The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Denville]

I have always wondered at what point they really decided to leave, until the interview when they said quite clearly that they had not side lined the family with their decision as it had been under discussion for 2 years.

They made the announcement in 2020 so 2 years takes it to 2018 either before or after the wedding. That is where I now have the problem as it appears there was always a plan, so I am not sure how they can say it was due to media coverage or the treatment Meghan received by the family/ institution or the media.

But they continaully say things that contradict other things. If it was due to media cruelty to Meghan or the RF being unkind to her, how come they said that they had "not blindsided the queen" and that there had been discussions going on from 2018 even before they got married?

 

[Moran]

I saw those articles as well. My theory is that Harry and Meghan were receiving a certain amount of money from Charles but that was not just for their personal spending but to cover staff, work clothing, transportation, etc. They had no housing expenses other than the cost of remodeling Frogmore. Security was provided by the government.

The Canadian Prime Minister initially said that the government would fund Harry and Meghan's security, which created a huge backlash and he had to withdraw the offer, so Harry and Meghan were caught by surprise.

I also saw articles that indicated Charles gave them some money and would be willing to give them more. Harry obviously felt that he should not be expected to pay for his own security because that the need was due to an accident of birth (of course, his wealth was also due to an accident of birth). I suspect that Charles declined to cover the cost of Harry and Meghan's security, which was considerable. That is what led to Charles refusing to take Harry's calls for a while.

That makes sense but only if we accept that Canada was Plan A and Santa Barbara was just a spur of the moment decision. Personally, I find it hard to believe that Harry who clearly believed Meghan's star power was undermined by his jealous family, really planned to stay for years and years on a Canadian island. There are places in America where they could lead the same quiet life but no, they headed straight for Meghan's old place and the lifestyle many actors covet. The deals they're said to have planned well before they left (I never got to know if the youtube-rival thing was confirmed or not) all involved cameras, not peace and quiet and remote working. There's nothing wrong with this but all things considered, I can't really believe that Harry and Meghan were planning to set roots in Canada for more than a year or two, tops.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

I usually don't write much in this thread, and I only catch up with it occasionally. Why? Well, besides lack of time, I really don't enjoy the H&M-bashing. Pro-Harry and Meghan? I challenge people to find one post among the last 2-300 posts that is pro, not con. This thread is post after post about bashing H&M.

I'm not saying that I agree with everything that they have done, and especially not with how it's been handled. Not at all. But I do think that there's two sides - or more - to this story. I don't think that Meghan is the calculating mean woman that some posters seems to think she is. And I don't think that the Charles, William and the other side of the family is white as snow and has done everything right.

I come from a family where the importance of mental health and racism has been brutally highlighted the last couple of years. I've lost a niece and a nephew (not from the same family) to suicide. My nice was also biracial, and even though that wasn't a main reason why we lost her, it certainly didn't make life easier for her. So when someone says that they have mental health problems, I take that seriously. I cut them some extra slack. I do what I can to help if it's a friend.

Harry and Meghan aren't without guilt. I'm not on their side. I'm not on any side at all in this story, because I don't know enough about what has happened. And I dare to say that neither one of us do. We don't know these people. But I'm definitely on the side where I take mental health issues seriously.

I'll go back to reading other threads now. It's not good for my own mental health to read so much negativity and anger that's acumulating in this thread. I just wanted to speak up, because I don't think that I'm the only one.

This is very beautifully said. I couldn't agree more and I think anyone disagreeing that the thread isn't overwhelmingly negative towards every single thing the Sussexes do or say must be wearing blinders.

There's reasonable criticism of H&M's thoroughly stupid decisions (of which there are several) and then there's whatever compels people to vilify their every move, read malicious intent into everything they do and have radically different standards for them than for every other royal. The first I understand, the latter is unfathomable to me. Imagine holding on to so much anger over two people who have nothing to do with you and whose actions don't affect you personally in the slightest.

I'm sorry but thinking that the RF can stop 'leaks' is completely ludicrous and utterly unrealistic. How do they do it? How would this 'professional formal inquiry' figure out which of the staff members (of which there are hundreds across the households) are responsible for the 'leaks'? Should they all be hooked up to lie detector tests? Should they be put under interrogation? Or should the RF simply do a 'night of the long knives' and purge them all, the innocent included? The scandal which would follow, not to mention the employment tribunals and the inevitable incredibly costly compensation would make the Sussex drama look like child's play in comparison.

