State Visit from The King and Queen of The Netherlands: October 23-24, 2018

[WillVictoria]

At this point Kate should have a Royal Family Order.

One theory I've seen about why Kate doesn't have a family order (or at least HMs) is that the Queen's family order (with her picture on it) is produced on ivory which William is vehemently against.

Unless Kate gets a specially made ivory free order I think the status quo, where Kate doesn't have a family order but still gets sentimental jewelry loans like the Queen's wedding gift bracelet to show it isn't a snub, holds until the family order becomes ivory free (likely under Charles or William).

 

[Katymcwaity]

It does seem a glaring omission when you look at all the orders WA has got and even a little rude esp if the Brits are already have some.

Anyway v excited re the visit. Might get myself to the big smoke for the occasion

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Any chance of the king being overly generous and giving Princess Michael of Kent her 1st royal order

It is unlikely. The circle seems limited to children of a (future) King. The Earl and Countess of Athlone, full cousine to Queen Wilhelmina had no Dutch Order, I believe.

But George, Elizabeth, Elizabeth II, Philip, Margaret, Charles, Diana, Anne are (were) all sons or daughters of a (future) monarch (or spouses to) and did participate in State Visits.

In Norway, Spain, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg all the children of the monarch whom participated in the State Visit by the Dutch monarch have a Dutch Order. Even Ari Behn (but no Grand-Cross for him: he was made a Commander).

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

IMO, some traditions should be broken and giving an order to the male consort but not female ones is one of them. Absolutely out of date, but then again, the Queen is IMO (for the most part, please don't pelt me with a history lesson) loathed to change things unless she is forced to so there is that.

No, but I must admit that it's very tempting.

Because she is actually known (also among most British commentators) to be a VERY MODERN monarch who have changed with the times. - So perhaps you should take a look at the post below, or do a bit of research on her:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/the-monarchy-after-elizabeth-ii-11874-26.html#post2079091

So why the british Queen, and only she, sticks stubbornly to this outdated concept of male preference without any substance to it, is beyond me!

The Queen is a 92-year-old lady whos been on the throne since 1952, so we cannot expect her to be up to date on everything, can we?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It does seem a glaring omission when you look at all the orders WA has got and even a little rude esp if the Brits are already have some.

Anyway v excited re the visit. Might get myself to the big smoke for the occasion

Beatrix got the Royal Victorian Order in 1954, the Royal Victorian Chain in 1982 and finally the Order of the Garter in 1989.

It would surprise me when the King gets the Garter. I expect the Royal Victorian Order first.

 

[Rudolph]

The king will receive the Garter on this visit. He’s the head of state of a traditional British allied country.

 

[sophie25]

It is unlikely. The circle seems limited to children of a (future) King. The Earl and Countess of Athlone, full cousine to Queen Wilhelmina had no Dutch Order, I believe.

But George, Elizabeth, Elizabeth II, Philip, Margaret, Charles, Diana, Anne are (were) all sons or daughters of a (future) monarch (or spouses to) and did participate in State Visits.

In Norway, Spain, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg all the children of the monarch whom participated in the State Visit by the Dutch monarch have a Dutch Order. Even Ari Behn (but no Grand-Cross for him: he was made a Commander).

Princess Alexandra of Kent has a Dutch Order but I don't know why she got it.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Princess Alexandra of Kent has a Dutch Order but I don't know why she got it.

Princess Alexandra was an official witness to Princess Beatrix for her wedding in 1966. Queen Beatrix bestowed the House of Orange Order to her in 1982. I think that is sweet. She has not forgotten her dear old bridal staff.

 

[Katymcwaity]

Beatrix got the Royal Victorian Order in 1954, the Royal Victorian Chain in 1982 and finally the Order of the Garter in 1986.

It would surprise me when the King gets the Garter. I expect the Royal Victorian Order first.

It might well be William V granting the Garter if they go at the same pace!

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The king will receive the Garter on this visit. He’s the head of state of a traditional British allied country.

