The Monarchy after Elizabeth II


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Republicanism in the UK rarely exceeds 20% even when the monarchy was in crisis (which it certainly isnt now). Even during the War of The Wales the monarchy was still more popular than any politician could dream of.
 
If it's 75 year old Charles with a 20% popularity rating, that's another.

As usual Scooter i appreciate your deep and objective enthusiasm for Charles and Camilla ...:whistling:
 
Kensington Palace is an enormous complex, it's not just one big building. It's hard to imagine that it could be used as an embassy. Here is an aerial photo of it:

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/nov2011/8/9/kensington-palace-pic-pa-794120197.jpg


What I think it all comes down to is that the USA just wanted a more impressive embassy!

(The one in Grosvenor Square is really ugly; it's a big glass/concrete box! What were they thinking? The flags don't even hang straight! No wonder the US government wants another site).
 
I thought the Embassy was moving to Wandsworth.
 
Or possibly there were rumors of the RF selling it

The RF cannot sell Kensington Palace. They do not own it. It belongs to the state.
 
Since when did the USA become a third world country? :lol:
And as for the existence of the monarchy after Elizabeth, that's debatable. There are 'worries'. If the monarchy wants to survive, they might want to do some adapting.

Oh,read papers and watch the news...it has written third world all over...:whistling::lol:


There must have been worries,and there were,after Queen Victoria,and Edward turned out to be just what the country needed at the time,he did fine...on all accounts...;)

Adapting!?Seems to be a key-word in this hyped up day and age,and usually those who pop-up with it have no clue what they talk about...a very common state of affairs as we all know..I think....But ok,premogeniture will be a starter,nothing wrong with that except fuss and people moving air instead of uttering sense needed.But apart from that,no more adapting,they already have their Apple pc's,what else could one possibly do to save a Monarchy...:lol:...

Nah,everybody blurts whatever,it comes with the bloody senseless hypes these days,the Monarchy isn't about that,and will not give in to that nonsense either,not ever.And Charles will be absolutely fantastic once Monarch,as will his Queen.No doubts at all....except by those who stay around in the pubs too long and haven't got a clue to begin with after two pints....:D:D:D:whistling:
 
Oh,read papers and watch the news...it has written third world all over...:whistling::lol:

Ha, papers. That's a reliable source of information, obviously. :whistling:


There must have been worries,and there were,after Queen Victoria,and Edward turned out to be just what the country needed at the time,he did fine...on all accounts...;)

Not sure what that has got to do with this monarchy now? Victoria and Edward are long dead and have no chance of reigning the coming years? :lol:

Adapting!?Seems to be a key-word in this hyped up day and age,and usually those who pop-up with it have no clue what they talk about...a very common state of affairs as we all know..I think....But ok,premogeniture will be a starter,nothing wrong with that except fuss and people moving air instead of uttering sense needed.But apart from that,no more adapting,they already have their Apple pc's,what else could one possibly do to save a Monarchy...:lol:...

Nah,everybody blurts whatever,it comes with the bloody senseless hypes these days,the Monarchy isn't about that,and will not give in to that nonsense either,not ever.And Charles will be absolutely fantastic once Monarch,as will his Queen.No doubts at all....except by those who stay around in the pubs too long and haven't got a clue to begin with after two pints....:D:D:D:whistling:

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about really. You seem to believe that all monarchy's will have the ability to last forever, which they won't. The past proves that. It could be months, weeks, years, decades but the monarchy's of the world will end up disappearing because there is will be no need for figureheads wearing fancy jewellery. This "day and age" in a saying often used by the older generation who tend to have a confused view on modern day goings on. It goes with the saying "In my day". This is my opinion, and you have a different one.

I also have no doubt that Charles and Camilla will do a fine job of serving their country as monarchs. But just because they will do a fine job doesn't mean it saves the monarchy from failure.

A side note: in this post you accuse me of having no clue what i'm talking about and that i've been around pubs too long and don't know where to begin after two pints. This is to me very rude and uncalled for, if I didn't know what I was talking about I would't make a post. Also, seeing as we're talking about our own opinions, I think I know what i'm thinking quite well.
 
