Tsar's Murder: Court Cases


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Anna was Franziska said:
I agree. They want the guilty named and blamed, dead or not. Just saying those responsible are dead now doesn't end it. They need to say exactly whose fault it was and name them- even up to Lenin himself.
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If they want the guilty named and blamed, then what do they mean by the following statement?

"The informal side of the matter interests the Romanovs Family more than legal subtleties."
 
Personal vindication maybe? JK you are REAAAALLLY grasping and straws trying to find something that is not there. Back in July, the Romanov Family Association issued a statement declaring they fully accepted the DNA results and findings of the scientists and officials. I saved the link but unfortunately it's expired.
Interfax: General and business news from Russia, CIS, Central Europe and China

But I had saved its text and this is what it said:

Romanov Family does not doubt Yekaterinburg remains are royal

ST.PETERSBURG. July 16 (Interfax-) - The Romanov Family has never
doubted that the remains found near Yekaterinburg a year ago were those
of Crown Prince Alexei and Grand Princess Maria Nikolayevna, but deem it
very important that this has been proved now based on DNA tests.
"It is very important that these results are now official and that
it is 100% so. Now let those who have misgivings, say why. A larger part
of my family, nearly all members, have been hoping all this time that it
will be so. It was clear for us it was so," Prince Dmitry Romanov, Tsar
Nicholas I's great, great grandson, said on Ekho Moskvy in St.
Petersburg on Wednesday.

Read the entire article here.
 
Anna was Franziska said:
Personal vindication maybe? JK you are REAAAALLLY grasping and straws trying to find something that is not there. Back in July, the Romanov Family Association issued a statement declaring they fully accepted the DNA results and findings of the scientists and officials. I saved the link but unfortunately it's expired.
Interfax: General and business news from Russia, CIS, Central Europe and China
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That still doesn't answer my question.

What do they mean...exactly... when they now say: "The informal side of the matter interests the Romanovs Family more than legal subtleties."

The question of who may be guilty in any crime is certainly a legal matter, so what are they actually talking about when they now say: "The informal side of the matter interests the Romanov Family more..."?
 
Obviously, it doesn't have anything to do with the DNA or idenification of the remains, because as I have already posted, the family fully accepts the results. So if that is what you are insinuating, you're barking up the wrong tree.
 
Anna was Franziska said:
Obviously, it doesn't have anything to do with the DNA or idenification of the remains, because as I have already posted, the family fully accepts the results. So if that is what you are insinuating, you're barking up the wrong tree.
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I'm not insinuating anything at all.

I'm only asking the very simple question, what do they mean by the words "...the informal side of the matter..." when they now say "The informal side of the matter interests the Romanov Family more..."?
 
I guess you're just going to have to write and ask them. Our speculating does no good.
 
Ex-Princess Lisa said:
The Romanov Family Association have said the case of the Russian Imperial murders still is not over.

The House of Romanov have said they are waiting for the opinion of the Russian Orthodox Church before they give their response.
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Neither the Romanov Family Association nor the Church has juridiction over the criminal investigation. If the Russian Authorities said the investigation has been closed, then the case is over; no matter what other people/organizations may say.

In part this decision is justifiable as none of the criminals and/or conspirators may be alive by now. On the other hand it would be interesting to have a formal declaration of the Russian government stating the names of all the murderers/conspirators (I know Lenin was one of them).
 
J Kendrick said:
I'm not insinuating anything at all.

I'm only asking the very simple question, what do they mean by the words "...the informal side of the matter..." when they now say "The informal side of the matter interests the Romanov Family more..."?
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Insinuating, no, but certainly attempting to create doubt where there is none.
The very simple answer can be found in the Nicholas and Alexandra thread in a post made on 16 January (2009).
quote from Interfax:
"On January 15, 2009, the Investigative Committee's Main Investigations Department shut down an investigation under a criminal case dealing with the circumstances of the death and burial of Russian Emperor Nicholas II, members of his family and people from his retinue."

To spell it out: there is no further legal avenue available to investigate criminal responsibility in the deaths and reburials of the Imperial Family.
Formal attempts to get a criminal investigation to identify the culprits have now been closed off by an agency of the State.

However, that does not rule out "informal" attempts - whatever they may be - to assign responsibility for the murders. I assume Lenin is the prime target and it will now be left to historians to uncover the truth.

As is quite obvious, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the identification of the remains or "New Information on Two Pits".

[posts addressing this red herring have now been moved from the "New Information on Two Pits" thread to the N&A thread]
 
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Royal Fan said:
When are they supposed to be Buried anyone have any idea?
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There is yet another conference planned to discuss the results of the investigation even further in March. There is no word yet on what issues might be discussed during the conference... or if the question of burial will even be on the agenda.

