What do you think of Charlene?

[Lillia]

from Polfoto...
For me this picture shows what she wants.
Look the her face.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e64/evkaterina/6382820_POLFOTO-1.jpg

She wants money, flash, applauses, and people claim for her.
All thinghs that she never had...
she was a medium level swimmer. she is an ineducated girl. Without diploma. Without money.

I know , maybe I'm too hard with her. But, I'm that kind of woman that in her life had a lot of wars to win. Marry a man with $ is maybe the best thing to do. But I think that is not the good way to have what you need.

If you want something , you have to work work and work.
I was a chubby little girl, and I disliked my body... I worked hard and now I'm a nice girl, with a good body shape.
I was considered stupid, and after hours and hours of study, I'm taking my 2° deegree. (The first in Law, the second in Political Science)
when I was teenager I always use money (a lot of money tu buy dresses) of my parents... but growing up I decided to work hard and have my personal money.
I started my career working as receptionist... now I'm the assistant of a Politician...and I'll open soon my personal agency of PR.

And I'm sure that like me there are bilions of woman that everiday do it. Bilions of woman, who fighting for what they need. Fighting for what they believe.

Bilions of woman , but not CW...


Without him, she is nothing.

M.

There are also many women who cannot get what they truly want so they manage a way to get someone who has it (like Albert) and they purr all over him, make him feel young and interesting and soak in the benefit of being mistress to a rich man like Albert. Me, I'm not so sure about that approach, but ok, it works for some women. It is a way of accomplishing something.

Come on... we haven't seen anything from her. Every new royal lady was met with scepticism. Yet all of them: Camilla, Letizia, Máxima, etc. have turned out to be great spouses. So why not Charlene.

I guess, CW might be ok - I still think it's not realistic to compare CW to any of them. The other royal families seem to have different way of dong things in public - many of the recent princesses (& Camilla) have complet education and had careers and imo, carried themselves quite well. They also had the full up-front support of their Princes (and the organization) with clearly stated their intentions for these women. Albert has clearly stated his intention not to marry anyone, which is quite opposite of what one would expect from 'royalty' at least imo. But, this CW thing is no precedent in history and we are talking (basically) about Albert of Monaco.

CW has achieved the Olympics a long time ago, but I just don't think she's quite got it for representing MC at the moment. That's just my opinion and it means nothing, in fact. She does seem to have hold of Albert's (*bleep* - I will censor myself), and that's probably all that matters. IMO PA seems fickle, spoiled and just not serious other than having a girl on his arm that cannot outshine him (my opinion only). Since they've decided to put up with each other, then they both have what they ask for. Again, history shows that there is no precedent being set in any of it. Nothing at all new about it at all.

In the end could this actually be good for Monaco?

 

[Lady Jennifer]

maybe so, but at least Britain's Queen has beautiful manner and knows how to act in public! She at least has a flawless public manner, knows how to handle herself and there has never been a question about her ability. Britain has a true queen in HRH, not some cheap paper substitute! Perhaps it would be useless to compare someone like CW to Britain's queen. Things are just not like they used to be.

But do you think she was born like that? She has been trained to act perfect in public. That has been her life. The only life she knows. I think it would be unfair to compare Charlene to the Queen, just like it would be unfair to compare Charlene to any royal born.

 

[Henri M.]

Grace Kelly

Remember that Monaco was not at all hullabaloo with the prospect of their Prince marrying an actress. In an interview (aired last week on Dutch TV, in a special on Princess Gracia) the late Prince Rainier himself stated he had to fight scepticism and even hostility in the principality and in his own palace.

Yet Princess Gracia is by many seen as a 'perfect Princess', at least, if we do not look furtherer than a superficial look at the sugarcake fondant.

And I fail to see why Charlene Wittstock would be lesser than the playboy Philippe Junot or the playboy Stefano Casiraghi, the bodyguard Daniël Ducruet, the circus artist Adans Lopes Peres, etc.

 

[lckc571]

Remember that Monaco was not at all hullabaloo with the prospect of their Prince marrying an actress. In an interview (aired last week on Dutch TV, in a special on Princess Gracia) the late Prince Rainier himself stated he had to fight scepticism and even hostility in the principality and in his own palace.

Yet Princess Gracia is by many seen as a 'perfect Princess', at least, if we do not look furtherer than a superficial look at the sugarcake fondant.

And I fail to see why Charlene Wittstock would be lesser than the playboy Philippe Junot or the playboy Stefano Casiraghi, the bodyguard Daniël Ducruet, the circus artist Adans Lopes Peres, etc.

