Relationships between the Members of the Danish Royal Family

[dee4855]

Carmen Jones their body language was a little strained in the very early days - but has relaxed a great deal since. I think that Mary, coming from a family without much money, was a little shy around Marie in case she was snobbish (Marie's background has some upper-crust connections, Mary's family has none, and Marie was for example already a skier etc, which contrasted with Mary's suburban experience) - but Marie is clearly very easy to get along with, and has looked after Mary socially. Despite appearances, it hasn't been easy for Mary to break into the wider royal circle. Now Marie and Mary are great allies and friends - though I have long sensed a bit of distance between Joachim and Mary. Perhaps Joachim is a bit of a snob.

I really do not think Mary needed or needs anyone to look after her socially. Mary seems to do fine in this area. I do not see Marie as having much pull with who Mary and Frederik see since they seem to run with different crowds than Marie and Joachim. What are your sources that Mary has been unable to break into wider royal circles. Marie was not even associated with the family since Joachim was still married when Mary became part of the royal family. I am sure if someone wants to be accepted into the circle of friends of Mary and the CP they will accept Mary if they want to remain friends of the CP. Mary and Marie do not attend very many social gatherings together so how you can state Marie looks after her and opened doors for her socially is just unfounded. I would imagine just being the future King would open many doors for Mary that Marie could not ever open.

 

[Sternchen]

Marie [...] has looked after Mary socially.

Hm, can you explain this? I am not sure that I have understood this sentence?

 

[Lumutqueen]

Carmen Jones their body language was a little strained in the very early days - but has relaxed a great deal since. I think that Mary, coming from a family without much money, was a little shy around Marie in case she was snobbish (Marie's background has some upper-crust connections, Mary's family has none, and Marie was for example already a skier etc, which contrasted with Mary's suburban experience) - but Marie is clearly very easy to get along with, and has looked after Mary socially. Despite appearances, it hasn't been easy for Mary to break into the wider royal circle. Now Marie and Mary are great allies and friends - though I have long sensed a bit of distance between Joachim and Mary. Perhaps Joachim is a bit of a snob.

Wow, your view of things is way off IMO.
Mary was part of the DRF what 4 years before Marie, it has always looked like Mary looking after Marie to me. I am pretty sure that Mary had met Marie many times before she became a Princess, and she would have realised if she was "snobby" or not.
What does skiing have to with fitting into the royal family?

I have never seen Marie with Mary at a non-royal social event, so how does she "look after" Mary?

Mary fitted into her role as Crown Princess, much quicker than Marie is fitting in as a Princess.

 

[Commonconsort]

Yes. I believe the party girl from Hobart did indeed learn a lot from the classy Marie and I dont think of Joachim as a snob - IMO he believes his brother could have done a lot better.

 

[Muhler]

Yes. I believe the party girl from Hobart did indeed learn a lot from the classy Marie and I dont think of Joachim as a snob - IMO he believes his brother could have done a lot better.

What do you base that on? I'm a little puzzled since Mary entered the public glare in earnest in 2004 and our Marie only came about four years later. By which time Mary's position was very much established.

Also keep in mind that la Marie, being who she is , got a lot of heat initially for being too open in regards to the press. - She has learned a lot since then! Both in regards to dealing with the press, (certainly in regards to the magazines) but also in developing her own style, sometimes pulling it off very well.

I'm glad you don't find Joachim a snob. I personally believe he has an admirable character, which unfortunately isn't appreciated so much due to his, shall we say, more aristocratic manner.
I don't believe he believes his brother could do better. Firstly, simply because it would be out of character for him to do so. Secondly, simply because I don't believe he would. - And indeed, why should he?

 

[4Pam]

I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Joachim liked Mary right off the bat and was glad that Fred met her.

 

[Terri Terri]

Wow! Some of these posts about Princess Marie supposedly "helping" Crown Princess Mary "socially" are textbook reasons why people should never believe what they read in trashy tabloids and on some negative internet websites!!!! It is so far from the truth that it is amazing that some actually believe it!
And as far as Joachim thinking that CP Mary wasn't "good enough" for his brother, it would be very strange if he had that attitude given that Princess Marie physically resembles CP Mary so much to the point that they could be sisters!!! The truth of the matter is that Prince Joachim has stated that CP Frederik is very lucky to have CP Mary in his life. All of the DRF are happy about the very positive impact that CP Mary has had on CP Frederick as he is a very happy man indeed!

