Charles III: Coronation Information and Musings - Part 1

[Somebody]

Most likely attendees from the various royal houses (wild cards are mainly the monarchies with young adults as heirs (The Netherlands, Belgium and Spain) imho:

Norway: Crown prince & crown princess
Sweden: Crown princess & prince Daniel
Denmark: Crown prince & crown princess
The Netherlands: Prince Constantijn & princess Laurentien OR The princess of Orange and/or Queen Máxima (OR they could even send princess Beatrix)
Belgium: Prince Astrid & prince Lorenz OR Princess Elisabeth and/or Queen Mathilde
(I don't expect to see Albert and Paola)
Luxembourg: The hereditary grand duke & hereditary grand duchess
Liechtenstein: The hereditary prince & hereditary princess
Monaco: The Prince & Princess (N.B. Albert also attended Willem-Alexander's coronation, so he doesn't seem to mind that he himself is a head of state)
Spain: Queen Sofia OR Queen Letizia (The Princess of Asturias is still a minor)

 

[Biri]

Luxembourg: The hereditary grand duke & hereditary grand duchess

Hereditary Grand Duchess Stephanie may be on the point of giving birth or regenerating after the birth (her due date is in April, and Charles III's coronation - 6 May), so I don't see her attending.

What about non-European monarchies?

 

[Lee-Z]

Apologies if this has been asked already:
Are dukes, earls and others paying homage to the new monarch?
(i'd love to see the Duke of Kent there, i thought it was very endearing how he talked about being in the coronation for QEII in one of the documentaries over the last years..)

 

[kimebear]

What about non-European monarchies?

I would guess that the Crown Prince and Crown Princess of Japan will attend.

 

[Somebody]

Hereditary Grand Duchess Stephanie may be on the point of giving birth or regenerating after the birth (her due date is in April, and Charles III's coronation - 6 May), so I don't see her attending.

What about non-European monarchies?

True! If she gives birth early April, I assume Guillaume will attend on his own. If the birth is very close to the coronation, would that be a reason to send someone else? And if so, who? The Grand Duchess? Felix and Claire seem to be rather low profile - I don't recall them attending any major European royal event.

 

[Durham]

Apologies if this has been asked already:
Are dukes, earls and others paying homage to the new monarch?
(i'd love to see the Duke of Kent there, i thought it was very endearing how he talked about being in the coronation for QEII in one of the documentaries over the last years..)

In the last coronation it was royal dukes plus the most senior peer of each degree. Maybe this time just the Prince of Wales on behalf of all peers royal or otherwise. Or the prince on behalf of royal peers & then the senior peers of each degree. Or maybe just working royal peers?

One thing for certain is that not all royal dukes will participate as they did in 1953.

 

[JGio]

Charles III: Coronation Musings and Information

Most likely attendees from the various royal houses (wild cards are mainly the monarchies with young adults as heirs (The Netherlands, Belgium and Spain) imho:

Norway: Crown prince & crown princess
Sweden: Crown princess & prince Daniel
Denmark: Crown prince & crown princess
The Netherlands: Prince Constantijn & princess Laurentien OR The princess of Orange and/or Queen Máxima (OR they could even send princess Beatrix)
Belgium: Prince Astrid & prince Lorenz OR Princess Elisabeth and/or Queen Mathilde
(I don't expect to see Albert and Paola)
Luxembourg: The hereditary grand duke & hereditary grand duchess
Liechtenstein: The hereditary prince & hereditary princess
Monaco: The Prince & Princess (N.B. Albert also attended Willem-Alexander's coronation, so he doesn't seem to mind that he himself is a head of state)
Spain: Queen Sofia OR The princess of Asturias and/or Queen Letizia

Have Queen consorts attended on their own in the past, in case no one else’s could go? They technically rank lower than their husbands Kings.. but if Queens attend, Camilla wouldn’t be the only Queen in the Abbey. Charlene and Maria Teresa are not queens and are also highnesses.

I see Spain sending Infanta Elena and Luxembourg with Guillaume alone (very sad Stephanie may not be there).

For Belgium and NL, I see both crown princesses going.

