Would the Lux. Princes be allowed to marry a Non-Catholic?

[firelight]

If the girl was a religious type, and her faith had a deeper meaning to her, surely she would be better off staying faithfull to her values and principles than giving them up for a cute guy?

So true, although I suppose if she's marrying the cute guy in question, he's a bit more than just cute to her!

Even if she's not religious, should she be going around pretending to a faith she has no belief in? Isn't that hypocrisy? If I were Luxembourgian citizen, I would have no trouble with a royal bride of any religion so long as the prince and his children remained Catholic. As long as the bride doesn't eat babies and drink blood, she'll be fine by me.

OTOH, if I were to marry a Catholic prince myself (ha! fat chance! ) I would probably not consider converting to Catholicism. It's no question of love or no love, duty or no duty. It's simply that I cannot believe in something I have no faith in. And to me, it's the worst sort of hypocrisy to pretend to confess a belief that I do not have. I don't mind other people making such a choice, but I doubt I could do it myself. It would make me very miserable to have to renounce my beliefs! So I guess I won't be joining gaggle & co. in that long line for Guillaume's hand in marriage. Unless the Lux family + people are willing to let me continue with my spiritually self-indulgent eroticism.

 

[Olyashka]

I agree with you, Lielac. I's just Guillaume who has to have a lot of considerations before marrying.
It's burdensome to convert due to religious questions. Whoever that girl Guillaume's going to marry,she's a lucky one (except if she is a member of another faith).

 

[sunshine_93]

I think that if they marry with non Catholic girl she must do the same like Marry.She must accept the Catholic religion.

 

[Shaiya]

They can marry whoever they want. I think the whole religiously exclusive thing is outdated and discriminatory. Obviously, I think Guillaume would have the most problems if he wanted to marry a non-catholic, but for the other princes, I'm not sure there would be as big of a fuss.

 

[Principessa Cano]

From what I understand, unlike in England, there is no law requiring the spouse of a member of the LRF to be Catholic. There is a separation of church and state, even though the population is predominately Catholic, and the Grand Duke is not the head of the church as the Queen is in England. I can see no legal reason why any member of the LRF would have to marry a Catholic or have their spouse convert.

As for religious reasons, the family, and the people, can't be that strictly Catholic if they had no problem with Louis having pre-marital sex and a child out of wedlock. Yes, he was taken out of the line of succession but Tessy and their sons all received titles eventually. It would seem extremely hypocritical to expect someone to abide by your family's religious afiliation when your family seems to be able to bend the rules when it suits them (ie. sex outside of marriage).

 

[Lighthouse]

Well-said! I think that for the Hereditary Grand Duke Prince Guillaume (Forgive me if I mess up his title) would probably have to marry a Catholic UNLESS for some miraculous reason the people of Luxembourg and his family fell in love with this girl. I don't think there are any laws concering this like England, though. But for Prince Felix and Sebastien...I think they will be a little bit more lenient because they aren't the ones who are going to be running a country. But yeah I'm Protestant but I don't go by labels...I just go by my relationship with Christ ^_^. But that would be awful if I couldn't marry the man I love...why go on living?

They could abdicate or renounce their place if they felt strongly enough to marry a woman who refuses to change from protestant to catholic. That's why there's that old saying "an heir and a spare"

 

[Lalla Meriem]

They could abdicate or renounce their place if they felt strongly enough to marry a woman who refuses to change from protestant to catholic. That's why there's that old saying "an heir and a spare"

I really doubt it would ever be an issue if Guillaume or one of his siblings chose to marry a non-Catholic.

You have to remember that it was a Catholic/Protestant marriage in the Grand Ducal Family that resulted in the introduction of Catholicism to the family. Prior to the marriage of the Guillaume IV to Infanta Marie Anna of Portugal the Grand Ducal Family was actually protestant. The son's of the union (since they would have succession rights) were to be Protestant and the daughters were to be Catholic like their mother. As it turns out, the marriage produced 6 Princesses and not a single Prince.