I am sorry to say it but one expects that the future princess is qualities, innate qualities, Charlene shows us what exactly... she is not involved any more, she claims to occupy oneself of disadvantaged children, not only one photo which could support her action (there really exists)

she never speaks about her team for the relay of swimming... which must one think? what don't they want any more her??
which example does she show with the young people? not need to work??? even in the sport?? not need to go to the school since she did stop very early and is left there well??? do you put the question???

if your boy brought back Charlene to the house and his intention announced to you to marry her ??? which would be your reaction?
lckc

 

[Lillia]

Remember that Monaco was not at all hullabaloo with the prospect of their Prince marrying an actress. In an interview (aired last week on Dutch TV, in a special on Princess Gracia) the late Prince Rainier himself stated he had to fight scepticism and even hostility in the principality and in his own palace.

Yet Princess Gracia is by many seen as a 'perfect Princess', at least, if we do not look furtherer than a superficial look at the sugarcake fondant.

And I fail to see why Charlene Wittstock would be lesser than the playboy Philippe Junot or the playboy Stefano Casiraghi, the bodyguard Daniël Ducruet, the circus artist Adans Lopes Peres, etc.

...and the Gottleib fellow (?) and then Tamara R and Nicole Coste and probably a few other nameless ones given by Albert. It actually goes to the point that there is no historic precedent being set (no dis-respect to Princess Grace). Nothing new at all there in Monaco. At the moment, CW is just like the others...

I guess people just want Prince Albert to act like the other Princes when it comes to this type of thing.

Like the others, even PR at least stated that he wanted to marry Grace.

 

[lisamaria]

I'd like to hear from Europeans as well. I always thought Europe had a very high level education system and offered many opportunities for its athletes. The IOC headquarters are there in Europe and they have an entire system dedicated to Education of athletes.

I had no idea Ysbel that Europe actually discourages its young aspiring athletes from getting an education. That is shocking to me.

Well, in America they did mock John Kerry for knowing French, didn't they No, I don't think athletes are discouraged from getting an education, but being an athlete won't buy you a place in the university either, like it does in America. My experience is (I'm in Oxford and judge accordingly) that the level of education varies from sport to sport - footballers like Beckham are sometimes practically illiterate, while athletes in some other disciplines have Ph.D.s. There is a multitude of reasons why that is.

I follow the Monegasque RF with only a superficial interest; I love Grace Kelly the actress though. My impression of Charlene is that she is a rather unremarkable person. That is why it puzzles me that so many people claim so violently to hate her. Okay, she isn't the most elegant of women, but neither are many born royals. She has blabbered? So have some others. Prince Albert isn't serious about her? I don't think he is serious, full stop.

Actually, she is just an ordinary girl, who got (sort of) lucky and now enjoys herself. And maybe that's it: if she, in all her ordinariness, pulled it off, why can't I? Or you? Or anyone else in here? Green rarely becomes anyone...

 

[rchainho]

i like her very much. i just like to know who is dressing her? Which designers? Her style is more stephanie than caroline.

 

[ysbel]

I follow the Monegasque RF with only a superficial interest; I love Grace Kelly the actress though

I am the same way. I think that Grace may have been an aberration in modern Monaco history. For a good part of the 20th century, Monaco was best known as a gambling spot and a tax haven for rich socialites who didn't want to pay taxes any more.

Rainier wanted to change that perception when he married Grace and whatever went on in Grace's personal life, her public life was full of dignity and decorum. She also seemed to truly care for her husband and children.

But like I said I think Grace was unusual in the long history of Monaco and people may be wishing for a little of Grace back. Charlene doesn't live up to Grace's image but I don't know of many women who could. Grace came from another simpler time.

So I think that's an impossible wish to want Albert's mate to fill Grace's shoes, the culture of Monaco is what it is and I think the people there have tolerance for things that in the rest of the world would be not quite kosher.

Oddly enough, with competing at the Olympics for the South African team, I think Charlene is the most accomplished of Albert's girlfriends. However, success in sports doesn't always equate to success in education or success in public relations.

 

[hibou]

I am the same way. I think that Grace may have been an aberration in modern Monaco history. For a good part of the 20th century, Monaco was best known as a gambling spot and a tax haven for rich socialites who didn't want to pay taxes any more.

Rainier wanted to change that perception when he married Grace and whatever went on in Grace's personal life, her public life was full of dignity and decorum. She also seemed to truly care for her husband and children.

