Succession issues in the Royal Family of Jordan

[papillon]

I know for many Jordanians, their king was a larger than life hero, and rightly so for many reasons, but as I keep saying, he was man, not a plaster saint, and even the best of men have their Achilles heel.

This is the part that is difficult for me to understand, since I come from a country where the leaders are routinely ousted. Even the good ones are criticized and recognized as human and, thus, fallible. I don't know whether it's a good thing to place anyone on such a high pedestal, though I guess I can see why, if this is the only leader many people have ever known, he would seem like a god of sorts.

Maybe, with age, I have just lost my ability to find perfect heroes and heroines in our midst. Seems to me most people are both sinner and saint, though the best ones lean toward the latter.

 

[maryshawn]

Shelley,

Why DIDN'T Princess Muna stress the need to study/learn Arabic at an early age? Abdullah was the eldest son, clearly a possibility for the throne......I don't understand why--and this is unfair as I am saying it's Muna's responsbility--King Hussein and Princess Muna didn't realize the importance of this for the eldest son of a ruler of an Arabic country.......

Thank you,

Mary Shawn

I think it was too much of a contrast to hear Hassan's voice in excellent Arabic, and sounding very much like his brother as well. The king after much hard work can now read a prepared speech in Arabic fairly competently, but cannot speak off the cuff or take question and answers in Arabic, so the diffference would de too obvious. Crown prince Hamzah, who can speak Arabic, is also not heard live. I think they had to allow press coverage, because there was much agitation amongst the public that there was nothing about Hassan's activities in local papers but there is still nothing on radio and television. Why not pictures ? It had to fit into the myth that this was a traitor whose picture should not be allowed up. In Jerash apparantly they hung a huge portait of Hassan strung up along the main road. It was taken down about ten times and ten times the people of Jerash put it up again in slightly different spot until I suppose they finally got the message !

 

[maryshawn]

Gossip

Interesting observation by Leslie Bennetts in an article on QN and KH. Gossiping and saying bad things about the King is punishable by imprisonment or death. Thus, many criticize the King by using the Queen as the focal point.....nice role for the Queen to be in.......always the scapegoat. And, no, I'm not fond of Rania who must spend an inordinate amount of time adding to her couture wardrobe. When she first became Queen, an article observed she wore a simple outfit with just a plain gold wedding band. "She was well brought up; she is not ostentatious at all," said a family member. If Rania's not ostentatious, then what is???????

Shelley's definitely an expert at this. However, I can say that I spent some time in Jordan last summer, and I did hear locals grumble a bit about QR. Since it is an imprisonable offense to criticize the JRF in Jordan, I didn't attempt to ascertain the nature of their beefs against her. Just noted them with interest.

I, too, find QR's spending habits vulgar and her dismissiveness of criticism immature, self aggrandizing, and not terribly respectful of others. I guess the latter is just her way of not having to listen seriously to anything she finds disagreeable. Maybe if she did listen and care more, she would learn something and grow and evolve as a human being.

 

[maryshawn]

One last word about the letter. I had to re-read it a few times. I agree with Shelley. He was sick. The cancer was consuming him, as well as the chemicals......it was rambling, unclear at times......it just always struck me as NOT the kind of letter the healthy KH would have written.

 

[papillon]

Interesting observation by Leslie Bennetts in an article on QN and KH. Gossiping and saying bad things about the King is punishable by imprisonment or death. Thus, many criticize the King by using the Queen as the focal point.....nice role for the Queen to be in.......always the scapegoat.

Well, I think the same law covers all members of the JRF, not just the king, though it might be perceived as a more serious offense if the criticism involves the king.

Anyway, I heard unsolicited gripes about KA last summer, too. One young woman who worked in a retail store sidled up to me and asked what I thought of him. I was quite surprised, but said something truly benign, even though I DO have my opinions. She said she thought he was too inexperienced, wanted to give him time, but thought a mistake had been made. Shocked the heck out of me. . .would've loved to have poked and probed at that a bit, but not at the expense of my freedom or my life. But she did make me pause and wonder how prevalent her view might be and why she would risk her own freedom to cozy up to a stranger and spout off like that. She must have felt it strongly.

