Charles III: Coronation Information and Musings - Part 1

[Toledo]

Question about the specific coronation moment for KCIII's:
Who places the crown on his head? and, is that going to be the same for Queen Camilla or is the crown placed on her by the King? I'm thinking if it's like the painting of Napoleon crowing Josephine

 

[wbenson]

Question about the specific coronation moment for KCIII's:
Who places the crown on his head? and, is that going to be the same for Queen Camilla or is the crown placed on her by the King?

The Archbishop of Canterbury traditionally crowns the King. Sometimes another bishop has done it, often during political turmoils when the AoC was not a big fan of the new monarch.

For a queen consort, it's usually the Archbishop of Canterbury again, but in 1902 it was the Archbishop of York. There was apparently a belief in a "tradition" that it should be such, but further historical research found little backing for it. In 1911 and 1937, the Archbishop of Canterbury did both jobs. A queen consort is crowned while she kneels on a stool; she doesn't sit in the Coronation Chair where her husband sat.

 

[angieuk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Charles-IIIs-slimmed-coronation-revealed.html

I'm not suprised at all. It was never going to be like the 1953 Coronation.

 

[tommy100]

I think Charles will attend part of Ascot as the Crown owns the land and it was founded by a previous sovereign, Queen Anne. It is so intertwined with the Royal Family - there is still a "HM's representative to Ascot". The late Queen and Philip use to host a house party over Ascot inviting people to dine and sleep, and of course it often came after The Garter ceremony. Personally I hope that the King hosts Ascot this time and invites some foreign royals to attend after attending the Garter. Epsom is "just another sporting event" though an important one it is one Charles could much more easily allow others to attend instead of him - Anne and Camilla go alot themselves anyway.

I'm not at all surprised by the DM "revelations" - in this day and age a ceremony lasting hours and hours was never going to fly with the public, people just can't sustain that level of interest! I hope the Gold Coach is used for sure. And it will certainly be a wise move not to fill the Abbey with just MPs and House of Lords (which would total around 1350 of the 2,000 seats). Likewise I can't see all the nobility attending, more likely a select number of each, the senior title holders of each class of nobility. After that I think there will be representatives of things such as the NHS, charity sector etc.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Daily Mail has ”revealed” how Charles coronation will be many times before, just like they ”revealed” how the Queen’s funeral would be ? Yet they didn’t get everything right…

This is just how the initial plans looked… We don’t know what have changed and what’s still a part of the plan…

I don’t think anyone expected a 4 hour long church service anyway… 90 minutes is enough. Longer means people looses interest in it… It is well known that people had sandwich’s, snacks, water, soda and alcohol brought with them into the abbey in both 1937 and 1952, to make it through…

I wouldn’t even be surprised if Charles and Camilla goes for the Diamond Jubilee State Coach in the end… If the 26 and 32 year old Elizabeth II and Philip felt the ride in the Gold State Coach was ”horrible”, one can only imagine how the 74 and 76 year old Charles and Camilla must be feeling…

 

[FattenedUpMonarchy]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Charles-IIIs-slimmed-coronation-revealed.html

I'm not suprised at all. It was never going to be like the 1953 Coronation.

"The guest list for the ceremony is likely to be slashed from 8,000 to 2,000 with hundreds missing out"

Well, yes, around sixty hundred.

 

[Stefan]

"The guest list for the ceremony is likely to be slashed from 8,000 to 2,000 with hundreds missing out"

Well, yes, around sixty hundred.

I guess you mean 6.000


What i wonder.We know that in 1953 about 7000 people attenmded but what about the Coronation in 1902, 1911 and 1937

 

[Somebody]

I guess you mean 6.000


What i wonder.We know that in 1953 about 7000 people attenmded but what about the Coronation in 1902, 1911 and 1937

The quote was that hundreds would be missing out... So FUM made fun of that by saying it will be 60 hundred - so, the correct way to describe it would have veen that thousands would be missing out. Not hundreds....

 

[Durham]

The Gold State Coach could perhaps be used to take St Edwards Crown (&/or the Imperial State Crown) from the palace to the abbey if The King uses the Diamond Jubilee Coach to travel.

The service will look magnificent close up & in colour. This will be the single biggest difference with 1953. And it will astonish & engage millions around the world with its beauty, history & religious symbolism.

I suspect the anointing will remain out of sight as in 1953. A canopy held aloft over The King by four Knights of the Garter would be a splendid sight. And Garter Knights are now a lot more diverse than they were in 1953. For example one is a woman of colour & another a former female head of MI5.

Hopefully the homage by the senior peer of each degree will remain the same & they will be robed & coroneted accordingly. Or at least not dressed in lounge suits! To avoid drama The Prince of Wales can do homage on behalf of the royal dukes.