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Not sure what that has got to do with this monarchy now? Victoria and Edward are long dead and have no chance of reigning the coming years? :lol:
He was probably thinking along the lines of Santayana's "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". But with your searing wit it full flight, it soared right over your head! :cool:
 
Canadians became more enamoured with the monarchy in 2012 | Canada Politics - Yahoo! News Canada
According to a new Forum Research poll conducted on behalf of the National Post, only 36 per cent of Canadians are in favour of cutting ties with Buckingham Palace upon the death of Queen Elizabeth. That number is down 7 points from January
What's also interesting in the Forum poll is what's happening in traditionally anti-Royal Quebec — in January, 67 per cent of Quebecers were in favour of cutting ties; today that number sits at just 58 per cent.
Queen Elizabeth is extremely popular in Canada, the last poll has her popularity around 90 percent. Diana was also very popular in Canada and Charles' marriage to Camilla was seen as a blow to monarchists but the latest numbers show there isn't any real danger to the monarchy and even in Quebec, support for Charles and Camilla is on the way up.
All in all, very positive numbers for the future of the Maple Throne in Canada.

I should add in English Canada, support for retaining the monarchy after Queen Elizabeth is around 77 percent.
 
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This has been discussed in the General News for Prince Harry thread, but I think my post fitts best here.
Seems to me the Prince is as congentially unable to 'keep his trap shut' as his Mother was, and as it did with her, this will bring a good deal of trouble, both to himself and to 'the firm'..
In many ways I admire him greatly, but in this I do NOT..
Harry was a couple of weeks from turning 13. He wasn't a little boy.

Harry needs to stick to talking about Invictus instead of speaking for his entire family. He is undermining his father and brother who unlike Harry will be King.

I think the time has come for Harry to stop talking and get on with some regular work.

At best this is naive but for someone who has spent most of his adult life complaining about how the media 'twist' his words this could be considered stupid.

He seems to have forgotten his responsibility to the monarchy.
I fully agree with this posts.

1. Harry needs to stop doing these interviews of his.

2. The Press is now starting to take their gloves of when it comes to Harry, and that's about time (ecpesaly after treating William and Kate like crap for 3-4 years now.)

3. Many people I know (who have not read the interview) now believe that Charles and William don't want to become monarchs.

4. Several of the so-called experts/commentators believe that Harry is weakening the monarchy and that the institution will face major problems when the Queen dies.

5. And people such as Graham Smith of Republic and other people (many of them monarchist) are now complaining about royals that are reluctant to do the work, but happy to take the perks and privileges that come with the role.

6. And people like former royal butler Grant Harrold is on the television talking about it.

7. And some of the genius royal reporters (yes I'm being ironic) are on twitter with their opinions - this is just some of them:

Richard Palmer @RoyalReporter
Such a contrast between a Queen who has put service of her nation before everything and her grandsons who want a different balance.

Richard Palmer‏ @RoyalReporter
I'm not sure Harry was thinking about his father with his remarks but if Charles does become King, it's clear he wants Camilla to be Queen.

Rhiannon Mills‏ @SkyRhiannon
A quote #PrinceHarry may be regretting. What I think he means is younger royals would prefer different balance between duties/normal life

Dickie Arbiter‏ @RoyalDickie
You've got it spot on Rhiannon - this is a clear case of mouth working quicker than the brain

Charlie Proctor‏ @MonarchyUK
Monarchy will struggle after The Queen dies. It will go on, albeit with less support and following.
 
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I could have posted this in my (already long) above post about Harry's interview, but I think this deserves its own post.

I read this very interesting article a few months ago and it was updated in may. GQ speak to historians Greg Jenner, Dan Snow, and Kate Williams.