People who work for the royals have always and will always speak to journalists off the record. Some people who work in politics, business, entertainment, sport etc. do as well. Without leaks and insiders speaking to journalists off the record we wouldn't have a free press holding the powerful to account that would be worth the name. These off the record leaks to reputable journalists appear to be the only way the victims of Meghan's bullying feel able to set the record straight and affect change in how such things are handled internally (...)

I think it's equally ludicrous to think the various members of the BRF (or any other royal family for that matter – press leaks aren't exclusive to the Brits) aren't at least is aware of (and probably often also have a hand in) a good chunk of the leaks. Trying to change the narrative in your favour is the cornerstone of PR and pretending the BRF – especially after the War of the Waleses – don't make use of that is terribly naïve IMO.

 

[Denville]

That makes sense but only if we accept that Canada was Plan A and Santa Barbara was just a spur of the moment decision. Personally, I find it hard to believe that Harry who clearly believed Meghan's star power was undermined by his jealous family, really planned to stay for years and years on a Canadian island. There are places in America where they could lead the same quiet life but no, they headed straight for Meghan's old place and the lifestyle many actors covet. The deals they're said to have planned well before they left (I never got to know if the youtube-rival thing was confirmed or not) all involved cameras, not peace and quiet and remote working. There's nothing wrong with this but all things considered, I can't really believe that Harry and Meghan were planning to set roots in Canada for more than a year or two, tops.

I think its obvious that Canada was a blind, to make their departure seem more acceptable to the public.. ie "they're not leaving the UK to live the high life, they are going to settle in a quiet place, and lead a quiet life, doing a bit of charity work".. but I'm sure it was never more than a short term plan. They may have thought of staying in Canada for a few years as it is close to the US and they could (before Covid) have taken on speaking engagements or whatever, in the US and flitted back and forth...
But when the borders were closing they headed for the US like homing pigeons.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I think it's equally ludicrous to think the various members of the BRF (or any other royal family for that matter – press leaks aren't exclusive to the Brits) aren't at least is aware of (and probably often also have a hand in) a good chunk of the leaks. Trying to change the narrative in your favour is the cornerstone of PR and pretending the BRF – especially after the War of the Waleses – don't make use of that is terribly naïve IMO.

Perhaps the Royal Family has been using leaks against Harry and Meghan but if so, it would have been in response to Harry and Meghan publicly complaining about them. According to the royal family's "truth," Harry and Meghan treated them unfairly. None of the recent leaks by the palace would have occurred if Harry and Meghan hadn't given the interview.

 

[Heavs]

There are places in America where they could lead the same quiet life but no, they headed straight for Meghan's old place and the lifestyle many actors covet. The deals they're said to have planned well before they left (I never got to know if the youtube-rival thing was confirmed or not) all involved cameras, not peace and quiet and remote working. There's nothing wrong with this but all things considered, I can't really believe that Harry and Meghan were planning to set roots in Canada for more than a year or two, tops.

Yes their spokesperson confirmed that they had been in talks with Quibi after The Telegraph broke the story. That was before Archie was born in Jan 2019. KP staff were apparently frustrated because they knew the talks were happening but didn't know the content so couldn't advise/plan. Allegedly.

I think LA was always their plan, at least part time (if the "half and half" thing had worked out). But they probably would have stayed in Canada longer if Trudeau's promise had worked out.

There were rumours before the SA trip that there was an idea that they could go and live in SA for a few years and we learned later that Sara Latham was prepared to go with them. Now I don't think that was ever going to work out but it shows that the family were indeed aware and trying to find solutions for them.

It is hard to know exactly what they planned when because they contradicted themselves quite a bit and their "manifesto" definitely looked hurried and half cocked after Bradby started hinting to the rest of the press that they wanted to leave. And of course they hadn't actually agreed anything. So long in the pie in the sky hypothesising, short on the practical "what if we have to pay for X Y Z ? and the family doesn't agree details".

There were also rumours that Charles did give them some money for the 16 bathrooms but we don't know if that's at all true. Keeping them in the style of A listers and multi billionaire neighbours in Montecito, complete with 24 hour security, private schools, memberships etc indefinitely is *a lot* of money. If they had gone for a different, cheaper area Charles might have been more willing to keep doing it but we don't know exactly what triggered this "cutting off".

