Religion and the Danish Royal Family

[Iluvbertie]

The Danes as protestants would, if translated into English, say the Lord's Prayer like this:

The Lord's Prayer which is much the same as the Anglican from the Book of Common Prayer. The Lord's Prayer Words- traditional

The RC version is Our Father Prayer-Catholic Lord's Prayer

The RC ends earlier than either the Lutherans or the Anglicans.

I hope mentioning the Lutheran version allows me to point out the differences.

 

[FasterB]

The Danes as protestants would, if translated into English, would say the Lord's Prayer:

The Lord's Prayer which is much the same as the Anglican from the Book of Common Prayer. The Lord's Prayer Words- traditional

The RC version is Our Father Prayer-Catholic Lord's Prayer

The RC ends earlier than either the Lutherans or the Anglicans.

I hope mentioning the Lutheran version allows me to point out the differences.

Then it´s "only" the doxology that differ them

Thank you, IluvBertie

 

[Von Schlesian]

The Danes as protestants would, if translated into English, would say the Lord's Prayer:

The Lord's Prayer which is much the same as the Anglican from the Book of Common Prayer. The Lord's Prayer Words- traditional

The RC version is Our Father Prayer-Catholic Lord's Prayer

The RC ends earlier than either the Lutherans or the Anglicans.

I hope mentioning the Lutheran version allows me to point out the differences.

Except in the Order of the Mass. When the Lord's Prayer is prayed withing Mass, the Doxology is said by the faithful, following the Embolism which is said by the celebrant alone.

I echo Iluvbertie's hope that this explanation is accepted only for the sake of clarity and not as an act of rebellion against the topic of the thread.

 

[Mbruno]

Princess Mary was not re-confirmed. Did she have to be baptized in the Lutheran faith?

The mainstream Christian churches, including BTW the Roman Catholic Church, do not baptize the same person twice. If a person was baptized in a form that is considered "valid" (in most churches, using the Trinitarian formula and clean water), then he/she doesn't need to be "re-baptized" when joining another denomination.

The Danes as protestants would, if translated into English, would say the Lord's Prayer:

The Lord's Prayer which is much the same as the Anglican from the Book of Common Prayer. The Lord's Prayer Words- traditional

The RC version is Our Father Prayer-Catholic Lord's Prayer

The RC ends earlier than either the Lutherans or the Anglicans.

I hope mentioning the Lutheran version allows me to point out the differences.

As explained below, the last part[FONT=times new roman,times] ("for thine is the kingdom [...]") is actually included a posteriori in the order of the Catholic mass. The modern version in English is, however, "for the kingdom, the power and the glory are yours, now and forever".
[/FONT]

 

[Mbruno]

The Danes as protestants would, if translated into English, say the Lord's Prayer like this:

The Lord's Prayer which is much the same as the Anglican from the Book of Common Prayer. The Lord's Prayer Words- traditional

The RC version is Our Father Prayer-Catholic Lord's Prayer

The RC ends earlier than either the Lutherans or the Anglicans.
.

I don't think "it ends earlier". The point is that the last verse ("for the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory etc.") is not part of the Lord's Prayer per se. In the Catholic mass, that verse is repeated by the congregation separatedly and shortly after the Lord's Prayer.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The royal priest reveals: King Frederik himself wanted a celebration service.
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kongehusets-praest-afsloerer-kong-frederik-oenskede-selv-festgudstjeneste

"Now the royal house's priest reveals to BT that it is Crown Prince Frederik himself who wanted to hold a celebratory service in Aarhus Cathedral to mark the change of throne.

"It is the wish of the future king to hold the service in Aarhus, and I am of course happy about that. It says a lot about his close relationship with Aarhus,' reads a written response from Henrik Wigh-Poulsen, who will lead the service."

Most of the article is about the concerns of Church of Denmark clergy (several of whom are quoted on the record) who view the now king Frederik as less committed to the Church and less sincerely religious compared to Queen Margrethe II. The court pastor was apparently pushing back on those concerns, though Frederik himself is perhaps less concerned about his reputation with the church, since he did not make a reference to God in his chosen motto as most recent monarchs did.

