State Visit from The King and Queen of The Netherlands: October 23-24, 2018

[PetticoatLane]

Another complete waste of money, time and effort. Who on earth decides which countries to invite on a state visit and when they should be held? Totally brainless numbskulls?

This visit is completely and utterly POINTLESS. The UK should be widening its horizons to the vast majority of the planet not inside the EU and willing and able to make trade deals with us. Even if this were relevant to the negotiations which should have concluded at that point, in reality the Dutch have very little real power within the EU. Some here mention trade, but we've been told the EU won't want to trade with us after we leave so why bother trying?

This visit will have the same benefit to the actual citizens of the UK as the Spanish - zero, none, zip, nada. It's time for a complete change of emphasis and of policy when it comes to these visits. For the visit of actual decision makers - go all the way. With the visit of powerless "figureheads" these things must be slimmed down massively. Absolutely no problem with reciprocal arrangements when British royals go abroad. A visit like this will do absolutely nothing for the Dutch also.

I understand it's the government who decide who gets invited, but the Queen will have a massive input on the scale and ultimately the expense. Time for her to show her leadership on this. There has to be more to the monarchy than looking at sparkly tiaras and wondering which royal is wearing the ribbon of some exclusive club the rest of us have never heard of. Time to prove their relevance to a post-EU UK.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I wouldn't expect Queen Maxima to receive any British orders but perhaps the King might and the Dutch might hand out a few too as per the example of Queen Beatrix back in 1982.

 

[Rudolph]

The king will receive the Order of the Garter. Just like Felipe did.

 

[Marengo]

The late prince Claus still received the Victorian order. The late prince Bernhard received the order of Bath. But it seems that things have changed as Queen Letizia did not receive an order last year.

 

[An Ard Ri]

If the Duchess of Cambridge is present she might receive her 1st Royal Order as the Princess of Wales did in 1982.

 

[Mbruno]

During the king's reign these state visits are usually accompanied by economic missions. I am not sure if that will be the case here as there is a lot of uncertainty about our future relations. The only thing we know is that they will be more distant than they are now.

The Netherlands have trade and economic relations with several countries outside the EU (China, India, the United States, Canada, etc.). Why should it stop trading with the UK just because the UK is leaving the single market and the customs union ?



I think you are being overly gullible about Juncker and Barnier's nonsensical rhetoric.

 

[wartenberg7]

Another complete waste of money, time and effort. Who on earth decides which countries to invite on a state visit and when they should be held? Totally brainless numbskulls?

This visit is completely and utterly POINTLESS. The UK should be widening its horizons to the vast majority of the planet not inside the EU and willing and able to make trade deals with us. Even if this were relevant to the negotiations which should have concluded at that point, in reality the Dutch have very little real power within the EU. Some here mention trade, but we've been told the EU won't want to trade with us after we leave so why bother trying?

This visit will have the same benefit to the actual citizens of the UK as the Spanish - zero, none, zip, nada. It's time for a complete change of emphasis and of policy when it comes to these visits. For the visit of actual decision makers - go all the way. With the visit of powerless "figureheads" these things must be slimmed down massively. Absolutely no problem with reciprocal arrangements when British royals go abroad. A visit like this will do absolutely nothing for the Dutch also.

I understand it's the government who decide who gets invited, but the Queen will have a massive input on the scale and ultimately the expense. Time for her to show her leadership on this. There has to be more to the monarchy than looking at sparkly tiaras and wondering which royal is wearing the ribbon of some exclusive club the rest of us have never heard of. Time to prove their relevance to a post-EU UK.

So, you wanne abolish state visits (and, other than working or official visits, they include some extent of ceremonial - no matter in a republic or a monarchy) alltoghether?!
You cannot say these visits do anything; the visiting head of state, no matter president or monarch, always brings a big entourage of economy people , businessmen and entrepreneurs - not to forget the foreign minister/ foreign secretary of state, along with him/ her meeting with their counterparts from the other country, making deals, which do have an effect on many people´s lives which one normally just does not realise in our normal daily lives.

All the grandeur and pomp on display we see on these visits, and we have much, much less these days than we still used to have about 15, 20 years ago, are gestures of friendship, a bond between two nations and sometimes even reconciliation.

A, in germany still famous example, is the Queen´ s 1st state visit to Germany in 1965 and it lasted about 2 weeks! I had such a huge impact on post war germany it is pretty often discussed even today.

The 2 heads of state, who stand symbolically as "stand-ins" for all the citizens of their respective countries, meet on a level of the most pestigious and highest diplomatic level. It is a mark of respect towards the guest to put out all your finery, to dress up as best as you can, to really make an effort and, on the other hand, as a guest to return the favour some day.