There are hypothesises that the interview was supposed to come out *before* the 1 year review ended and they wanted to try and use it as leverage to keep their patronages and things had to be reshot after the plug was pulled early but there's no clear source for that at all.

 

[Alisa]

Perhaps the Royal Family has been using leaks against Harry and Meghan but if so, it would have been in response to Harry and Meghan publicly complaining about them. According to the royal family's "truth," Harry and Meghan treated them unfairly. None of the recent leaks by the palace would have occurred if Harry and Meghan hadn't given the interview.

No, just the opposite. In fact that is one of the things Harry and Meghan complained about in the interview- the fact that there were leaks and falsehoods being allowed to perpetuate about in media and press.

Leaking stories to a royal's advantage is nothing new. Charles notoriously did this in the 1990s and well up to when he married Camilla. Anyone remember Mark Bolland?

 

[US Royal Watcher]

No, just the opposite. In fact that is one of the things Harry and Meghan complained about in the interview- the fact that there were leaks and falsehoods being allowed to perpetuate about in media and press.

Leaking stories to a royal's advantage is nothing new. Charles notoriously did this in the 1990s and well up to when he married Camilla. Anyone remember Mark Bolland?

I know they complained about leaks and misinformation. The silly story about making Meghan cry and the allegations that Meghan bullied her staff - which is under investigation by an independent organization. As we all know, all the royals are subject to untrue stories and they have all used the media from time to time. None of that excuses Harry and Meghan publicly trashing their own family with untrue allegations - such as Archie isn't a prince because of his heritage.

 

[Moran]

I think its obvious that Canada was a blind, to make their departure seem more acceptable to the public.. ie "they're not leaving the UK to live the high life, they are going to settle in a quiet place, and lead a quiet life, doing a bit of charity work".. but I'm sure it was never more than a short term plan. They may have thought of staying in Canada for a few years as it is close to the US and they could (before Covid) have taken on speaking engagements or whatever, in the US and flitted back and forth...
But when the borders were closing they headed for the US like homing pigeons.

Which makes me wonder if they still thought that it was the RF throwing a tantrum before admitting their star power and irreplaceable qualities and begging them to come back at the end of the one year long review. Given what Harry said, they do seem blindsided by the actions of the RF who didn't adhere to the script Harry and Meghan had drawn in their heads. There's no other reason for them to try and make themselves acceptable to the British public but the expectation to get their half in, half out scenario at the end. The American public was always going to embrace them.

 

[Sandy345]

WE do not know that,

Diana did and commented on it.

 

[Mbruno]

I don’t think Charles would have had a problem funding part of Harry’s lifestyle indefinitely. What may have been murky was what Harry was getting the money for. Charles may have seen the money he gave Harry as sort of a salary for his work as a royal, while Harry saw it as just money from dad, with no conditions or strings attached. When Harry upset the apple cart with very little notice and expected the funding to continue, or even increase to cover the security costs, Charles may have balked.

I think that security in particular was something that Harry took for granted as he has had PPOs for his entire life. So I believe he was genuinely shocked when he learned that he and his family wouldn't get it anymore, even though he should have realized that it was not realistic to expect the Met Police to protect them 24/7 in Canada. Curiously, he doesn't seem to blame the Canadians for withdrawing RCMP protection. Instead, he blames the Palace for his "change of status", which in turn prompted the Canadian decision to discontinue police protection.

 

[Denville]

Which makes me wonder if they still thought that it was the RF throwing a tantrum before admitting their star power and irreplaceable qualities and begging them to come back at the end of the one year long review. Given what Harry said, they do seem blindsided by the actions of the RF who didn't adhere to the script Harry and Meghan had drawn in their heads. There's no other reason for them to try and make themselves acceptable to the British public but the expectation to get their half in, half out scenario at the end. The American public was always going to embrace them.

I jsut find it hard to imagine Meghan at least coming back, once she'd settled in LA. I think she was done with the UK by then.. but if the RF had said, "Please come back as part timers".. she might have come back occasionally for a few engagements, Harry might have come back more often...with the excuse that Meghan had commitments in LA and was looking after the children, while he would go back and do a bit more work in the UK.. But it didn't happen..

 

[Moran]

I jsut find it hard to imagine Meghan at least coming back, once she'd settled in LA. I think she was done with the UK by then.. but if the RF had said, "Please come back as part timers".. she might have come back occasionally for a few engagements, Harry might have come back more often...with the excuse that Meghan had commitments in LA and was looking after the children, while he would go back and do a bit more work in the UK.. But it didn't happen..