(Denmark has a Lutheran state church, of which the King is required by the Constitution to be a member.)

 

[Somebody]

I am not sure the article reference by polyesco indicates that Frederik himself wanted to hold a celebratory service. Don't Henrik Wigh-Poulsen's words indicate that he wanted the service to take place in Aarhus? It doesn't mean that he was the one to suggest a service at all - it could very well mean that given that there was to be a service, he suggested it took place in Aarhus (instead of Copenhagen where the other activities were already taking place).

 

[An Ard Ri]

Isn't the king now head of the Church of Denmark?

 

[iceflower]

No, he's not, see here:

Although the monarch is not the head of the Church, the monarch, together with the Folketing, makes up the secular supreme authority of the Church. In that role, the monarch is requested to fulfil certain duties pertaining to the Church, such as appointing new bishops and authorising texts for use in the Church.

 

[Mbruno]

No, he's not, see here:

How is that different from the British monarch? Technically, the British monarch is not the "head" of the Church of England either, but rather the "Supreme Governor". Is "Supreme Governor" substantially different from "Supreme Authority" in any meaningful sense?

Also, it seems to me that, when it comes to things like appointing bishops, those choces are actually made in practice by the politicians, either in England or in Denmark. And approving church measures is done by Parliament.

Anyway, state churches are a relic of a past era. Only Denmark and England (as opposed to the broader UK) have them now in Europe strictly speaking, although some aspects of the basic constitution of the mational Church are still regulated by the State and there are still religious requirements for the royal succession in Norway and Sweden too.

 

[Muhler]

King Frederik formally heads the State Church, just as he is formally the commander-in-chief.
But in reality the whole thing is run by the Ministry of Church and the Ministry of Defense.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Does the Danish church have any Archbishops/Primate or is it just a synod of Bishops?

(The CoI Primate of Ireland ,The Archbishop of Armagh is head of the Anglican Church here)

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

King Frederik formally heads the State Church, just as he is formally the commander-in-chief.
But in reality the whole thing is run by the Ministry of Church and the Ministry of Defense.

The King AND the Folketing are the supreme authority of the church. The king alone is not the formal head of the state church.

 

[Muhler]

The King AND the Folketing are the supreme authority of the church. The king alone is not the formal head of the state church.

Wasn't that what I wrote?

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

Wasn't that what I wrote?

I read your first sentence as saying that the King is alone the supreme head of the church while the government runs things. I was saying that the Folketing and the King are equally supreme heads of the church. There is also a primate but as congregations are independent I don't really understand his importance.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Regarding the state church, what the constitution of the kingdom of Denmark states is:

§ 4
The Evangelical Lutheran Church shall be the Established Church of Denmark, and as such shall be supported by the State.

§ 6
The King shall be a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church.

§ 66
The constitution of the Established Church shall be laid down by statute.

https://english.stm.dk/media/8874/the-constitutional-act-of-denmark.pdf​

Can anyone share a link to the constitution of the Established Church (Church of Denmark) referred to in § 66?

 

[JR76]

In the newly published manifesto "Kongeord" (The Kings words) King Frederik among other things speaks about his relationship with Christianity. He says that he and Mary have always read "Our Father" with their children before bedtime and that the twins still insist upon it doing so before lights out. "For my wife and me — and for many other Danish parents, I would think — the evening prayer is a small but living expression of our faith, which we do not want to do without."
He also says that he's fond of going to church and that Christianity is "an important part of who we are".
Mentioning his motto "Forbundne, forpligtet for Kongeriget Danmark" (United, Bound by duty to the Kingdom of Denmark) and him not mentioning God in it he says that to him God is included in the word "united". It's worth mentioning that one of the translations of "forbund" are "convenant".
The King sums it up in saying that "The strength of faith doesn't lie in God being mentioned in a kings words but in us as humans, as a people, feel united/bound together in our Christian faith. It united each one of us to something greater than ourselves and can be seen as a connection to other humans, to God and to our shared history."
I'd say that this should put and end to the discussion on if King Frederik has sidelined Christianity or not.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Its nice of the king to talk about his faith and relationship with his Christian roots.

