Relationships between Members of the Spanish Royal Family

[lula]

 

[leidi]

Question for you and as we all know here your strong dislike of Letizia, why did you put this up? To show what? Just a bit curious why someone, anyone still wants to burn Letizia at the stake.....

There are A LOT of people here who seemingly love her and I don't see you complaining about that when they post things that defend her

Always two sides in each discussion I believe, there are people who defend her and there are people who will not do so.

Each part has the right to be heard, don't you think? Then everyone in the forum can make their own opinion on the subject.

When Felipe introduced Letizia to the public, I was pretty much ok with her but it is her attitude through the years that has put me off her more and more and more, I was not against her from the beginning but opinions change.

For example: I used to like Juan Carlos quite a bit but the last few years really put me off him when I finally researched and learned about everything he's done, I was actually relieved when he abdicated.

It is definitely not a good situation, but obviously, I don't see quite what others are seeing since Infanta Leonor is getting bad PR and the Queens are ill-mannered.

I would ask any normal person to look at their 12-year-old daughter and think to themselves what they saw. Me, I saw a young girl sick and tired of being manhandled like a puppet. It was almost a "for the love of God, stop grabbing me".

In public arena's such as Easter Mass, the area was so well secured there was no need for anyone to manhandle either child. They could have walked out behind their parents and smiled and waved to the people. Instead, it's always a photo op and you stand and you smile the way you have been told.

Most royal children, within the security bubble, move around freely but these Infantas looked like stars at the Oscar's . . . stand there with Mother, smile, turn and smile again . . . to the private photographer. Their mother always seems to have one of both by the arm, manoeuvring, positioning them. Not holding her lovely daughter's hand but moving the set piece. And those set pieces are still dressed so as to think they are the same age, like bookends!

Hell, if I was Leonor I would be tempted to stand and scream "I am a real person, I am Infanta Leonor, Princess of the Asturias and I'm too old to have to dress like my little sister and to have to have my mother hold my hand all the time".

Really, those squabbling Queens and gutless Kings in the face of those Queens, are not a good look for the Spanish royal family. King Felipe needs to control his wife and his mother, and allow the people of Spain to see their heir, to find what makes her smile, to see her as she is, The Princess of the Asturias and cheer for her.

The Princess of the Asturias had the official ceremonial presentation of the Order of the Golden Fleece, in private. Why is she not allowed to stand and wave to the people on her own?

THIS!
They have to start showing Leonor as the next link in the monarchy, JC & Sofía did that excellently with Felipe, at an even younger age than Leonor is now, it's time for the people to get to know her a little more, she still needs her space and to grow up in relative peace but being a great unknown to the people will do her more harm than good in the long run, it's better that she learns that all the privileges she enjoys come with a price.

 

[Denville]

If I was Felipe there is no way she would be heir, with this why would anyone want their child to suffer at the hands of the media and the trolls day in and day out..........Felipe even though he is devoted to Spain, either find someone else to be heir or just pick up and leave the country with your family for good......who needs this in their life?

In today's world the media has the influence to create so much good and it does just the opposite, they manipulate the public all in the name of money and greed.

why would he want anyone but his daughter to be the heir? that's the whole point of hereditary monarcy, to provide a stable family background for the leader of the country, and to provide an orderly and secure succession.

 

[hofburg]

Both women made mistakes, both are to be held accountable for their behavior and yet only Sofia is getting a pass for her bad and rude behavior.e.

Queen Sofia was neither rude or bad. Not just in that incident, but never. That cannot be said for the spouse of the current monarch.

 

[Mbruno]

All this uproar has been about Letizia only and the backlash from the people of Spain and here is beyond being nasty to the point some are telling Felipe to divorce his wife....what nerve does anyone have to say that to another person is unbelievably cruel and hateful. I have followed Letizia from day 1 of her engagement and have read how she has been treated by the media, the trolls, her inlaws and her own family all because they thought she married a cash cow so to speak......Sofia has gotten a pass for her behavior, all because she is the *former queen* and has worked her entire life for Spain, if she had *waited* a few seconds till her granddaughter finished shaking that lady's hand and then motioned her over then I honestly believe nothing would have happened.