That's what I meant but my English isn't at its best when I've got a headache... IMO, in the interview they looked genuinely surprised that they didn't get their way - and their way was always the half in, half out thing and Meghan going back for the glamorous parts and little else. That was what their manifesto was about and with every word Harry spoke in the interview, I was left with the impression that they really expected the review to end theur way, hence the announcement that they were moving to Canada. They wouldn't need the UK's goodwill if they were really done with being working royals but they would if they were to come back part time.

 

[suztav]

Harry just wanted to be a regular person. Well, buddy, we regular people don’t get handouts from Daddy.

 

[Mbruno]

Although, some royals like the QUeen Mother would pay attention to William and ignore Harry.

How do you know that ?

 

[Sandy345]

One of her interviews or comments. I have to look it up.

One article, I have to go through books about Diana to get more.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertai...ly-but-senior-royals-called-it-nonsense.html/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/queen-mother-treated-spare-heir-22354180

 

[Roslyn]

I have just had a look at the information at https://sussexroyal.com/funding/ and I found it confusing. It talks about funding for the "Office of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex". It says 5% comes from the Sovereign Grant to "covering costs associated with employing members of their official office".

Immediately before that, the site says, "Since the establishment of The Office of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, 95 percent of the funding received for their Office expenditure is derived from income allocated by HRH The Prince of Wales, generated through the Duchy of Cornwall. This provision has been in place since Prince William and Prince Harry first established their offices in support of The Queen, and is the responsibility of The Prince of Wales. This information continues to be available on The Duchy of Cornwall website."

That blurb contains a link to a separate page which talks about the "new working model" proposed in early 2020, and that page says: "After many months of reflection and internal discussions, we have chosen to make a transition this year in starting to carve out a progressive new role within this institution. We intend to step back as ‘senior’ members of the Royal Family, and work to become financially independent, while continuing to fully support Her Majesty The Queen."

Still confusing, but my point is they seem to be saying that the 95% from Charles was for costs associated with "The Office of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex", and surely private living expenses are not costs of "The Office". Further, the funding for their Office expenditure would surely be expected to cease once they ceased to be working members of the Royal Family at all and had no "Office", which is what has happened. So why would they still expect to receive money from Charles?

 

[Betsypaige]

You're right, I was getting ahead of myself and believe me, I'm trying to think more positively, but it's hard to do when you have been pessimistic for a long time. That said, I also think that reconciliation is the best path for both sides to take so this drama can finally be consigned to the history books.

I’m the most pessimistic, worried person you can imagine, believe me...you don’t need to go crazy trying to change. I just don’t ever want to give up on a reconciliation because that would be incredibly sad. They love each other ...now I think we just have to give it time. I do hope that their every move won’t be psychoanalyzed - I’m so tired of body language experts. I saw one today say that Charles was walking out of step with his siblings during the funeral, so it means that he’s going to do whatever he wants to do. Just stop and let the family breathe.

 

[Betsypaige]

I have always wondered at what point they really decided to leave, until the interview when they said quite clearly that they had not side lined the family with their decision as it had been under discussion for 2 years.

They made the announcement in 2020 so 2 years takes it to 2018 either before or after the wedding. That is where I now have the problem as it appears there was always a plan, so I am not sure how they can say it was due to media coverage or the treatment Meghan received by the family/ institution or the media.

It was clear after they left that they’d had a plan in place for a long time..no one just spontaneously moved across the ocean just because, with no idea of what they were going to do. That’s what bothered/s me; they never had any intention of staying if they couldn’t get exactly what they wanted

 

[amaryllus]

Harry just wanted to be a regular person. Well, buddy, we regular people don’t get handouts from Daddy.

I do believe His idea of “regular” is like The Middletons and many of his old girl friends and the other extremely wealthy but non aristocratic people he grew up around. Plenty of cash and leisure time to vacation but no duties or responsibilities that come from a title.

That someone had to work long long hours and scrimp and probably do without to get the money to have that privileged life for their descendants has most likely never occurred to Harry because I just don’t see him as that reflective or thoughtful.

 

[Curryong]

Harry served ten years in the army which included two periods in active service in Afghanistan. During that decade he mixed with ‘ordinary people’ every day, to a far greater extent, I would suggest, than many other senior royals in his family. Service life is a great leveller.

