The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Betsypaige]

The latest update from the Daily Mail is that Harry has booked an open ticket back to LA, so may stay in the UK for a few days more, in order to be there for his grandmother's birthday.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...elay-return-LA-stay-Queens-birthday-week.html

And yes, I know the DM is not a bastion of journalistic integrity, so take all of this with a pinch of salt

I read that earlier, also. I think he’s expected to leave tomorrow, but it would be wonderful if he stayed. It would mean so much to HM, his father, everyone

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

So it is Scobie official! I could not get past the awful grammar in the article: “her and Harry’s 11M mansion; pregnant with her and Harry’s second child.” I know it is the DM but who writes these articles??

 

[Kaye1850]

On second thought, I am deleting.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

It’s not about just how much coverage the wreath actually got IMO. (Which is plenty now from what I’ve seen; I’ve seen TV and internet stories cover this.) It’s that Meghan herself felt the need to publicize the extent of her thoughtfulness as a funeral was beginning- of all times. In general- I don’t think she should have done it all, but the timing made it worse. As another poster said- it’s self- serving. It’s putting attention on herself. It’s what it tells me about her and her values.

Meghan apparently felt the world needs to know just what a thoughtful person she is. And they needed to know as a funeral was beginning. So, lots of people will have at least heard. It wasn’t enough to actually just be thoughtful. Or for the family to know. No- EVERYONE needs to know how much effort she put into it. And I’m sure it did take time and thought. But...why say it at all. No one else did. Only her.

Thanks, this is very well stated!

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Meghan wasted her time letting it out then if nobody is interested.

I find it quite interesting that a number of posters are disappointed in Meghans action with regards announcing the wreath, imagine the different attitude if the information had came out a few days after the funeral with for example an article about various wreaths but noting the thoughtfulness in the choice of flowers in the Sussex wreath. I am sure we would have viewed it differently.
We would have been saying what a lovely thought, which is probably what Meghan thought she was going to hear.Timing is everything

I agree with you. While I agree that sending a press release in the middle of a funeral is ghastly, I would have been interested in hearing about the meaning of the flowers. But I can imagine that some were quite personal and other members of the RF didn’t want to share the details.

 

[Roslyn]

I agree with you. While I agree that sending a press release in the middle of a funeral is ghastly, I would have been interested in hearing about the meaning of the flowers. But I can imagine that some were quite personal and other members of the RF didn’t want to share the details.

I have a lot of sympathy for Meghan's desire to be independent and not have to lose her identity merely because she has married a member of the BRF... BUT, she is a grown woman rapidly approaching middle age and she should know that you have to pick your battles carefully. The funeral of the much loved consort of the Queen was not the place to shout from afar and draw attention to herself. I am interested in the language of flowers but unless the majority of the royals who chose the composition of the wreaths they sent (and some of them may have just said to their florist, "Send a wreath" without expressing any opinion about its contents) were prepared to participate in an article explaining their choices, I do not need to know the details of Meghan's choices. By being the only one to do this, and at such an inappropriate time, Meghan has drawn attention to herself when what she should have done is demonstrate she can be a team player when the occasion demands it.

 

[Erin9]

“Some reports yesterday said that neither his aunt Princess Anne nor his uncle Prince Edward acknowledged Harry before or during the service.“



We, of course, have no way of knowing if this is true but I can’t say I’d be even a little bit surprised if it is. Anne very much seems the type to be more than angry and irritated with the way he and Meghan have behaved and at their timing and lack thereof. She doesn’t suffer fools easily and I doubt she really has much use force these two any longer. As for Edward, I’ve long gotten the impression that he and Sophie are close to the Cambridges and even to Charles and Camilla and we know how close they are/were to HM and the late DoE. I think there might very well be an element of loyalty happening there and they probably don’t have much use for Harry and Meghan right now, either.

It wouldn’t stun me if that was the case- and for some of the reasons you listed.

The press is focusing on Harry’s relationship with William and Charles. Of course, those are the only ones we know are strained. Any others would be pure speculation. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the damage is more widespread.