Will the monarchy survive the death of the Queen? | British GQ

From QG:
ou only have to spend a moment in the company of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II to realise how entrenched the symbolism of the royal family is upon our daily lives. Our monarch is no mere celebrity or star, she is the embodiment of our national identity, the woman after whom our second Elizabethan age will be known to history. Our national life is the Queen’s life: she addresses us on Christmas Day, appears on the face of postage stamps, and we carry her image with us from infancy to death on every coin and every note in our pockets. To come face to face with the Queen is to encounter the near-mythical bedrock of our national identity. It is almost inconceivable that this could ever change, but old certainties do not deserve to last simply by virtue of their vintage, and the modern world can be unkind to settled truths.

What Greg Jenner said - and I Agree with everything:
Is the monarchy compatible with modern Britain?

The modern monarchy seems to be in robust health. Public historian Greg Jenner cites the work not just of the Queen, but also younger royals. He says, “public admiration for Queen Elizabeth is a massive factor in current support for the monarchy. She's truly remarkable. Importantly, Princes William and Harry (and Kate) have done excellent work in establishing themselves as the youthful, modern face of royalty.“ As the fortieth monarch since William the conqueror, the Queen has presided over the slow collapse of the British Empire and the transformation into the modern monarchy.

Every time there is a transition, as there must be at some point in the future, the monarchy comes under renewed scrutiny. With unprecedented media focus, such changes become a high wire act. Greg Jenner considers the only likely scenario that “might lead to significant public disgruntlement with the monarchy will probably be if Charles politicises the crown in his impending tenure, or if yet more public finances are spent on expensive palace restoration.” Even this doesn’t necessarily spell disaster according to Jenner: ”I suspect the British people would patiently endure for a couple of decades, knowing the next generation will be well-suited to the task. Our monarchy has gone through much more turbulent times in the past: the illness of George III, the debauchery of George IV, the sexual controversies of Edward VII, and the Abdication Crisis.”
And will Charles politicise the crown? No, because if he does, he's stupid and he's not.

Read the article to see what Dan Snow and Kate Williams said.
 
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:previous: Yes, the British monarchy will survive alright. It's weathered crisis immensely larger than the death of a beloved monarch or an unfortunate divorce or a young royal giving a frank interview.

The "experts" and "commentators" always go to the edge, because such headlines sell.
They always use quotes out of context and always the most dramatic quotes, because that sells and the readers are "stupid".

Perhaps other BRF members should give interviews similar to Harry? Because who are William and Kate? Who are Charles and Camilla, - today?
 
:previous:Yes, the British monarchy will of course survive the Queen's death - and this is why:

Republicanism in the UK remains among the lowest in the world, with figures rarely exceeding 20% in support of a British republic, some polls have it as low 13%, and consistent 70/80% support for the continuation of the Monarchy.

To abolish the British monarchy will be very difficult.
1: Most polls must show a majority for a republic, this is very very unlikely.
2: Majority in the house of commons for a referendum, this is not going to happen.
3: Majority in the referendum for a republic, this is not going to happen.
4: Changing the country's name, changing the pound, remove the royal name from all state institutions. These are just some of the things that must be changed.
5: All of this is going to cost so much money that even many Republicans will start doubting it.
6: The vast majority of the british population will never vote to replace a constitutional monarchy with a divisive politician or a celebrity.

But will it be a challenge for the monarchy to lose the most popular, famous and most iconic head of state (many would say person) in the world? Yes of course it will. And I think (like some of the more serious commentators) that this will be the biggest challenge the British monarchy has been facing since 1936 (much bigger than Dianas death).

The British Monarch is also head of state of 15 other nations and (for now) head of the commonwealth - will that continue after the Queen?

Canada: Most likely.

Australia: 50% yes - 50% no.

New Zealand: Most likely (at least for a while.)

The 12 other countries: Don't need (or choose not to have) referendums - so it's easier to abolish the monarchy for them.

I thought in 2012 that some of these countries would become republics by 2017, but it has been postponed again and again and again.

And if these countries choose to elect their own head of states, then it has nothing to do with republicanism - it has more to do with the idea of having a foreign person as their head of state.
 