Will CP Hussein of Jordan be married by May 6th?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Interesting fact I just learned.

There is a Scottish peer who is still alive (aged 96 as born the same year as QEII). He attended as a page to his father both George VI's and Elizabeth II's coronation.

He is also related to the royals so may even attend Charles III's. He is Princess Alexandra's brother-in-law - the 13th Earl of Airlie.

I had thought that the Duke of Kent was the only one left from Queen Elizabeth's. He was the only one left who paid homage but his brother-in-law's brother was also at that coronation and the Duke's uncle.

 

[wartenberg7]

Have Queen consorts attended on their own in the past, in case no one else’s could go? They technically rank lower than their husbands Kings.. but if Queens attend, Camilla wouldn’t be the only Queen in the Abbey. Charlene and Maria Teresa are not queens and are also highnesses.

I see Spain sending Infanta Elena and Luxembourg with Guillaume alone (very sad Stephanie may not be there).

For Belgium and NL, I see both crown princesses going.

Will CP Hussein of Jordan be married by May 6th?

Queen Maud of Norway, neé Princess of GB and Ireland, attended her nephew´s coronation in 1937.
Normally Queens (consort), who are also "Majesties", do not attend a british coronation.

 

[Minister of Court]

Interesting fact I just learned.

There is a Scottish peer who is still alive (aged 96 as born the same year as QEII). He attended as a page to his father both George VI's and Elizabeth II's coronation.

He is also related to the royals so may even attend Charles III's. He is Princess Alexandra's brother-in-law - the 13th Earl of Airlie.

I had thought that the Duke of Kent was the only one left from Queen Elizabeth's. He was the only one left who paid homage but his brother-in-law's brother was also at that coronation and the Duke's uncle.

Yes indeed. He is also a former Lord Chamberlain and husband to one of the late Queen’s ladies-in-waiting. I hope we see the Airlies attending this coronation too.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Hereditary Grand Duchess Stephanie may be on the point of giving birth or regenerating after the birth (her due date is in April, and Charles III's coronation - 6 May), so I don't see her attending.

What about non-European monarchies?

Possibly some of the crown princes of the Middle East and Gulf states will come like from Jordan, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, etc. maybe some will or not.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

In the last coronation it was royal dukes plus the most senior peer of each degree. Maybe this time just the Prince of Wales on behalf of all peers royal or otherwise. Or the prince on behalf of royal peers & then the senior peers of each degree. Or maybe just working royal peers?

One thing for certain is that not all royal dukes will participate as they did in 1953.

Why do you think peers won’t participate this time?

 

[Durham]

Why do you think peers won’t participate this time?

I don't know if they will or they won't. It will be interesting to see. But with all this talk of a simplified coronation it does make you wonder.

 

[Ista]

I don't know if they will or they won't. It will be interesting to see. But with all this talk of a simplified coronation it does make you wonder.

It does indeed make you wonder, especially since it is a part of the ceremony that has the potential to eat up an extended amount of time. The question becomes how necessary it is, and what other parts of the coronation might be sacrificed to keep it if it was determined to be important. I'm very curious to see how it will all play out.

 

[Durham]

It does indeed make you wonder, especially since it is a part of the ceremony that has the potential to eat up an extended amount of time. The question becomes how necessary it is, and what other parts of the coronation might be sacrificed to keep it if it was determined to be important. I'm very curious to see how it will all play out.

That's why it crossed my mind that it might be just the PofW. As Duke of Cornwall he can take the oath for every peer.

I need to go through the last coronation service & see what's probably non essential. The central parts like recognition, anointing, crowning etc are well known so I do wonder what the other two hours or so were made up off. There was a communion service wasn't there?

 

[SirGyamfi1]

That's why it crossed my mind that it might be just the PofW. As Duke of Cornwall he can take the oath for every peer.

I need to go through the last coronation service & see what's probably non essential. The central parts like recognition, anointing, crowning etc are well known so I do wonder what the other two hours or so were made up off. There was a communion service wasn't there?