 

[amedea]

I really doubt it would ever be an issue if Guillaume or one of his siblings chose to marry a non-Catholic.

You have to remember that it was a Catholic/Protestant marriage in the Grand Ducal Family that resulted in the introduction of Catholicism to the family. Prior to the marriage of the Guillaume IV to Infanta Marie Anna of Portugal the Grand Ducal Family was actually protestant. The son's of the union (since they would have succession rights) were to be Protestant and the daughters were to be Catholic like their mother. As it turns out, the marriage produced 6 Princesses and not a single Prince.

Well I suppose that the idea was to raise also eventual sons of that couple as catholics because it was the religion of the country.
About nowadays princes, it is probable that if they choose non-catholic wifes the Grand Ducal Family would hope a conversion but if the bride refuses it they will probably accept her if she accept that all the children will be raisen in the Catholic faith. That clause is also the clause that usually persuade the Chatholic Church to accept mixed weddings.
An interesting question is if there would be some difference between the acceptance of a non-Catholic Chirstian and a Muslim or a Jewish.

 

[Lalla Meriem]

The sons were actually going to be raised protestant not catholic so I don't think that was the idea.

I think a Jewish girl would be accepted fine as would any variety of Christian girl. I think that a Muslim girl would only encounter resistance because Muslim women are not permitted to marry outside of their faith and none of the Lux princes would ever convert...they are very devout.

 

[amedea]

The sons were actually going to be raised protestant not catholic so I don't think that was the idea.

Here, for example it is stated the contrary Maria Anna do Carmo de Bragança (1861 - 1942) - Find A Grave Memorial

 

[Lalla Meriem]

I don't think Find a Grave is a reputable source. I have never read anything other than that the sons were to be their father's faith and daughters catholic.

 

[Lighthouse]

As they live in Luxembourg where most people are catholic, they'll probably end up married to catholics anyway.

 

[Lalla Meriem]

As they live in Luxembourg where most people are catholic, they'll probably end up married to catholics anyway.

Félix hasn't lived in Luxembourg for several years now, but he does consistently reside in Catholic areas. I think that Guillaume is still living in France. But, I do agree with you. I think they are all too catholic to marry a women who isn't catholic or willing to convert. Although, I can't imagine that it would be an issue if she weren't.

 

[Lady Claire]

I think the only one who could incounter some issues with a marriage to a non-Catholic would be Guillaume due to his position. I do not think the others would be as likely to incounter problems if they chose to wed a non- Catholic.

 

[Shikha Pal]

I think the girl has to convert to Catholic to marry one of the Princes or Princess.

 

[Dani90]

If I'm not mistaken Maxima of Netherlands is still Catholic but their children is raised Protestants. Maybe Luxembourg will allow the same

However in Guillaume's case I get the impression that he has a stronger belief than his siblings so then it might be more important for him that his wife share his belives.

 

[Lighthouse]

Regardless of who they marry, I think a marriage between a passionate Roman Catholic and a charismatic protestant (aka "convicted Christian" or "born again Christian") who speaks in tongues, wants you to be "saved" their way and seriously has different beliefs about how and when to baptise your children, could be tense.

 

[Dani90]

Yes it won't be easy but who said married life is

 

[Lalla Meriem]

If I'm not mistaken Maxima of Netherlands is still Catholic but their children is raised Protestants. Maybe Luxembourg will allow the same

However in Guillaume's case I get the impression that he has a stronger belief than his siblings so then it might be more important for him that his wife share his belives.

You are correct, Maxima is still Catholic and her children are raised in their father's faith.

I wouldn't necessarily say Guillaume is more Catholic than his siblings (they all seem pretty genuine), but he is certainly very Catholic. You don't cry during the Te Deum if you aren't devoted and you certainly don't study theology or join Catholic fraternities (not the US Greek type of frat) if you are not serious about your Catholicism. While I doubt it would ever be an issue for any of the de Lux kids to marry a non Catholic I sincerely doubt Guillaume would chose a women who didn't share his faith.