Anyway, this thread has gone off topic. These posts should be in the "Relationships in the DRF" thread, not here in the Mary Foundation thread!

 

[Madame Royale]

The "party girl from Hobart", "has looked after Mary socially", "a bit of distance between Mary and Joachim" . . .

Amusing, quite amusing, but it doesn't take long before the agenda's of certain members becomes apparent. It's just funny that they think no one notices

 

[dee4855]

The "party girl from Hobart", "has looked after Mary socially", "a bit of distance between Mary and Joachim" . . .

Amusing, quite amusing, but it doesn't take long before the agenda's of certain members becomes apparent. It's just funny that they think no one notices

It is funny how they show up at certain times isn't it. Of all places to try and put this kind of garbage over why in here. Everyone here knows what is going on with M&F almost as well as they know themselves.

 

[Aotearoagal]

Forgive a further "off-topic" post, but I would like to be clear that I don't endorse any "party girl" reference with regard to Mary, who I think has done amazingly well for someone who wasn't born to privilege and expectations. She hasn't had the opportunity to shine yet - but that's the downside of being the partner of a long-term "heir-in-waiting".

 

[dee4855]

Forgive a further "off-topic" post, but I would like to be clear that I don't endorse any "party girl" reference with regard to Mary, who I think has done amazingly well for someone who wasn't born to privilege and expectations. She hasn't had the opportunity to shine yet - but that's the downside of being the partner of a long-term "heir-in-waiting".

Where in the world are you coming up with these things? Mary has been shining for several years now. Marie has nothing to do with Mary and her position in the family.

 

[Aotearoagal]

Where in the world are you coming up with these things? Mary has been shining for several years now. Marie has nothing to do with Mary and her position in the family.

Dee I think you're misunderstanding my post a little . Mary has been shining in a fairly restricted role - she has yet to influence Denmark in terms of state. Once she is on the throne, her role will be much more differentiated from Marie's. Currently, with Joachim and Marie performing diplomatic visits, there's less distinction between the heir and the "next-born" as far as activities, other than in the official regent role - which they tend to share. Enough said I hope!

 

[Madame Royale]

Though I'd think it's quite clear that Mary's role is quite different, infact should it be said, more significant in comparison to Marie's. That is only natural.

One only has to note the number of patronages held, the number of foreign trips undertaken in a representorial role, and the number of regional engagements attended by either lady. To me, it's blatantly obvious.

Naturally a great deal goes on behind closed doors, and Mary is closely involved with matters that Marie is not (Kongehuset Indefra explores this to some degree).

It was never expected that Joachim's second wife should take on a role like that of her predecessor. Marie's role was always going to be rather minor in comparison, especially as Denmark now has a Crown Princess to fulfill the 'obligations' (in other words, being 'present') that were otherwise conducted by the former Princess Alexandra.

Alexandra's role was, in effect, that of a Crown Princess being that she was the only Princess in the (immediate) family to undertake any kind of official role.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I agree - I assume that a relation between Mary and Alexandra (if she was still Joachims wife) would certainly be strained, not only because Alex was kind of a CP before Mary came along but also because she is a very ambitious woman, even after her divorce she still keeps some of her patronages.

But with Marie? No way. And for what reason? Marie is Joachims second wife, came into the family well after Mary was settled as CP and I dont see anything in her personality that asks for trouble. Contrary to Alex, Marie seems to be happy to give no more effort than necessary when it comes down to duty or public appearance. I dont want to label her as lazy but IMO her focus is on being Lady of the Manour in Schackenborg, have some kids and a carefree life while pitying the CP couple for what they have to deal with. I see Marie as very convenient who makes herself at home in a royal household while having to add little to it, not envying those who are after the spotlight or who the spotlight is after.

Her life is so much different from Marys, dutywise, spotlightwise and characterwise. There is no reason at all to envy each other since each woman got what they were after, Mary the fame and the attention and Marie the privileged life on other peoples expenses.

 

[Muhler]

There is no reason at all to envy each other since each woman got what they were after, Mary the fame and the attention and Marie the privileged life on other peoples expenses.

Those are very hard words. - Are you sure you meant it the way it came out?
You do not wish to put it differently?

 

[Zonk]

I am always amazed how people can speak with such conviction on the motives of people that they have never met.

Its one thing to say you think so and so thinks that, wishes that but you know for sure?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Its my opinion (I said IMO in my post), thats all. Since hardly any poster on any message board knows any of the people they are commenting on personally, opinions are formed by pictures or media coverage (sugar and non-sugar). There is no right to truth on either side.