Whatever the case may be, the comments made by the Romanov Family Association on January 15th have made it readily apparent that we have yet to see the end of "New Information on Two Pits".
 
J Kendrick said:
There is yet another conference planned to discuss the results of the investigation even further in March. There is no word yet on what issues might be discussed during the conference... or if the question of burial will even be on the agenda.
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I've never heard anything about that, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Whatever the case may be, the comments made by the Romanov Family Association on January 15th have made it readily apparent that we have yet to see the end of "New Information on Two Pits".
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Apparently you missed this post once it was moved to the "N and A" thread. Here is the explaination:

Warren said:
Insinuating, no, but certainly attempting to create doubt where there is none.
The very simple answer can be found in the Nicholas and Alexandra thread in a post made on 16 January (2009).
quote from Interfax:
"On January 15, 2009, the Investigative Committee's Main Investigations Department shut down an investigation under a criminal case dealing with the circumstances of the death and burial of Russian Emperor Nicholas II, members of his family and people from his retinue."

To spell it out: there is no further legal avenue available to investigate criminal responsibility in the deaths and reburials of the Imperial Family.
Formal attempts to get a criminal investigation to identify the culprits have now been closed off by an agency of the State.

However, that does not rule out "informal" attempts - whatever they may be - to assign responsibility for the murders. I assume Lenin is the prime target and it will now be left to historians to uncover the truth.

As is quite obvious, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the identification of the remains or "New Information on Two Pits".

[posts addressing this red herring have now been moved from the "New Information on Two Pits" thread to the N&A thread]
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Interfax-Religion
Interfax
15 Jan 2009:

>>15 January 2009, 15:51
...[in part]...

"Great Duchess Maria Vladimirovna believes that she must be sent a ruling on the termination of the criminal case so that she can read it and make a judgment on whether the investigation was fair, and what conclusions the inquest has made as a result of carrying out forensic tests," House of Romanov lawyer German Lukyanov told Interfax on Thursday.
.....<<

This is what was voiced.

You draw your own conclusion.

AGRBear
 
No Bear that is not what is being discussed, it was Prince Dmitri Romanov and the Romanov Family association's comment. I went back trying to look for the link but apparently it must have been lost or moved when the thread was 'cleaned up.' I'll try to find it.

edit: I found it, courtesy of Anastasia Evidence's OTMA forum!

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=5588

History hasn't closed book on royal murder yet - Romanovs Family Association

St. Petersburg, January 15, Interfax - The line drawn under the criminal investigation into the death and burial of members of the Russian royal family is of no crucial significance for history, the Romanovs Family Association said.

"Our branch of the family is not reacting in any way to the end in the criminal investigation. For us it is not an event of crucial significance. The historical chapter connected with the regicide has not yet been closed," Romanovs Family Association spokesman Ivan Artsishevsky told Interfax on Thursday.

The informal side of the matter interests the Romanovs Family more than legal subtleties, he said. "History itself will clear up all the cases and clarify the circumstances of the royal family's death," he added.
The federal prosecutor's Investigation Committee has finished the criminal investigation into the death and burial of members of the Russian royal family, earlier reports said.

Remains identified as those of Crown Prince Alexey Nikolayevich Romanov and his sister, Grand Princess Maria Nikolayevna Romanova, were discovered near Yekaterinburg in July 2007, the Investigation Committee said.

(The bolded part is what JK brought up and what was responded to by Warren)
 
This was the point of the RFA's statement: "Our branch of the family is not reacting in any way to the end in the criminal investigation. For us it is not an event of crucial significance. The historical chapter connected with the regicide has not yet been closed."

My current point is that there is now yet another conference planned for March, which means the RFA's statement was right: "The historical chapter.... has not yet been closed."

... and with regard to Bear's comment...

The statement by Marie Vladimirovna's lawyer German Lukyanov also makes it clear: "As far as the authenticity of the Tsar's remains found in the Urals in 1991 and 2007, the House of Romanov will rely on the position of the Russian Orthodox Church."

The Church has yet to state its position regarding this question.

... and therefore -- as it has now been made clear by both sides of the Romanov Family -- we still have not heard the end of "New Information on Two Pits".

... at least until March... :)
 
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Interfax-Religion
Interfax
15 Jan 2009:
...[in part]...
>>15 January 2009, 15:51
House of Romanovs asks for copy of ruling on tsar murder case termination

Moscow, January 15, Interfax - Head of the House of Romanovs Great Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is awaiting an official document from the Russian Prosecutor's Office Investigative Committee concerning the completion of the criminal investigation into the execution and burial of the Nicholas II family.

"Great Duchess Maria Vladimirovna believes that she must be sent a ruling on the termination of the criminal case so that she can read it and make a judgment on whether the investigation was fair, and what conclusions the inquest has made as a result of carrying out forensic tests," House of Romanov lawyer German Lukyanov told Interfax on Thursday.