 

[Osipi]

There's a time and place for everything and Meghan got it totally wrong with the press release about the wreath. It's as Philip said "You don't look at the camera but you look at the people that are there to see you". Meghan, with the press release at an inappropriate time was courting the press which equates to looking at the camera. The focus of the day was on the Duke of Edinburgh and the reality of it all is that Meghan was very inconsequential to the whole day from beginning to end. I doubt she was even missed at the funeral. People's thoughts were elsewhere and so were the people that tuned in to watch the funeral broadcast.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I have a lot of sympathy for Meghan's desire to be independent and not have to lose her identity merely because she has married a member of the BRF... BUT, she is a grown woman rapidly approaching middle age and she should know that you have to pick your battles carefully. The funeral of the much loved consort of the Queen was not the place to shout from afar and draw attention to herself. I am interested in the language of flowers but unless the majority of the royals who chose the composition of the wreaths they sent (and some of them may have just said to their florist, "Send a wreath" without expressing any opinion about its contents) were prepared to participate in an article explaining their choices, I do not need to know the details of Meghan's choices. By being the only one to do this, and at such an inappropriate time, Meghan has drawn attention to herself when what she should have done is demonstrate she can be a team player when the occasion demands it.

Yes, that is a good point. Probably most people grieving might say “make it pretty” as opposed to worrying about the meaning of the flowers. I’m afraid I don’t think that Meghan can be a team player; there again, a part of the problem.

 

[Erin9]

I agree with this, though being frosty and having the feud play out in front of a fragile and vulnerable Queen isn’t a great idea. There’s a middle ground between being cold and being affectionate and warm, and I think that should have been the road taken.

I don’t think Edward or Anne would do anything to further upset their mother.

 

[Osipi]

I don’t think Edward or Anne would do anything to further upset their mother.

I think with the situation within the family, it actually was a blessing that Philip passed while Covid restrictions were in place. Really gave a good reason for any of them to social distance from the other.

 

[Betsypaige]

I don’t think Edward or Anne would do anything to further upset their mother.

Right, I mean their mother has just lost the man she’s loved for 70 plus years, they lost their father, and they’re going to take the time to bring deliberately rude? I do find it hard to believe,

 

[UglyAmerican]

I don't find it all that hard to believe. It's well-known that Anne in particular has no patience for drama queens, and Lady C's description of how she never got along with Meghan was believable for that reason. I'm sure Anne and Edward love their brother Charles. In addition to their own grief and their own opinions about Harry's actions, it must have been difficult to for them to witness Charles's obvious devastation while knowing that instead of being able to mourn in peace, he felt obligated to try to repair some of the bridges Harry burned.

 

[_Heather_]

I doubt either Anne or Edward would have ever made a scene or gone out of their way to be rude. However, I also don’t think they’d have gone out of their way to acknowledge him or speak to him. I’d say it’s much more likely they just simply ignored him.

 

[Erin9]

I doubt either Anne or Edward would have ever made a scene or gone out of their way to be rude. However, I also don’t think they’d have gone out of their way to acknowledge him or speak to him. I’d say it’s much more likely they just simply ignored him.

Yes- that’s what I was trying to say.

I find it very believable that they are upset with him for many reasons. But they would not have caused a scene or done anything to add stress for their mother- or anyone else for that matter.

 

[Curryong]

And did Harry rush about trying to speaking to them? I would say that in these times of Covid few of the RF went around trying to speak to other members outside their own household bubbles. I didn’t see any mass getting together of any of the extended family before, during or after the funeral.

Was Anne for example seen speaking to Camilla, Andrew or his daughters or either of the Wessexes to other family members? I think that all of them (especially the older ones and Anne IS seventy) for the most part stayed apart in their own family bubbles, due to regulations.

 

[Zonk]

This thread is ALL OVER the place...the future of the monarchy, order of precedence, Prince Phillips's Funeral and that bloody wreath!

Posts about the Future of the British Monarchy have been moved to the appropriate thread, which can be found https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...he-british-monarchy-44877-59.html#post2392515 .

Let's stay on topic.

 

[Betsypaige]

And did Harry rush about trying to speaking to them? I would say that in these times of Covid few of the RF went around trying to speak to other members outside their own household bubbles. I didn’t see any mass getting together of any of the extended family before, during or after the funeral.

Was Anne for example seen speaking to Camilla, Andrew or his daughters or either of the Wessexes to other family members? I think that all of them (especially the older ones and Anne IS seventy) for the most part stayed apart in their own family bubbles, due to regulations.