But like I said I think Grace was unusual in the long history of Monaco and people may be wishing for a little of Grace back. Charlene doesn't live up to Grace's image but I don't know of many women who could. Grace came from another simpler time.

So I think that's an impossible wish to want Albert's mate to fill Grace's shoes, the culture of Monaco is what it is and I think the people there have tolerance for things that in the rest of the world would be not quite kosher.

Oddly enough, with competing at the Olympics for the South African team, I think Charlene is the most accomplished of Albert's girlfriends. However, success in sports doesn't always equate to success in education or success in public relations.

His first swimmer girlfriend Mary Whate(sp) won 4 or 5 gold medals and is one of the most celebrated of American women swimmers. She is in the US swimming hall of fame as well. She went on to become a TV commentator in the sport. Also Alicia Warlick competed in the Olympics as well and then got a degree in economics from Stanford Univ. just two name two.

 

[ysbel]

His first swimmer girlfriend Mary Whate(sp) won 4 or 5 gold medals and is one of the most celebrated of American women swimmers. She is in the US swimming hall of fame as well. She went on to become a TV commentator in the sport. Also Alicia Warlick competed in the Olympics as well and then got a degree in economics from Stanford Univ. just two name two.

Well, I take that back, it looks like Albert does like Olympic athletes. However, both of the women you mentioned were Americans and as I said, the American sports culture puts more stress on athletes getting their degrees whereas I don't think the European or South African culture places that much importance on education for athletes.

It looks like the common theme for Albert though is that he doesn't care if they're educated but he does prefer competitive, athletic women.

That may not be so bad.

 

[WindsorIII]

Well, I take that back, it looks like Albert does like Olympic athletes. However, both of the women you mentioned were Americans and as I said, the American sports culture puts more stress on athletes getting their degrees whereas I don't think the European or South African culture places that much importance on education for athletes.

It looks like the common theme for Albert though is that he doesn't care if they're educated but he does prefer competitive, athletic women.

That may not be so bad.

Ysbel, very true, Prince Albert does swoon over those Olympic athletes, he has also dated the stunning Olympic Gold medalist Pasha for a few years. Pasha Grishuk, Prince Albert and other Pictures This is when Prince Rainier was alive and kept these things quieter, so the razzis couldn't do what they are doing now with CW.

I wonder exactly how many of the Olympians PA has actually dated. Going to the Olympics must be like a reunion of women he's dated. Charlene is the latest in that long list.

It is true that the women that Hibou mentions above and the many other athletes Prince Albert has dated over the years were much more accomplished than Charlene in both sports accomplishments and education. On the flip side, I'm sure he's also dated many others with a low education level like Charlene. At the end of the day its PA's decision.

I posted my POV on the subject, but Ysbel you are correct, if Prince Albert just wants an athlete and doesn't care to have an educated woman at his side for the moment, then Charlene fits the bill. Sometimes I believe PA just wants young, eye candy at his side, hence the Christmas package analogy.

If CW amuses him for the moment, fine, but I would like to see him chose something more when he choses a first lady for Monaco. JMO

Henri you are also correct, when you look at the long line of colorful others dated by the Grimaldi's (ie Circus trainers, etc), CW truely does fits right in.

 

[ysbel]

I posted my POV on the subject, but Ysbel you are correct, if Prince Albert just wants an athlete and doesn't care to have an educated woman at his side for the moment, then Charlene fits the bill. Sometimes I believe PA just wants young, eye candy at his side, hence the Christmas package analogy.

If CW amuses him for the moment, fine, but I would like to see him chose something more when he choses a first lady for Monaco. JMO

Actually, Windsor, my opinion of Albert went up when I learned that he did favor Olympic athletes because they have something the other pretty girls don't have - focus and discipline and they're used to setting ambitious goals and achieving them even if like Charlene they didn't achieve a level of academic excellence. That speaks well for their character. I don't think that Olympic athletes make great consorts though. They're rough around the edges because they're used to having to perform rather than make a pleasing appearance. They're like the worker bees rather than the star. However, a royal consort is a show person and has to be able to put together a pleasing appearance and by that I don't mean a physical appearance but a total presence that projects the best of the royal institution. Athletes have many good characteristics but they don't tend to have this one.