I hope the route after the service is not just the usual Whitehall-Trafalgar Square or Horse Guards- The Mall. It needs to be much longer. Thousands of troops marching up St James’s Street or Regent’s Street or Piccadilly would be a splendid sight. There won’t be fifty thousand soldiers as there were in 1953 but if Paris can host over four thousand marching troops every single year on Bastille Day then the British Armed Forces can do similar. Canadian Mounties & Australian/NZ soldiers would also get a massive welcome from the crowds.

There are over a thousand professional musicians in the British Armed Forces as well as numerous reserve military bands. It should be a fantastic shindig.

Members of the armed forces of course are paid whatever they're doing so there’s no extra cost other than transport/accommodation. The largest expense will be security. But the coronation will also generate interest & tourism. So for the bean counters there might even be good news.

If ever Oscar Wilde's maxim about cost & value was appropriate then it's here.

 

[wartenberg7]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Charles-IIIs-slimmed-coronation-revealed.html

I shutter at the mention of lounge suits...

Me too. Coronation service only lasting about 1 hour..?! I´m very disappointed! I relied on Charles being a man of tradition...
And what the heck is a "lounge suit"? One can only hope the D M igot it all wrong one more time!

 

[wartenberg7]

The Gold State Coach could perhaps be used to take St Edwards Crown (&/or the Imperial State Crown) from the palace to the abbey if The King uses the Diamond Jubilee Coach to travel.

If ever Oscar Wilde's maxim about coast & value was appropriate then it's here.

No. Despite all slimming down (which will actually mean the very end of coronation ceremonies like they used to be from 1830 to 1953...!), the Golden State coach will be used by the King and Queen themselves, not for the crown jewels.

 

[Durham]

No. Despite all slimming down (which will actually mean the very end of coronation ceremonies like they used to be from 1830 to 1953...!), the Golden State coach will be used by the King and Queen themselves, not for the crown jewels.

I would prefer that the Gold Coach carry The King but if that doesn't happen then transporting the crown(s) might be the best alternative. At least it would then have a role & be seen.

 

[irish_royalist]

The Gold State Coach could perhaps be used to take St Edwards Crown (&/or the Imperial State Crown) from the palace to the abbey if The King uses the Diamond Jubilee Coach to travel.

The service will look magnificent close up & in colour. This will be the single biggest difference with 1953. And it will astonish & engage millions around the world with its beauty, history & religious symbolism.

I suspect the anointing will remain out of sight as in 1953. A canopy held aloft over The King by four Knights of the Garter would be a splendid sight. And Garter Knights are now a lot more diverse than they were in 1953. For example one is a woman of colour & another a former female head of MI5.

Hopefully the homage by the senior peer of each degree will remain the same & they will be robed & coroneted accordingly. Or at least not dressed in lounge suits! To avoid drama The Prince of Wales can do homage on behalf of the royal dukes.

I hope the route after the service is not just the usual Whitehall-Trafalgar Square or Horse Guards- The Mall. It needs to be much longer. Thousands of troops marching up St James’s Street or Regent’s Street or Piccadilly would be a splendid sight. There won’t be fifty thousand soldiers as there were in 1953 but if Paris can host over four thousand marching troops every single year on Bastille Day then the British Armed Forces can do similar. Canadian Mounties & Australian/NZ soldiers would also get a massive welcome from the crowds.

There are over a thousand professional musicians in the British Armed Forces as well as numerous reserve military bands. It should be a fantastic shindig.

Members of the armed forces of course are paid whatever they're doing so there’s no extra cost other than transport/accommodation. The largest expense will be security. But the coronation will also generate interest & tourism. So for the bean counters there might even be good news.

If ever Oscar Wilde's maxim about coast & value was appropriate then it's here.

This sounds wonderful - I hope you have a direct line to the Duke of Norfolk!
As evidenced by the events after the death of the late Queen Elizabeth II, the British public (and indeed most of the world!) are still enthused by the associated pomp and pageantry and tradition, and aren't too concerned about cost.

 

[Durham]

This sounds wonderful - I hope you have a direct line to the Duke of Norfolk!
As evidenced by the events after the death of the late Queen Elizabeth II, the British public (and indeed most of the world!) are still enthused by the associated pomp and pageantry and tradition, and aren't too concerned about cost.

I agree. Despite degradations the monarchy remains central to our identity. I think many were surprised by their own reactions to the late queen's death. Some of that was definitely unique to her as an individual but much was because the death of any sovereign is a momentous event.

I think most Britons remain "quiet" or "cultural" monarchists. The alternative is a soulless republic. And there's no majority appetite for that.

 

[Denville]

what is soul less about a republic?

 

[Curryong]

what is soul less about a republic?

Yes, I don’t know that the French, for example, would regard their republic as ‘soulless’.

 

[Durham]

what is soul less about a republic?

