"Spare" memoir by the Duke of Sussex (2023)

[kimebear]

But did William really know Diana longer? He is only two years older than Harry. I think you both are right, I can see Diana maybe over doing it with Harry to make sure he didn't feel neglected. Since William probably did get more attention as the hair.

It's been said several times that Diana treated William, not just as a son, but as somewhat of a confidante during the War of the Waleses, which is a bit unfair since he was just a child. So yes, I do think that William knew Diana longer and better than Harry. Wasn't it also said that William, knowing how upset Diana was about losing her HRH title, promised to give it back when he was King one day? They were close.


But Harry was the baby, and as such was probably coddled a bit more. Especially as Diana and Charles were growing further and further apart and, like a lot of divorcing parents, took the opportunities with the children to fuss over them when in their physical custody.

 

[Queen Claude]

Any chance Harry is actually a bit jealous of William, because William knew Diana longer and likely better?

Yes. While Diana loved both of her sons, she claimed William was her soulmate and she used him for emotional support. I don't consider that a good thing for William, but I can see why Harry would resent their bond.

Another thing that nags at me is that Diana made it known that Charles wanted his second child to be a girl and was disappointed when they had a second boy. Even worse, Diana made it known that Harry's birth was the beginning of the end of the marriage.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Honestly, what did she expect marrying into/dating a royal? She must have known that they're into shooting and fishing and 'killing things.

Exactly. And it's one of the many reasons I side eyed the descriptions of her as being as intelligent and sophisticated as she was purported to be.

Only the most provincial of persons doesn't know that Royals traditionally like outdoor country pursuits like hunting and shooting.

Or that Royal families have an unequal hierarchical dynamic.

Harry should have helped her but this spoilt stunted man child could not properly have trained a pet seal.

Charles gets a lot of bad press for being a bad press, but Harry's sainted mother is just as bad imho.

What responsible parents raising public children in the public eyes repeatedly tells him/her to do whatever they want "just don't get caught"?

It comes off as immature and irresponsible. Which is exactly what Harry grew up to be.

 

[akina21]

Any chance Harry is actually a bit jealous of William, because William knew Diana longer and likely better?

I also think William ,being older, has a more realistic image of his mother , with all her flaws included . Harry has pretty much elevated her to sainthood

 

[Sunnystar]

Kate's private apology wasn't enough after the story became public and widely reported and accepted as FACTUAL AND TRUE.

If KP put out an official denial that Carole Middleton was a snobbish social climber whom her son in law was obsessed with, why couldn't they deny the Bridezilla incident with Kate?

And no, sorry. I don't share your assertion that the Midds deserved an official Palace rebuttal because they are such swell, upstanding people who got ragged on a lot.

No Palace official ever came to the defense of any of the Fergusons or Spencers during their times in the public hot seat over much more serious publicity than having a nouveau riche mindset, which was basically the entire point of the silly, snide Tatler article.

Who cares whether they do/did?

I assume your comment about expecting Kate to bow to Meg was a facetious one. So for that reason I will simply ignore it.

They couldn't issue any sort of comment about the bridesmaids dress incident/who made who cry prior to the wedding situation because Meghan admitted to KP staff, the same week of the wedding, that she HAD made Kate cry, and that she'd been crying herself over whatever words had been exchanged by them. So, what exactly could KP rebut? The staff knew that the headlines about Meghan making Kate cry were true. And they also knew Kate had apologized and brought Meghan flowers.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Meghan "admitted to KP staff that she made Kate cry"?

What staff? This is the very first I have heard of this and it sounds so unlike self righteous Meghan that I frankly don't believe it ever happened.

Why would Kate bring Meghan flowers if Meghan had been so rude as to reduce her to tears?

I can definitely see Kate extending an olive branch if the two women had quarreled.

But no. I have never heard anywhere that Meghan took responsibility, with staff no less.

 

[jkay2]

I agree with that as a conclusion. His sections on William are very contradictory and he very rarely tries to understand William’s point of view. You know what I found interesting? The births of George and Charlotte are both mentioned in the book but not the birth of Louis. I found it interesting because Harry is very angry at both William and Catherine for things that happened in the weeks leading up to the wedding, like the silly dress argument and the fact that William won’t stay the night with him because he needs to get back to the kids- but he never acknowledges Catherine had just given birth and that they had a newborn. He doesn’t allow himself really any moment of empathy for his brother.

I agree with you. He obviously is/was fond of both George and Charlotte. He didn't mention Louis at all. Louis birth could not have been at a worse time in terms of the wedding. I can understand why Harry felt annoyed/hurt at the time, but, especially after having his own children fairly close together, you would think he'd have a bit more empathy now about how the wedding was stressful for William and Catherine.

 

[Sunnystar]

Meghan "admitted to KP staff that she made Kate cry"?

