British Royal Family Genealogy

[Skippyboo]

You have the line of Elizabeth and Philip well documented but you are missing a bunch of people such as the grandchildren of Margaret and Snowdon, plus none of children and grandchildren of the Gloucesters and Kents. That's the people that aren't that well known and people may enjoy more information about them.

 

[ukchrisuk]

You have the line of Elizabeth and Philip well documented but you are missing a bunch of people such as the grandchildren of Margaret and Snowdon, plus none of children and grandchildren of the Gloucesters and Kents. That's the people that aren't that well known and people may enjoy more information about them.

Hi Skippyboo

Many thanks for your prompt reply, I very much appreciate you taking the time to have a look at The Windsor Family Tree. The Royal members you mention are of course very important, but unfortunately I have to balance between the importance of the Royal line and the many relatives that have a link to the Windsor line, as is the case with all of my trees. I am also constrained to some degree by the asthetic look of the trees especially when using a cell phone to look at the trees. Your comments are worthy of consideration and when I actually get to a point when all the pages are complete, I may extend the links to include the lesser Royals and also create small trees accordingly

 

[Skippyboo]

Totally understand your dilemma. A family tree with any size is pretty hard to fit on a single page. Good luck. [emoji106]

 

[EllieCat]

You've got Catherine Duke of Kent
when it should be Katharine Duchess of Kent

I too always like to see all the descendants on a family tree, but i understand it can be quite unwieldy.

 

[ukchrisuk]

You've got Catherine Duke of Kent
when it should be Katharine Duchess of Kent

I too always like to see all the descendants on a family tree, but i understand it can be quite unwieldy.

Many thanks for your comments, I have now corrected the error

 

[Curryong]

I think the idea of smaller trees (saplings?) for the minor Royal branches is a good one. So much work! I commend you!

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

I was reading up on the Rothschild banking family. I found that they married into British aristocracy, with a Rothschild marrying a (I forget the title, I believe it's Earl) of Sunderland in the early 1910s or 1920s.
I was wondering if the Rothschilds or also the Earls Howe are related to the BRF?

 

[Ish]

I was reading up on the Rothschild banking family. I found that they married into British aristocracy, with a Rothschild marrying a (I forget the title, I believe it's Earl) of Sunderland in the early 1910s or 1920s.
I was wondering if the Rothschilds or also the Earls Howe are related to the BRF?

The Rothschilds have married into the British aristocracy a few times, but never an Earl of Sunderland. That title was merged with the Dukes of Marlborough in 1733 and there hasn't been a Rothschilds/Spencer-Churchill marriage.

Archibald Primrose, 5th Earl of Rosebery married Hannah de Rotschild, who was the daughter of Mayer Amschel de Rothschild. Hannah was Mayer's only child, and thus the wealthiest heiress in Britain at the time.

George Herbert, 5th Earl of Carnarvon married Almina Wombwell, who was the illegitimate daughter of Alfred de Rothschild. Alfred never married, and Almina was his only child and thus inherited a considerable amount from him.

Hugh Cholmondeley, 6th Marquess of Cholmondeley married Sybil Sassoon; her father was from the wealthy British-Indian Sassoon family dubbed to be the "Rothschilds of the East", and her mother was Aline de Rothschild, of the French branch of the family.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

The Rothschilds have married into the British aristocracy a few times, but never an Earl of Sunderland. That title was merged with the Dukes of Marlborough in 1733 and there hasn't been a Rothschilds/Spencer-Churchill marriage.

Archibald Primrose, 5th Earl of Rosebery married Hannah de Rotschild, who was the daughter of Mayer Amschel de Rothschild. Hannah was Mayer's only child, and thus the wealthiest heiress in Britain at the time.

George Herbert, 5th Earl of Carnarvon married Almina Wombwell, who was the illegitimate daughter of Alfred de Rothschild. Alfred never married, and Almina was his only child and thus inherited a considerable amount from him.

Hugh Cholmondeley, 6th Marquess of Cholmondeley married Sybil Sassoon; her father was from the wealthy British-Indian Sassoon family dubbed to be the "Rothschilds of the East", and her mother was Aline de Rothschild, of the French branch of the family.

Ah.
Are any current members of the BRF descended from those marriages?

 

[Ish]

I don't believe so. The Rothschild family is a fairly "young" family compared to most British aristocrats; these marriages all happened fairly recently; the Primrose-Rothchild marriage happened in 1878, the Carnarvon-Wombwell marriage in 1895, and the Cholmondeley-Rothchild marriage in 1913.

