The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[Durham]

https://wkow.com/2020/10/02/federal...-alleged-hate-crime-in-althea-bernstein-case/

This whole story never rang true for a lot of people. Echoes of the Joshua Smollett case. These sort of incidents do a real disservice to the true victims of crime.

I thought at the time that the duchess showed a real lack of judgement in her rush to involve herself.

 

[camelot23ca]

I don't agree. He is still one major accident away from the throne. So, I don't think it is right to both keep your succession rights AND make it your 'independent job' to advocate your personal and sometimes politically-charged views as much as possible to the largest audience possible; and even using your royal titles to do so.

Does anyone know if Harry can give up his succession rights? I think if he was not in the line of succession and they cut his few remaining official ties to the BRF then it would become much less problematic for him to involve himself in political issues. He’s already ceased to receive funds from The Duchy of Cornwall and he’s agreed not to use the HRH in his professional life.

More attention gets paid to the titles but, when it comes to someone wanting to involve themselves in political issues, especially those involving a foreign country’s electoral process, I would argue succession rights are a bigger deal. Right now Harry can be the Head of State of the UK. Taking away that possibility opens up a range of options - all that would be holding him back at that point would be his own interpretation of his promise to uphold the values of The Queen.

 

[Durham]

Does anyone know if Harry can give up his succession rights?

There's no process that I'm aware of.

Only parliament can alter the line of succession.

 

[Osipi]

There's no process that I'm aware of.

Only parliament can alter the line of succession.

Not only Parliament. If we go by the last change to the Succession to the Crown Act in 2011, this information is also relevant. "The biggest shakeup in the rules of royal succession in centuries is to be introduced after the leaders of the 16 Commonwealth nations where the Queen serves as head of state unanimously approved the changes."

So what I'm seeing is that what would be needed is:

1) Royal assent
2) Acceptance by Parliament
3) Acceptance by the 16 Commonwealth Nations that have the Queen as their
Head of State.

Not a simple thing to do from where I sit.

 

[Durham]

Not only Parliament. If we go by the last change to the Succession to the Crown Act in 2011, this information is also relevant. "The biggest shakeup in the rules of royal succession in centuries is to be introduced after the leaders of the 16 Commonwealth nations where the Queen serves as head of state unanimously approved the changes."

So what I'm seeing is that what would be needed is:

1) Royal assent
2) Acceptance by Parliament
3) Acceptance by the 16 Commonwealth Nations that have the Queen as their
Head of State.

Not a simple thing to do from where I sit.

No I agree it isn't. 1 always has to follow an act of parliament of course to become law. 3 is just a courtesy & is not required. It has nothing to do with the UK line of succession which can act as it likes unilaterally.

The other entirely separate realms can do whatever they want with their own lines of succession.

 

[Alison H]

Publicly funded bodies are supposed to be politically neutral, not to have any sort of agenda, whether that's right wing or left wing. I visited the Harriet Beecher Stowe house last year, with a tour group, and the guide sat us down and started firing politically-motivated questions at us and encouraging us to argue. We'd only met each other the day before, and it was very embarrassing. OK, that's not publicly funded, but it wasn't really what I was looking for from a visit to a museum. We were expecting some info about her life and works, not to be told to have an argument!


Going back to Harry, he's 36 years old. Nobody - not the Queen, Prince Charles, Meghan or anyone else - is responsible for what he says, other than himself. I wouldn't blame anyone else for what a grown man does.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Just because classism is an issue doesn’t mean that racism isn’t. Everyone should speak up and speak loudly about both issues. Harry and Meghan should and have the right to speak up. If they are going to speak, they should say something of substance. At this point, Harry does a very poor job of that, and despite her passion, Meghan isn’t really adding anything new to the conversation. For me, this means that their message creates a “so what” reaction. Of course it’s not up to me, but I can’t help but think that they should immerse themselves into one or two major philanthropic projects that are aligned with their views, work on them while maintaining a low personal profile, and then come back roaring once they have acquired a little bit of gravitas.

I agree with this - though I wouldn't say Meghan isn't adding anything - her contributions are more valuable as a biracial person herself as she has had her own experiences of racism from a black perspective.

 

[Sun Lion]

Poor Kate.

The Duchess of Cambridge's uncle has gone on record - both social media and mainstream - with his view of his niece's brother and sister-in-law.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oldsmith-brands-Harry-Meghan-two-muppets.html


And Katie Nicholl is reporting in Vanity Fair that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will not be travelling to the UK for Christmas - of course due to Covid, but also that the family rifts are still too raw for it.