What staff? This is the very first I have heard of this and it sounds so unlike self righteous Meghan that I frankly don't believe it ever happened.

Why would Kate bring Meghan flowers if Meghan had been so rude as to reduce her to tears?

I can definitely see Kate extending an olive branch if thevtwo women had quarreled.

But no. I have never heard anywhere that Meghan took responsibility, with staff no less.

Camilla Tominey addressed the story in an article printed by The Telegraph on Friday - you might have missed the discussion of it here because this thread is so fast moving (it was back around pg 128).

https://archive.ph/iUxZr#selection-1635.0-1699.41

 

[Mirabel]

I also think it might be fair to speculate that Harry's attachment to his mother might be a result of being considered more 'Diana's' than 'Charles', as William would have been given a bit more attention by the RF as the heir.

Yes, I seem to recall reading where Diana said something like: They (the RF) will take care of William. I have to look out for Harry, he has my brains.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I don’t think the son of the King of England could be considered a minor royal. He’s a non-working royal, which is a very different thing, but anyway off topic!

The line of Succession doesn’t care whether people are deeply religious or hardly ever go to Church. Both William and Harry were baptised and later confirmed in the Church of England and that’s all that matters. Neither of them were or are regular church goers.

Did not Princess Diana take Prince William and Prince Harry with her when she attended church?

 

[Lilyflo]

Did not Princess Diana take Prince William and Prince Harry with her when she attended church?

I don't recall Diana being a regular churchgoer - she was photographed everywhere but I don't remember many of her entering or leaving a church, other than weddings etc.

 

[Queen Claude]

Meghan "admitted to KP staff that she made Kate cry"?

What staff? This is the very first I have heard of this and it sounds so unlike self righteous Meghan that I frankly don't believe it ever happened.

Why would Kate bring Meghan flowers if Meghan had been so rude as to reduce her to tears?

I can definitely see Kate extending an olive branch if thevtwo women had quarreled.

But no. I have never heard anywhere that Meghan took responsibility, with staff no less.

Camilla Tominey broke the original story, she has written at least one follow up article standing by the original account that Kate cried. IIRC one of the follow ups was after the Oprah interview, where Meghan not only claimed that she (Meghan) cried but also stated that it was untrue that Kate cried, therefore painting a picture that the true story was that Kate made Meghan cry, and some awful person was "stole" that story, reversed it, and made Kate the crier and Meghan the aggressor.

And since the story is back on the front pages, Tominey has written about it again. It is this latest version that states that Meghan herself was the source that Kate cried, although that does not mean that she was the source who disclosed it to The Telegraph.

[Harry] also confirms a row between Kate and Meghan over bridesmaids dresses, despite describing it as a “sci-fi fantasy”.

The French couture dresses did not fit any of the bridesmaids properly and, contrary to Harry’s suggestion that Kate was the only one who made a fuss, Meghan told staff at the time she had complained to the designer and that several of the mothers were angry. The row didn’t actually happen at a fitting but when Kate went round to Meghan’s to discuss it. (At this point both women lived at Kensington Palace: Meghan at Nottingham Cottage and Kate at Apartment 1A).

Ironically, it was Meghan herself who acknowledged to the then Cambridges’ staff that Kate “had left in tears” - in a bid for help to smooth it over. That’s why the palace couldn’t demand a retraction.

Here is the link but the full story is behind a paywall, someone may be able to provide a non-paywalled link.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Did not Princess Diana take Prince William and Prince Harry with her when she attended church?

Diana was never a conventionally religious person according to those who knew her well, at least not after her marriage to the PoW.

She was into New Age beliefs such as crystals, astrology etc.

I have never gotten the sense that William or Harry are religious church goers either.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Yes, I seem to recall reading where Diana said something like: They (the RF) will take care of William. I have to look out for Harry, he has my brains.

Diana said those types of things about her children in public.
Was she also saying similar things to the boys in their home?
No one's parents are perfect and nor was Diana.

In the book Harry idolised his mother like a saint.
Those around him, alert to his loss and sensitivity, perhaps let Harry think this all his life.

 

[Somebody]

I agree with you. He obviously is/was fond of both George and Charlotte. He didn't mention Louis at all. Louis birth could not have been at a worse time in terms of the wedding. I can understand why Harry felt annoyed/hurt at the time, but, especially after having his own children fairly close together, you would think he'd have a bit more empathy now about how the wedding was stressful for William and Catherine.

Catherine was pregnant before Harry and Meghan got engaged. So, they decided to get marry just after Catherine would give birth and by doing so inconvenienced William and Catherine and their young family. I don't think they necessarily should have waited (as it must be quite complicated to find a time that works for all senior royals and other important attendees) but it would have been kind to take that into account in their preparations, instead of throwing it at Catherine in a very unkind (and accusatory) way.

