Charles III: Coronation Information and Musings - Part 2

[Duc_et_Pair]

So only Camila is wearing a tiara? Interesting.

That is the same as in Tokyo (only Empress Masako wearing a diadem, the female guests in formal daywear - picture) and in Amsterdam (only Queen Máxima wearing a diadem, the female guests in formal daywear - picture).

Guests in formal daywear in Tokyo: picture.
Guests in formal daywear in Amsterdam: picture.

 

[MARG]

How is it a bad idea?

No one is forced to do anything but those who want to can now do so at a specific moment in the service.

He has simply extended the homage by including all who want to to do so. In 1953 only the peers could do so while now all citizens can do so.

I notice that the two people who have said it is a bad idea are not from realms anyway so it doesn't apply to them.

As a citizen of a realm I see it differently for the simple reason that this man is now my King. I swore allegiance to Queen Elizabeth II when I joined the army and so have already sworn allegiance to Charles III.

I too swore allegiance to Queen Elizabeth II when I joined the RNZAF but, having retired I will be swearing my allegiance along with hundreds of thousands, if not millions invited to participate from their home, street, bar, restaurant etc. from all corners of the world in swearing their oath to their King.

I like good pomp and circumstance. But what monarchs do in other countries is essentially the same as presidents do: swear allegiance to the Constitution and promise to be a good and just head of state. It is just the re-affirmation of a centuries old contract between a family and the State. It can be done in 5 minutes, so to say.

Nothing of this prevents pomp. See the ceremonies in Amsterdam or Tokyo. But "chrism oil from the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem", an anointing of the Head of State of a secular parliamentary democracy, hidden behind a screen, the offering of "golden spurs" and a "golden spoon" , the wearing of "bracelets of sincerity and wisdom"...

Is it strange that people in the Realms and beyond are watching all this with growing disbelief? Is all this really happening in 2023, while queuing at congested Fulham Road with a screaming child in the back seat?

Because it harms no one. What does the year 2023 got to do with it. It's just a number.

Well, Duc my friend, I find myself at a total loss as to your anger or ill humour about our Coronation. Yes, there are countries with parliamentary monarchies across Europe where proclamation is the order of the day but, that is there and we will be in London at Westminster Abbey following those various arcane traditions and rituals, some dating over 1,000 years. That is a very rich tapestry of rituals and celebrations that are shared with the people.

For all we have been made aware of the differing relics and rituals, crowns, stones, thrones, orbs and sceptres, come the actual coronation, I do not believe that many will be counting the carats in the Cullinan but rather caught up in that ritual real time. Watching, indeed participating in what is really history in the making, singing that which we know, praying and swearing allegiance to our King.

So dear Duc, let us be our eccentric selves all around the world because this kind of pageantry is as British as Toad in the Hole. You may watch and shake your head at that eccentricity that is the UK and its Commonwealth.

 

[Prisma]

That is the same as in Tokyo (only Empress Masako wearing a diadem, the female guests in formal daywear - picture) and in Amsterdam (only Queen Máxima wearing a diadem, the female guests in formal daywear - picture).

Guests in formal daywear in Tokyo: picture.
Guests in formal daywear in Amsterdam: picture.

That photo of Empress Masako is from the parade on November 10, 2019. There were no foreign guests then. Also, Crown Princess Kiko wore a tiara.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/...ith-crown-news-photo/1187299453?adppopup=true

Empress Masako wore traditional junihitoe at the enthronement ceremony (yes, guests wore formal daywear here) on October 22, 2019 but there were tiaras at the banquet in the evening.

 

[Hallo girl]

MARG Well Said

'So dear Duc, let us be our eccentric selves all around the world because this kind of pageantry is as British as Toad in the Hole. You may watch and shake your head at that eccentricity that is the UK and its Commonwealth.'

I will watch every bit of it and yes be proud to be both Scottish and British. We have many faults , I will not bore you all by listing them, but I know who I am and what I want , I want pomp and majesty. Not as big as 1953 but we all have televisions now or laptops, the monarch doesn't need to do a 3 hour procession at the end.