 

[shelley]

Shelley,

Why DIDN'T Princess Muna stress the need to study/learn Arabic at an early age? Abdullah was the eldest son, clearly a possibility for the throne......I don't understand why--and this is unfair as I am saying it's Muna's responsbility--King Hussein and Princess Muna didn't realize the importance of this for the eldest son of a ruler of an Arabic country.......

Thank you,

Mary Shawn

Abdullah and his brother Feisal were only 7 and 8 when they went to boarding school, and didn't return to Jordan to live until they were grown men. I don't know why neither the king or P. Muna made much of an effort with their children, maybe because it was never an option that A. would be king !!? By contrast, P. Hassan's children , the girls and P. Rashid, were always accompanied by a tutor when they went to boarding school ( as P. Hassan himself was throughout boarding school and indeed university), even though they went at an older age. I believe that the late king then availed himself of this facility and the tutors were also asked to teach P. Haya and P. Hamzah.

 

[Safaa Batin]

I didn't say it pure and simple jealousy. I agree that the late king led Jordan for many tricky years, and for at least two thirds of them, ably assisted and supported by his brother, who basically he loved deeply, certainly more than any son except perhaps Hamzah when he came along. Which is why for when people would bring up the succession issue he brushed them off harshly, even as late as August 1998. But he was a very ill man for the last few months of his life. And he was human. If anyone knew that occasionally there were even slightly ambvialant emotions towards his brother as he faced up to his own mortality, this was the time to exploit it, as people under the sort of treatment he was undergoing are very vulnerable, and it is known that they can end up beling hostile towards the people they love the most. This is an accepted medcial fact of chemotherapy. And the conflicting messages of that final letter bear out this ambivalance clearly, at least as far as I can see. I know for many Jordanians, their king was a larger than life hero, and rightly so for many reasons, but as I keep saying, he was man, not a plaster saint, and even the best of men have their Achilles heel.

I agree that through illness emotions have a big role, as if it was pure logical there were no choice better than prince hassan to be the new king. But i am still not convinced by the jealousy theory , may be it was emotions toward sons, he preferes to have his son as the coming king not his brother,may be queen Noor had an influence in order to give prince hamza the chance to be a king, may be other political reasons was there , but also I can't imagin that there were no Ameican hands to change prince hassan.
At the end may be many reasons both emotional and logical get together and make King Hussain take that decision. But we have to remember that this decision was unliked by most jordanians especially at the beginning, for sure K.hussain was aware of that, so if he was jealous and didnt want his brother to overshine him and want to keep his good image, he already lose credits in the people hearts and spoiled that image when he change the crown prince, so the main reason can not be how people will see him better or worse than p. hassan, i am sure there was a more serious reason.
Knowing that he was a man and not saint, and to many jordanians too he was not a life hero , and along his life he had his mistakes, but that does not change the fact that he was a very successful king wether we agreed or disagreed with him.

 

[shelley]

so the main reason can not be how people will see him better or worse than p. hassan, i am sure there was a more serious reason.
Knowing that he was a man and not saint, and to many jordanians too he was not a life hero , and along his life he had his mistakes, but that does not change the fact that he was a very successful king wether we agreed or disagreed with him.

I agree with everything you say. And I think that the jealousy factor was only a teensy weensy bit of the whole issue - what I think is that during his last illness, people who did not want to see P. Hassan as king, different people, for different reasons, perhaps, made common cause and worked on this angle to make the lies and insinuations about P. Hassan hit home. As I say, a dying man, and now we know that despite all the reassurances that we were given, he was a dying man when he came home, is especially vulnerable, and there are ways that things can be presented and slanted by people who know which buttons to press. It has to be people who knew him very well. I am sure there were plenty who said the same sort of thing when the king was well - in fact I know for a fact that they tried - but the basic affection and trust that the two brothers shared over-rode all these attempts. But if there was this even 2% of human frailty ( which even exists between fathers and sons ) it could be blown up or damped down. And there is no doubt that people like Battikhi and Ka'abneh exploited it for all it is worth. That they had plenty to hide is now clear. And other got onto the band wagon as well. I think what was done was despicable to a dying man. P. Hassan is well and has made his life again. The late king went to his grave probably heart-broken and greatly confused by everything that he was told. Do you remember what he told the PM and parliament about P. Hassan on the 9th January ? And then he was being buried on the 9th February. I would give my eyeteeth to know what was said and done to make him write that letter - especially after he and P. Hassan had such a warm and loving reunion.....perhaps too warm and loving for some, as it meant that all the scheming and lies back and forth from Mayo hadn't really worked. And of course K. Hussein was a hugely successful king. But that doesn't mean that P. Hassan could not have been an equally good one, perhaps in another way for another time. But you are not disagreeing with me about that as such. It is all so sad, especially for Jordan who needs and still misses this man's input.