 

[Lori138]

Honestly, what did she expect marrying into/dating a royal? She must have known that they're into shooting and fishing and 'killing things.

But she didn't know any of these things (she says).

 

[Sunnystar]

Honestly, what did she expect marrying into/dating a royal? She must have known that they're into shooting and fishing and 'killing things.

But she didn't know any of these things (she says).

I've just started reading Part 3 of the memoir this afternoon and I can't keep from and at every single proclamation from Harry that Meghan had absolutely not googled his family or knew anything about them. He "met" her via IG DM on July 1, 2016 - what would have been his mother's 55th birthday and it's very clear that he basically transferred all of his hero worship of Diana onto Meghan. Meanwhile, I'm reading this and thinking the most unkind things about Meghan - all the reservations that the doubters had while they were dating/during the engagement seem to have been very sound in retrospect. Mark met indeed. I'm only at Chapter 18 and already think Harry is even dimmer-witted than I'd thought based on the first two Parts of his memoir.

 

[HRHHermione]

I've just started reading Part 3 of the memoir this afternoon and I can't keep from and at every single proclamation from Harry that Meghan had absolutely not googled his family or knew anything about them. He "met" her via IG DM on July 1, 2016 - what would have been his mother's 55th birthday and it's very clear that he basically transferred all of his hero worship of Diana onto Meghan. Meanwhile, I'm reading this and thinking the most unkind things about Meghan - all the reservations that the doubters had while they were dating/during the engagement seem to have been very sound in retrospect. Mark met indeed. I'm only at Chapter 18 and already think Harry is even dimmer-witted than I'd thought based on the first two Parts of his memoir.

That kept getting to me too. You could sell me on the idea of Meghan as an intelligent and hardworking woman who liked to be prepared, which is how she’s sometimes presented herself. Or you could sell me on the idea of her as someone who knew nothing about the royal family and had no idea what she was getting into.

What you absolutely can’t sell me on is both of those ideas at the same time, and that’s what they’ve tried to go for. It’s a bit maddening actually.

 

[kimebear]

What you absolutely can’t sell me on is both of those ideas at the same time, and that’s what they’ve tried to go for. It’s a bit maddening actually.

Or worse, that it IS both, which would only show just how disinterested Meghan was about how her future family really worked if she didn't bother taking the time to prepare.

I'm not sure which scenario is the more troubling one.

 

[Curryong]

Most Americans who are on royal forums know quite a lot about royalty in general especially if they have been on such forums a lot over the years. Most Americans in general though know nothing about royalty and care less.

What about a middle scenario though, someone (like Meghan) who had been to England and had seen videos of Diana’s wedding and her funeral?

They would certainly know something of the Royal Family though not necessarily a lot, but would they know as a matter of course about the country pursuits of the RF and the aristocratic and upper middle class set who surround them?

Meghan as far as is known never went to country house weekends in England before her engagement, and didn’t really know a lot of English people before Harry.

I do think therefore that it’s presuming a bit much that Meghan knew a whole lot about the hunting, shooting and fishing pursuits of the royal family or of some of Harry’s friends who attended shoots etc before she had met them. I doubt that Eugenie and Jack’s conversation (and she did know them) revolved around people ‘shooting things’.

 

[gerry]

Or worse, that it IS both, which would only show just how disinterested Meghan was about how her future family really worked if she didn't bother taking the time to prepare.

I'm not sure which scenario is the more troubling one.

Meghan, as many have already remarked, is suspiciously quiet during this whole Spare episode (is she playing a Spare role herself, one wonders..) I am willing to bet that she is currently working on her own memoirs that will go far to position her as the ‘wannabe’ that she is suspected of being. I will say here that if I hear the Dove soap lotion story once more, I shall SCREAM!

 

[Sunnystar]

Or worse, that it IS both, which would only show just how disinterested Meghan was about how her future family really worked if she didn't bother taking the time to prepare.

I'm not sure which scenario is the more troubling one.

Well, I think I agree with @HRHHermione that it's a one-or-the-other proposition with regards to Meghan's preparation/knowledge of the BRF. Even if she didn't really know much about the ins and outs of curtseying or that William & Kate weren't natural huggers (not an American vs. British thing, btw - plenty of us Americans aren't natural huggers either), the stuff she's allegedly unaware of - like who Andrew was when she was going to Sunday lunch at Royal Lodge with Eugenie, Jack and Fergie... C'mon. That just beggars belief. You literally have to be living under a rock to not know that Sarah & Andrew have basically been common law spouses since their divorce. The same with the whole "Willy and I are doing something for Mum tomorrow" text exchange.