Bland. Uninspiring. You can bet that's what we'd end up with. What do other forum members think I wonder? Maybe we should run a poll.?

 

[Hans-Rickard]

What i wonder.We know that in 1953 about 7000 people attenmded but what about the Coronation in 1902, 1911 and 1937

Here it can be read about the coronation in 1911 ” Following the arrangements for 1902, it was decided to limit the congregation to 6,000, far fewer than at earlier coronations”

Coronation of George V and Mary - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Durham]

Yes, I don’t know that the French, for example, would regard their republic as ‘soulless’.

Well of course they wouldn't. They have their own unique history of yo-yoing kingdom/republic/empire to explain for that. The French President is about as close as you can get to an elected monarch. But the French Presidency is the exception rather than the rule I think. At least in Europe.

In Britain we'd no doubt end up with a functional "modern" presidency dominated by our political class & two (& a half) party system. Pretty dull & uninspiring stuff.

 

[TLLK]

Me too. Coronation service only lasting about 1 hour..?! I´m very disappointed! I relied on Charles being a man of tradition...
And what the heck is a "lounge suit"? One can only hope the D M igot it all wrong one more time!

While I'm not certain of the DM's prediction of a one hour service, I had expected that the service would be much shorter than the previous ones. The Queen Consort has long had back issues would likely find it to be very uncomfortable to sit/stand/kneel for such a long time.

 

[Denville]

Bland. Uninspiring. You can bet that's what we'd end up with. What do other forum members think I wonder? Maybe we should run a poll.?

Soulless does not necessarily mean uninspiring, and I dont know of any evidence that republics are generally either uninspiring or soulless in the sense of having no inner meaning.

 

[Blog Real]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Charles-IIIs-slimmed-coronation-revealed.html

I'm not suprised at all. It was never going to be like the 1953 Coronation.

There will be some differences of course. But I doubt the "Daily Mail" knows what the coronation of King Charles III will be like.

 

[Durham]

Soulless does not necessarily mean uninspiring, and I dont know of any evidence that republics are generally either uninspiring or soulless in the sense of having no inner meaning.

But one meaning of soulless is uninspiring. And the point is that Britain would no doubt end up with a republic that was soulless. At least compared to a monarchy.

It wasn't a comment on republics in general but on a hypothetical British republic.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

The Gold State Coach could perhaps be used to take St Edwards Crown (&/or the Imperial State Crown) from the palace to the abbey if The King uses the Diamond Jubilee Coach to travel.

The service will look magnificent close up & in colour. This will be the single biggest difference with 1953. And it will astonish & engage millions around the world with its beauty, history & religious symbolism.

I suspect the anointing will remain out of sight as in 1953. A canopy held aloft over The King by four Knights of the Garter would be a splendid sight. And Garter Knights are now a lot more diverse than they were in 1953. For example one is a woman of colour & another a former female head of MI5.

Hopefully the homage by the senior peer of each degree will remain the same & they will be robed & coroneted accordingly. Or at least not dressed in lounge suits! To avoid drama The Prince of Wales can do homage on behalf of the royal dukes.

I hope the route after the service is not just the usual Whitehall-Trafalgar Square or Horse Guards- The Mall. It needs to be much longer. Thousands of troops marching up St James’s Street or Regent’s Street or Piccadilly would be a splendid sight. There won’t be fifty thousand soldiers as there were in 1953 but if Paris can host over four thousand marching troops every single year on Bastille Day then the British Armed Forces can do similar. Canadian Mounties & Australian/NZ soldiers would also get a massive welcome from the crowds.

There are over a thousand professional musicians in the British Armed Forces as well as numerous reserve military bands. It should be a fantastic shindig.

Members of the armed forces of course are paid whatever they're doing so there’s no extra cost other than transport/accommodation. The largest expense will be security. But the coronation will also generate interest & tourism. So for the bean counters there might even be good news.

If ever Oscar Wilde's maxim about cost & value was appropriate then it's here.

The route from Westminster Abbey to Buckingham Palace in 1911 according to Wikipedia ” Following the coronation service, the three processions returned to the palace in reverse order and by an extended route, passing through Pall Mall, St James's Street, Piccadilly and Constitution Hill.