I think though that Albert is not really serious about finding a consort; if he were, he would have found one years ago. In the 80s, Prince Rainier was pushing him to find a nice girl to settle down with and if he hasn't done so by now, I don't think he will. But I don't think Albert wants eye candy either, because if he did, he wouldn't go for the Olympic athletes. There are a lot of beautiful women who don't have the discipline and focus that Olympic athletes have. When a person is that disciplined and focused for most of their lives, they become very sure of themselves and sometimes very stubborn so much so that a man who only wants eye candy may want someone more flexible for his woman than an Olympic athlete.

I see what you say about other girlfriends of Albert being more accomplished than Charlene, and you are right but if you compare these women to the rest of us, all of the Olymipic athletes, including Charlene, are so much more accomplished than the majority of women, that the difference between a Charlene Wittstock and a Mary Whate is like saying that Roman Abramovich is not as rich as Bill Gates. Well of course Abramovich is not as rich as Bill Gates but since they both have billions of dollars, they're both incredibly more wealthy than most of us ever dreamed of being.

Compared to the rest of us, even without an academic education, Charlene has been trained for several years at the highest level for her profession. The people that reach that top level is less than 1/10 of 1% of all the women who compete in sports. All of these Olympic athletes are in a pretty exalted group. Even if Charlene did not get a medal, just getting on the Olympic team is so much higher an accomplishment than most of us could ever dream of that we really can't compare our own modest accomplishments to getting on an Olympic team. To get on a Olympic team requires extensive training that produces athletes that are focused, disciplined, and used to hard work. Some athletes can be more disciplined and hard working than someone with the same level of accomplishment in academics and that focus and discipline doesn't just disappear because an athlete is not training any more.

I certainly couldn't get up every morning at 4am to swim 80 laps and then back in the afternoon to practice relay with my team but these athletes do this four seasons long year after year. When they are at the height of their training, they don't have a social life and they are not thinking of anything other than their sport. Olympic swimming is not a profession for a woman whose greatest goal is to be eye candy on the arms of some rich playboy. Its too much hard work and there are easier ways to find a rich man to pay your way. I also think this type of training produces women of stronger character than is required for women who want someone else to pay their way. So asI said, my opinion of Albert went up a bit when I realized that he was interested in Olympic athletes. I think it speaks well of his character but I still don't think he's in the mood to find a consort.

 

[Henri M.]

Henri you are also correct, when you look at the long line of colorful others dated by the Grimaldi's (ie Circus trainers, etc), CW truely does fits right in.

Not only dating... even marrying or being the fathers of....

 

[WindsorIII]

Ysbel, I do agree that Olympic athletes can be very good examples of great character, but I wouldn't worship them as you do above, remember just as there are many with good character and determination there are just as many examples of steriod use, cheating and that attitude to do anything and everything, even if immoral or unethical just to to win the prize.

I am not saying Charlene is in this category, I just don't generalize a group like that. Its dangerous.

Thus far I have seen nothing that shows Charlene is in serious training other than her proclaimations that she is "training for Beijing, training 8 hours a day, doesn't drink, etc" You say above that a serious athlete has no social life and can think of nothing but training. I agree with you which is why I am skeptical of Charlene's self proclaimed training stories. We all see clearly photos every day of the colorful social life of Charlene's party days in Monaco while proclaiming to be in serious training, and futher is accepting cars and sponorships for that "so called" serious training. IMO it is untruthful. Thus not representative at all of the Olympic standards. In fact it makes a mockery of the others in serious training now. I don't buy the injury thing either watching her party day after day, night after night. No serious athlete would do that.

I understand she had to drop out of school for her Olympic training when she was 16 or 17. I don't agrue that many athletes put their academics and careers on hold for a few years. But now she is nearly 30 years old and still has not even a high school diploma. Are you saying that just because she went to the Olympics nearly a decade ago, she will never have to do anything else to advance herself for the rest of her life?

This is not true of Olympians at all or there attitudes. Go to the Olympic websites and see how most of them, when their olympic careers are over, go on to get educational degrees, get great jobs and transfer that same dedication and ambition to create an equally successful career life. Charlene, not having a job or fulfilling any education for 7 years after her olympic games puts her in the minority of Olympic athletes and their post careers.

IMO Charlene has done nothing with her life since her Olympic swimming days in Sydney. All swimming stats show she's competed in about 5-6 swim events in the past 7 years. This is not serious training. She is not serious about anything.

If, at the moment, she was doing all you describe above then I would have to agree with you, but it is clear by all the photos we've seen that she is not and is just saying she is in training and using the Olympic thing to her advantage because she knows many people worship Olympic athletes as you do, thus you will worship her. Very smart PR I have to say on her part. Look at the people that fall for it, including you.