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/snip/

5. And people such as Graham Smith of Republic and other people (many of them monarchist) are now complaining about royals that are reluctant to do the work, but happy to take the perks and privileges that come with the role.
/snip/

I find very little Graham Smith says to be worth the pixels needed to render it. He's just about the most reactionary, tedious, and predictable noisemaker in the whole thing, and it baffles me that Richard Palmer works so hard to give him an uncritical megaphone.

With that said "not wanting to be monarch" != "not wanting to do the work". There is only one monarch at a time, and only a few of the royals will ever take the throne. Saying that he's not sure any of them want to be the monarch is so many miles away from saying that they don't want to do royal work that conflating the two is painfully dishonest.
 
:previous: I adore the Queen and I am a great admirer of Charles and a big fan of William and Kate. I am also (like 70/80% of the UK population) a big supporter of our constitutional monarchy, but I respect those who think it's wrong to have an unelected head of state.

What I don't respect is lying manipulating ignorant bullies sush as Graham Smith, Kevin Mcguire and Stig Abell or crazy psychopaths such as Russell Brand or the thugs in Daily Fail comment section. They (the DF trolls) are (as i says all the time on these threads) a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic, ignorant, sick, spiteful bullies who hates everyone. And they represents a very tiny minority of the UK public, and many of them are from other countries.
 
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Let's face it here. We are fast approaching an end of an era. Most of us have never known anything different other that HM, The Queen's reign. Its been that way for my entire life (detracting the less that one month. I was born January 8th and King George VI died February 6th). The Queen has always had her specific ways of following traditions, her own soft way of diplomacy and the strength and stamina that has become iconic in reflecting the British people themselves.

We've not known anything different and no one that sits on the throne after her is going to be exactly like her. They can't. She's going to be a very tough act to follow but also, Charles has had a lifetime of observing her, learning from her and yet, over the years, has developed his own personality, his own thoughts on how things should be done and had to carve out a role for himself. He is going to be a different kind of a king for the main reason being that he's not a clone nor a puppet that is programmed to be exactly like his mother.

It'll be easy to say that Charles will be breaking from tradition because we've come to believe that over her long reign, the Queen's way of doing things are tradition. Charles may not put as much emphasis on Ascot week because he's not a horse racing fan as his mother was. Charles may switch things up as far as the way the royal family celebrates holidays and what family attends. Charles' familial relationships are not the same as his mother's.

It will be the same thing when William becomes king. We probably won't be as stuck in Charles' traditions as we were with The Queen's but yet the differences between Charles and William as a monarch will reflect in their own personal ways. With William, we could even see more fly pasts simply because he enjoys them more because of his experiences with flying.

Each monarch puts his own stamp on his/her reign that reflect the person. We're just so used to the Queen's ways of doing things that its hard to imagine anything else.
 
Osiipi are you a Capricorn? me too. yes of course there will be changes.. Charles will do things a bit differently to his mother, so will William. And the queen does things differently now to what happened in the early years of her reign. Life moves on.. that's life...
 
Yeps. that's me. I'm an old goat. :D

I think the biggest danger to the British monarchy actually would be stagnation. Its great to keep the old and meaningful traditions that reflects continuity and the history that got the monarchy to where it is right now but without changes, the monarchy becomes separate from the world around it and loses relevancy and becomes an archaic institution no longer capable of serving its people.
 
It does change.. it has change a huge amount in the last 20 years.. It changes all the time but some people want to believe that it never will change.. and that traditions which ony go back say to Q Victoria are there from time immemorial...
 
I'm currently reading King, Kaiser, Tsar by Catrine Clay that focuses on the lives and relationships between three cousins and grandchildren of Queen Victoria, George V of the UK, Wilhelm II of Germany and Nicholas II of Russia and how these three were instrumental leading up to WWI.

Then changes between then and now are remarkable. The UK was a constitutional monarch then as it is now but the ways of thinking and how things should be done through their eyes is totally different from what we see now. In years to come, it will probably be the same thing reading an extensive historical work of how the monarchy changed after Queen Elizabeth II.