 

[acdc1]

Poor Kate.

The Duchess of Cambridge's uncle has gone on record - both social media and mainstream - with his view of his niece's brother and sister-in-law.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oldsmith-brands-Harry-Meghan-two-muppets.html


And Katie Nicholl is reporting in Vanity Fair that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will not be travelling to the UK for Christmas - of course due to Covid, but also that the family rifts are still too raw for it.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I will be surprised if they spend any time of substance in the UK from here on out. Obviously they can’t travel with COVID but I truly wonder if they would have gone back even without it. There’s been major damage done to the familial relationships, I think it would be incredibly uncomfortable for everyone.

 

[AC21091968]

Poor Kate.

The Duchess of Cambridge's uncle has gone on record - both social media and mainstream - with his view of his niece's brother and sister-in-law.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oldsmith-brands-Harry-Meghan-two-muppets.html


And Katie Nicholl is reporting in Vanity Fair that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will not be travelling to the UK for Christmas - of course due to Covid, but also that the family rifts are still too raw for it.

I would not be surprised if some trolls (even some "Sussex Squad" members or Republicans) start attacking The Duchess of Cambridge, because of her uncle's behaviours, similar to the treatment Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie got because of Prince Andrew.

I agree with Katie Nicholl that there is little possibility for Harry, Meghan and Archie to return to UK for Christmas, not just because of COVID-19, but also family tension. At this point, I think time is the best healer, assuming there is no more strain and unresolved disagreement.

 

[Betsypaige]

Poor Kate.

The Duchess of Cambridge's uncle has gone on record - both social media and mainstream - with his view of his niece's brother and sister-in-law.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oldsmith-brands-Harry-Meghan-two-muppets.html


And Katie Nicholl is reporting in Vanity Fair that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will not be travelling to the UK for Christmas - of course due to Covid, but also that the family rifts are still too raw for it.

Do you have the link to the VF article? I can’t comment on it without reading it. I will say - from what I’ve read, Harry speaks to his father and HM quite often - I don’t think there’s a family rift.

 

[Sun Lion]

Do you have the link to the VF article? I can’t comment on it without reading it. I will say - from what I’ve read, Harry speaks to his father and HM quite often - I don’t think there’s a family rift.

Here's the link Betsypaige -

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/20...han-wont-be-spending-christmas-with-the-queen

 

[LauraS3514]

Does anyone know if Harry can give up his succession rights? I think if he was not in the line of succession and they cut his few remaining official ties to the BRF then it would become much less problematic for him to involve himself in political issues. He’s already ceased to receive funds from The Duchy of Cornwall and he’s agreed not to use the HRH in his professional life.

There is one unilateral thing Harry can do to remove himself from the line of succession: become a Roman Catholic. However, he has never seemed overly-religious and I don't see the RCC confirming him if the conversion is not sincere.

 

[Betsypaige]

Here's the link Betsypaige -

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/20...han-wont-be-spending-christmas-with-the-queen

Thanks! Well, that’s a shame that the brothers’ rift is that bad, but I suppose it’s for the best - now the rest of the family can be relaxed and have a wonderful holiday and H and M can do the same, without the pressure to fix things.

 

[AC21091968]

Here's the link Betsypaige -

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/20...han-wont-be-spending-christmas-with-the-queen

Thank you Sun Lion for the article, which primarily mentioned about Harry's relationship with Prince William and to some extent Prince Charles.

I do think Harry's relationship with Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie might also be strained. The main reason is that Meghan allegedly (according to the Sun) drop their names in a court case to prove that some members of the Royal family are able to work independently whilst holding a title. Beatrice and Eugenie of course were never working members of the royal family and don't use their title for businesses/advertisement. The other reason (which could be speculative) is that in Finding Freedom, Omid Scobie and Caroline Durand supposedly mentioned that Harry and Meghan were apparently very angry that The Duke of York, Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie leaked their relationship. Harry and Meghan have denied their involvement with Finding Freedom, but to have your names dragged in the book (similar like way The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have been portrayed), must have angered the York Princesses, especially if they did not leak the relationship themselves.