 

[Dani90]

You are correct, Maxima is still Catholic and her children are raised in their father's faith.

I wouldn't necessarily say Guillaume is more Catholic than his siblings (they all seem pretty genuine), but he is certainly very Catholic. You don't cry during the Te Deum if you aren't devoted and you certainly don't study theology or join Catholic fraternities (not the US Greek type of frat) if you are not serious about your Catholicism. While I doubt it would ever be an issue for any of the de Lux kids to marry a non Catholic I sincerely doubt Guillaume would chose a women who didn't share his faith.

Guillaume has said he wants a modern independent woman so I could think Guillaume would chose a woman who had another faith but that she has to understand the importance of their children being brought up as Catholic or convert to Catholicism herself since it is the main religion in Luxembourg

 

[Lalla Meriem]

Guillaume has said he wants a modern independent woman so I could think Guillaume would chose a woman who had another faith but that she has to understand the importance of their children being brought up as Catholic or convert to Catholicism herself since it is the main religion in Luxembourg

A modern independent women who would convert just because it was the faith of her husband? That's not very independent.

 

[Dani90]

It is if she makes the decision ;P But I don't think Guillaume would say no to a woman he loves just because she's not Catholic.

 

[Lalla Meriem]

It is if she makes the decision ;P But I don't think Guillaume would say no to a woman he loves just because she's not Catholic.

Oh sure, I think that Guillaume is himself an independent man who will marry the women of his own choice. That is not in dispute! We will have to agree to disagree on the matter of whether Guillaume would actually allow himself to become so involved with a women who is not Catholic at this juncture of his life.

 

[Dani90]

Oh sure, I think that Guillaume is himself an independent man who will marry the women of his own choice. That is not in dispute! We will have to agree to disagree on the matter of whether Guillaume would actually allow himself to become so involved with a women who is not Catholic at this juncture of his life.

I do see your point since Guillaume do have a strong belief so we don't totally disagree. Faith is a complicated matter and I would think it's a matter the Lux royals deal with. They seems quite modern but faith is obviously important for them so how they would think about a non-Catholic marrying any of the princes or the princess will be interesting to see

 

[Lighthouse]

Even if a woman choses to convert it isn't plain sailing. There are emotions (fear is one) involved with going against your upbringing and deciding to be different to your loved ones who may judge you for the decision to convert. There is a long catholic program to go through for starters. I know because a few months ago I had a major spiritual crisis and to cut a long story short I inquired with catholics about converting from protestant to catholic. I was told that I have to be 'sponsored' by a Catholic and then wait for a special program to start. The program goes for about one year and at the end of it you're catholic. ...Right now this is my little secret because it's pretty daunting (and tbh I'm not looking forward to the first confession bit).
Converting is more complicated than one would think and that's even when someone wants to do it.

 

[sunshine_93]

It is if she makes the decision ;P But I don't think Guillaume would say no to a woman he loves just because she's not Catholic.

Yes,I agree with you! The woman must accept catholic religion if she really loves him.Remmember what Mary does to marry a Frederick.

 

[Lalla Meriem]

I do see your point since Guillaume do have a strong belief so we don't totally disagree. Faith is a complicated matter and I would think it's a matter the Lux royals deal with. They seems quite modern but faith is obviously important for them so how they would think about a non-Catholic marrying any of the princes or the princess will be interesting to see

While I don't think that any of them would choose a non Catholic partner I think that Henri and Maria-Teresa would deal with it with perfect class, as usual.

Maria-Teresa is already on record saying that she will always support the choice of her children with respect for their partners because she remembers how it was for her. I don't think Henri would deny consent for any of their marriages because of how he had to fight for his own love. The people of Luxembourg identify as Catholic but are largely non practicing on a day-to-day basis. I doubt anyone would appreciate Paris Hilton or a Rock of Love girl, but I get the feeling that Luxembourgers genuinely want happiness for their royals.