Not all of you will agree with me but that is why we live in a democracy. Free Speech.
I do not want an elected head of state because believe me it will become political, I want someone who does the quiet diplomacy. Do you think it is a coincidence that the NHS staff have a prime seat to watch the procession.

As a wee add on here, anybody who watched the late Queens funeral would have seen the moving ceremony of the returning of the signs of power( Orb, Sceptre, and Crown) now it is being handed over to her son. That is what I want, continuity because we sure do not have that with our politicians.

 

[shady lady]

As a wee add on here, anybody who watched the late Queens funeral would have seen the moving ceremony of the returning of the signs of power( Orb, Sceptre, and Crown) now it is being handed over to her son. That is what I want, continuity because we sure do not have that with our politicians.

An excellent wee add on if I may say so. That had slipped my mind. It will be a tremendous moment. Continuity and some sense of stability that is very badly needed here right now.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Different countries have different traditions.

What’s the right thing to do in Netherlands, Japan or in Sweden is not neccessarily the right thing to do in the UK….

Likewise i doubt that the reciept for the monarchy to survive a future where more and more people will demand an elected Head of state, is the same everywhere

Can’t we just appreciate what we still have left of each countries traditions ?

None of us knows if William will have a coronation or even a throne to inherit, so lets be glad that we live TODAY and will get to experience this… Something noone born after 2 June 1953 has done

 

[Granada]

I am so looking forward to a day of bliss here in the States watching ( and rewatching) Coronation coverage and commentary. Already told my husband I'm "off" that day. Unavailable.

Off to park myself on the couch, LOL, for a break from depressing political and economic news here. For me to revel in the pomp and pageantry of Charles, Camilla and the UK-Commonwealth's Day. Whoever globally wants to celebrate and participate in a whatever way they want. Or not.

I remember in the run-up to William and Kate's Wedding there were reports of her supposedly going to wear flowers in her hair too, well that didn't happen. As a betting person, I still bet She, as Princess of Wales will opt for a Tiara. That's my hope anyway.

I still can't believe that it's been two years since Prince Philip died. If you had ever told me last year at this time that the Queen would be dead in under 6 months I wouldn't have believed that either.

I'm glad Charles's and Camilla are pacing themselves with events for the Coronation. They are unfortunately much older, elderly now, to be taking on too many physically exhausting appearances. Keep in mind that Camilla is 75, Her own Mother died at 72.

 

[Mbruno]

I am so looking forward to a day of bliss here in the States watching ( and rewatching) Coronation coverage and commentary. Already told my husband I'm "off" that day. Unavailable.

Off to park myself on the couch, LOL, for a break from depressing political and economic news here. For me to revel in the pomp and pageantry of Charles, Camilla and the UK-Commonwealth's Day. Whoever globally wants to celebrate and participate in a whatever way they want. Or not.

I remember in the run-up to William and Kate's Wedding there were reports of her supposedly going to wear flowers in her hair too, well that didn't happen. As a betting person, I still bet She, as Princess of Wales will opt for a Tiara. That's my hope anyway.

Whatever they wear, Charles can't win in the British press apparently. Some papers have already pushed the line that the King doesn't want Kate to wear a tiara because that would take the spot away from Camilla and himself.

 

[Denville]

Yes and there were stories before Will married Kate that he was going to ask the queen to make her a Princess in her own right. And people believed this nonsense, but it does not make it true.

 

[Denville]

I am
I still can't believe that it's been two years since Prince Philip died. If you had ever told me last year at this time that the Queen would be dead in under 6 months I wouldn't have believed that either.

I'm glad Charles's and Camilla are pacing themselves with events for the Coronation. They are unfortunately much older, elderly now, to be taking on too many physically exhausting appearances. Keep in mind that Camilla is 75, Her own Mother died at 72.

I think it was obvious that the queen's health was declining from about this time last year. She was in pain, frail and not even abel to get to her Jubilee events

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Yes and there were stories before Will married Kate that he was going to ask the queen to make her a Princess in her own right.

No, there weren't. You may be thinking of the stories that Prince William wanted himself and his wife to be known as Prince William and Princess Catherine.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...sh-styles-and-titles-258-344.html#post2518564

And people believed this nonsense, but it does not make it true.

And likewise, people not believing it does not make it nonsense.

 

[Adda]

The Duchess of Buccleuch and Queensberry, died on Sunday after a short illness following an operation. Her husband, the Duke, is due to take part in the Coronation carrying the Sceptre with Cross into Westminster Abbey.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/duchess-of-buccleuch-and-queensberry-dies-after-short-illness

 

[Alison H]

I really hope that the rumours about a floral headdress aren't true. It's a Coronation, not a dance round the maypole. Fingers crossed for a tiara!

 

[Blog Real]

I really hope that the rumours about a floral headdress aren't true. It's a Coronation, not a dance round the maypole. Fingers crossed for a tiara!

I also hope that the Princess of Wales will wear a tiara at coronation.

 

[shady lady]

I really hope that the rumours about a floral headdress aren't true. It's a Coronation, not a dance round the maypole. Fingers crossed for a tiara!

I think she'll wear a tiara. Maybe the Duchess of Edinburgh too?

Perhaps some of the children will wear floral crowns.

 

[duchessrachel]

Not falling for this frankly, the wording is so odd that makes me think this pure projecting from the royal reporters part.
Moreover there's not a single thing reporters have gotten right in the last few months, I'd be so surprised if this turns out to be true.

I remember that it was projected she would wear flowers in her hair in her when she married Prince William, but she wore a tiara. I think this is misinformation, too.

 

[duchessrachel]

MARG Well Said

'So dear Duc, let us be our eccentric selves all around the world because this kind of pageantry is as British as Toad in the Hole. You may watch and shake your head at that eccentricity that is the UK and its Commonwealth.'

I will watch every bit of it and yes be proud to be both Scottish and British. We have many faults , I will not bore you all by listing them, but I know who I am and what I want , I want pomp and majesty. Not as big as 1953 but we all have televisions now or laptops, the monarch doesn't need to do a 3 hour procession at the end.

Not all of you will agree with me but that is why we live in a democracy. Free Speech.
I do not want an elected head of state because believe me it will become political, I want someone who does the quiet diplomacy. Do you think it is a coincidence that the NHS staff have a prime seat to watch the procession.

As a wee add on here, anybody who watched the late Queens funeral would have seen the moving ceremony of the returning of the signs of power( Orb, Sceptre, and Crown) now it is being handed over to her son. That is what I want, continuity because we sure do not have that with our politicians.

So well said. I love my country of America, but I can see the benefits of the continuity of the constitutional monarchy in the United Kingdom as opposed to the mess right now that we have in the United States.

 

[Ista]

A series of off topic posts and responses have been deleted. Further posts along these lines will also be deleted.

 

[MajorCats]

I wonder if Catherine will a bespoke outfilt or one that is already made. I wonder if she will go with Alexander McQueen or Jenny Packham or someone entirely new.

 

[muriel]

I wonder if Catherine will a bespoke outfilt or one that is already made. I wonder if she will go with Alexander McQueen or Jenny Packham or someone entirely new.

I am expecting bespoke McQueen for the coronation, and possibly Packham for the reception on the 5th.

 

[Tirilschatz]

After seeing new pictures of Princess Eugenie I wonder if she will be able to attend such a long ceremony.

 

[muriel]

Information about the congregation at the Abbey

https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activ...-westminster-abbey-for-the-coronation-service

The Coronation Service of Their Majesties The King and The Queen Consort at Westminster Abbey will be attended by a congregation of more than 2,200 people. Guests attending will include Members of the Royal Family, as well as international representatives from 203 countries, including approximately 100 Heads of State, alongside community and charity champions.