I think the Sussexes' relationship with the Wessex family, Princess Anne's family (including the Phillips and Tindalls) may not be positive either. At one point, Meghan's court case apparently (again, according to The Sun) mentioned that the Royal Family (Not sure if it's as an institution or just family members?) have been unsupportive of them. Mike Tindall and Sir Timothy Laurence at some point have mentioned that the Royal Family members have been very welcoming. I do think the Wessex family, Princess Anne's family (Phillips and Tindalls) might be upset by those accusations, given that they have tried their best to include Meghan into the fold. Of course, Meghan may have been accusing the courtiers and palace staffs.

At this point, I think it's not just tension between Harry & Meghan and William & Catherine, but rather Harry & Meghan and other members of the Royal Family (though I am not sure about the relationship with the Snowdons, Chattos, Gloucesters and Kents)

 

[angieuk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8799419/Duchess-Cambridge-Kates-uncle-Gary-Goldsmith-brands-Harry-Meghan-two-muppets.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8799947/British-royals-Read-REALLY-happened-closed-doors-Sandringham-summit.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8799867/British-Royals-hopping-mad-Meghan-Harrys-says-devastating-new-book.html

People at work absolutely loathe her.
I doubt even Harry understands what she's talking about; he's not that intellectual, and half the time he looks completely bewildered.
Airbrushed her own father out of her life. Duchess of Windsor was treated badly I think, but stayed dignified throughout her life. Meghan is angry at the whole world.

 

[Darius1]

Something unforgivable in Harry's recent comments is his inability to highlight the good things in the UK with regards to racial integration. He might have said that the country has come a long way in terms of diversity with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mayor of London, Secretary-General of the Commonwealth of Nations, to name but a few senior members of the Establishment are people from minority ethnic backgrounds. His wife was also welcomed into the Family.

Perhaps Harry should look to be more balanced in what he says and refrain from talking down the country that has given him everything from the day he was born. Perhaps he should leave his ivory tower mansion and put his shoulder to the wheel. Like so many so-called "celebrities" like his wife he has fallen into a pattern of uttering platitudes and soundbites to please a woke audience.

 

[Heavs]

There is one unilateral thing Harry can do to remove himself from the line of succession: become a Roman Catholic. However, he has never seemed overly-religious and I don't see the RCC confirming him if the conversion is not sincere.

I do remember seeing something about Harry being active in the Christian Union in the Army but that was only anecdotal and was on a much more "evangelical wing of the CofE" than anything RC. No idea how true it was or if it held up once he left the army.

But 1) They don't want to have anything to do with their royal status removed, and have complained about not being able to use DoS in their branding.

2) would probably just start a "poor him/them persecuted for religious beliefs" even though it would be a free choice and there was already a huge amount of talk about WHY they can't be RC in relation to the Monarch being head of the CofE (maybe even still if disestablishment were to happen) when the Succession to the Crown Act was being debated. They can still be Anglo-Catholic if they want.

3) Archie would still be in line until he was confirmed Catholic like the young Kents. I think.

 

[Denville]

Publicly funded bodies are supposed to be politically neutral, not to have any sort of agenda, whether that's right wing or left wing. I visited the Harriet Beecher Stowe house last year, with a tour group, and the guide sat us down and started firing politically-motivated questions at us and encouraging us to argue. We'd only met each other the day before, and it was very embarrassing. OK, that's not publicly funded, but it wasn't really what I was looking for from a visit to a museum. We were expecting some info about her life and works, not to be told to have an argument!


Going back to Harry, he's 36 years old. Nobody - not the Queen, Prince Charles, Meghan or anyone else - is responsible for what he says, other than himself. I wouldn't blame anyone else for what a grown man does.

Off topic a bit but re the Stowe house that sounds quite ridiculous. I'd be out the door like a shot....

 

[angieuk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Meghan-Markle-tackled-Sandringham-summit.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ts-Sussexes-decisions-Archies-godparents.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...-ready-return-UK-Christmas-source-claims.html

 

[AC21091968]

Something unforgivable in Harry's recent comments is his inability to highlight the good things in the UK with regards to racial integration. He might have said that the country has come a long way in terms of diversity with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mayor of London, Secretary-General of the Commonwealth of Nations, to name but a few senior members of the Establishment are people from minority ethnic backgrounds. His wife was also welcomed into the Family.

Perhaps Harry should look to be more balanced in what he says and refrain from talking down the country that has given him everything from the day he was born. Perhaps he should leave his ivory tower mansion and put his shoulder to the wheel. Like so many so-called "celebrities" like his wife he has fallen into a pattern of uttering platitudes and soundbites to please a woke audience.