I will not take away anything from her accomplishment of making the Olympic team back in 2000. I do admire that, regardless of how she performed there.

My issue is now, present day, seven years later.

IMO, she's a former swimmer, who's career ended years ago. Without reason she is still putting off getting any jobs or pursuing an education or facing the real world so she can live off her Olympic thing until she can't anymore. Now she has found a rich prince to latch onto and hopes she never will have to get a job or go back to school.

JMO

 

[WindsorIII]

Not only dating... even marrying or being the fathers of....

Yes Henri I forgot that part. Aye aye aye

originally posted by Ysbel

I think though that Albert is not really serious about finding a consort; if he were, he would have found one years ago. In the 80s, Prince Rainier was pushing him to find a nice girl to settle down with and if he hasn't done so by now, I don't think he will.

Very true, Very true. I agree. PA has no intentions of getting married to CW.

 

[hibou]

Was Charlene's fashion thread deleted? I can't seem to find it and I wanted to find out what she was wearing exactly at the closing ceremonies but this is not the thread to discuss it on. Thanks

 

[ysbel]

Ysbel, I do agree that Olympic athletes can be very good examples of great character, but I wouldn't worship them as you do above, remember just as there are many with good character and determination there are just as many examples of steriod use, cheating and that attitude to do anything and everything, even if immoral or unethical just to to win the prize.
JMO

You are correct windsor and it was not my intention to idolize athletes - just to show a different, more realistic side of them. I also did not want to give the impression that I believe Charlene is still in training. If she were still in serious training, she would not have time for Albert. I only mentioned the training and her past in Olympics because I believe it does requires some sort of character and discipline to achieve something like that even at the lowest level.

You bring up a good point about cheating and steroids but I believe its impossible for someone with no work ethic to cheat or steroid his way into an Olympic team with absolutely no effort or discipline. What I believe is that the character of a person just doesn't disappear when they stop competing in sports. So in other words the character traits that Charlene possessed to help her reach the Olympics I think should be still with her now.

As far as Charlene's life today, I think you bring up many good points. There are volumes written on what happens to athletes once they're out of sports. Some do really well, the others do not. Many athletes come from a structured environment where they are told what to do at each hour of the day then when their career is over the lack of structure can be overwhelming. I think Albert's life is rather regulated despite his playboy lifestyle so Charlene may perhaps like the structure and organization of Albert's lifestyle as a sovereign rather than the glamour of marrying a prince.

My only concern for someone like Charlene marrying Albert would be if she like Camilla was really bored with the public appearances, etc. but Camilla seems to have sucked it up and done what it takes to keep her man and Camilla has done it very well so if Charlene loved Albert it is possible she would do the same.

The other concern I have is her ability to have children. Although you are quite correct not to paint Charlene as a steroid user because we cannot know the facts, its a fact that steroid use is prevalent among swimmers and steroid use has shown to have a detrimental effect on a woman's ability to bear children.

 

[Tosca]

My impression of Charlene is that she is a rather unremarkable person. That is why it puzzles me that so many people claim so violently to hate her. Okay, she isn't the most elegant of women, but neither are many born royals.

Because an average woman like Charlene is (she isn't that much educated, she's not fantastically beautiful, her awkwardness is evident ), upsets the "audience"; it's just like Paris Hilton, who's famous, without doing anything: she's no actress, singer, model...

Charlene is just a plain woman appearing by Prince Albert's side, which certain people can't stand at all: "Why she? What does she have, I do not have?" (generally speaking, of course. it makes no difference to me )

 

[ysbel]

This is not true of Olympians at all or there attitudes. Go to the Olympic websites and see how most of them, when their olympic careers are over, go on to get educational degrees, get great jobs and transfer that same dedication and ambition to create an equally successful career life. Charlene, not having a job or fulfilling any education for 7 years after her olympic games puts her in the minority of Olympic athletes and their post careers.

Are you talking about American athletes or non-American athletes windsor?

 

[lisamaria]

it's just like Paris Hilton, who's famous, without doing anything: she's no actress, singer, model...

Actually, I think Paris Hilton has tried all of those; she is neither remarkably bad nor remarkably good at them

Charlene is just a plain woman appearing by Prince Albert's side, which certain people can't stand at all: "Why she? What does she have, I do not have?" (generally speaking, of course. it makes no difference to me )

Which sort of was my point. The ordinary girls seem always have it the hardest when it comes to dating famous men - guess it is only natural. Nobody hates the models in Vogue because they are beautiful. Many hate the girls next door for being pretty. Nobody envies Bill Gates for his money. Many would hate to see their neighbour to win in lottery.