Even if a woman choses to convert it isn't plain sailing. There are emotions (fear is one) involved with going against your upbringing and deciding to be different to your loved ones who may judge you for the decision to convert. There is a long catholic program to go through for starters. I know because a few months ago I had a major spiritual crisis and to cut a long story short I inquired with catholics about converting from protestant to catholic. I was told that I have to be 'sponsored' by a Catholic and then wait for a special program to start. The program goes for about one year and at the end of it you're catholic. ...Right now this is my little secret because it's pretty daunting (and tbh I'm not looking forward to the first confession bit).
Converting is more complicated than one would think and that's even when someone wants to do it.

I'm actually a Catholic convert myself. It's not so daunting of a process, but it is time consuming if you are unbaptised or non Christian. However, those baptized persons who have lived as Christians need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community and are not asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate. The process shouldn't be so long for you if you are already protestant. If you are serious (and previously Christian) it's just a matter of weeks or months not a year. Your local Parish should provide you with a sponsor it's not something you need to seek out on your own (though you can).

 

[Lighthouse]

You're right Lalla Meriem, it's not so much the process that's daunting. I'm thinking more about how some of my relatives will treat me afterward. That's why I haven't gone ahead and converted yet. Anyway my main point is that converting isn't plain sailing (for some).

 

[Olyashka]

Everyone except Alexandra and Sébastien are married so this question is only for the remaining single siblings. I think that most likely, if ever the two gets into a relationship with a non-Catholic and eventually marry that person (as long as it is Christian), their parents will consent. I am a fan of royal history more and I read many stories of love conquering religion. The difficult thing is if the person is non-Christian. I am sure the Grand Ducal Family knows 2 Corinthians 6:14. A non-Catholic knows and believes God like how Catholics do (to quote 1 Corinthians 12:5 - "There are differences of ministries but the same Lord". (NKJV)
But to non-Christians, don't lose hope. You still have a chance of marrying either Alexandra or Sébastian like the rest of us Christians. There's a long explanation of it in 1 Corinthians 7. If you're interested to know, why not try to read available Bibles in internet? It won't hurt anyway ^^ Ah, love and religion, such a great issue. After all, love conquers all as what history has shown...and 1 Corinthians 13:13: " And now abide faith, hope love, these three:but the greatest of these is love." : )

 

[Somebody]

Revisiting the Protestant vs Catholic children

I don't think Find a Grave is a reputable source. I have never read anything other than that the sons were to be their father's faith and daughters catholic.

A recent source in which this is expressed is: Multiculturalism, Identity and Difference: Experiences of Culture Contact by Elke Murdock

The sources that claim that all children were to be brought up Catholic, might just rely on the final result of ending up with 6 daughters who, because of the decision that was made, ended up being raised Catholic. Nonetheless, the grand duke might have been more open towards the idea of marrying a Catholic bride because of the Luxembourg population that was largely Catholic; and having at least have his daughters raised as Catholic might have seemed a good way of connecting to them, while securing a Protestant succession (the reason that he was on the throne at all was that the Luxembourg throne was only open for male descendants; so he most likely wasn't considering the option of his Catholic daughters succeeding him).

Currently, a relevant issue might be that the Grand Duke is considered one of the 'Catholic Monarchs' (with the privilege du blanc for the Grand Duchess); my guess would be that they would rather keep that position/privilege, so a Catholic bride (from background or 'converted') would be high on the list of preferences (if not requirements) for those higher up in line. For the moment, we have the raised Catholics Stephanie and Claire as brides of the first and second in line to the throne, with Amalia and Liam being baptized in the Catholic church; so I would guess that the pressure on Alexandra en Sebastien is a bit less in this respect - even though I would expect that they would prefer to find a husband/wife who shares their faith assuming that that is of fundamental importance to them. While marrying without consent is also one of the possibilities as we've seen with Louis (but I don't expect the bride/groom not being Catholic being a deciding factor).

Alexandra and Sebastien also went to a Catholic university, as did Felix, which not only gave them a 'Catholic education', but also increased the chances of finding a Catholic spouse, next to, roaming in the mainly catholic noble circles.