They will probably take it out to save time.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Would it not be better if not much more details about the Coronation were given? Each time some news is declared, some people may wonder how accurate is the news source.
One example is: When is the Date of the Coronation?
Some reports gave June 3rd.

 

[4Pam]

I can't wait to watch the coronation. I remember seeing clips of QEII's and her coronation was beautiful. But I'm also wondering what the simplified version would look like.



Also, I'm curious to see who will be there.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Would it not be better if not much more details about the Coronation were given? Each time some news is declared, some people may wonder how accurate is the news source.
One example is: When is the Date of the Coronation?
Some reports gave June 3rd.

Buckingham Palace announced that the coronation will be May 6th. That is official. https://www.royal.uk/coronation-his-majesty-king

The only other thing we know for sure is that the Crowns have been removed from the Tower to be resized for Charles ... no mention of any crown being removed for resizing for Camilla yet.

 

[JGio]

Do you think the Abbey will be set into a “theatre”, as they call it, like at past coronations?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Have Queen consorts attended on their own in the past, in case no one else’s could go? They technically rank lower than their husbands Kings.. but if Queens attend, Camilla wouldn’t be the only Queen in the Abbey. Charlene and Maria Teresa are not queens and are also highnesses.

I see Spain sending Infanta Elena and Luxembourg with Guillaume alone (very sad Stephanie may not be there).

The Infanta Elena or her niece the Princess of Asturias would be my guess from the kingdom of Spain!

 

[Stefan]

Would it not be better if not much more details about the Coronation were given? Each time some news is declared, some people may wonder how accurate is the news source.
One example is: When is the Date of the Coronation?
Some reports gave June 3rd.

Depends from where the Information comes. Only what comes from BP is official and thus also real. All what is in the Papers are Rumours.

 

[Spheno]

Do you think the Abbey will be set into a “theatre”, as they call it, like at past coronations?

There is no need to do this. Now they use tv screens in the Abbey.

 

[wbenson]

Do you think the Abbey will be set into a “theatre”, as they call it, like at past coronations?

Not as to the seating. Every story on the guest list has indicated an expectation that there will be around 2,000 guests, which is the Abbey's capacity without any modification.

I haven't seen any hint as to whether the floor where the thrones normally sit will be raised up.

 

[Stefan]

Not as to the seating. Every story on the guest list has indicated an expectation that there will be around 2,000 guests, which is the Abbey's capacity without any modification.

I haven't seen any hint as to whether the floor where the thrones normally sit will be raised up.

Looking at pics from 1953 and 1937 the raised Area (Plattform) went until where the Choir stalles are beginning. I guess they would need the space as there will not only the coronation chairs for the King and Queen but also St. Edwards Throne.

 

[Mbruno]

It does indeed make you wonder, especially since it is a part of the ceremony that has the potential to eat up an extended amount of time. The question becomes how necessary it is, and what other parts of the coronation might be sacrificed to keep it if it was determined to be important. I'm very curious to see how it will all play out.

Back at the last coronation, hereditary peers were still members of the House of Lords, so they still played an important role in the constitution of the United Kingdom.

Nowadays things have changed. There are only 92 remaining hereditary peers in the House of Lords; the other members are all life peers or bishops. Moreover, the Leader of the Opposition, Sir Keir Starmer, has vowed that, if the Labour Party wins the next UK general election, which is very likely at the moment, he will introduce legislation to abolish the House of Lords entirely and replace it with a popularly elected Senate representing the regions and nations of the United Kingdom. Honestly I can see that happening especially in the context of the UK evolving to a more federal model of government to mitigate Scottish separatism.

It is entirely possible then that, by 2025 (orm later, by the end of Sir Keir's first term as PM), hereditary peers in the UK will be in the same position as the nobiity of continental Europe, i.e., they will retain their titles and the right to use and be cited by them, and may even retain their precedence in public acts, especially royal events, but, otherwise, they will have no institutional role in the government of the United Kingdom. In that context, I don't see why it would be relevant to have them play any role in the coronation either.