But here is a question: has Prince Albert earned a more remarkable woman? Could he ever get one? With his track record, he just might be the one settling.

 

[Lillia]

Actually, I think Paris Hilton has tried all of those; she is neither remarkably bad nor remarkably good at them



Which sort of was my point. The ordinary girls seem always have it the hardest when it comes to dating famous men - guess it is only natural. Nobody hates the models in Vogue because they are beautiful. Many hate the girls next door for being pretty. Nobody envies Bill Gates for his money. Many would hate to see their neighbour to win in lottery.

But here is a question: has Prince Albert earned a more remarkable woman? Could he ever get one? With his track record, he just might be the one settling.

I think that is a very good point because it goes to the idea that people like to believe that PA is different somehow than regular people. In the end, he is not.

CW and PA probably each deserve just as they've gotten in one another and nothing is wrong with that at all. It's just like what most people do when they date someone.

If CW could be attracted to men who cannot commit, she probably got the exact right person in PA because I do not think he is the committing type. PA may like 'eye candy' blonde with no demands - he may have gotten someone good for him too. (JMO).

One might hope for more because of the oft told 'fairytale' that is associated with the "normal girl next door meets rich prince and becomes a princess' story.

I admit that the 'normal girl next door meets rich prince and moves halfway around the world to start shacking up with him even though he says he'll never marry her" bit is not the story line most people are used to - this variation it's a little hard to swallow sometimes.

But it's not anyone else life but theirs and imo people (like me, I admit) need to just get over all of it We do not live in a story book.

 

[ysbel]

I admit that the 'normal girl next door meets rich prince and moves halfway around the world to start shacking up with him even though he says he'll never marry her" bit is not the story line most people are used to - this variation it's a little hard to swallow sometimes.

Ladies I admit it is a very unusual (to me) view of what is normal and ordinary if you think that someone who has been selected for an Olympic team is in any way normal or ordinary no matter what their faults be otherwise. Charlene may be plain looking, awkward, uneducated, but I wouldn't in a million years call her ordinary.

I don't know about anyone else here but I don't know many Olympic caliber athletes (OK I admit I don't know ANY Olympic caliber athletes) Surely if these athletes were so ordinary and undescript, there would be more of them around and we'd be bumping into them all the time in the streets.

 

[hibou]

Ladies I admit it is a very unusual (to me) view of what is normal and ordinary if you think that someone who has been selected for an Olympic team is in any way normal or ordinary no matter what their faults be otherwise. Charlene may be plain looking, awkward, uneducated, but I wouldn't in a million years call her ordinary.

I don't know about anyone else here but I don't know many Olympic caliber athletes (OK I admit I don't know ANY Olympic caliber athletes) Surely if these athletes were so ordinary and undescript, there would be more of them around and we'd be bumping into them all the time in the streets.

Actually, I have had the pleasure of meeting quite a few Olympic athletes in different sports. They are no different than other successful people in other walks of life. What they share in common is a passion for what they do, and a determination to excell at it. Bill Gates is no Olympic athlete but he was passionate about computers and now world health. In that regard he shares common characteristics with them. No I haven't met Bill Gates - I was just using him as an example. There are many around us who are not household names but share these qualities and we might consider them ordinary but to those who know them they are not. I would prefer to use another word than ordinary to describe Charlene although I understand what was ment by it. Outside her sport one could say she was ordinary as she has not used her gifts of passion and determination to excell in other areas of her life in that regard she is ordinary.

 

[ysbel]

Ah thanks for explaining hibou. You make a lot of sense. Someone who is quite extraordinary in one area can be quite ordinary in another. I imagine while none of us can excel at everything, everyone of us has something that is quite ordinary about us.

 

[Jaya]

To be an Olympian

To be an Olympian as explained by a famous Greek poet is to feel and act in a certain manner.An Olympian cherishes the Olympic deal first and foremost and is a phihellene . I do notknow if CW has come to these things as yet. By her actions I think not. I do not think she has read the ancients.& thatis disregard for the Olympics.The Olympics area spiritual experience as well as a physical one . But the spirituality is what they begin with- the lighting of the torch-and invocations to the celestial.
One does not have to win the medal to attain the status but keep, live & preserve the ideal going on in their lives forever.