The founder of the family, Mayer Amschel Rothschild, lived from 1744-1812, and was a German Jew. His wealth put him on a path to great connections, but his religion would have limited his (or his family's) prospects for great marriages, and the family's not been around long enough for the descendants of the marriages to spread far into the nobility of Europe.

The genealogy of the Rothschild family can be looked up here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy_of_the_Rothschild_family

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

I read the article long before you posted it.
It was interesting.

I remember seeing a question I posted asking if HM The Queen is related to Leka II of Albania.
What about Diana?
And is Diana related to any Kings of France, Spain or Russia?

 

[Curryong]

Diana is descended from King Charles II of England through his illegitimate sons Henry Ist Duke of Grafton and Charles, 1st Duke of Richmond.

http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/columnists/the-laird-othistle/the-spencers-royal-stuart-ancestors/

Charles II's mother, Henrietta Maria, was the daughter of Henry IV, King of France, and his wife Mary who was the daughter of Francis, Grand Duke of Tuscany.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

(Replying to Curryong's quote)
Thanks for the info.
Is Diana related to the Earls Howe?

 

[Spheno]

(Replying to Curryong's quote)
Thanks for the info.
Is Diana related to the Earls Howe?

There are a lot of free genealogical databases. You can find the answer youself.

 

[Osipi]

Maybe someone here can answer and clarify a question I have. What is the difference between being related and being descended from?

I'm thinking that cousins 36 times removed would show that they have an ancestor in common but aren't really related in the normal sense of the world. Such as Diana was descended from Charles II's bastard but that doesn't mean she's related to him.

This is puzzling me. I'm not much of a genealogist at all and just wondering.

 

[Ish]

Maybe someone here can answer and clarify a question I have. What is the difference between being related and being descended from?

I'm thinking that cousins 36 times removed would show that they have an ancestor in common but aren't really related in the normal sense of the world. Such as Diana was descended from Charles II's bastard but that doesn't mean she's related to him.

This is puzzling me. I'm not much of a genealogist at all and just wondering.

Example: The Queen is related to Edward VIII, but she is descended from George VI.


Edward is someone who she has a direct family relation with (his father is her grandfather), but George is someone who is in her direct ancestry.

You are related to everyone you descend from, but you're not descended from everyone you're related to.

Charles II is most definitely someone Diana was related to, as he was a direct ancestor that she descended from. It's not a close relation - I think she's something like Charles' 7x great-granddaughter.

 

[Ish]

(Replying to Curryong's quote)
Thanks for the info.
Is Diana related to the Earls Howe?

Diana's grandmother, Lady Cynthia Hamilton (wife of Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer), was the granddaughter of Lady Mary Anna Curzon-Howe, who herself was the daughter of Richard Curzon-Howe, 1st Earl Howe (of the 2nd creation).

She is more closely related to the 6th Earl than the 7th Earl (and present) though Mary Anna was born from the second marriage of the 1st Earl, and the Earldom descended through the sons of his first marriage. However, one of the granddaughters through the second marriage married the 5th Earl, and was mother to the 6th, making it a closer relation to the Spencers. The 7th Earl is the first cousin of the 6th, and so is not descended from the 1st Earl's second marriage.

That got complicated....

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

There are a lot of free genealogical databases. You can find the answer youself.

I have tried to Google some, but have had no luck.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Diana's grandmother, Lady Cynthia Hamilton (wife of Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer), was the granddaughter of Lady Mary Anna Curzon-Howe, who herself was the daughter of Richard Curzon-Howe, 1st Earl Howe (of the 2nd creation).

She is more closely related to the 6th Earl than the 7th Earl (and present) though Mary Anna was born from the second marriage of the 1st Earl, and the Earldom descended through the sons of his first marriage. However, one of the granddaughters through the second marriage married the 5th Earl, and was mother to the 6th, making it a closer relation to the Spencers. The 7th Earl is the first cousin of the 6th, and so is not descended from the 1st Earl's second marriage.

That got complicated....

Yes it did!
Sounds like a soap opera!
Sorry for asking so many questions.
But what are some interesting Italian noble/royal characters the BRF is related to?
And is the BRF related to Louis XIV, King of France?

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

I read an article that said Prince William is related to the Boleyn family through 3 separate lines.
One (or all three) being from Mary Boleyn (Anne's sister).
Can anyone tell me how true this is?