Letizia's reaction had nothing to do with a concern that Sofia was preventing the girls from greeting other people or that taking a picture inside the church (which BTW wouldn't take more than a minute) would be inappropriate. When they had already left the church and were standing alone at the door, Sofia tried a second time to get a picture with the girls and Letizia once again blocked it. So, it's clear to me that Letizia's problem was with a 79-year-old grandmother taking a picture for private use only with her two granddaughters, whom she rarely seems, on a special family occasion. I don't see how anyone can defend that attitude as "reasonable".

The Spanish people is not biased; they are just being sensible.

 

[Queen Claude]

In terms of the reactions, overall I conclude that, fairly or unfairly, Letizia is unpopular and Sofia is popular, and, rightly or wrongly, most are siding with Sofia over the Easter incident. Beyond that I am reluctant to put too much stock in specific comments that harshly criticize Leonore, or calls for Felipe and Letizia to divorce.

I know often that Brits weigh in and caution us against judging the British people, their values and opinions, based on comments made in the Daily Mail, and I suspect that the same may apply here when it comes to the Spanish people. I am sure that the Spanish royal house has pollsters, and yeah if long-term research shows that Leonor is disliked (which I doubt), or that the disapproval of the monarchy is at an unacceptable level, and that disapproval is tied to certain members not being well thought of, then corrective action is needed.

If it turns out that some kind of initiative is needed to buck up the Spanish monarchy, I actually think that Sofia is the one who needs to be the cornerstone of that effort in the immediate future, with Leonor being gradually integrated in. It looks like Leonor becoming a more visible member of the royal family was already in the works.

 

[Denville]

Queen Sofia was neither rude or bad. Not just in that incident, but never. That cannot be said for the spouse of the current monarch.

What NEVER? She never does anything rude or bad? that seems to make her perfect which I doubt.

 

[hofburg]

What NEVER? She never does anything rude or bad? that seems to make her perfect which I doubt.

I am sure that you are very well aware, that I was referring to the public sphere.

But alas, I have yet to read a single viable argument in favor of the current monarch's spouse.

 

[wyevale]

a single viable argument

She is his LEGAL wife, and therefore the Queen of Spain. You may not approve of her, but undeniably she is THE Queen. That is her 'viability'...

 

[Al khansae]

i was annoyed by little Princess gesture before i saw that now i understand she had enough of all the touchy gestures of the adults and above all fighting over her head not nice scence at all again the adults should now better.

 

[PetticoatLane]

Letizia went way, way over the top when her mother-in-law tried to have a picture taken with her granddaughters - apparently by the official royal photographer of all people! I mean how dare she ? That pic may never have seen the light of day publicly as we all know the RFs don't issue every pic taken by their own photographers on public occasions.

We also know that royals will use photos taken publicly for their own private enjoyment - we know that Kate and William have their own copy of her holding George during his 'playdate' as a baby in NZ.

Why on earth should a picture not be taken of a doting grandmother personally with her two young granddaughters, whom we are led to believe she doesn't see very often, especially given thousands of other photos had already been taken that day and would be later? Juan Carlos was in all those pose shots of the family, maybe she prefers not to have one privately with him?

I just do not understand this control freakery of Letizia, it is utterly bizarre.

I will take a different opinion on Marie Chantal than most - for once it was kind of refreshing to hear a 'royal' be honest in public! She knows she's never going to be an actual royal and so has got on with her life by all accounts, why should she not publicly defend a family member who's clearly been publicly humiliated in a pretty painful way? Points for candour in my book.

 

[hofburg]

She is his LEGAL wife, and therefore the Queen of Spain. You may not approve of her, but undeniably she is THE Queen. That is her 'viability'...

Although you have qoutted my message, your wording had no connection to it's content.

This thread has dealt mostly with the last incident and all its remifications. I've stated that "I have yet to read a single viable argument in favor of the current monarch's spouse" and indeed I've not.

The monarch's spouse current title has nothing to do with the "arguments" made by her fans here.