That's fair. I also think it's possible that the media is trying to read into things that may not be there. For instance, it seems that William and Harry didn't really look at each other as they went into the Chapel, didn't do so until they ended up talking. The newspapers said, for instance, reported how William pretty much looked straight ahead..... I mean, really? Maybe he was looking straight ahead because he was devastated and was trying to get a grip on his emotions. It could have been a number of things. Considering the brothers hadn't seen each other in a year and that obviously things aren't good between them, I wouldn't have expected them to try and catch each other's eyes like kids in a classroom who are acting up. Maybe they both wanted to wait. Maybe they were lost in their own thoughts. There's an obsession with William and Harry........did anyone ask if Charles and Harry looked at each other? Because that relationship is or has been shaky, apparently. No, they didn't...and I'm glad they didn't, but the point is they DID with the brothers. Well, assuming it's true that the three met for two hours today, they didn't have the prying eyes of reporters or photographers, and I think for them that's a good thing.

 

[Alison H]

Very little was seen of anyone speaking to anyone. They weren't going to be chatting in the funeral procession or during the service, and we didn't see that much of them afterwards, just a few shots of them walking back up the hill. We don't know who spoke to whom beforehand, or once they got back to the castle.

 

[Denville]

I think it is very unlikely that there were either rows OR close friendly relations restored at the funeral. They problaby chatted pleasantly, esp. if the cameras were on them.. and focused on mourning the Duke, paying their last respects to him and as far as they could comforting the queen. I'd say that Anne was at best polite to Harry..but for the queen's sake there would no rows or upsets.

 

[AC21091968]

Going back to the meeting between Charles, William and Harry, The Times has written an article on this. I'm not quite sure if The Times or The Telegraph got hold of the story first. I have not read The Telegraph article, because I do not have a subscription (I understand some of the posts have been moved to The Future of the British Monarchy thread). The Times article is relatively short and focus on Harry & Meghan not The Royal Family as a whole.

Prince Harry talks with father and brother
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-talks-to-clear-the-air-for-prince-harry-wlq8dwr25

Archived link to the full article: https://archive.ph/ZHu9k#selection-717.0-717.42

 

[Betsypaige]

The Sun has some more details regarding Charles, William and Harry chatting for 2 hours. It would be wonderful if Harry would stay for HM’s birthday...

A source said: “It is not known what was said behind closed doors and when the cameras were turned off, but it's unfathomable to think Megxit and Oprah did not come up.

“Harry and William appeared cordial as the cameras rolled and that seemed to pave the way for Charles to join them when everyone had left.”

Harry and William arrived at the Quadrangle together away from the TV cameras as the rest of the family chatted on the lawn.

Charles and Camilla, who had led the family on the walk back, strolled across the grass to speak to the princes.

....

The Duchess of Cornwall left by car without Charles at 5pm. But according to sources, the Prince of Wales and his sons stayed at the castle for an hour after Camilla departed.

Royal biographer Penny Junor said: “This was minutes after the funeral and they were all grieving in their own ways.

“There might have been some greetings. And even that is a positive start.

“There is a lot to be unravelled here. This is a falling-out that has gone on for a long time. They need the time, space and the trust.

“Harry should stay for the Queen’s birthday as it is the least he can do for his grandmother and it gives him even more opportunity to talk to his father and his brother.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14689387/prince-harry-reunited-william-charles-rift-healed-funeral/

 

[Denville]

Doubt if he'll stay. and I doubt if they discussed Oprah. its bound ot be contentious and Im srue they dont want arguments to mar their short time togehter...when they should still be focussing on Philp and the queen

 

[Betsypaige]

Going back to the meeting between Charles, William and Harry, The Times has written an article on this. I'm not quite sure if The Times or The Telegraph got hold of the story first. I have not read The Telegraph article, because I do not have a subscription (I understand some of the posts have been moved to The Future of the British Monarchy thread). The Times article is relatively short and focus on Harry & Meghan not The Royal Family as a whole.

Prince Harry talks with father and brother
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-talks-to-clear-the-air-for-prince-harry-wlq8dwr25

Archived link to the full article: https://archive.ph/ZHu9k#selection-717.0-717.42

The Sun has more details, which I posted below. I don’t think the Telegraph has had anything about this.

 

[Betsypaige]

Doubt if he'll stay. and I doubt if they discussed Oprah. its bound ot be contentious and Im srue they dont want arguments to mar their short time togehter...when they should still be focussing on Philp and the queen

No, this talk was very likely focused on their relationships, all three of them in varying combinations...as it should be. They can’t start healing until they talk - and an honest talk- so this is exactly what they needed as a start. Considering Harry said some things in the interview, I certainly believe ghat came up in conversation...and it needn’t have been contentious. IMO, there’s just a lot of miscommunication going on, and the only way to correct that is to....communicate.