I think just BECAUSE the UK left the EU, visits on the highest level (and the political actors behind closed doors) between Britain and european countries have again become even more imortant than some years ago!

 

[tommy100]

Delighted to hear WA and Maxima are heading this way on State Visit! It is short, most state visits are usually 3 days but in fairness they still fit in most of the important set piece events such as the State Banquet and possibly even the Guildhall -they may just fly back out straight after, who knows!

Personally I just hope Maxima brings out the big gun tiara, hopefully the Lux state visit was just a teaser!

 

[Marengo]

I think you are being overly gullible about Juncker and Barnier's nonsensical rhetoric.

Perhaps we can refrain from insulting the other side of the debate. Otherwise it is tempting for others to be less civil too.

I will not elaborate on the rest of the message as it will veer too much off topic. Obviously we will still be trading in the future, just on what terms remains unclear.

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The King and Queen will be accompanied by the minister of Foreign Affairs, Stef Blok - as usual for these visits.

Queen Beatrix arrived in London with a ship of the Dutch navy, which looked wonderful. But I don't think this has happened in the UK (or The Netherlands) in recent years.

 

[tommy100]

In 2005 for an official visit as part of the Norwegian Centenary Celebrations the RF arrived on the Royal Yacht Norge on the Thames. But somehow I doubt the Dutch monarch will do that, not when they have just bought a new airplane for events such as this.

 

[Princess Larisa]

The late prince Claus still received the Victorian order. The late prince Bernhard received the order of Bath. But it seems that things have changed as Queen Letizia did not receive an order last year.

Nothing has changed. The Queen has always given orders to MALE consorts and nothing to the female consorts.

 

[Mbruno]

Nothing has changed. The Queen has always given orders to MALE consorts and nothing to the female consorts.

Exactly. Both Prince Claus and Prince Henrik received orders from Queen Elizabeth II, but she has never giiven a British order to to a foreign queen consort.


I wonder why she does that.

 

[Marengo]

Perhaps a tradition inherited from previous reigns?

Though Prince Bernhard received his order only in 1958, so during Queen Elizabeth's state visit to the Netherlands, and not during Juliana's state visit to George VI.

Prince Hendrik (of The Netherlands) received the order of Bath in 1907 from Edward VII. Not during a state visit (there were none from or to the UK in the years he was a prince consort) but for his role during the shipping disaster in Hook of Holland, where the British steam ferry SS Berlin - from Harwich - broke in two on the pier & 128 people drowned. Prince Hendrik -with top hat and white gloves- was on a boat that saved 11 people from the wreck. The prince was praised for his 'heroism' and ended up on the front pages of the (inter)national newspapers. It was a marking point in an otherwise sad life.

Non-related Queen consorts apparently did not receive orders, f.e. Queen Elisabeth of the Belgians only received an order of the British red cross and not a royal order, while she did accompany her husband -who had the Garter and the Bath orders- on a state visit to the UK. The same goes for Queen Elena of Italy, who did not receive a British order while her husband did. (Closely) related Queen consorts such as Marie of Romania and the Empress Alexandra received the order of Victoria and Albert.

 

[Dman]

Exactly. Both Prince Claus and Prince Henrik received orders from Queen Elizabeth II, but she has never giiven a British order to to a foreign queen consort.


I wonder why she does that.

I have no idea and it’s rather strange. I think she may be following some precedence.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The late Prince Henrik of Denmark had 3 British Orders!

Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath
Knight Grand Cross of the Order of St Michael and St George
Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order

 

[Princess Larisa]

I wonder why she does that.

No one knows why.
I just assumed that this was how her father did things and she continued when becoming Queen so young. By the time things became more egalitarian in society she probably didn’t want to change things. Will be interesting how Charles does things, since apparently Camilla didn’t get a Spanish Order because of this.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Ouch! This is a very rude headline IMO.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...xander-queen-maxima-netherlands-meghan-markle

No surprise from the Express. It is the worst of all tabloids.

TRUE.. and in a VERY 'competitive field'...

Don't tell me about it.

Although known as the ''Daily Diana'' during the 1990s/2000s (due to all their ridiculous stories/front pages about her), the Express was actually VERY pro-Queen and pro-monarchy - and even quite serious in their royal coverage from 2006 to 2013.
Both the paper/online versions had an almost over-exaggerated coverage of the Queen's 80th Birthday in 2006 and the Diamond Jubilee in 2012, where she was praised like no other (the only newspaper who beat them in coverage/praising was the Telegraph, the most pro-monarchy newspaper in the UK).