Wish I had this kind of love for historical data and insights into the people involved back when I was in school. Ah well.... better late than never eh?
 
When the Monarchy does settle on Charles' shoulders, the most interesting (for me) changes will be of a cultural nature.

The current Queen is a woman of such simple tastes -- in literature, music, etc. compared to Charles. Mind you, Great Britain has always done well by monarchs with simple tastes! Anyway, Charles' wide-ranging interests and depth of knowledge might lead to a real flowering of the arts in the UK.
 
The Queen could live another 10 years...who knows if Charles will even get to be King.

Wouldn't that be interesting if it went from Elizabeth to William ...no ill wishes on Charles though.


LaRae
 
cant see how that is NOT ill wishing Charles, since he would have to predecease his mother and leave her, a very old woman, burying her eldest son.
I can't see what would be interesting about it, as Wiliam is not an interesting man...

I'm
Then changes between then and now are remarkable. The UK was a constitutional monarch then as it is now but the ways of thinking and how things should be done through their eyes is totally different from what we see now. In years to come, it will probably be the same thing reading an extensive historical work of how the monarchy changed after Queen Elizabeth II.

Wish I had this kind of love for historical data and insights into the people involved back when I was in school. Ah well.... better late than never eh?
True a constitutional monarchy but all the same Britain was not then a full democracy and the upper classes still had a huge role in government and in the wealth of the country. Germany was still pretty much dominated however by the officer classes and the Kaiser was much more dominant In politics than Geo V or Edward had been. and Russia was pretty much an absolute monarchy still at that time.
But the RF now, and its ways are very differnet ot what they were even 20 years ago when Chas and Diana were a young married couple.
 
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Its simply a matter of probabilities and possibilities. HM very well could outlive her eldest son. The Queen Mum outlived her youngest child albeit by only a short while. It is very well within the realm of possibility that the throne could pass from Elizabeth to William but its a slight chance and not really probable.
 
cant see how that is NOT ill wishing Charles, since he would have to predecease his mother and leave her, a very old woman, burying her eldest son.
I can't see what would be interesting about it, as Wiliam is not an interesting man...

I didn't say I wanted him to die. Reality is folks sometimes die. In 10 years look at the age he will be.



LaRae
 
I'm currently reading King, Kaiser, Tsar by Catrine Clay that focuses on the lives and relationships between three cousins and grandchildren of Queen Victoria, George V of the UK, Wilhelm II of Germany and Nicholas II of Russia and how these three were instrumental leading up to WWI.

Then changes between then and now are remarkable. The UK was a constitutional monarch then as it is now but the ways of thinking and how things should be done through their eyes is totally different from what we see now. In years to come, it will probably be the same thing reading an extensive historical work of how the monarchy changed after Queen Elizabeth II.

I don't think the comparison is very accurate. The differences between the UK,, Russia and Germany in the early 20th century went far beyond the personalities of their respective sovereigns.

As you said, the UK was a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary government , though not quite a democracy yet as universal male suffrage wasn't actually introduced until 1918 and gender-neutral universal suffrage not until 1928. In any case, KIng George V did not run the British government, and the government was, for all practical purposes, responsible to Parliament, not to the King. Germany, on the other hand, was also a constitutional monarchy, with a federal parliament whose lower house, unlike in Britain, was actually elected by universal male suffrage; the executive government (i.e. the Chancellor) was, however, responsible to the Kaiser and not to the legislature, and the Kaiser interfered directly in government policy, especially when it came to foreign policy and the military. Finally, Russia, despite some advances after the Revolution of 1905, was still pretty much an autocracy where the Tsar had enormous power.

Going back to our times, the constitution of the United Kingdom, despite changing from time to time, is to a large extent pretty much settled now, at least in terms of the role of the monarch and his/her relation to other institutions like the government or Parliament. I don't expect there will be any changes in that respect then under Charles or William. Most of what I expect to change is actually in the realm of family traditions and social events (Christmas at Sandrigham, the Ascot races, etc.) as well as protocol and the daily running of the Royal Household.
 
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