I read all these passages and I can't help but thinking, rather cynically, that she was absolutely playing him and Harry fell for every bat of the eye, every "who's that?" or "what's Althorp?", every saucy undercover Waitrose adventure. She was willing to sacrifice her time and air miles by coming to him in London so that he wouldn't have to travel to another country and run the risk of someone discovering their relationship.

To all that, I've got this refrain running through my head - https://tenor.com/view/girl-sure-jan-sarcastic-brady-bunch-gif-11590179

 

[Curryong]

Isn’t Montecito and the areas around it, one of those places in California that have been heavily impacted by floods, storms, mudslides etc? I know that was being reported, along with reports of mass evacuations of residents at around the time ‘Spare’ was released.

So, all things considered, I think Meghan has had more on her plate over the last couple of weeks than appearing alongside Harry when he was speaking with Anderson Cooper, Stephen Colbert etc. She was probably in LA with their children.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Most Americans who are on royal forums know quite a lot about royalty in general especially if they have been on such forums a lot over the years. Most Americans in general though know nothing about royalty and care less.

What about a middle scenario though, someone (like Meghan) who had been to England and had seen videos of Diana’s wedding and her funeral?

They would certainly know something of the Royal Family though not necessarily a lot, but would they know as a matter of course about the country pursuits of the RF and the aristocratic and upper middle class set who surround them?

Meghan as far as is known never went to country house weekends in England before her engagement, and didn’t really know a lot of English people before Harry.

I do think therefore that it’s presuming a bit much that Meghan knew a whole lot about the hunting, shooting and fishing pursuits of the royal family or of some of Harry’s friends who attended shoots etc before she had met them. I doubt that Eugenie and Jack’s conversation (and she did know them) revolved around people ‘shooting things’.

I believe that she might not have been familiar with the pursuits of the BRF, but could Harry not have told Meghan his hobbies or things he did with his family? Well, Meghan allegedly isn’t a fan of outdoor sports that aristos and royals of the old school do. Unless you know Brits who are into the country lifestyle pursuits or do some yourself, then you would know. There lots of reports on the social circles of members of the BRF and some of their doings. Harry couldn’t have told her what he does with friends? I’m sure he told her something.

Meghan could have gone to a country house ie visiting Earl Spencer at Althorp, but maybe not for the hunting, shooting, etc. But seeing as things went so fast, I don’t think she much time to integrate with his circle.

 

[doro]

Now Harry is giving an interview to the program Fantástico on TV Globo today

 

[Curryong]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/t...erview-sells-wide-internationally-1235294224/

ITV Studios reports it has sold Harry: The Interview, Prince Harry?s chat with ITV from his home in Los Angeles, into 77 international territories, including across Europe, Africa and the Middle East.

The global pre-sales for the 90-minute program follows the Duke of Sussex?s talk with Tom Bradby, journalist and ITV News at Ten presenter, first airing in the UK on Jan. 8 on ITV1. The controversial interview aired in the UK two days before Prince Harry?s memoir Spare was published on Jan. 10.

 

[jkay2]

Isn’t Montecito and the areas around it, one of those places in California that have been heavily impacted by floods, storms, mudslides etc? I know that was being reported, along with reports of mass evacuations of residents at around the time ‘Spare’ was released.

So, all things considered, I think Meghan has had more on her plate over the last couple of weeks than appearing alongside Harry when he was speaking with Anderson Cooper, Stephen Colbert etc. She was probably in LA with their children.

I was wondering about this too. Montecito is heavily impacted by the flooding, and they were under a mandatory evacuation order. He was in NYC filming Colbert for his Spare tour when that order came in. I never saw any reports about where Meghan and the kids were when the order was put in place.

 

[Sunnystar]

Still reading tonight and I can't believe no one's mentioned that Harry doubles down, in Part 3, Ch 48, about the "small ceremony" three days before the wedding, which has been factually disproven since Meghan first made the claim in the Oprah interview...

The archbishop reached the official part, spoke the few words that made us The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, titles bestowed by Granny, and he joined us until death parted us, though he’d already done similar days earlier, in our garden, a small ceremony, just the two of us, Guy and Pula the only witnesses. Unofficial, non-binding, except in our souls. We were grateful for every person in and around St. George’s, and watching on TV, but our love began in private, and being public had been mostly pain, so we wanted the first consecration of our love, the first vows, to be private as well. Magical as the formal ceremony was, we’d both come to feel slightly frightened of…crowds.

 

[Curryong]

Harry calls the ceremony in the garden ‘unofficial and non-binding, except in our souls’. Nowhere does he call it legal, a C of E blessing, just very special to both of them I would guess.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Can you gift any NYT or WaPo articles that you share instead of just giving the link? All of their articles require either a subscription or a gift link for non-subscribers to read. Thanks!

See if this works; I did it as a gift but had never done that before - please let me know!

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/14/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare