Charles III: Coronation Information and Musings - Part 1

[SirGyamfi1]

I was not discussing the merit of the proposal. I was just saying that it is what the Labour leader is promising and, based on current polls, Labour will win the next election with a sizeable absolute majority in the House of Commons, so it won't have much trouble passing such reforms if it wants to. The Lords may veto the bill (which they won't if it is included in Labour's manifesto and Labour wins the election, google Salisbury convention), but, even if they used their veto, they could only hold up the bill for one year as the Commons, under the Parliament Acts, can override the Lords by passing the bill again in the next session of Parliament.


So I think it is very likely it will happen. A report by former PM Gordon Brown, commissioned by Sir Keir, was published today and, in addition to a Senate-like second chamber, it proposes giving further powers to Scotland (similar to what used to be called Devo Max), which may be the only way to prevent the Union from breaking up. Labour will do it for sure when they are in government.


Anyway, peers are becoming increasingly irrelevant and that will be probably reflected in changes to the coronation.

I don’t want to discuss politics here, but I highly doubt they will get far with those plans because for one thing, whether Labour or Conservative they will fill in the House of Lords with their own cronies(which they already do anyways) and no one is fooled by that. Peers lost political power after the Act of 1911 so they have been less powerful for a long time and I don’t see how the peers would be irrelevant to the coronation when they are the traditional and real supporters of the monarchy. People can write what they like when they are not in power for just in case but that doesn’t mean they would actually go far with it, they could attempt but not go further

 

[muriel]

Peers lost political power after the Act of 1911 so they have been less powerful for a long time and I don’t see how the peers would be irrelevant to the coronation when they are the traditional and real supporters of the monarchy. People can write what they like when they are not in power for just in case but that doesn’t mean they would actually go far with it, they could attempt but not go further

It is entrely possible that one or two of the peers can pay homage to the monarch, representing all the members of the House of Lords.

 

[Saragli]

I don’t want to discuss politics here, but I highly doubt they will get far with those plans because for one thing, whether Labour or Conservative they will fill in the House of Lords with their own cronies(which they already do anyways) and no one is fooled by that. Peers lost political power after the Act of 1911 so they have been less powerful for a long time and I don’t see how the peers would be irrelevant to the coronation when they are the traditional and real supporters of the monarchy. People can write what they like when they are not in power for just in case but that doesn’t mean they would actually go far with it, they could attempt but not go further

I disagree, the HoL's in its current state is so far beyond its expiration date that there is a desperate need for reformation. Plus, any reformation of the HoL's will have to take into account the devolved powers and how to actually make it more representative for the whole UK. There is a lot of political push and will for this.

The nobility are mostly irrelevant to modern British life and I can see no need, symbolically or not, for the peers to offer homage to the sovereign at the coronation or to even be there. If anything I'd just have the Lord Speaker of the HoL's pay homage on top of the PoW's.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I disagree, the HoL's in its current state is so far beyond its expiration date that there is a desperate need for reformation. Plus, any reformation of the HoL's will have to take into account the devolved powers and how to actually make it more representative for the whole UK. There is a lot of political push and will for this.

The nobility are mostly irrelevant to modern British life and I can see no need, symbolically or not, for the peers to offer homage to the sovereign at the coronation or to even be there. If anything I'd just have the Lord Speaker of the HoL's pay homage on top of the PoW's.

What has the peers “being mostly irrelevant to modern British life” have to do with them being at the coronation? I will just wait to watch the coronation to see if there will be any peers or just a few representatives. No one will touch the HOL issue with a big stick considering the nonsense from the latest reforms and in any case most of the people in there aren’t nobles anyways, majority are life peers, politicians from political parties who put there by the political parties.

 

[JGio]

Charles III: Coronation Musings and Information

Not as to the seating. Every story on the guest list has indicated an expectation that there will be around 2,000 guests, which is the Abbey's capacity without any modification.

I haven't seen any hint as to whether the floor where the thrones normally sit will be raised up.