So what happened? Well, when William came under criticism from the media for ''not wanting to be a full time working royal'' in 2013 and for the expensive renovations of apartment A1 in 2014, the Express found out that such kind of stories makes more people click on the articles, so they changed their royal covering style.
And when William was criticized for only working 80 hours a month as an air ambulance pilot in early 2016 - and was called workshy, lazy, uncharismatic and boring, the Expresssbused it for all it's worth and again changed their royal covering style (this time to the extreme).

--------------------

Now, they're worse than ever with their false stories (copied from gossip magazines), their factual errors and their utterly ridiculous headlines. - Even the DF is serious in comparison, something I never thought I should say, but I said it.

 

[Somebody]

Actually, by GDP size, the Netherlands must be only the fifth largest continental economy after Germany, France, Italy and Spain. However, the British seem to have this ( in my opinion mistaken) perception that they can lure the Dutch to be on their side in the Brexit negotiations.

But the second monarchy ? after Spain who already visited.

 

[Zaira]

IMO, some traditions should be broken and giving an order to the male consort but not female ones is one of them. Absolutely out of date, but then again, the Queen is IMO (for the most part, please don't pelt me with a history lesson) loathed to change things unless she is forced to so there is that.

I LOVE Maxima, so I am excited for this visit, but sad the Sussexes will not be able to attend. Hopefully Kate will attend/be done with maternity leave (although I know she is technically allowed to take a full year) so we can get a nice array of tiaras! I expect Queen Maxima to bring out her big gun tiaras for the visit.

Maxima has a history of being a real support to other consorts (Charlene, Masako, Letizia) so I do hope she and Catherine have an event together! Camilla as well.

 

[Dman]

IMO, some traditions should be broken and giving an order to the male consort but not female ones is one of them. Absolutely out of date, but then again, the Queen is IMO (for the most part, please don't pelt me with a history lesson) loathed to change things unless she is forced to so there is that.

I LOVE Maxima, so I am excited for this visit, but sad the Sussexes will not be able to attend. Hopefully Kate will attend/be done with maternity leave (although I know she is technically allowed to take a full year) so we can get a nice array of tiaras! I expect Queen Maxima to bring out her big gun tiaras for the visit.

Maxima has a history of being a real support to other consorts (Charlene, Masako, Letizia) so I do hope she and Catherine have an event together! Camilla as well.

Yes, some things should change and the Queen Consorts should get an Order during State Visits.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Queen and the Duke hold the premier state honour (Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw) and the premier dynastical honour (Orde in de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau).

The Prince of Wales holds the second state honour (Orde van Oranje-Nassau) and the second dynastical honour (Huisorde van Oranje).

The Princess Royal holds the second dynastical honour (Huisorde van Oranje).

We have seen in Denmark that the King sometimes makes an unusual step: the premier state honour for Crown Prince Frederik and - Princess Mary. This was exceptional.

My prediction:

The Prince of Wales will get the premier state honour as well (Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw), making him the holder of three Dutch honours.

Unlike Crown Princess Mary, this Order will not be given to The Duchess of Cornwall. Reason: the lack of British reciprocity, no British state honour for Queen Máxima. However... I do not rule out that King Willem-Alexander will ignore this and bestow Camilla the same Order as Charles. Who knows?

Based on usual logic:

The Duchess of Cornwall will be given the second dynastical Order (Huisorde van Oranje) alike Diana.

The Duke of Cambridge will receive this too.

The Duchess of Cambridge will receive this too.

The Duke of York will receive this too.

The Earl of Wessex will receive this too.

The Countess of Wessex will receive this too.

The Princess Royal already holds said Order.



Other members of the British royal family will receive no honour from the King, maybe just a commemorative medal.

That is my prediction.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The fifth of the remaining 27 EU states is a big economy. Bigger dan Sweden, or Austria, or Belgium, or Denmark, or Poland, or Portugal, etc.

Plus one has to look to the regionality of the economy. The giants Royal Dutch Shell and Royal Unilever are Anglo-Dutch mergers. Dutch companies as Philips or AkzoNobel own major premises in the UK. Albello (a daughter of Netherlands Railways) exploits large public transportation concessions on the British isles. The uranium enrichment company Urenco is Anglo-Dutch as well. Dutch energy and water companies have a firm chunk in the British market. The British have always seen the Dutch and the Scandinavians as their "natural allies" in Europe. In general the Dutch and the Scandinavians always tried to use the UK as a counter weight against the mighty Axis Berlin-Paris, or as a counter weight of North European interests against South European sort of politics. The British will hope to find an understanding ear in the Brexit process. Never underestimate centuries old bonds between neighbours.