 

[Hallo girl]

Harry served ten years in the army which included two periods in active service in Afghanistan. During that decade he mixed with ‘ordinary people’ every day, to a far greater extent, I would suggest, than many other senior royals in his family. Service life is a great leveller.

He is not the only royal to serve in the military or a war zone. I am also not sure how it levelled Harry now living in his mansion.

 

[Curryong]

Now Prince Philip has gone Harry is the only royal besides Andrew to have served in a war zone. And practically every one of his near relations in his birth family also live in mansions. Just because he does doesn’t mean that Harry doesn’t have the capacity to empathise with the problems of people he has met over the years and I do believe he does.

 

[UglyAmerican]

I don't see how they could have made the part-time thing work if they lived in the US rather than a Commonwealth country. I don't know how workable it would have been from Canada, either, but it might have been at least theoretically possible if they (or just Harry) was willing to fly back and forth a lot. So if Canada was a blind, then that whole plan would have been one, and I don't think it was.

 

[Alisa]

I know they complained about leaks and misinformation. The silly story about making Meghan cry and the allegations that Meghan bullied her staff - which is under investigation by an independent organization. As we all know, all the royals are subject to untrue stories and they have all used the media from time to time. None of that excuses Harry and Meghan publicly trashing their own family with untrue allegations - such as Archie isn't a prince because of his heritage.

The coupled aired their grievances to Oprah- some where legit others not so. The RF must stay above the fray and not appear to be leaking (or continue to ) leak info that puts the Sussexes in a bad light no matter how common place the practice is. " Tit for tat "behavior is simply not a good look.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Now Prince Philip has gone Harry is the only royal besides Andrew to have served in a war zone. And practically every one of his near relations in his birth family also live in mansions. Just because he does doesn’t mean that Harry doesn’t have the capacity to empathise with the problems of people he has met over the years and I do believe he does.

I agree with you but the issue isn't his empathy, it is whether his expectations were reasonable. When he and Meghan stepped back, they thought Canadians would pay for their security. It wasn't wishful thinking it is because the Prime Minister said so.

However, when that offer was withdrawn, I don't think there was a plan B. Based on the interview, I surmise that Harry thought that Charles should pick up the cost. I can understand why he asked but Charles didn't want to do it. Harry became angry, which I can understand. But I think it is deplorable that he trashed Charles in an interview and has not expressed a public word of appreciation to his father for supporting him all those years.

But that is my middle-class values talking.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

The coupled aired their grievances to Oprah- some where legit others not so. The RF must stay above the fray and not appear to be leaking (or continue to ) leak info that puts the Sussexes in a bad light no matter how common place the practice is. " Tit for tat "behavior is simply not a good look.

I generally agree with that but there is a point when I am very sympathetic that the people attacked want to respond - and I think Harry and Meghan crossed that point. I don't think it is fair to expect the royal family to not want to respond to allegations of racism and cruelty.

 

[Alisa]

Harry just wanted to be a regular person. Well, buddy, we regular people don’t get handouts from Daddy.

Harry said all they wanted to do was to "step back" from being senior royals not "walk away". Security is extremely important as Harry is the son of a future King. Since marrying a woman of color there has been an increased risk and threats against him and his family. Daddy should've always continued to provide security.

 

[amaryllus]

Now Prince Philip has gone Harry is the only royal besides Andrew to have served in a war zone. And practically every one of his near relations in his birth family also live in mansions. Just because he does doesn’t mean that Harry doesn’t have the capacity to empathise with the problems of people he has met over the years and I do believe he does.

I am sure he is sympathetic about someone losing their job or being Hungry. Most people would be. You want them to feel better. But feeling Empathy means you can relate emotionally to them losing a job or going hungry because you have been there in their shoes. It’s stronger and deeper. Now if he meets someone just lost a beloved grandfather or is on the outs with their brother he can relate to them.

 

[UglyAmerican]

Harry said all they wanted to do was to "step back" from being senior royals not "walk away". Security is extremely important as Harry is the son of a future King. Since marrying a woman of color there has been an increased risk and threats against him and his family. Daddy should've always continued to provide security.

The absolute maximum he'd be entitled to on that basis is whatever amount security would cost if he were living quietly at Frogmore. That's not going to put a dent in the security costs for his Montecito mansion. Assuming that conversation occurred before they bought the mansion, I think it's very odd that they bought such a home while they were worried about being able to pay for security. Their priorities aren't what most people's would have been.