For sure sure there’s not a logistic space-related need. But the theatre created a wow-effect. Creating a few tribunes , in a reduced fashion, would look very good and create a very different & regal atmosphere. Otherwise, the ceremony would resemble a very simple basic service at the Abbey, which a Coronation is not.
Also, putting the thrones on the ground floor would, to me, look a bit non-regal, so I hope they will add a few steps anyway. Attendants can have a better view of the situation.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

There was a Queen Elizabeth II Coronation Coloring Book.
Will there be a King Charles III Coronation Coloring Book?

 

[muriel]

I suspect the two seats reserved for a certain couple from overseas are likely to be freed up now and can be allocated to deserving members of the public.

 

[Spheno]

I haven't seen any hint as to whether the floor where the thrones normally sit will be raised up.

The Abbey has unique XIII c. Cosmati pavement. In 2010 a major cleaning and conservation program was finished and the pavement was revealed. Thus they don't need any additional structures, the place for the throne already is special.

 

[Blog Real]

Who will write the coronation anthem for King Charles III?

Here is a list of hymns that have been used at British coronations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_anthem

 

[CyrilVladisla]

What will change in the Coronation of Charles III?

 

[victor1319]

What will change in the Coronation of Charles III?

Thank you, Cyril, for the linking. Very interesing and highly appreciated!

My first take-away was the thingy with the peers. In my naivity I thought, the hereditary high nobles would still sit in the House of Lords... - Well, the vid claims, there are only mostly so called 'life peers'... So, who will replace the Barons and Earls at the coronation? An interesting question since the "real" nobles ought their standing to the Crown, to William the Conqueror to be exact, who was the only ruler over the land (at least for a second), until he shared the land and the power with his lieutenants. The 'life peers'... - their allegiance is more to the politicans...

And what is with the regional assemblies and Parliaments - another good question! Theoretically the leader of even the Scottosh National Party should be obliged to honor the new King... Albeit I would not bet on it...

The thingy with the Crowns was already discussed here in the Forums. But I must say, I personally hate the idea, that the large Indian diamond gets broken out of the Queen Consort's Crown, just to be political correct.

And new to me was, that the first balcony appearance of the Royal Family was in 1937. Really? How cheered the folks to and with the Royals before? Let's say after World War One?

 

[Curryong]

https://www.unofficialroyalty.com/coronation-of-king-george-v-and-queen-mary/


According to the above article King George V and his Consort and the Prince of Wales (later the Duke of Windsor) appeared on the BP balcony several times on Coronation Day.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Thank you, Cyril, for the linking. Very interesing and highly appreciated!

My first take-away was the thingy with the peers. In my naivity I thought, the hereditary high nobles would still sit in the House of Lords... - Well, the vid claims, there are only mostly so called 'life peers'... So, who will replace the Barons and Earls at the coronation? An interesting question since the "real" nobles ought their standing to the Crown, to William the Conqueror to be exact, who was the only ruler over the land (at least for a second), until he shared the land and the power with his lieutenants. The 'life peers'... - their allegiance is more to the politicans...

And what is with the regional assemblies and Parliaments - another good question! Theoretically the leader of even the Scottosh National Party should be obliged to honor the new King... Albeit I would not bet on it...








The thingy with the Crowns was already discussed here in the Forums. But I must say, I personally hate the idea, that the large Indian diamond gets broken out of the Queen Consort's Crown, just to be political correct.

And new to me was, that the first balcony appearance of the Royal Family was in 1937. Really? How cheered the folks to and with the Royals before? Let's say after World War One?

victor1319, Sometimes a vocal narration is a lot better than just reading a lengthy detailed explanation.

????​

At which hotels will the visiting crown princes and crown princesses stay for the Coronation?

What company will make the coronation robes?

 

[ppetrica]

I suspect the two seats reserved for a certain couple from overseas are likely to be freed up now and can be allocated to deserving members of the public.

I should hope so, too.
I am aware that Charles loves his son and always will, it's perfectly normal.
And he'll never go as low as Harry and Meghan. As expected.
And should keep being dignified and not resentful.

But...

Coronation is not a private family event.
It's a state event, the major event of one's reign.
Harry and Meghan have shown how much they despise, disrespect and don't understand the history, tradition, legacy, monarchy, UK, British society and the Commonwealth.
Until they show they want to understand and to respect them (and so far, they haven't shown any sign that they want to), they shouldn't be allowed to attend anything.