I think there are two reasons why Harry's comments are "unbalanced" and perceived to be "talking down the country"

1. He has not done adequate level of research on the success of members of the BAME communities (particularly in public service and the Establishment) and some positive progress in racial integration. OR
2. He knows that there are successful members of the BAME community and progress have been made in "race relation", but choose not to mention it, because it will weaken his argument or even not suit his (as well as Meghan's) agenda

 

[AC21091968]

I do remember seeing something about Harry being active in the Christian Union in the Army but that was only anecdotal and was on a much more "evangelical wing of the CofE" than anything RC. No idea how true it was or if it held up once he left the army.

But 1) They don't want to have anything to do with their royal status removed, and have complained about not being able to use DoS in their branding.

2) would probably just start a "poor him/them persecuted for religious beliefs" even though it would be a free choice and there was already a huge amount of talk about WHY they can't be RC in relation to the Monarch being head of the CofE (maybe even still if disestablishment were to happen) when the Succession to the Crown Act was being debated. They can still be Anglo-Catholic if they want.

3) Archie would still be in line until he was confirmed Catholic like the young Kents. I think.

You are right about the Kents. Edward Windsor, Lord Downpatrick choose to be confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) in 2003 (age 15). His younger sister, Lady Marina Windsor also confirmed to the RCC in 2008. After their conversion, they forfeited their place in the line of succession. Lady Amelia Windsor (youngest child of George Windsor, Earl of St Andrews) has not converted, hence remain 39th in line of succession.

 

[Heavs]

I think there are two reasons why Harry's comments are "unbalanced" and perceived to be "talking down the country"

1. He has not done adequate level of research on the success of members of the BAME communities (particularly in public service and the Establishment) and some positive progress in racial integration. OR
2. He knows that there are successful members of the BAME community and progress have been made in "race relation", but choose not to mention it, because it will weaken his argument or even not suit his (as well as Meghan's) agenda

It's always easier to point your finger at something and say "bad!" or "good!" rather than "improving but still a way to go" or "nice try but missing the point". Etc.

If they highlighted someone like Priti Patel (Home Secretary most powerful woman in the country) that would be an admission that whilst the establishment is still has it's institutional problems and can be difficult to get into if you don't fit a mould (not just for POC) it is possible. It wouldn't fit their current talking points at all (and nor would PP fit in with their politics) and their "victims of a racist, sexist establishment that never gave us a chance" stance that plays well to their fans.

They rarely talk about understanding why the courtiers and other members of the royal family were against them becoming political royals whilst still being working members of the BRF and that's why they left. That a constitutional monarchy that aligns with one side or another publicly won't last long or the fact that even though Harry never voted he could call up Boris Johnson or whoever and the PM would take his calls. Just as Meghan calls up Democratic platforms and says the Duchess of Sussex wants to participate. Because of the unique position they hold in the UK, and the world essentially. All the while using that platform to bash the reason they have it. And wanting the perks.

 

[Betsypaige]

Thank you Sun Lion for the article, which primarily mentioned about Harry's relationship with Prince William and to some extent Prince Charles.

I do think Harry's relationship with Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie might also be strained. The main reason is that Meghan allegedly (according to the Sun) drop their names in a court case to prove that some members of the Royal family are able to work independently whilst holding a title. Beatrice and Eugenie of course were never working members of the royal family and don't use their title for businesses/advertisement. The other reason (which could be speculative) is that in Finding Freedom, Omid Scobie and Caroline Durand supposedly mentioned that Harry and Meghan were apparently very angry that The Duke of York, Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie leaked their relationship. Harry and Meghan have denied their involvement with Finding Freedom, but to have your names dragged in the book (similar like way The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have been portrayed), must have angered the York Princesses, especially if they did not leak the relationship themselves.

I think the Sussexes' relationship with the Wessex family, Princess Anne's family (including the Phillips and Tindalls) may not be positive either. At one point, Meghan's court case apparently (again, according to The Sun) mentioned that the Royal Family (Not sure if it's as an institution or just family members?) have been unsupportive of them. Mike Tindall and Sir Timothy Laurence at some point have mentioned that the Royal Family members have been very welcoming. I do think the Wessex family, Princess Anne's family (Phillips and Tindalls) might be upset by those accusations, given that they have tried their best to include Meghan into the fold. Of course, Meghan may have been accusing the courtiers and palace staffs.

