerage.

She had the use of the title Diana, Princess of Wales, after her divorce. Had she re-married, she would have, as you all correctly stated, dropped that and gone back to being Lady Diana Newlastname.

BTW, she did not become a "Lady" until her grandfather passed away and her father assumed the title. Until then she was known as "Honourable".

 

[georgiea]

I don't think Her Majesty or Prince Philip would have been too keen on granting Diana a peerage.

Diana was terribly upset with losing of her HRH status from the Queen. I don't think she would have taken any other title from the Queen after that. And I don't think the Queen would be to keen on granting Diana a peerage if she remarried and had more children. REMEMBER DIANA WAS ON THE OUTS WITH THE ROYAL FAMILY AFTER HER DIVORCE. MAYBE HAS BAD AS FERGIE IS WITH THE ROYAL FAMILY.

 

[branchg]

Diana may have been terribly upset, but she shouldn't have been since the rank of HRH came with her marriage, not in her own right. Reportedly, Diana herself offered to surrender her rank of Royal Highness in her initial meeting with The Queen, which was attended by aides taking notes, but later changed her mind about it.

In any case, The Queen declined to revisit the matter on the grounds that Diana wished to be independent and set her own agenda and public duties. So, she could not have it both ways.

 

[sassie]

Diana may have been terribly upset, but she shouldn't have been since the rank of HRH came with her marriage, not in her own right. Reportedly, Diana herself offered to surrender her rank of Royal Highness in her initial meeting with The Queen, which was attended by aides taking notes, but later changed her mind about it.

In any case, The Queen declined to revisit the matter on the grounds that Diana wished to be independent and set her own agenda and public duties. So, she could not have it both ways.

Well, not just reportedly-Diana herself issued a statement saying that she had agreed to Charles' request for a divorce and that she would be known as "Diana, Princess of Wales". The Queen just took her at her word. It's too bad she was upset-but she had only herself to blame for that one.

 

[branchg]

Diana telephoned The Queen at the end of the negotiations to ask if she could remain HRH, but her request was declined. The Queen felt she had made enough concessions, including a lump-sum payment of $26 million, not to mention allowing Diana to retain her huge residence at Kensington Palace and many other privileges.

 

[magnik]

• The Honourable Diana Spencer (1 July 1961-9 June 1975)
• The Lady Diana Spencer (9 June 1975-29 July 1981)
• Her Royal HidhnessThe Princess of Wales (29 July 1981-28 August 1996)
• Diana, Princess of Wales (28 August 1996-31August 1997)

The style "Princess Diana" was incorrect at all times of her life (often used by the public and the media). After her divorce in 1996 The Princess of Wales became known as Diana, Princess of Wales based on the divorce settlement signed by the Queen, although even this style would have lapsed if Diana had remarried. The family bond remained, however, as Diana was the mother of the future King. Diana, Princess of Wales herself made a point of correcting people who used it.

 

[branchg]

Well, the Palace also often referred to her as "Princess Diana", even after the divorce, so it's safe to say The Queen allowed this style informally since Diana was the mother of a future king.

 

[Furienna]

So it's wrong to say "princess Diana"? Should we just say "Lady Diana" or "Diana, princess of Wales"?

 

[branchg]

So it's wrong to say "princess Diana"? Should we just say "Lady Diana" or "Diana, princess of Wales"?

At the time of the divorce, the Palace spokesman said Diana should be addressed as "Ma'am" or "Princess". In general, she was referred to as "The Princess" formally.

Again, this was more of a gesture to Diana's position as the mother of a future king, rather than correct from a protocol standpoint. Technically, as she was no longer a princess of the UK or HRH after the divorce, she should have been addressed as "Lady Diana".

 

[EmpressRouge]

For those who have watched the great French film Amélie, you'll notice that Collignon and Lucien et al. refer to her as "Lady Di."

 

[Duchess]

For those who have watched the great French film Amélie, you'll notice that Collignon and Lucien et al. refer to her as "Lady Di."

this "Lady Di" reference is the one that really annoys me (not that how I feel makes a lick of difference) but reading an article some years bac where she said she didn't like being called Lady Di and asked people not to call her that. i know that it's an especially common reference in the US (not a slam against the US).

 

[windsorbrides1]

Diana's titles

By the rite of marriage to HRH Charles, Prince of Wales, Diana obtained her titles, and she retained the title of Lady of Spencer, as it was a hereditary title. Her are all of Diana's titles:

(Formerly HRH)
Diana Frances Spencer Windsor,

Princess Of Wales,
Duchess Of Cornwall,
Duchess Of Rothesay,
Countess Of Chester,
Countess Of Carrick,
Baroness Of Renfrew,
Lady Of Spencer
Great Stewardess Of Scotland,
Lady Of The Isles

 

[Elspeth]

I don't think Charles's Great Steward title has a female counterpart for his wife. However, by marriage to Charles she also became Princess of Scotland.

The Baroness title is Baroness Renfrew, there's no "of."

 

[branchg]

The Spencer earldom was granted as a personal title "The Earl Spencer", not after a place "Earl of Spencer". So, Diana was never "Lady of Spencer".

HRH Charles, Prince of Wales is also incorrect. He is styled HRH The Prince of Wales, along with all of his other titles as the heir to the throne. His birthright style was HRH Prince Charles of Edinburgh.

There is no such thing as Great Stewardess of Scotland or Lady of the Isles for a wife of the heir. She simply holds all the titles granted to the heir as a matter of form, not the ancient honours.

 

[Elspeth]

You mean Regiments.org has it wrong in its listing of her where it includes "lady of the Isles"?

http://www.regiments.org/biography/royals/1947camC.htm

Where is the source saying that the wife of the Lord of the Isles doesn't become the Lay of the Isles? There seem to be different opinions about it.