 

[Safaa Batin]

absolutly agree shelley.
but what was told to parliament in 9 january, do you mean that known letter or something else, i do not remember the date. But that letter did not have a lot of datails and that what made and still make people not sure of the exact reason.

 

[tania]

What I so admire about Prince Hassan, and I am sure so many people feel the same, is the way he behaved so honourably after what happened. He was a true prince. Not once has he come out and said anything about his late brother or the present king. I remember seeing an interview with him once and when they asked him about King Abdullah he answered a long the lines of what do you want me to tell you, he is my King and my nephew. In this day and age, I think you will seldom find people of that calibre.

 

[shelley]

absolutly agree shelley.
but what was told to parliament in 9 january, do you mean that known letter or something else, i do not remember the date. But that letter did not have a lot of datails and that what made and still make people not sure of the exact reason.

On the 9th of January, after P. Hassan visited the late king in London, H.M. sent a message to the Prime Minister saying how proud he was of his brother, and the way in which he had shouldered his reponsibilities during the past few months etc etc and asked him to tell the people of Jordan that. I remember reading it in the papers then. Look in the archives of various Jordanian newspapers for that date. So what I mean is that when they met and talked any small differences they might have had were forgotten and they were that strong duo again that had served Jordan so long and so well. And perhaps this could not be alllowed to continue....so an ill man was put through an emotional wringer. Not nice.

 

[shelley]

What I so admire about Prince Hassan, and I am sure so many people feel the same, is the way he behaved so honourably after what happened. He was a true prince. Not once has he come out and said anything about his late brother or the present king. I remember seeing an interview with him once and when they asked him about King Abdullah he answered a long the lines of what do you want me to tell you, he is my King and my nephew. In this day and age, I think you will seldom find people of that calibre.

Which is why all the lies were so ridiculous. It would have been totally out of character for a man who was drop dead loyal and still is. The last ten or so years of his life the late king was away from Jordan for months at a time. If he had wanted to, there were ample opportunities for P. Hassan to take over the throne - look at Qatar and Oman. It has been done in recent history !

 

[papillon]

Which is why all the lies were so ridiculous. It would have been totally out of character for a man who was drop dead loyal and still is. The last ten or so years of his life the late king was away from Jordan for months at a time. If he had wanted to, there were ample opportunities for P. Hassan to take over the throne - look at Qatar and Oman. It has been done in recent history !

Even if one believed the lies at the time, it would be difficult to believe them at this point. Time has shown the true character of P. Hassan. He probably could've undermined the shaky beginnings of KA's rule, spouted off in interviews and other public forums any number of times about the unfairness of the succession, in general been a thorn in the side of KA, but he has done none of that. To the contrary, he has supported the leadership, refused to become ensnared in leading questions by reporters, been loyal to his country and to his family. This casts great doubt, for me, on the veracity of the stories coming out of Jordan at the time of KH's death.

 

[shelley]

Even if one believed the lies at the time, it would be difficult to believe them at this point. Time has shown the true character of P. Hassan. He probably could've undermined the shaky beginnings of KA's rule, spouted off in interviews and other public forums any number of times about the unfairness of the succession, in general been a thorn in the side of KA, but he has done none of that. To the contrary, he has supported the leadership, refused to become ensnared in leading questions by reporters, been loyal to his country and to his family. This casts great doubt, for me, on the veracity of the stories coming out of Jordan at the time of KH's death.

Thank you ! I rest my case .....