Another bond is that with Mary I Stuart, Mary II Stuart and Anne of Hanover there were three British consorts. It could have been four, was the engagement between Charlotte of Wales and Willem not abruptly broken up.

 

[Mbruno]

The Queen and the Duke hold the premier state honour (Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw) and the premier dynastical honour (Orde in de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau).

The Prince of Wales holds the second state honour (Orde van Oranje-Nassau) and the second dynastical honour (Huisorde van Oranje).

The Princess Royal holds the second dynastical honour (Huisorde van Oranje).

We have seen in Denmark that the King sometimes makes an unusual step: the premier state honour for Crown Prince Frederik and - Princess Mary. This was exceptional.

My prediction:

The Prince of Wales will get the premier state honour as well (Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw), making him the holder of three Dutch honours.

Unlike Crown Princess Mary, this Order will not be given to The Duchess of Cornwall. Reason: the lack of British reciprocity, no British state honour for Queen Máxima. However... I do not rule out that King Willem-Alexander will ignore this and bestow Camilla the same Order as Charles. Who knows?

Based on usual logic:

The Duchess of Cornwall will be given the second dynastical Order (Huisorde van Oranje) alike Diana.

The Duke of Cambridge will receive this too.

The Duchess of Cambridge will receive this too.

The Duke of York will receive this too.

The Earl of Wessex will receive this too.

The Countess of Wessex will receive this too.

The Princess Royal already holds said Order.



Other members of the British royal family will receive no honour from the King, maybe just a commemorative medal.

That is my prediction.

According to your predictions, it looks like King Willem-Alexander is very generous in giving out orders !



I am not so sure that the Duke of York or the Wessexes will be decorated, but I agree with your other predictions.

 

[cepe]

The problem with british orders is that they are very specific re reasons for giving ( ie OofBath usually civil servants or military) and the highest order(Garter) does not have secondary levels.

The RVO could be used but why HMQ doesnt do that is a mystery. I think Charles will be more generous.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The problem with british orders is that they are very specific re reasons for giving ( ie OofBath usually civil servants or military) and the highest order(Garter) does not have secondary levels.

The RVO could be used but why HMQ doesnt do that is a mystery. I think Charles will be more generous.

The Dutch King uses a "loophole" by granting dynastic honours. For this the King signs a Hofbesluit (Court Decree) which needs no ministerial contraseign. So we can say that these honours fall out of the framework of the bilateral agreements and are a sign of personal appreciation. Queen Juliana did so in 1972 to Charles and Anne. Queen Beatrix in 1982 to Diana. In both years Andrew and Edward did not take part.

In 1982 a Koninklijk Besluit (Royal Decree) was needed, with ministerial contraseign, to grant a state honour to Charles. This wil be needed again in 2018 for another state honour.

The eventual dynastic honours to Camilla, William, Catherine etc. just require the King's own will and pleasure. The Chancellery of the Netherlands' Orders will prepare the gift boxes and the accompanying original Decree in a velvet cilinder.

 

[Madame Verseau]

At this point Kate should have a Royal Family Order.

 

[Rudolph]

It’ll be nice to see the Cambridges during the State visit. The King and Queen were at W&C’s wedding plus Catherine met up with and had lunch with the King during her visit to the Netherlands.

Catherine and Maxima were on the balcony together for the remembrance service. Pics showed them talking and smiling.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Any chance of the king being overly generous and giving Princess Michael of Kent her 1st royal order

 

[wartenberg7]

The late Prince Henrik of Denmark had 3 British Orders!

Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath
Knight Grand Cross of the Order of St Michael and St George
Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order

This, to prefer men in honouring them by giving them orders towards women, only because of their sex, cannot be kept in the next reign! Even more so as Britain said "bye bye" to male succession when at first a girl is born!

Queens (consorts) hold the title of a Majesty, exactly as the Queen herself, while Prince consorts, as we all know, do not! So, if you really want to prefer one certain sex and follow this logic of the different titles of consorts, it should be the ladies who are to prefer when it comes to orders!
So why the british Queen, and only she, sticks stubbornly to this outdated concept of male preference without any substance to it, is beyond me!


Perhaps the idea is from the past when orders had a strong military connection, when Princes or Dukes had to go out in campaign and were honoured when they returned victorious while royal women of course didn´ t ? But that is soooo long gone....!

 

[Osipi]

I think when it comes to orders and Queen Elizabeth II, there are no rules and there are no protocols and its all entirely up to the will and the pleasure of the monarch in cases like this. The only person that really knows how it all works and why it works the way it does is the Queen, herself, and she ain't telling. ?