The congregation will include:

Members of the Royal Family
Family members and friends of Their Majesties
Members of Foreign Royal Families
Heads of State and Foreign Ministers
Governors-General and Realm Prime Ministers
Members of the Government, Parliament and Devolved Administrations, including former Prime Ministers
Lord-Lieutenants and Lord Provosts
Representatives from the Church and other faiths
Representatives from the Defence Services, including serving and former Armed Forces personnel
Representatives from The King’s patronages, including The Prince’s Trust and The Prince’s Foundation
Members of the Diplomatic Corps
Public Service organisations and the emergency services
Representatives from The Queen Consort’s patronages
Representatives from the Law
Nobel Prize Winners
British Empire Medal recipients
Representatives from the Realms nominated by the High Commissions

In addition to the guests seated in the Abbey, 400 young people representing charitable organisations nominated by The King and The Queen Consort and the UK Government, will have the opportunity to watch the Coronation Service and Processions from inside St Margaret’s Church, Westminster Abbey, by kind permission of the Dean and Chapter of Westminster.

 

[Somebody]

After seeing new pictures of Princess Eugenie I wonder if she will be able to attend such a long ceremony.

Princess Madeleine was able to attend her brother's wedding only 2 days before giving birth to Nicolas.

H
Eugenies mother confirmed that she is indeed due any moment. So, I expect they are prepared for various scenarios. If at all possible, I assume she'll try to attend but plans will be in place what to do is she would need to leave mid-ceremony but also if she isn't able to attend after all..

 

[Tirilschatz]

Princess Madeleine was able to attend her brother's wedding only 2 days before giving birth to Nicolas.

H
Eugenies mother confirmed that she is indeed due any moment. So, I expect they are prepared for various scenarios. If at all possible, I assume she'll try to attend but plans will be in place what to do is she would need to leave mid-ceremony but also if she isn't able to attend after all..

She was even in early labourstage and had contradictions, but I think that the wedding was much shorter as I expect the coronation to be. And every woman is different.
Of course if she feels up to it on saturdaymorning, but this changes midservice, noone would blame her if she left early.

 

[Prinsara]

I don't know if it's already been linked, but there's an extremely delicious-looking chocolate model of the King that now exists. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...lebrations-unveiled-celebrate-Coronation.html

https://www.euronews.com/video/2023...t-of-king-charles-iii-made-entirely-from-choc

 

[Stefan]

She was even in early labourstage and had contradictions, but I think that the wedding was much shorter as I expect the coronation to be. And every woman is different.

But after the Wedding there was a big Gala Dinner which was broadcasted live on swedish TV. And she also attended it.

 

[wartenberg7]

what is a mess? the fact that she wont be wearing a gown or that she will be riding?

Her outfit (although the one affects the other one). Maybe I´m too oldfashioned, although I am much younger than the Pcss Royal herself, as my image of a Princess of the Blood Royal at a coronation still looks a bit more like the ones from previous coronations...

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Since Princess Anne will be riding a horse in the Coronation Procession, whoi might accompany Sir Timothy Laurence?

 

[muriel]

Since Princess Anne will be riding a horse in the Coronation Procession, whoi might accompany Sir Timothy Laurence?

We don't quite know how the British royal family will process to the Abbey.

Will there be procession, either in cars or carriages down the Mall, as is usually the case for jubilees and big weddings, or will they procession merely the King and Queen, with the others being send in a bus down Birdcage Walk?

 

[Marchesina]

We don't quite know how the British royal family will process to the Abbey.

Will there be procession, either in cars or carriages down the Mall, as is usually the case for jubilees and big weddings, or will they procession merely the King and Queen, with the others being send in a bus down Birdcage Walk?

My guess is the king and queen will go by carriage (we know already it is going to be the Diamond Jubilee State Coach on their way the abbey and the Golden State Coach to go back to Buckingham Palace), working royals will be travelling by car to the Abbey and with a carriage at the end of the ceremony. The others by bus instead, just like it happens during other big events.