 

[muriel]

Most likely attendees from the various royal houses (wild cards are mainly the monarchies with young adults as heirs (The Netherlands, Belgium and Spain) imho:

Norway: Crown prince & crown princess
Sweden: Crown princess & prince Daniel
Denmark: Crown prince & crown princess
The Netherlands: Prince Constantijn & princess Laurentien OR The princess of Orange and/or Queen Máxima (OR they could even send princess Beatrix)
Belgium: Prince Astrid & prince Lorenz OR Princess Elisabeth and/or Queen Mathilde
(I don't expect to see Albert and Paola)
Luxembourg: The hereditary grand duke & hereditary grand duchess
Liechtenstein: The hereditary prince & hereditary princess
Monaco: The Prince & Princess (N.B. Albert also attended Willem-Alexander's coronation, so he doesn't seem to mind that he himself is a head of state)
Spain: Queen Sofia OR The princess of Asturias and/or Queen Letizia

Here is my take on the foreign royals who are likely to attend the coronation next May:

Norway, Sweden & Denmark: The respective Crown Prince & Crown Princesses
Japan: The Crown Prince & Crown Princess
Netherlands: Queen Máxima, with or without Catherine-Amalia, who may be conflicted due to exams. Alternatively, Princess Beatrix may represent the Netherlands.
Belgium: Queen Mathilde, with or without the Crown Princess, who may be conflicted due to exams
Spain: Queen Letizia, or perhaps, Queen Sofia.

 

[Somebody]

Here is my take on the foreign royals who are likely to attend the coronation next May:

Norway, Sweden & Denmark: The respective Crown Prince & Crown Princesses
Japan: The Crown Prince & Crown Princess
Netherlands: Queen Máxima, with or without Catherine-Amalia, who may be conflicted due to exams. Alternatively, Princess Beatrix may represent the Netherlands.
Belgium: Queen Mathilde, with or without the Crown Princess, who may be conflicted due to exams
Spain: Queen Letizia, or perhaps, Queen Sofia.

May is typically not exam period in the Netherlands for universities. The first semester runs from 4 September - 2 February and the second from 5 February - 29 June. See Academic Year Calendar of the University of Amsterdam.

I even found the specific academic calendar for PPLE. They'll have three exam weeks each block, however, Amalia will have a week off the first week of May (they've given the whole university a week off mid-semester), so she would be free to attend the coronation - her exams for Block 5 are end of May.

 

[Spheno]

Moreover, the Leader of the Opposition, Sir Keir Starmer, has vowed that, if the Labour Party wins the next UK general election, which is very likely at the moment, he will introduce legislation to abolish the House of Lords entirely and replace it with a popularly elected Senate representing the regions and nations of the United Kingdom. Honestly I can see that happening especially in the context of the UK evolving to a more federal model of government to mitigate Scottish separatism.

No way.
First, elections are very expensive affair and doesn't bring knowledge and expertise they want to have.
Second, all these professors, leading experts, financiers, former ambassadors, retired generals etc. are not interested in an elections. It would be the same bunch of politicians. Nobody needs more politicians in Westminster.

 

[Mbruno]

No way.
First, elections are very expensive affair and doesn't bring knowledge and expertise they want to have.
Second, all these professors, leading experts, financiers, former ambassadors, retired generals etc. are not interested in an elections. It would be the same bunch of politicians. Nobody needs more politicians in Westminster.

I was not discussing the merit of the proposal. I was just saying that it is what the Labour leader is promising and, based on current polls, Labour will win the next election with a sizeable absolute majority in the House of Commons, so it won't have much trouble passing such reforms if it wants to. The Lords may veto the bill (which they won't if it is included in Labour's manifesto and Labour wins the election, google Salisbury convention), but, even if they used their veto, they could only hold up the bill for one year as the Commons, under the Parliament Acts, can override the Lords by passing the bill again in the next session of Parliament.


So I think it is very likely it will happen. A report by former PM Gordon Brown, commissioned by Sir Keir, was published today and, in addition to a Senate-like second chamber, it proposes giving further powers to Scotland (similar to what used to be called Devo Max), which may be the only way to prevent the Union from breaking up. Labour will do it for sure when they are in government.


Anyway, peers are becoming increasingly irrelevant and that will be probably reflected in changes to the coronation.