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

I'm sorry for all my questions. But I have two more.

I read many years ago that either The Queen or Prince William (through his mother) is a cousin of PM David Cameron. Is there any truth to this?
And is Prince William related to Winston Churchill somehow (I know that his mother is related to the Churchills)?

 

[Lee-Z]

Without knowing the answer but if his mother is related, he is related too

 

[Osipi]

One thing that I think really had a huge effect on England and its peerage and bloodlines was the Black Death. Starting in 1348, its been stated that 30,000 of the estimated population of 70,000 was wiped out. The plague was to be a pandemic in England for several more centuries.

It stands to reason that those most likely to survive and live to propagate the bloodlines were the peers and the aristocrats having better access to uncontaminated food, better sanitation habits and more likely to be able to isolate themselves on their estates and quarantine the area.

The Black Death in England 1348-50

The last great plague hit London in 1665 through 1666. ""The Great Plague, lasting from 1665 to 1666, was the last major epidemic of the bubonic plague to occur in England. ... The Great Plague killed an estimated 100,000 people - almost a quarter of London's population - in 18 months."

https://www.google.com/search?clien...ague+of+1665&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Guess who was king at the time and fathered so many illegitimate children. Yeps. Charles II. Once again, the royals, the aristocrats, the peers and those close to the throne had a better chance of survival. Its not hard then to imagine how many people could trace their lineage back to Charles II in the illegitimate lines.

Perhaps one of the most interesting things I've come across as information for bloodlines is that *anyone* with even slight European ancestry can probably trace their family tree back to Charlemagne. Even the royals. Even the aristocrats and the peers and perhaps a lot of us here at TRF. This is an interesting article about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford

 

[Countessmeout]

I'm sorry for all my questions. But I have two more.

I read many years ago that either The Queen or Prince William (through his mother) is a cousin of PM David Cameron. Is there any truth to this?
And is Prince William related to Winston Churchill somehow (I know that his mother is related to the Churchills)?

Yes, through his mother as you already stated, William is related to the Churchill family. Very distantly.

The 3rd Earl of Sunderland is common ancestor to both. The earls later became dukes of Marlborough. Winston was the grandson of the 7th Duke. Diana's family is descended from the third son of the 3rd Earl. The third son, his son was made 1st Earl Spencer. That is the family Diana comes from.

David Cameron and his wife are both said to be distant cousins of the queen. I think 11th cousin is closest, one through William IV and the other Charles II. Samantha is via marriage, a member of the Astor family. Both her stepfather, and her mothers stepfather were Astors. Makes her stepfather abd step grandfather both distantly related to Harry Lopez (camillas son in law) who is an Astor on his mothers side.


As for the boelyn

Diana is descended from Mary through her daughter Catherine Carrey. A several time great granddaughter married into the Spencer family and us Diana's ancestress.

Charles is as well through the queen mum.
https://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/mary-boleyn-and-queen-elizabeth-ii/

 

[Ish]

Yes it did!
Sounds like a soap opera!
Sorry for asking so many questions.
But what are some interesting Italian noble/royal characters the BRF is related to?
And is the BRF related to Louis XIV, King of France?

I haven't really studied the geneology of Italian nobility or Royalty. so I couldn't say how they're related. That said, for most houses it's not so much an issue of "if" they're related but "how" they're related.

The Spencers are descended from the Medici family.

The Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are descended from 26 French monarchs. So, again, it's not so much a matter of if they're related, but how. I don't have the how though... I could say that the Queen and DoE are both descended from Charles VII of France, and both Charles VII and Louis XIV are descended from Louis IX of France.

 

[Ish]

I read an article that said Prince William is related to the Boleyn family through 3 separate lines.
One (or all three) being from Mary Boleyn (Anne's sister).
Can anyone tell me how true this is?