 

[alvinking]

"Si no quieres que los abuelos se hagan fotos con las niñas, no las traigas"

This is what HM King Don Juan Carlos supposedly told his son and daughter in law. wow

 

[Denville]

"Si no quieres que los abuelos se hagan fotos con las niñas, no las traigas"

This is what HM King Don Juan Carlos supposedly told his son and daughter in law. wow

Sorry but could you please translate?

 

[Denville]

Although you have qoutted my message, your wording had no connection to it's content.

This thread has dealt mostly with the last incident and all its remifications. I've stated that "I have yet to read a single viable argument in favor of the current monarch's spouse" and indeed I've not.

The monarch's spouse current title has nothing to do with the "arguments" made by her fans here.

I assume that it means that Letiizia is the Kings wife.. and the queen. So people who are apparently calling for him to divorce her, are out of line...

 

[Somebody]

Translation of Juan Carlos' words: if you don't want the grandparents to take pictures with the girls, don't bring them.

 

[Gawin]

If I understand this article correctly - I'm using Google Translate - Letizia didn't want pictures taken because she "tries to distinguish between what is work and what is private life" and at that time her granddaughters were working.

But for Sofia "that line does not exist, since in her private life she continues practically doing the same as in the official one."

The article also discusses the relationship between Felipe & Letizia and the rest of the Spanish royal family.

https://www.elespanol.com/reportaje...x-no-quieres-abuelos-traigas/297721381_0.html

 

[hofburg]

I assume that it means that Letiizia is the Kings wife.. and the queen. So people who are apparently calling for him to divorce her, are out of line...

This thread was in no way dominated by this alleged call for him to divorce her. Some posters have mentioned it being posted on social media. So I'm a bit puzzled as to how my words could have been construed to address it.

I'll repeat my words:
"This thread has dealt mostly with the last incident and all its ramifications. I've stated that "I have yet to read a single viable argument in favor of the current monarch's spouse" and indeed I've not."

 

[lula]

Translation of Juan Carlos' words: if you don't want the grandparents to take pictures with the girls, don't bring them.

Yes, according to Salvame, the most yellow and crappy gossip tv program in Spain. The source has enormous credibility.

Really, some criticize the Spaniards and you are copying the worst of their gossip press that lacks credibility ... for this and for any subject.

 

[AdmirerUS]

... Now they question Felipe. If he can't handle a turbulent family how can he handle a turbulent Spain? ...

Many people asked the same question about his father. Seriously, I have never known anyone that "controlled" their family. I've known bullies, badgerers, influencers, parents that threatened, coerced, held hostage, gave freedom, enabled, embattled, embittered, loved, loathed, hovered and ignored family. But I have never met anyone that controlled their family.

And it has likewise been my experience that turbulence happens. Effective rulers take measures to calm the turbulence and give hope, but they rarely are able to anticipate and hold off turbulence before it happens. JMO

 

[Queen Claude]

When it comes to Easter in Mallorca, is it clear who are the hosts and who are the guests?

Is it the King and his family's event and they are joined by other relatives, or is it the Queen Mother's event and her son, the current King, attends to continue a tradition that pre-dates his ascension?

 

[Elektra]

Letizia has hardly set a foot wrong during her 14 years as a royal. She makes one mistake and suddenly she is the vilest of all ? Incredible.

And about Felipe supposedly not being able to reign on Spain if he can't even his family : I really fail to see a link between the two. Is someone who has family troubles really unable to do a good professionnal job ? I don't think so...

 

[wyevale]

about Felipe supposedly not being able to reign on Spain if he can't even his family

One would have to be a 'dyed in the wool' Republican not to consider that Felipe VI has done a good job since his accession..

 

[wyevale]

she is the vilest of all ?

In reality that accolade goes to the Infanta Cristina.. brought up by that matchless paragon of virtue 'Santa Sofia'...

 

[Somebody]

Yes, according to Salvame, the most yellow and crappy gossip tv program in Spain. The source has enormous credibility.