The route from Westminster Abbey to Buckingham Palace in 1937 according to Wikipedia ” In 1937, this return route was extended significantly.[40] From Westminster Abbey, it passed around Parliament Square and up the Victoria Embankment (where 40,000 schoolchildren were waiting)[40] and then along Northumberland Avenue, into Trafalgar Square, up Cockspur Street through to Pall Mall; from there, the procession went up St James' Street, joining Piccadilly, then up Regent Street, then west along Oxford Street, before turning past Marble Arch and then down East Carriage Road, alongside Hyde Park; from there, the procession passed through Hyde Park Corner and then through Wellington Arch, on to Constitution Hill and then back into Buckingham Palace.[4]
The route in 1937 was 9.7 kilometer…

And in 1953 ” The return procession followed a route that was 5 miles (8.0 km) in length, passing along Whitehall, across Trafalgar Square, along Pall Mall and Piccadilly to Hyde Park Corner, via Marble Arch and Oxford Circus, down Regent Street and Haymarket, and finally along the Mall to Buckingham Palace”

It will be interesting to see wich route Charles chooses… I don’t think he will go straight back home from Westminster Abbey via Whitehall, Horse Guards Parade and The Mall - but i also can’t imagine him wanting to sit in a Carriage and wave with the Imperial State Crown on his head for almost 10 kilometer like his grandfather…

 

[Stefan]

The Gold State Coach could perhaps be used to take St Edwards Crown (&/or the Imperial State Crown) from the palace to the abbey if The King uses the Diamond Jubilee Coach to travel.

I think i read somewhere that the Crown jewels are brought to the Abeby the day before the Coronation and keept there in some special place.

 

[Mbruno]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Charles-IIIs-slimmed-coronation-revealed.html

I'm not suprised at all. It was never going to be like the 1953 Coronation.

I think it will be morning dress for MPs and other commoner guests and parliamentary robes (rather than coronation robes) for peers (no coronets); the only hereditary peers who will be invited are the 92 who have a seat in the House of Lords. The dress code for members of the Royal Family and guest foreign royals will be uniform with orders for men (or white tie with orders if they don't hold a military rank), and long dress with tiaras and orders for women. Alternatively, long dress with tiaras may be replaced by long dress with hats for the royal ladies (as in the Dutch inauguration or the Japanese enthronement), with a separate white-tie coronation gala dinner afterward where tiaras can be worn.

 

[Durham]

I think i read somewhere that the Crown jewels are brought to the Abeby the day before the Coronation and keept there in some special place.

Yes that's probably what happened in the past. I wonder if that can be changed? As I say I'd prefer it if the Gold State Coach was used to carry The King although it is reportedly uncomfortable & needs a lot of preparation.

 

[Durham]

The route from Westminster Abbey to Buckingham Palace in 1911 according to Wikipedia ” Following the coronation service, the three processions returned to the palace in reverse order and by an extended route, passing through Pall Mall, St James's Street, Piccadilly and Constitution Hill.

The route from Westminster Abbey to Buckingham Palace in 1937 according to Wikipedia ” In 1937, this return route was extended significantly.[40] From Westminster Abbey, it passed around Parliament Square and up the Victoria Embankment (where 40,000 schoolchildren were waiting)[40] and then along Northumberland Avenue, into Trafalgar Square, up Cockspur Street through to Pall Mall; from there, the procession went up St James' Street, joining Piccadilly, then up Regent Street, then west along Oxford Street, before turning past Marble Arch and then down East Carriage Road, alongside Hyde Park; from there, the procession passed through Hyde Park Corner and then through Wellington Arch, on to Constitution Hill and then back into Buckingham Palace.[4]
The route in 1937 was 9.7 kilometer…

And in 1953 ” The return procession followed a route that was 5 miles (8.0 km) in length, passing along Whitehall, across Trafalgar Square, along Pall Mall and Piccadilly to Hyde Park Corner, via Marble Arch and Oxford Circus, down Regent Street and Haymarket, and finally along the Mall to Buckingham Palace”

It will be interesting to see wich route Charles chooses… I don’t think he will go straight back home from Westminster Abbey via Whitehall, Horse Guards Parade and The Mall - but i also can’t imagine him wanting to sit in a Carriage and wave with the Imperial State Crown on his head for almost 10 kilometer like his grandfather…

Thank you for posting this information.

The 1911 route is by far the shortest so possibly that might be chosen. The only issue with that route is that there wouldn't be a final grand approach down The Mall.

 

[Durham]

I think it will be morning dress for MPs and other commoner guests and parliamentary robes (rather than coronation robes) for peers (no coronets); the only hereditary peers who will be invited are the 92 who have a seat in the House of Lords. The dress code for members of the Royal Family and guest foreign royals will be uniform with orders for men (or white tie with orders if they don't hold a military rank), and long dress with tiaras and orders for women. Alternatively, long dress with tiaras may be replaced by long dress with hats for the royal ladies (as in the Dutch inauguration or the Japanese enthronement), with a separate white-tie coronation gala dinner afterward where tiaras can be worn.

If the women just wear hats it'll be a big disappointment I think. Hopefully tiaras will be worn. And (some) members of the rf should process with their trains held by ladies/pages. At least The King/Queen & the Wales's.

 

[Alison H]

I hope they don’t water it down too much. It’s a coronation. Lounge suits and ordinary hats like some sort of 1950s church fete won’t really cut it.