At this point, I think it's not just tension between Harry & Meghan and William & Catherine, but rather Harry & Meghan and other members of the Royal Family (though I am not sure about the relationship with the Snowdons, Chattos, Gloucesters and Kents)

Good points - I’d forgotten about Meghan’s chutzpah in naming innocent Beatrice and Eugenie in her Court papers. IMO she’s a bull in a china shop...

 

[sophie25]

Good points - I’d forgotten about Meghan’s chutzpah in naming innocent Beatrice and Eugenie in her Court papers. IMO she’s a bull in a china shop...

I think Prince Michael was cited in the court papers too as a royal who worked commercially whilst being an HRH. It was really bad form to drag other family members into their mess who I'm sure wanted nothing to do with it.

 

[Alison H]

If they highlighted someone like Priti Patel (Home Secretary most powerful woman in the country) that would be an admission that whilst the establishment is still has it's institutional problems and can be difficult to get into if you don't fit a mould (not just for POC) it is possible. It wouldn't fit their current talking points at all (and nor would PP fit in with their politics) and their "victims of a racist, sexist establishment that never gave us a chance" stance that plays well to their fans.

Two of the four "great offices of state" - Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Home Secretary - are currently held by British Asians, with Priti Patel as Home Secretary and Rishi Sunak as Chancellor. Rishi Sunak was head boy of Winchester, one of the most exclusive schools in the country, so anyone who claims that public schools are racist is wide of the mark. And Dominic Raab, the Foreign Secretary, is the son of a refugee who fled the Nazis, so he's hardly from an "Establishment" background either. People conveniently forget all this when doing their anti-establishment bit!


I doubt they'd be returning for Christmas anyway. We're only allowed to meet up in groups of 6, so there are going to be very few family gatherings. And arrivals from the US have to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival anyway.

Gary Goldsmith is so embarrassing! OK, I think a lot of people agree with what he's said, but he still shouldn't be making comments like that to the press!

 

[Durham]

Two of the four "great offices of state" - Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Home Secretary - are currently held by British Asians, with Priti Patel as Home Secretary and Rishi Sunak as Chancellor. Rishi Sunak was head boy of Winchester, one of the most exclusive schools in the country, so anyone who claims that public schools are racist is wide of the mark. And Dominic Raab, the Foreign Secretary, is the son of a refugee who fled the Nazis, so he's hardly from an "Establishment" background either. People conveniently forget all this when doing their anti-establishment bit!

Gary Goldsmith is so embarrassing! OK, I think a lot of people agree with what he's said, but he still shouldn't be making comments like that to the press!

Very good points. Other previous comments the same. Unfortunately I don't think the duke thinks things through sometimes (if ever understood in the first place) & the duchess critiques British society from an American perspective that makes no sense for our country.

Goldsmith is as you suggest reflecting much public opinion. How on earth members of the royal family have left themselves open to this sort of criticism & ridicule I don't know. It's just so sad.

 

[REAL COUNTESS]

Wonder how his mother would see it all? I don't think she would be very pleased,with her younger son right now. He is really turning into an embarrassment. I would say he is in need of help hope he will get it, maybe this is a cry for help? He really needs to talk to a Professional and fast,before it is to late. Meghan is sure no help, to busy being Dss of Sussex.

 

[Osipi]

Wonder how his mother would see it all? I don't think she would be very pleased,with her younger son right now. He is really turning into an embarrassment. I would say he is in need of help hope he will get it, maybe this is a cry for help? He really needs to talk to a Professional and fast,before it is to late. Meghan is sure no help, to busy being Dss of Sussex.

And, for the other side of the coin, perhaps she'd even be proud of him for standing up on his own two feet and deciding for himself which way his life is going to go.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

There is one unilateral thing Harry can do to remove himself from the line of succession: become a Roman Catholic. However, he has never seemed overly-religious and I don't see the RCC confirming him if the conversion is not sincere.

No, there are two other unilateral actions by which he theoretically could remove himself from the line of succession.

1. Legally cease to be a Protestant Christian (I am not sure what the procedure would entail) and be automatically removed pursuant to the Bill of Rights and Act of Settlement.

2. Marry without the formal consent of the Queen (I suppose theoretically he could legally divorce and then legally remarry his wife for that purpose) and be automatically removed pursuant to the Succession to the Crown Act.

Obviously, the question is hypothetical as there is no indication that he wishes to remove himself from the line of succession.