The Queen is descended from Mary Boleyn's daughter Catherine:

• Elizabeth II
• Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
• Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck
• Reverend Charles Cavendish-Bentinck
• Lt.-Col. Charles Cavendish-Bentinck
• Dorothy Cavendish
• Charlotte Boyle, 6th Baroness Clifford
• Richard Boyle, 4th Earl of Cork
• Charles Boyle, 3rd Earl of Cork
• Jane Seymour
• Frances Devereux
• Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex
• Lettice Knollys
• Catherine Carey
• Mary Boleyn

Diana is also descended is from Mary Boleyn's daughter Catherine:

• Diana Spencer
• John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer
• Cynthia Hamilton
• Rosaline Bingham
• Charles Bingham, 4th Earl of Lucan
• Anne Brudenell
• Robert Brudenell, 6th Earl of Cardigan
• Robert Brudenell
• Elizabeth Bruce
• Elizabeth Seymour
• Henry Seymour, Lord Beauchamp
• Frances Devereux
• Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex
• Lettice Knollys
• Catherine Carey
• Mary Boleyn

And Diana is descended from Mary's son, Henry:

• Diana Spencer
• John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer
• Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer
• Charles Spencer, 6th Earl Spencer
• Vice-Admiral Frederick Spencer, 4th Earl Spencer
• George Spencer, 2nd Earl Spencer
• Margaret Georgiana Poyntz
• Anne Maria Mordaunt
• Brig.-Gen. Hon. Lewis Mordaunt
• John Mordaunt, 1st Viscount Mordaunt of Avalon
• Elizabeth Howard
• William Howard, 3rd Baron Howard of Effingham
• Katherine Carey
• Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hundson of Hundson
• Mary Boleyn

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Which of the Medicis are the Spencers descended from?
And are the Spencers related to any non-reigning royal houses?

I don't know if my questions are off-topic or not, but I'll post them here--just in case someone may know the answers.

Also, are the Royal Family TRULY descended from the Tang Dynasty emperors, or is that still unproven?

Also, is The Queen descended from Georgiana Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire? I know that she is the Princess of Wales' 4x great-aunt though, but I want to know about if The Queen is descended from her.

I'm currently learning about the Earls Bessborough. Are any members of the BRF descended from them? Specifically Diana, Princess Michael or The Queen.

 

[Lee-Z]

Also, is The Queen descended from Georgiana Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire? I know that she is the Princess of Wales' 4x great-aunt though, but I want to know about if The Queen is descended from her.

If i'm not mistaken she's an ancestor of Sarah Ferguson, but i don't think HM is a direct descendent...

Im sure someone can explain better, but Georgiana Cavendish was married to the 5th duke of Devonshire whose father was the 4th duke of Devonshire. The 4th duke also had a daughter Dorothy (a.o.) and through her he is the great-great-great-great grandfather of Queen Elizabeth II (via Q.Elizabeth, the queen mother's side of the family)

 

[Ish]

Which of the Medicis are the Spencers descended from?
And are the Spencers related to any non-reigning royal houses?

I don't know if my questions are off-topic or not, but I'll post them here--just in case someone may know the answers.

The Spencers are descended from Charles II of England and Scotland, whose mother was Henrietta Maria of France, giving the Spencers a good number of very distant non-reigning royal relatives.

It's through Henrietta Maria that the Spencers descend from the Medicis; her mother was one Maria de' Medici, whose father was Francesco I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany who was the son of Cosimo I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany. There's a couple lines from Cosimo I...

1. Cosimo I
2. Giovanni dalle Bande Nere
3. Giovanni il Popolano
4. Pierfrancesco the Elder
5. Lorenzo the Elder
6. Giovanni di Bicci de' Medici
7. Averardo de' Medici
8. Salvestro de' Medici Chiarissimo

Averardo was the founder of the Medici bank, and I believe the first Medici we typically care about from a historical point of view.


Cosimo I also descended from Medici's through his mother:

1. Cosimo I
2. Maria Salviati
3. Lucrezia de' Medici
4. Lorenzo de' Medici
5. Piero di Cosmo de' Medici
6. Cosimo de' Medici
7. Giovanni di Bicci de' Medici (#6 on the paternal line)

I believe Diana's most recent royal ancestor is Charles II (and his brother James, who Diana is also descended from) that most of Diana's Continental European royal/noble ancestry comes from - and even then, it's not entirely "recent". Charles was I believe Diana's father's 7x great grandfather. So her family really isn't closely related to any foreign royals, reigning or non, other than through marriage. Charles is actually more likely to be more closely related to them, as most European royals descend from Johan William Friso, Prince of Orange, who was born 2 years after Charles II died.

 

[Ish]

Also, are the Royal Family TRULY descended from the Tang Dynasty emperors, or is that still unproven?

The lineage that's been posted on this thread that connects the Tang Dynasty to the House of Windsor is problematic... there are a few connections that it seems cannot be verified. I doubt it'll ever be proven.