 

[Gawin]

Regarding the state church, what the constitution of the kingdom of Denmark states is:

§ 4
The Evangelical Lutheran Church shall be the Established Church of Denmark, and as such shall be supported by the State.

§ 6
The King shall be a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church.

§ 66
The constitution of the Established Church shall be laid down by statute.

https://english.stm.dk/media/8874/the-constitutional-act-of-denmark.pdf​

Can anyone share a link to the constitution of the Established Church (Church of Denmark) referred to in § 66?

According to the article linked below, "It was foreseen in article 66 of the Danish constitution that a constitution for the Danish Folk Church should be established by law...This constitution was never given..." (see unnumbered page 4):

https://original.religlaw.org/content/blurb/files/Chapter 18. Mortensen.pdf

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In the newly published manifesto "Kongeord" (The Kings words) King Frederik among other things speaks about his relationship with Christianity. He says that he and Mary have always read "Our Father" with their children before bedtime and that the twins still insist upon it doing so before lights out. "For my wife and me — and for many other Danish parents, I would think — the evening prayer is a small but living expression of our faith, which we do not want to do without."
He also says that he's fond of going to church and that Christianity is "an important part of who we are".
Mentioning his motto "Forbundne, forpligtet for Kongeriget Danmark" (United, Bound by duty to the Kingdom of Denmark) and him not mentioning God in it he says that to him God is included in the word "united". It's worth mentioning that one of the translations of "forbund" are "convenant".
The King sums it up in saying that "The strength of faith doesn't lie in God being mentioned in a kings words but in us as humans, as a people, feel united/bound together in our Christian faith. It united each one of us to something greater than ourselves and can be seen as a connection to other humans, to God and to our shared history."
I'd say that this should put and end to the discussion on if King Frederik has sidelined Christianity or not.

Thank you for sharing this interesting excerpt. Just a bit more from Muhler's summary of quotes from the manifesto:

Yes, King Frederik's manifesto in bookform has been a huge seller today.
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kong-frederik-om-sit-private-liv-med-mary-hun-er-min-wingman

It's basically his thoughts about being a king, his visions for the future for him and the realm and some thoughts on what traditions he will continue.

What follow here is a number of excepts and quotes from the book, in no particular order.

[...]

He did not mention God in his proverb because he wanted his proverb to be more inclusive.

He does believe Christianity is a foundation for the Danish realm.
He does attend service in church because he likes to.
They still say the Lord's Prayer each evening for twins, before lights out. The children like it that way.

[...]

According to the article linked below, "It was foreseen in article 66 of the Danish constitution that a constitution for the Danish Folk Church should be established by law...This constitution was never given..." (see unnumbered page 4):

https://original.religlaw.org/content/blurb/files/Chapter 18. Mortensen.pdf

Thank you! Interesting how a constitutional mandate has gone unfulfilled for almost 200 years (if article 66 was included in the original version of the kingdom's constitution), the upshot being that the governing politicians have exercised stronger control over the church than originally intended:

"It was foreseen in article 66 of the Danish constitution that a constitution for the Danish Folk Church should be established by law. This provision forms a part of the principle of religious freedom and was intended to limit the power of the state over church matters, internal and external. This constitution was never given and the article in the constitution was interpreted in such a way that it was through the continuing legislation that the church was governed. Elements of a self-governing system is established through the parish church councils, but the original demand for a separation between church and state was never achieved and the Evangelical Lutheran Church is thus still closely linked to the state."​

In regards to the earlier debate about whether the supreme authority over the state Church is the government, monarch or both, the article implies it is the government:

"The Danish parliament, Folketinget, is the legislative authority for the church. The Minister for Ecclesiastical Affairs is the highest administrative authority. On behalf of the government, the Minister puts forward legislative proposals which are subsequently discussed and voted on in parliament. By tradition, the parliament (Folketinget) endeavors to reach a broad agreement before church legislation is accepted."​