Really, some criticize the Spaniards and you are copying the worst of their gossip press that lacks credibility ... for this and for any subject.

I was just answering Denville's question who asked for a translation (of a quote I didn't post). Not sure how that makes me the one copying the worst gossip press available on this and other subjects...

Thanks in advance for taking that accusation back.

 

[tommy100]

Translation of Juan Carlos' words: if you don't want the grandparents to take pictures with the girls, don't bring them.

Though I understand the source is not reliable, these may be the most sensible words spoken about the whole thing.

If Letizia had an issue with Sofia being photographed with the girls then this event just should not have happened. Why invite the grandparents then stop them being photographed with them? It makes no sense, if Letizia is unhappy then she should work behind the scenes to stop Sofia and Juan Carlos attending. Certainly it seems at odds with Juan Carlos attending for the first time in years.

It Letizia really does want a difference between official and private that makes no sense at all in these circumstances. Is she seriously suggesting she is happy for them to be photographed outside the church but not inside, do those 10 yards really make all the difference? (especially as its been said elsewhere Letizia and the girls were pictured at the altar- major double standards if true) If Letizia is that pedantic then there are much bigger issues at play.

Most people aren't making a fuss about this one incident, its a moment in time and everyone has a moment where it looks like they have done something wrong. The reason its being talked about so much is that its indicative of a much bigger issue inside the Royal Family.

 

[Somebody]

For clarification: The 'them' referred to the girls (which is clear in Spanish as them was female) who shouldn't have brought not to excluding Sofia (for whom this mass is far more important than for Letizia) and Juan Carlos.

 

[lula]

Queen Sofía is the only one in the family who wishes to spend Holy Week in Mallorca. King Felipe and his family only go there the weekend for the mass and the photo... and they do not do it because they like it, but so that Sofia can continue occupying the palace.

The problem is that Marivent is not a private property of the Royal Family, nor is it even owned by the State.

The family arrived in Mallorca by an agreement between the government of the islands and King Juan Carlos ... the Royal Family promoted the islands and the local government paid for the palace. The situation was and still is controversial, because the palace was donated by the family of a painter who wanted it to become a museum.

Sofía has always invited there who she has wanted, her relatives have spent vacations there ... something that the relatives of Juan Carlos or Letizia have not done.

The problem is that with the years, Juan Carlos and the local politicians ended up turning Marivent into a Zarzuela Palace 2 that grew in an exaggerated way. They even reformed nearby buildings that belonged to the army, and made smaller houses for Felipe and his sisters. King Felipe and his family do not occupy Marivent, but Son Vent.

In the end it was with those same politicians from Mallorca with whom Urdangarin did his illicit business.

After the scandals, and Sofia being the only one who spends now long seasons there, the maintenance of that palace is unsustainable for the use that is given to it. King Felipe reached an agreement with the government of the islands, and now the gardens are open to the public when Sofia is not there. That will calm the situation for a while.

He wants to respect that his mother Sofía loves that palace, but for that, he and his family are obliged to go to Mallorca and attend to the press.

If Sofia wants to continue spending long periods in Mallorca, and invite her relatives, or Cristina and Iñaki without problems ... the best thing would be to buy or rent a private house.

 

[carlota]

it has been a week and this is all spain is still talking about. new videos of the fight have surfaced, there's whatsapp jokes on this (whatsapp is used a lot in spain), hundreds of 'memes' and even a facebook app that lets you add letizia's back, ruining your profile picture - some of my spanish friends have used it ? (app is called 'letizia "Jodefotos" Ortiz', which translates roughly as letizia 'photoruiner' ortiz - you can check what it looks like here: https://www.rockandpop.cl/2018/04/a...facebook-sube-el-momento-letizia-como-filtro/)

so yes, it seems that this 'incident' has had enormous resonance for spain and spanish people who are sick and tired of their corrupt institutions which place people in situations of power which they abuse.

letizia should know better, as an ex journalist, what power something so minimal can have and behave appropriately.

 

[Mbruno]

Sorry but could you please translate?

If you don't want the grandparents to take pictures with the girls, don't bring them along.