That is no automatism. Queen Beatrix got the Garter in 1989. Years after her State Visit in 1982.

 

[Rudolph]

That is no automatism. Queen Beatrix got the Garter in 1989. Years after her State Visit in 1982.

But I’m willing to eat my hat if the king doesn’t receive the Garter. Felipe received his order last year and I’m will to wager anything W-A receives his order this year.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Diana's own handwriting:

https://archief.paleishetloo.nl/wp-...der-Huisorden-Den-Haag.-Foto-Tom-Haartsen.jpg

And wearing it:

https://archief.paleishetloo.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Afbeelding-1.jpg

 

[JR76]

Diana's own handwriting:

https://archief.paleishetloo.nl/wp-...der-Huisorden-Den-Haag.-Foto-Tom-Haartsen.jpg

And wearing it:

https://archief.paleishetloo.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Afbeelding-1.jpg

I love the piece of tape. Like the rubber band holding Queen Elizabeth's kokoshnik together it shows that they're just like the rest of us and make do with anything that's practical and at hand.

 

[Mbruno]

prefer when it comes to orders!
So why the british Queen, and only she, sticks stubbornly to this outdated concept of male preference without any substance to it, is beyond me!

There are actually two ways to see it. On one hand, you may think that the Queen is showing "male preference" when she decorates male consorts, but doesn't hand out orders to female ones. However, from another point of view, you may argue that, on the contrary, the Queen, by doing that, is actually compensating male consorts for the gender discrimination they suffer as mere HRHs who are lower in status than their wives, in contrast to the (equal) HM status of queen consorts. Having experienced that asymmetry herself as a reigning monarch and Prince Philip's wife, the Queen is probably sensitive to that issue,




It is interesting that, in the past, when many orders of knighthood could be awarded to males only, consorts of reigning queens often accepted orders that, otherwise, would normally be given to their wives. That was the justification for example for the Spanish regency under the minority of Isabella II to award the Order of the Golden Fleece to Prince Albert, who was actually serving de facto as a proxy for Queen Victoria.



https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/441170/badge-of-the-order-of-the-golden-fleece

 

[Somebody]

According to your predictions, it looks like King Willem-Alexander is very generous in giving out orders !

I am not so sure that the Duke of York or the Wessexes will be decorated, but I agree with your other predictions.

The Dutch are indeed typically very generous (royaal in Dutch). A clear example is Ari Behn's Dutch order when he didn't have a Norwegian one. Quite a contrast with the British, so it will be interesting to see how that will play into his decision.

For clarification for those interested in orders, the house order of Orange includes several orders among which two that include a grand cross distinction: one for nationals (to be seen on Laurentien at Prinsjesdag each year) and the crown order for foreigners (the king's go-to when not awarding the Dutch Lion, the former queen mostly used the Order of Orange-Nassau for less senior members of toyal families on statevisits). Furthermore, it includes 'crosses' and 'medals'.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Dutch are indeed typically very generous (royaal in Dutch). A clear example is Ari Behn's Dutch order when he didn't have a Norwegian one. Quite a contrast with the British, so it will be interesting to see how that will play into his decision.

For clarification for those interested in orders, the house order of Orange includes several orders among which two that include a grand cross distinction: one for nationals (to be seen on Laurentien at Prinsjesdag each year) and the crown order for foreigners (the king's go-to when not awarding the Dutch Lion, the former queen mostly used the Order of Orange-Nassau for less senior members of toyal families on statevisits). Furthermore, it includes 'crosses' and 'medals'.

The heirs always got the Orde van Oranje-Nassau.
Other royals de Huisorde.

The only exception I can remember was the Infanta Doña Elena and the Infanta Doña Cristina. And Jordan royals. They got the honour which is usually given to heirs.

For an example Prince Laurent and Princess Claire got the Huisorde. The same to Prince Joachim and Princess Marie. Why the Infantas and the Jordans got a higher Order? Good question...