 

[hibou]

To be an Olympian as explained by a famous Greek poet is to feel and act in a certain manner.An Olympian cherishes the Olympic deal first and foremost and is a phihellene . I do notknow if CW has come to these things as yet. By her actions I think not. I do not think she has read the ancients.& thatis disregard for the Olympics.The Olympics area spiritual experience as well as a physical one . But the spirituality is what they begin with- the lighting of the torch-and invocations to the celestial.
One does not have to win the medal to attain the status but keep, live & preserve the ideal going on in their lives forever.

Carrying the conversation further from the above posts as well, one could say that Bill Gates has an Olympian spirit thus making him extraordinary. One could also say that Princess Grace had an Olympian spirit as she drew upon her gifts in the same manner making her extraordinary as well.

 

[paca]

Carrying the conversation further from the above posts as well, one could say that Bill Gates has an Olympian spirit thus making him extraordinary. One could also say that Princess Grace had an Olympian spirit as she drew upon her gifts in the same manner making her extraordinary as well.

When you bring Grace in, you have to remember that she was raised by one (who won several medals) and the brother of one. In my own experience I can say that there is a certain family mentality involved. Especially in those days of Grace Kelly's father people were a lot stricter and very disciplined. Even if you are not that interested in sports yourself, your being brought up to always give your best in whatever you do, to act as an example to others, to play fair and to show compassion for others who are less fortunete.

What I have noticed though is that in order to be successful in certain sports, there is a certain mentality intrinsic to each sport. I come from an athletics background, where there was a lot of emphasis on education. School was always put first, then came the sport. As my mother was also a coach, she would apply the same rule to those she coached and stop over- ambitious parents from pushing their children too much in athletics and have them grow up unbalanced by having the main focus on sport. A lot of athletes I grew up with (famous German ones too) became doctors, sports journalists ( not just commentators, but actually after finishing a university degree) etc. If you did athletics, it was required to lead a balanced life. Many of my athletic friends excelled also in music and arts. In contrast you had the soccer players. I have to add that there is a very strong dislike between soccer players and athletics athletes, probably due to the fact that they are using the same facilities but clubs are more likely to invest in a new lawn then a new track. but there is also a difference in background. soccer was one of the first sports in Germany (and other European countries) which would earn you enough money to fully concentrate on your sport and not on work. I believe that concerned the generation from the mid sixties onwards. Before also soccer players had a proper job to put food on the table. MOst soccer players though came (in contrast to the origins of their sport) from working class backgrounds. The popularity of the sport being due to it's availability, the lack of other things to do and the possibility to play it anywhere with anything you can kick. It is no miracle that the most successful and most admired team in the world recruits it's player from the favellas. Name me one famous soccer player that came from a privileged background nowadays. It is the sport of the poor and admired mostly by the poor. It gives them an opportunity to dream, but also as players to change the course of their life and that of their families. In contrast you have the formula one which seems to be the sport of mainly rich sons, when you look at Senna or Berger. The exception being Schumacher who came from a fairly modest background, but whose success might be due to the working class attitude he brought to his sport. He is also considered an excellent soccerplayer. With judokas I noticed that you need a certain aggressiveness, so when at the games a discontented team started throwing bottles, the concerned athlete only shrugged shoulders, whereas those not at home in the sport, felt insulted and outraged at such a behaviour. In wintersports I have noticed that skiers seem to be more like those who practice athletics, always ready to lend a hand to those who are in need of help, wheras snowboarders are more like soccerplayers with a more careless attitude (running over people, lining up in front of others etc). The swimmers I have met are mostly evolving around themselves and those in their world. they are not particularly interested in other sports or people who do practice other sports. You either swim or you don't. I have also noticed that they are not particularly gifted in learning other sports, because their movements are so different and there are other muscels involved as in swimming (hence their unique build). I recently saw a documentary about the university admissions test of a German university. There were several thousand applicants from all over the world who wanted to pass the test in order to study sports at university. It is supposed to be the toughest test in Europe due to the number of different sports that you need to practice in one day. I actually had to laugh because the requirements in athletics were pretty much what a 12 year old girl would achieve during a regular training session. Even my mother would pass this test. The professors said that mainly they where judging whether the students understood the movement so they could work on it. In athletics and swimming they were actually measuring, but in all other sports it was not about winning but about whether or not they had control over their body and if they were told to change a certain movement whether they could quickly apply what they have been told. Those who came from swimming, were those with most problems. In athletics we were actually told not to do too much swimming (fun swimming yes fro relaxing the muscles, but not really training), because it would slow you down and you would lose your sprinting capacity.