This is the vibe I get from these two ladies, I dont think its harsh and I dont think its offensive but of course people are free to disagree.

 

[Muhler]

Its my opinion (I said IMO in my post), thats all. Since hardly any poster on any message board knows any of the people they are commenting on personally, opinions are formed by pictures or media coverage (sugar and non-sugar). There is no right to truth on either side.

This is the vibe I get from these two ladies, I dont think its harsh and I dont think its offensive but of course people are free to disagree.

Well, in that case I disagree.

I disagree with you opinion, which I challenge you to back up with something more substancial than a vibe.

Also, I believe there is a considerable difference in praising or commending people and saying something negative about someone.

If you say something positive about someone then at worst it's undeserved or "sugary" if you will.
I firmly believe you should be much more careful when you say something negative, gut feeling or not, about someone. That is after all an attack on someone else's character.
- And in that case you must be prepared to be challenged and expected to back up your opinion.

So I ask you again: On what do you base your perception of Mary primarily wanting fame and attention? And on Princess Marie wishing to live a comfortable life without contributing much on behalf of the DRF?

 

[Blackadder]

Oh come on, it's getting childish. I may have written bad things about Crown Princess Mary (I'm sure, here we both agree, Muhler ). But what negative things has that Duke said? That Mary loves fame and attention? If it is the case, then I would say good for her, otherwise she would suffer in her position. If we have to show proofs for each **** and vibe we get from people, then it will get boring and empty. One could rather feel attacked for advancing an opinion here. And by the way - I personally believe that you can only attack someone that cares about it and I think Mary couldn't care less what certain users in certain internet forums dedicated to royalty write about her.

 

[Muhler]

Oh come on, it's getting childish. I may have written bad things about Crown Princess Mary (I'm sure, here we both agree, Muhler ). But what negative things has that Duke said? That Mary loves fame and attention? If it is the case, then I would say good for her, otherwise she would suffer in her position. If we have to show proofs for each **** and vibe we get from people, then it will get boring and empty. One could rather feel attacked for advancing an opinion here. And by the way - I personally believe that you can only attack someone that cares about it and I think Mary couldn't care less what certain users in certain internet forums dedicated to royalty write about her.

Fair enough. I respect your opinion.

I've been critical of members of the DRF as well and I've naturally had to really be prepared to back up what I've said! And I did. That's the way it is.

Having said that, there has recently been a number of statements about Mary in particular, by posters using pretty hard words. Unecessary hard words in my opinion.

It's one thing to be critical of Mary or whomever, because.....
That I can respect, even though I may disagree or challenge it.

It's another thing to state something about someone's character or motives, using harsh words. Because, sorry, then you must expect to get a response in the same manner.

But let me clear: I flatly refuse to place Mary or any other member of the DRF on a pedistal, (except for fun), that is unfair towards her in my opinion. And there is only one way from a pedistal. - Down.
But that does not mean that I will not repond to posts about Mary I feel are unfair or unfounded.
I'm sure you understand.

 

[dee4855]

Some of the comments about Mary are totally unfounded (show me the proof please when you slam her) and I understand a personal opinion or vibe on some members part. I see many of them more of an attack and they can be very harsh on Mary and more than a personal opinion. For Mary to become a member of the DRF took a lot of guts on her part. Her life is dissected on every move she makes. She had no idea who the CP was when she met him. She was not out prowling the streets looking for him. They happened to meet, fall in love and marry. Just like all the other young royal couples that have married. I just do not understand why Mary seems to be attacked over and over. I see her as a very hard working young woman who is wanting to help better her new country with her foundation and the works she is involved with. She seems to do more than many of the other CP's that just show up at some things. She tries very hard to conduct herself in a manner that is expected of a royal then she gets accused of being a camera hog, her dressing, being a snob and wanting attention. Her husband is going to be the King one day and of course she is going to get attention. Is this her fault? Her children are attacked which is totally uncalled for by anyone. There are other royal children that are not well behaved yet you do not see pages written about them. I just think some people need to understand that when you attack her there will be some of us that will say something back. If you have proof...great, show me. If this is your vibe or opinion...wonderful, then I will have mine.

 

[Madame Royale]

Mary does not strike me (and never has, personally) as being someone who married for fame. I think she has a well established character and a good deal of intelligence about her, but I don't believe there was an agenda, a motive, for marrying Frederik other than the fact they (quite evidently) fell in love and that she was suitably grounded to undertake the task ahead with much conviction and enthusiasm as has been displayed these past 6 years.