Diana got the Huisorde while she ranked as a heir, but I think Queen Beatrix felt she had to make the loophole via the Huisorde because of the British policy regarding female spouses (no reciprocity in state honours).

https://www.anp-archief.nl/image/20...f9663b29f23992441b626139ba8942a75ff2610c).jpg

https://www.who2.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/rainiaalabdullah-16-730x485.jpg

 

[Mary-Rose]

But I’m willing to eat my hat if the king doesn’t receive the Garter. Felipe received his order last year and I’m will to wager anything W-A receives his order this year.

King Felipe already received the Royal Victorian Order in 1988 and the Order of the Garter 2017
King juan Carlos received the Royal Victorian Chain in 1986 and the Order of the Garter 1988. WA has no British order yet so I dont think WA receive the Order of the Garter during this State Visit

 

[Mary-Rose]

I think Duchess Camilla and Prince William will receive the Dutch "House order". Diana received this order so i guess Camilla will receive it too. Diana received no spanish order in 1986 and the same for Camilla 2017

 

[Rudolph]

King Felipe already received the Royal Victorian Order in 1988 and the Order of the Garter 2017
King juan Carlos received the Royal Victorian Chain in 1986 and the Order of the Garter 1988. WA has no British order yet so I dont think WA receive the Order of the Garter during this State Visit

Felipe received the RVO as heir. The first visit as king he was granted the Garter.

W-A will most definitely receive the Garter on his state visit imo. There’s no way HMQ will bestow a ‘lesser’ order on a King of The Netherlands.

 

[tommy100]

I suspect the garter will be given but maybe a high level RVO may be fiven, does QE2 still give out the victorian chain?

Hope theres a full in carriage proccession and can’t wait to see what Max pulls out bag!

 

[Mary-Rose]

Felipe received the RVO as heir. The first visit as king he was granted the Garter.

W-A will most definitely receive the Garter on his state visit imo. There’s no way HMQ will bestow a ‘lesser’ order on a King of The Netherlands.

Yes he was the CP at this time. i just would like to say, I dont think she will give the highest at the first state visit with WA. Also King CG of sweden and King Harald, Queen/Princess Beatrix received the Order of the Garter NOT at the first State visit just at the return state visit or the third state visit. I think everyone who received the Order of the garter already received a lower order. We will see in october

 

[wbenson]

I think I lean toward the King getting the Garter. For a long time, her norm for European monarchs was the Royal Victorian Chain on the first visit, and the Garter on the second, but she skipped the Royal Victorian Chain with King Felipe. My uninformed guess is that perhaps she's expecting that, with her limited travel, the opportunity for a return visit won't arise any time soon.

 

[Somebody]

I think I lean toward the King getting the Garter. For a long time, her norm for European monarchs was the Royal Victorian Chain on the first visit, and the Garter on the second, but she skipped the Royal Victorian Chain with King Felipe. My uninformed guess is that perhaps she's expecting that, with her limited travel, the opportunity for a return visit won't arise any time soon.

The Garter would be nice but I don't like the idea that Máxima is left out - especially given that the Dutch will most likely hand out several orders.

Nonetheless, it's quite likely that at some point a "return" visit (by king Charles) will take place - and their might even be state visits between the countries when William is king, so it's most likely not Willem-Alexander's only chance of receiving the Garter.

 

[wartenberg7]

There are actually two ways to see it. On one hand, you may think that the Queen is showing "male preference" when she decorates male consorts, but doesn't hand out orders to female ones. However, from another point of view, you may argue that, on the contrary, the Queen, by doing that, is actually compensating male consorts for the gender discrimination they suffer as mere HRHs who are lower in status than their wives, in contrast to the (equal) HM status of queen consorts. Having experienced that asymmetry herself as a reigning monarch and Prince Philip's wife, the Queen is probably sensitive to that issue,




It is interesting that, in the past, when many orders of knighthood could be awarded to males only, consorts of reigning queens often accepted orders that, otherwise, would normally be given to their wives. That was the justification for example for the Spanish regency under the minority of Isabella II to award the Order of the Golden Fleece to Prince Albert, who was actually serving de facto as a proxy for Queen Victoria.