As an answer to other posts about education and sports, I believe that it is a good thing that in countries like Germany sports is mostly seperated from education. You are supposed to get a place at university because of your intelligence and your mental capacities, not because the university team needs a good 800m runner or a quarterback. Combining sports with a place at university corrupts education, because there is money to be made in sports and if a quarterback would get thrown out of university because he is a morron, the officials can put pressure on the professor to give him a pass even though intellectually he does not deserve it. In an ideal world that wouldn't happen, but in the real world it does all the time and that is why I personally would always take the degree of an American athlete with a grain of salt, until I have personally met the person. I am sure that the system was installed with good intentions in order to get children from underpriviledged backgrounds, who otherwise would not benefit from a higher education, the chance to a better education and thus a better life, but I am not certain whether it really works that well and if it wouldn't have been better to either reserve a number of places to those groups and encourage students to study hard to obtain a scholarship. Your time in sports is always limited and there is always the chance of an unfortunete injury. And what happens then? And I guess that when Charlene started dating Albert, she was facing exactly that question (as she was recovering from an injury and having to face the fact tha her sport was being taken over by teenagers). ANd by dating him, she found her answer.

Sorry for all this detour moderators.

 

[hibou]

Hi Paca, Your points about the importance of education and sports are well taken, I wouldn't generalise about all US educational institutions. Harvard for example certainly doesn't allow idiots to attend just because they are good at rugby or rowing. I do understand that some Univ. in the US have done this in the past but are now in the process of correcting that mistake. Now days many who do not wish the education, and excell in their sport are recuited by the "Pro" teams. When their athletic careers are over they often regret not having obtained the degree. It does depend on the individual family. I was always required by my parents to maintain a Dean's list status or my sport would have to go.

Charlene made her choice early and her parents obviously supported her decision. Sadly she appears not to have parlayed that passion and the Olympic spirit into other areas of her life. Now that I am older and a Mother I wholely support your argument for the division of educational values and sports when it it taken to the extreme.

 

[paca]

I think if your family does encourage your sport more then your education (which IMO is the one thing that parents can give their children that cannot be taken away from them), especially at a very young age then your parents have a different agenda then the childs well being. In my course of life I have met with many parents who keep pushing their children in all sorts of areas. But ultimately those parents did not consider their childs wishes but were persuing sth that they did not have themselves. I believe with Charlenes parents it might be their own abition for recognition. Wasn't her mother a gymnast and her father coaching Charlene for some time? I think that some of her problems with regards to behaviour also have to do with her leaving home very young and a home especially that did not see it as important to look into a good education and good manners, although those are IMO most telling about where you are coming from and the points that could be most hindering for a child as it becomes an adult. Though I could understand a family pushing a child with the lack of intellectual skills but a sportive talent to excel in that area, I still think that basic manners and behaviour skills should be taught to even the least intellectual child. But then again as I said before manners are the most telling about where you are comming from and who raised you. You can learn a lot later, but people will always be able to tell whether it is natural or studied to cover your roots.

 

[hibou]

I think if your family does encourage your sport more then your education (which IMO is the one thing that parents can give their children that cannot be taken away from them), especially at a very young age then your parents have a different agenda then the childs well being. In my course of life I have met with many parents who keep pushing their children in all sorts of areas. But ultimately those parents did not consider their childs wishes but were persuing sth that they did not have themselves. I believe with Charlenes parents it might be their own abition for recognition. Wasn't her mother a gymnast and her father coaching Charlene for some time? I think that some of her problems with regards to behaviour also have to do with her leaving home very young and a home especially that did not see it as important to look into a good education and good manners, although those are IMO most telling about where you are coming from and the points that could be most hindering for a child as it becomes an adult. Though I could understand a family pushing a child with the lack of intellectual skills but a sportive talent to excel in that area, I still think that basic manners and behaviour skills should be taught to even the least intellectual child. But then again as I said before manners are the most telling about where you are comming from and who raised you. You can learn a lot later, but people will always be able to tell whether it is natural or studied to cover your roots.

I have seen the very thing that you speak of. I call it child as appendage of parent's ego and then there is competitive parenting with each pushing the child to outdo the other. The child fails to grow into a mature well rounded individual and for those who obtain a moment's glory but have no "plan B" when it is over often end up very troubled individuals, and yes I agree, manners do begin at home! great posts paca.