 

[Commonconsort]

The "party girl from Hobart", "has looked after Mary socially", "a bit of distance between Mary and Joachim" . . .

Amusing, quite amusing, but it doesn't take long before the agenda's of certain members becomes apparent. It's just funny that they think no one notices

Dont know what you mean here. My only "agenda" is to express my opinion and MY OPINION is that Pss. Marie is way more classy and elegant than Pss. I cannot understand why some people get so narked when everyone doesn't agree with them.

a lot of posters are extremely defensive when anything even remotely negative is said about Mary. I wonder why this is ?

 

[jessica79]

a lot of posters are extremely defensive when anything even remotely negative is said about Mary. I wonder why this is ?

I totally agree with you! I'm not a huge Mary fan either. I can't put my finger on it but there's something about her that is just not genuine to me.

and everyone should have a right to their own opinion

 

[greenways]

Some poster's do get very defensive, I don't believe in letting rip with "free for all abuse", but accepting other's opinions without trying to cancel out that opinion, is surely not too much to ask. (just saying)!

 

[Madame Royale]

Dont know what you mean here. My only "agenda" is to express my opinion and MY OPINION is that Pss. Marie is way more classy and elegant than Pss. I cannot understand why some people get so narked when everyone doesn't agree with them.

Then by all means I'll explain

I notice that certain members find it hard to formulate a response without making some sort of negative observation towards one person, before indulging another. I'm not defensive, just merely bemused by the apparent need to speak judgmentally of one person to 'talk up' someone else.

Imo, 'The party girl from Hobart' statement is a blatant character assassination without justification and is evidently untrue. Only seemingly said to justify the distinction in 'class' between Mary and Marie as would suit your prejudice. Further going on to suggest that Joachim thinks his brother could have chosen better is a clear indication of what your thoughts, not theirs, are about Mary. Not once has Joachim given the slightest inclination that he is not fond of Mary or did not think her suitable to be his brother’s wife. Quite the contrary.

All too often people say "I think such and such feels", when what they are really trying to say is "I believe". In essence, it's making a statement with pretence.

We all have as much of a right as each other to express an opinion, and of course no one could or should deny you that. I've expressed mine as you have expressed yours.

I suppose some people tend to be more constructive in their thoughts, whilst others are likely to find what they believe to be faults and compare. What purpose the latter serves I'm not quite sure, but it seems rather juvenile to me.

Again, you have every right to express an opinion, and I have every right to disclose my observations in reference to the discussion at hand.

 

[Muhler]

What's the problem?

Some have decided to post opinions about members of the DRF, fair enough.
Some of the opinions are in the form of interesting statements.

All I'm doing, is to ask what you base that on.
I'm simply curious.

Or expressing diagreement, surely I'm allowed to do that?

You have an opinion, fine. Let's discuss your opinion. Is that a problem?

 

[Madame Royale]

I'm not sure who you're directing your post at, if anyone in particular, but I'm in agreeance with you.

 

[RubyPrincess168]

Marie is Joachims second wife, came into the family well after Mary was settled as CP and I dont see anything in her personality that asks for trouble. Contrary to Alex, Marie seems to be happy to give no more effort than necessary when it comes down to duty or public appearance. I dont want to label her as lazy but IMO her focus is on being Lady of the Manour in Schackenborg, have some kids and a carefree life while pitying the CP couple for what they have to deal with. I see Marie as very convenient who makes herself at home in a royal household while having to add little to it, not envying those who are after the spotlight or who the spotlight is after.

Her life is so much different from Marys, dutywise, spotlightwise and characterwise. There is no reason at all to envy each other since each woman got what they were after,

I agree it appears that Marie has got the easier life of the two.

 

[Muhler]

I'm not sure who you're directing your post at, if anyone in particular, but I'm in agreeance with you.

Oh, no one in particular.
Well, mostly to those I've encouraged to elaborate on what they mean, I guess.

I'm glad we are in agreement.
Now, let's move on to debating the relationship between members of the DRF.

Yes, RubyPrincess168, she probably has.
Being the wife of the second Prince, it's only natural I think that she face less scrutiny and less demands than a crown princess.
I guess she to a large extent has more freedom to choose how much and how many official jobs she wish to undertake.
Judging from the schedule she has had so far, not least in Southern Jutland and Funen, she is hardly an idler.