 

[royalistbert]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...ce-coronation-favour-glorious-pomp-pageantry/ Good news indeed

 

[Blog Real]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...ce-coronation-favour-glorious-pomp-pageantry/ Good news indeed

They are good news. A coronation is a big event and should be treated as such.
I'm very curious to see this coronation.

Can some members of foreign royal families stay in the British royal family's residences?

 

[victor1319]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...ce-coronation-favour-glorious-pomp-pageantry/ Good news indeed

So, they want to showcase "UK.plc" in a lavish way?

What is remarkable: They alledgedly want to do so for the impression abroad, to impress internationally.

But the last say about the Monarchy has the British people - Their opinion should be most important! Do we know from polls, what they think?

 

[duchessrachel]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...ce-coronation-favour-glorious-pomp-pageantry/ Good news indeed

I am so excited about this! It is great to hear it will be filled with pomp and pageantry. No one does that better than the British.

 

[W.Y.CII]

Wondering would the Norwegian and Danish utilize their royal yachts instead of stay in hotel? (I don't know is it a more convenient option though e.g. docking area, transportation to the venue etc.)

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Can some members of foreign royal families stay in the British royal family's residences?

if they were invited for certain period of time, then yes. But I think they would have to have a close relationship depending on the circumstances of the visit

 

[MARG]

I believe that all those in both the Commons and the Lords were overawed by the response to the death and funeral of Queen Elizabeth II, taking all the cynics by surprise and even more so with the enthusiasm with which the new King has been received (eggs from nutters notwithstanding). The entire world was awed by the fact that the UK planned a State Funeral with all the bells and whistles. What they were not prepared for was a continuing flow of information as traditions going back hundreds of years unfolded before them.

More importantly, the UK itself got a reminder of just how their Parliamentary Democracy works and the part their Royal Family play on the world stage and how it inspired within them a sense of pride in the history and stability of their country that a lot of them had forgotten or never known. Awful to say, but the death of our late Queen and the ascension of our new King resounded not only around the UK, but the Commonwealth of Nations, not to mention other countries all around the world.

In straitened times, the impulse to hold on to what we have and cling to it is never greater and I am sure that Whitehall, the Commons and Lords have all received the cost and income of the Funeral etc. weighed well with tourism and the hospitality sector. They would also have weighed the soft diplomacy opportunity when so many heads of state were all in one place at one time.

It is all very prosaic but in the end, the Coronation will be an occasion to the advantage of the UK and precisely how much historic pomp and ceremony entailed in the Coronation will be dictated by a well informed government.

 

[wbenson]

Ede & Ravenscroft is the usual supplier of robes to the royal family, going back several centuries I think. I'm not sure anyone else is even in that market in the 21st century.

 

[Durham]

Wondering would the Norwegian and Danish utilize their royal yachts instead of stay in hotel? (I don't know is it a more convenient option though e.g. docking area, transportation to the venue etc.)

A good question! Nothing more exclusive than your own yacht. The (gorgeous) Dannebrog came to London for the 2012 Olympics. It was docked at Canary Wharf. Not sure about the Norge.

Most foreign royals would stay at ambassadorial residences I would think. Failing that London has thousands of five star hotel rooms in some of the world's great hotels like Claridge's, The Dorchester, Brown's, the Connaught, the Savoy, the Ritz etc.

 

[Durham]

I believe that all those in both the Commons and the Lords were overawed by the response to the death and funeral of Queen Elizabeth II, taking all the cynics by surprise and even more so with the enthusiasm with which the new King has been received (eggs from nutters notwithstanding). The entire world was awed by the fact that the UK planned a State Funeral with all the bells and whistles. What they were not prepared for was a continuing flow of information as traditions going back hundreds of years unfolded before them.

More importantly, the UK itself got a reminder of just how their Parliamentary Democracy works and the part their Royal Family play on the world stage and how it inspired within them a sense of pride in the history and stability of their country that a lot of them had forgotten or never known. Awful to say, but the death of our late Queen and the ascension of our new King resounded not only around the UK, but the Commonwealth of Nations, not to mention other countries all around the world.