Well, we´re talking about orders here, not titles. And Philip has generally always received the highest of foreign orders from abroad!


Talking about Pr Albert, his proxy role was purely unofficial. There was no constitutional legitimation to it! I guess this would be highly controversial today.

So, if this was really the reason for the spanish Queen to grand him the Golden Fleece we don´ t know.

 

[Zaira]

No, but I must admit that it's very tempting.

Because she is actually known (also among most British commentators) to be a VERY MODERN monarch who have changed with the times. - So perhaps you should take a look at the post below, or do a bit of research on her:
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/the-monarchy-after-elizabeth-ii-11874-26.html#post2079091


The Queen is a 92-year-old lady whos been on the throne since 1952, so we cannot expect her to be up to date on everything, can we?

Yes, I have actually read most noted bios on the Queen and many other sources because I am not someone who makes statements without having done my research. And I stand by my opinion. Thanks.

The Garter would be nice but I don't like the idea that Máxima is left out - especially given that the Dutch will most likely hand out several orders.

Nonetheless, it's quite likely that at some point a "return" visit (by king Charles) will take place - and their might even be state visits between the countries when William is king, so it's most likely not Willem-Alexander's only chance of receiving the Garter.

I would not be surprised if WA receives the Garter, but on the other hand I do not think Felipe receiving it on his first (state) visit makes it automatic that WA will on his first state visit as King. I can see that being more for Charles' reign, as you said.

My prediction is that WA will not receive the Garter, actually.

 

[Osipi]

It is my guess that WA will receive the garter. For me, the order is quite fitting for a visiting monarch because, as we know, those foreign royals that do receive the Order of the Garter fall into a specific category known as "Stranger Knights and Ladies Companion". They are not a part of the grouping that actually makes up the 24 Knights and Ladies Companion of the Garter. Even the members of the royal family that hold the Order of the Garter are in their own specific category as Royal Knights and Ladies Companion.

That's my thinking anyways.

I suspect the garter will be given but maybe a high level RVO may be fiven, does QE2 still give out the victorian chain?

Hope theres a full in carriage proccession and can’t wait to see what Max pulls out bag!

To my knowledge, the Royal Victorian Chain isn't given out that often. In fact, Prince Philip is the only living member of the royal family to have been given the chain.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is my guess that WA will receive the garter. For me, the order is quite fitting for a visiting monarch because, as we know, those foreign royals that do receive the Order of the Garter fall into a specific category known as "Stranger Knights and Ladies Companion". They are not a part of the grouping that actually makes up the 24 Knights and Ladies Companion of the Garter. Even the members of the royal family that hold the Order of the Garter are in their own specific category as Royal Knights and Ladies Companion.

That's my thinking anyways.



To my knowledge, the Royal Victorian Chain isn't given out that often. In fact, Prince Philip is the only living member of the royal family to have been given the chain.

Queen Beatrix with the Royal Victorian Order ánd the Royal Victorian Chain: picture. In the background Charles, Diana and Margaret with Dutch Orders.

My guess is that the King will be given the Royal Victorian Order first and made a Knight of the Garter later on.

 

[Osipi]

Queen Beatrix with the Royal Victorian Order ánd the Royal Victorian Chain: picture.

My guess is that the King will be given the Royal Victorian Order first and made a Knight of the Garter later on.

Perhaps I should have clarified my sentence better. Philip is the only living member of the British royal family that has the chain.

Now all of this is just adding on to more and more reasons why this state visit is something to look forward to.

 

[An Ard Ri]

A little over 3 months away and one of the most anticipated State Visits given the amount of posts ,I wonder if the State Banquet will be at Buckingham Palace or at Windsor Castle?

 

[Osipi]

A little over 3 months away and one of the most anticipated State Visits given the amount of posts ,I wonder if the State Banquet will be at Buckingham Palace or at Windsor Castle?

If its in October, my guess would be that it'll be held at Buckingham Palace. More regal and the "main house" of the British monarchy to welcome the King and Queen of the Netherlands.