I’m not going to argue about this with you, though. I’m very glad father and sons had a long talk...baby steps.

 

[Fem]

Meghan wasted her time letting it out then if nobody is interested.

I find it quite interesting that a number of posters are disappointed in Meghans action with regards announcing the wreath, imagine the different attitude if the information had came out a few days after the funeral with for example an article about various wreaths but noting the thoughtfulness in the choice of flowers in the Sussex wreath. I am sure we would have viewed it differently.
We would have been saying what a lovely thought, which is probably what Meghan thought she was going to hear.Timing is everything

It would be a completely different ball game if today or even tomorrow we would get an article with a closer look at the wreaths in the chapel (all/most of them). But this is not it.

While BP spokeperson decided not to comment on the other wreaths, stating that it is a private matter, the Sussexes (and while we might suspect which one of them, we can't be sure) decided to make it public just as the funeral was beginning. While the whole action was simply astonishing - and not in a positive way - the timing just made everything worse.

 

[tihkon2]

So inspite of whatever issues the Sussexes have with courtiers or even family members- they never stopped being a family and they never stopped caring.

I think for many people it's not an issue of if the Sussexes care. It's an issue of why the Duchess NEEDS to make everything public. Fans of hers are now saying "wreath-gate" isn't a big deal. But I'm not hearing of a sympathetic answer as to WHY they feel the Duchess HAD to make a press release about their wreath right at the start of Philip's funeral. What was her motivation? Did it help endear her to the family to release that to the public?

 

[Denville]

I think for many people it's not an issue of if the Sussexes care. It's an issue of why the Duchess NEEDS to make everything public. Fans of hers are now saying "wreath-gate" isn't a big deal. But I'm not hearing of a sympathetic answer as to WHY they feel the Duchess HAD to make a press release about their wreath right at the start of Philip's funeral. What was her motivation? Did it help endear her to the family to release that to the public?

Possibly, and this is just my guess, Meghan needs drama. She knew that the RF woudnt approve of her doing that, but she has to insert herself into things, and then gets upset if she gets criticised for it.It seems to me that she constantly stirs up drama, but instead of being hard edged about other people's reactions, seh gets upset and complains then that people are not being nice to her...

 

[US Royal Watcher]

And did Harry rush about trying to speaking to them? I would say that in these times of Covid few of the RF went around trying to speak to other members outside their own household bubbles. I didn’t see any mass getting together of any of the extended family before, during or after the funeral.

Was Anne for example seen speaking to Camilla, Andrew or his daughters or either of the Wessexes to other family members? I think that all of them (especially the older ones and Anne IS seventy) for the most part stayed apart in their own family bubbles, due to regulations.

That is true with respect to the public part of the ceremony but I believe it is not only possible but probable, that as the family lined up for the procession off camera, Anne and Edward acknowledged other members of the family but not Harry.

The family didn't just get out of their cars and take their places in absolute silence and without even looking at each other. In other words, I don't think that William and Harry only spoke in person for the first time after the service. I would be very surprised if Harry, William and Charles had not taken a few minutes to chat before the procession.

I doubt if they discussed the interview per se, even though it was the elephant in the room. The discussion probably included plans for Harry's travel for Diana's memorial. They may have also talked about the possibility of bringing the baby and Archie to visit the Queen when Meghan is able to travel, including whether the baby would be christened in the UK. They also probably discussed Prince Philip, the Queen, William's family - general family stuff.

 

[Denville]

T
The family didn't just get out of their cars and take their places in absolute silence and without even looking at each other. In other words, I don't think that William and Harry only spoke in person for the first time after the service. I would be very surprised if Harry, William and Charles had not taken a few minutes to chat before the procession.

I doubt if they discussed the interview per se, even though it was the elephant in the room. The discussion probably included plans for Harry's travel for Diana's memorial. They may have also talked about the possibility of bringing the baby and Archie to visit the Queen when Meghan is able to travel, including whether the baby would be christened in the UK. They also probably discussed Prince Philip, the Queen, William's family - general family stuff.

The RF is used ot putting up a front in public.. and in avoiding controversial topics in private, if necessary. Im sure they didn't want to get into the interview because feelings are WAY too raw.. and it will IMO be a long time before they can forgive and forget.. they probalby talked about the funeral, about Harry's trip, how big Archie's getting.. There are always things one can discuss that wont upset people...