In straitened times, the impulse to hold on to what we have and cling to it is never greater and I am sure that Whitehall, the Commons and Lords have all received the cost and income of the Funeral etc. weighed well with tourism and the hospitality sector. They would also have weighed the soft diplomacy opportunity when so many heads of state were all in one place at one time.

It is all very prosaic but in the end, the Coronation will be an occasion to the advantage of the UK and precisely how much historic pomp and ceremony entailed in the Coronation will be dictated by a well informed government.

I agree with all of this. It is a fantastic opportunity to showcase Britain. As you say millions around the world will be fascinated by the history & spectacle. Most national tourist boards would sell their own grandmothers for that sort of publicity. For the bean counters of Whitehall & elsewhere hopefully they will work out that the coronation is an investment that will yield fantastic dividends for the the country.

It would also be great to have all the realms involved. Mounties, slouch hatted
Australian infantry & the wonderful NZ army band would be a great draw. In fact I'd go further & have a role for the GG's (not sure how exactly). The Mall lined not just with the Union Flag but with the Maple Leaf & the Southern Cross in white & red.

 

[JGio]

Do we have further news on the dresscode for guests? Are robes required to aristocrats?

 

[muriel]

Do we have further news on the dresscode for guests? Are robes required to aristocrats?

Not yet. No details of the events surrounding the Coronation have been released just yet. Expect public announcements closer to the date.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Do we have further news on the dresscode for guests? Are robes required to aristocrats?

Buckingham Palace have made virtually no announcements.

We have a date - 6th May.

We know that there will be about 2000 guests down from the about 8000 that the late Queen had.

We know that the Crown has been removed from the Tower for refitting for Charles III.

Nothing else has been confirmed.

 

[victor1319]

Bunte online, the German tabloid, has now for the second day an article online...
https://www.bunte.de/royals/britisc...-kann-fuer-die-kroenung-ein-problem-sein.html

And this one claims, there might be a problem with the coronation in principle - Because Charles is divorced and he was an adulterer... with the woman to become his Queen, which is divorced too.

And the problem results out of the fact, that the Church crowns the new King and makes him the Chief of the Church as well...

They cite some experts too, which published in the British newspapers Mirror and The Guardian - The Mirror sees no Problem here, but The Guardian does.

My personal take: I think this is very funny, if one considers, that the King is only Chief of the Church because of King Henry VIII.. The very King who preferred divorce by the sword and who was six times married.

But other people might see this different...

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Bunte online, the German tabloid, has now for the second day an article online...
https://www.bunte.de/royals/britisc...-kann-fuer-die-kroenung-ein-problem-sein.html

And this one claims, there might be a problem with the coronation in principle - Because Charles is divorced and he was an adulterer... with the woman to become his Queen, which is divorced too.

And the problem results out of the fact, that the Church crowns the new King and makes him the Chief of the Church as well...

They cite some experts too, which published in the British newspapers Mirror and The Guardian - The Mirror sees no Problem here, but The Guardian does.

My personal take: I think this is very funny, if one considers, that the King is only Chief of the Church because of King Henry VIII.. The very King who preferred divorce by the sword and who was six times married.

But other people might see this different...

Bunte is clearly behind the times and the changes (1) the Church of England changed its opinions on divorces and has allowed for remarriage so I don’t get their issue?
As for the Guardian, they will do anything to discredit for Monarchy true or false. It’s pathetic.

 

[VictoriaB]

Bunte is clearly behind the times and the changes (1) the Church of England changed its opinions on divorces and has allowed for remarriage so I don’t get their issue?
As for the Guardian, they will do anything to discredit for Monarchy true or false. It’s pathetic.

The question actually was raised in a letter to the Guardian by Anthony Holden, former biographer of Charles who has made no secret of his loathing for the King. Holden quoted the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Robert Runcie. Lambeth Palace has responded that times have changed since Dr Runcie died, that the then Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr WIlliams, had no problem blessing the marriage of Charles and Camilla and that the current Archbishop, Dr Welby is looking forward to crowning Charles and Camilla.

Of interest, I noted that that the Archbishops of Canterbury and York, Dr Williams and Dr Carey, former Archbishops of Canterbury, were present at the King’s Ascension Council and, presumably, had no problem in agreeing that he is the rightful King.

It’s just a storm in a teacup and completely bogus.