 

[Josefine]

Sucession Of The Jordanian Throne is it written down as a law?

 

[Safaa Batin]

Sucession Of The Jordanian Throne is it written down as a law?

yes it is in the contitution.

 

[shy]

Who Is The Next Cp?

Who do you think the next CP of jordan will be? We know that Prince Hussien will eventually become his dad's successor, but until then the kingdom is in need of a CP. I personally think that KA has arranged his visit to the states just in time to dicuss his choice with the US authorities and by the time he gets back, we will probably hear his announcement.
I think he will probably choose Prince Faisal, what do you think? (i hope so we get to see what Princess Alia has in store for us and how she will represent Jordan abroad!!!)

 

[kinneret5764]

I think KA will appoint P Faisal as regent until P Hussein comes of age. Or he has already created a regency council to prevent any one member of the family from staling the throne from P. Hussein.

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

I think KA will appoint P Faisal as regent until P Hussein comes of age. Or he has already created a regency council to prevent any one member of the family from staling the throne from P. Hussein.

Or maybe Queen Rania as regent until P hussien comes of age?(it is possible isn't it?)

 

[Guess Who]

prince Hussein and they would asign him advisors just like what his grandfather had.The late king Hussein had advisors cause he was so young when he was a king.So i guess the same would happen.

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

prince Hussein and they would asign him advisors just like what his grandfather had.The late king Hussein had advisors cause he was so young when he was a king.So i guess the same would happen.

we know that but QR can be his advisor (ITs Wasi in Arabic,can anyone pls transelate?)

 

[Guess Who]

we know that but QR can be his advisor (ITs Wasi in Arabic,can anyone pls transelate?)

Well when i said advisor i was talking about anyone and to that QR as well.She might of been waiting so badly for this day.Im arabic so i know what wasni is.

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

Well when i said advisor i was talking about anyone and to that QR as well.She might of been waiting so badly for this day.Im arabic so i know what wasni is.

LOL Elhamdullah,Iwas embarrassed cuz i cudn't find the word in english,my english sucks sorry

 

[Vicomtesse]

Obviously the next Crown Prince of Jordan is going to be the King's son.
I don't think the King would remove one brother from the position to put another brother as Crown Prince.
This situation is rather shallow and obvious isn't it? The King removed his own brother as Crown Prince of Jordan to move his son into the position.

 

[Balqis]

King Abdullah has clarified the new situation quite clearly in his latest interview with CNN:

CNN's Wolf Blitzer: And your son is now effectively the crown prince?

KING ABDULLAH: No. He is only 10 years old. And the way that the system has been done is that the role of crown prince will not be filled.
Depending on circumstances, if anything should happen, there are
instructions and there's a system in place, where the most capable of
my brothers will be the one who is responsible to continue the
process.


There is no CP at the moment. I do not know what this "system" that's in place entails but I am sure it's been carefully specified if anything were to happen to King Abdullah.

 

[cut1me]

Who do you think the next CP of jordan will be? We know that Prince Hussien will eventually become his dad's successor, but until then the kingdom is in need of a CP. I personally think that KA has arranged his visit to the states just in time to dicuss his choice with the US authorities and by the time he gets back, we will probably hear his announcement.
I think he will probably choose Prince Faisal, what do you think? (i hope so we get to see what Princess Alia has in store for us and how she will represent Jordan abroad!!!)

i think he will choose his brother faisal,

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

i think he will choose his brother faisal,

I doubt it...He's smarter than replacing Hamzah "his half bro" with faisal"his full bro"...Politics are more complicated than that...Let's wait and see I feel smthin unexpected is gonna happen.

 

[Zara04]

I think he will have his son eventually become crown prince. I was originally (falsely?) under the impression that KA would have gladly given up being King when Hamza was ready to assume the role, but maybe QR (who I do admire for the charitable work she does) won't let him.......

 

[Zara04]

I don't think he will name a new crown prince until Hussein is old enough...maybe 18.

 

[MoonlightRhapsody]

Officially Hussein is the crown prince de facto. Should Abdullah die, Hussein automatically is king.

Unofficially, there is no one currently who holds the title Crown Prince.