.... <<

AGRBear
 
Can we not all wait for the final reports to be published in this matter and then we can discuss to our hearts content. at present it just seems that we are going in circles with this subject and getting nowhere.
 
House of Romanov files pleas for rehabilitation of members of Russian royal family
27 March 2009

Moscow - The House of Romanovs on Friday filed pleas with the Russian Prosecutor General's Office requesting the rehabilitation of members of the royal family who were executed after the revolution.

"Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna believes that all the members of the royal family named in the plea had fallen victim to the arbitrariness of the totalitarian state and were exposed to political reprisals on social, class and religious grounds," German Lukyanov, a lawyer of the House of Romanovs, told Interfax.

[...]

Lukyanov said she insists on the rehabilitation of Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich who was shot in Perm on June 13, 1918, and also Grand Duchess Yelizaveta Fyodorovna, Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich, Prince Ioann Konstantinovich, Prince Konstantin Konstantinovich and Prince Igor Konstantinovich who were thrown into a mine in Alapayevsk on July 18, 1918.

Full article: Interfax-Religion
 
Further Rehabilitations
On 8 June 2009, following an appeal filed by the representatives of Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, the Office of the Prosecutor General in Russia rehabilitated 7 Romanovs and several other people who "fell victim to Bolshevik repressive rule." Among those rehabilitated were Grand Duchess Elisabeth Feodorovna, Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich, and Prince Ioann Konstantinovich.
Interfax-Religion

Yesterday, German Lukyanov, the lawyer for the Head of the Russian Imperial House, stated that the rehabilitation of 52 persons who suffered from persecution under the Bolsheviks is currently being sought.
Original article
Babelfish translation
 
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Russia rejects bid to reopen criminal case into last tsar's murder
20 October 2009

MOSCOW - The Russian Prosecutor's Office has rejected an application by the head of the Russian Imperial House to reopen a criminal case into the murder of the country's last tsar, a lawyer said on Tuesday.

German Lukyanov said Grand Duchess Maria Romanov would appeal.

Full article: RIA Novosti
 
Romanovs Demand Russia Probe Last Tsar's Murder
15 Jan 2010

The self-proclaimed heir to Russia's imperial throne asked prosecutors on Friday to re-open an investigation into the murder of Tsar Nicholas II and his family, who were shot dead by the Bolsheviks in 1918.

The Russian Prosecutor-General's main investigative unit said it had formally closed a criminal investigation into the killing of Nicholas II because too much time had elapsed since the crime and because those responsible had died.

New York Times
________________________________________________
 
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kell said:
Investigation into murder of Tsar’s family to reopen? - RT Top Stories hmm intersting the inveastgotr is a no show
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Interesting...I wonder if Maria Valdimirovna will be able to get this investigation in the Tsar's murder reopended? I think that the Russian surpreme court will not allow this case to be reopended. I doubt it if they will change their official belief -that family was murdered by the decision of state, not by criminals. I do consider the people who murdered the Tsar and his family as criminals. I hope Maria Valdirmirovna will be sucessful in trying to convince the Russian Surpreme court that the Romanovs were murdered by criminals.
 
Kell

Hello! Good to see you posting again. The linked broadcast notes are very interesting, but I am just a little caustic about some of the editorial comments considering the sources are Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty. Cheers!
 
i only post when i got something to say and only then
true thane but u gotta rememebr one thing even if radio free europe jumps on the band wagon its still interesting and worth mentioning because they give another point of veiw even if alil one sided
 
Court rejects reopening of Tsar's murder investigation

Interfax-Religion well since noona had a update i may as well also Russian court rejects reopening tsar murder probe - Europe - World - Dalje.com

MOSCOW, March 19, 2010 (AFP)
Russian court rejects reopening of Tsar murder probe

Heirs of the murdered tsar pressed for a criminal probe saying it was necessary to come to terms with the brutal past.

A Russian court on Friday rejected a demand to reopen a probe into the execution of tsar Nicholas II and his family, lawyers for his descendants said, slamming the decision as legal anarchy."The court refused to recognise as illegal the decision to close the investigation," more than a year ago, Guerman Lukianov told the Interfax news agency.
 
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From a legal standpoint, it would probably be very difficult to re-open a probe but hasn't it already been found that the royal family was killed by the state? Is the claimant to the Romanov throne contending that some of the family survived? Or that their bodies have not been recovered?
 
All of the remains have been recovered and indentified. I really can't imagine why Russia would want to re open this case, a pretty sticky situation.
 
Why exactly should the Russian government re-open the case? The Russian government acknowledged that the execution was wrong. However, it would be fair to assume that the Russian government would abstain from excessive bashing of the previous government.
 
because she wants the throne and more public line life for the case the better for her my guess
 
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