Relationships between Members of the Spanish Royal Family


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She does not need to be an assertive, professional Queen. The main job description is: shut up and be nice. Some Queens think they have to be "active" in microcredits, illiteracy, refugees, etc. But in honesty: people could not care less. The want to see lovely Catherine, charming Mathilde, exuberant Máxima exactly because of what they are and really not for what they do.

So Letizia should try to loose her control freak image and bevome more the sweet and charmant and affable and approachable spouse of their popular King.

Whoa, that attitude about women to *shut up and be nice*, is this how men still in the world think today......good grief how disgusting and disgraceful that any man thinks like that of any woman in any position today. So to be a Queen you must what..*obey* men and the people....since when does this or should this apply to Letizia or even Sofia, well I can see how some ladies in the royal families that were born decades ago in another time period would do that, yet today.......not on your life would any woman do that I would hope.

While being nice, sweet, charming, and approachable, a woman can be strong, independent and forthright in her own person. I think that attitude belongs in the dark ages of history and if this is what the Spanish people want and expect of their queen then they are surly living in those dark ages.
As I have said here before, Both women made mistakes, both are to be held accountable for their behavior and yet only Sofia is getting a pass for her bad and rude behavior. Just because Letizia's daughter is the heir does not mean that she has no say in what she does, Letizia and Felipe are raising their children to the best that they can in this world today and I don't blame them for being careful of who is around them for there are really ugly people out that that would do something stupid if given the chance regardless of how many body guards are around. Letizia/Felipe should never close their eyes when it comes to the safety of their girls, NEVER. And I don't think with all the terrorism that Spain has gone through is in the past........I believe all royals families are deeply aware of the safety of their children in today's age.......as all of us should be.
 
Really if you are not Spanish, it is difficult to understand the Spaniards.:lol:

Probably this opinion describes the situation quite well ...

"The fact is no longer worth anything to journalism, the new god is speculation. No one knows, and it's better for the show to be that way."

"The People wanted a plebeian queen and when they had her, they never forgave her for it. To the point that you can suspect that they wanted a plebeian queen precisely to never forgive her."

Lo que aprendió Leonor | Opinion Home | EL MUNDO

https://translate.google.es/transla...6547de2704e96118b45af.html&edit-text=&act=url

Yeah, poor Letizia.

Every single person in every single stage of her life has been against her.

What a difficult life she's had, no true friends at all because people have always been against her :cool:

And now she has to face a horrible family who has never accepted her or allowed her to marry their son or...
 
Payton, it is not coincidental that there were so many bodyguards.

The Catalan independence movement has its support groups in the Balearic Islands, and the anti-system rapper condemned a few weeks ago for the lyrics of his songs is from Palma. With the rise of violent acts in Catalonia, they really expected that there could be some problem or protest... it really was a surprise that everything was so calm. They had probably even prepared the girls for that possibility.
 
No, I haven't seen that before.

In fact most of the incidents mentioned in this thread are new to me.

That was when Spain won the WC in 2010.

And that's why this incident has escalated so much, it's not the first time Letizia looks crazily possessive of her daughters in public or manhandles them.
 
Whoa, that attitude about women to *shut up and be nice*, is this how men still in the world think today......good grief how disgusting and disgraceful that any man thinks like that of any woman in any position today. So to be a Queen you must what..*obey* men and the people....since when does this or should this apply to Letizia or even Sofia, well I can see how some ladies in the royal families that were born decades ago in another time period would do that, yet today.......not on your life would any woman do that I would hope.

While being nice, sweet, charming, and approachable, a woman can be strong, independent and forthright in her own person. I think that attitude belongs in the dark ages of history and if this is what the Spanish people want and expect of their queen then they are surly living in those dark ages.
As I have said here before, Both women made mistakes, both are to be held accountable for their behavior and yet only Sofia is getting a pass for her bad and rude behavior. Just because Letizia's daughter is the heir does not mean that she has no say in what she does, Letizia and Felipe are raising their children to the best that they can in this world today and I don't blame them for being careful of who is around them for there are really ugly people out that that would do something stupid if given the chance regardless of how many body guards are around. Letizia/Felipe should never close their eyes when it comes to the safety of their girls, NEVER. And I don't think with all the terrorism that Spain has gone through is in the past........I believe all royals families are deeply aware of the safety of their children in today's age.......as all of us should be.

I could not agree more.

In modern monarchies the queen consort is vital, as we have witnessed in this thread.

A queen consort who is only nice and amiable will soon lose respect and inspire even fewer in modern monarchies.
This is hardly new. For the past almost 200 years queen consorts have and increasingly so, been involved in so called "soft" issues like charity or social issues.
Today queen consorts must also be able to represent their countries on their own and they are expected to be well educated and quick to learn. Not to mention have very well-developed people-skills.
 
This post is two-fold.

First I'd like to explore the underlying causes for the relationship between the Queens going sour.

And secondly I'd like to look at the consequences if this continues.

Okay, I understand Queen Letizia and Sofia once had a good relationship, or at the very least a working relationship.
When did the first evidence of the a deterioration of their relationship show itself to the public? - Because that may hint to what may have caused it.
I've seen Christina being suggested as the cause. I'm not sure I buy that one. Queen Sofia, and her extended family, if any, understand that a Monarch sometimes have distance himself from certain people, even family members. Queen Sofia is experienced enough to know the complicated issues in regards to the public, let alone the royal family's image and the political concerns. - And that of course applies to the Monarch's wife.
And in anyway it may only be for a few years then Christina may queitly be left back into the fold.
So while Christina may have been the trigger, I doubt that is the thing that began to sour their relationship to such an extent. IMO something happened prior to that.

Queen Sofia's extended family (of fellow royals mind you!) clearly have serious issues with Queen Letizia! It's not just about an disagreement about lacking support of a family member, (Christina) or a disagreement about what role Leonor and Sofia should have in public. This is personal!! They are genuinely hopping mad at Queen Letizia!
Queen Letizia haven't exactly helped the situation by snubbing her mother-in-law, a Queen no less, in public. To mention one episode described here in this thread.
On the other hand there is a reason why she would do something as foolish as that. What? Tit for tat? Payback for previous humiliations?
Or are we talking about Queen Letizia being too sensitive and even vindictive? I.e. she has been waiting until she became Queen, so that she could give some serious payback? - If so, we have a serious psychological issue on our hands!
Or is it bitterness that has been build up over the years, due to her being subjected to humiliations? Snubs? Wounding remarks? And now that bitterness can no longer be contained?

Queen Letizia has in my opinion made a number of serious mistakes, both PR-wise, but also on a personal level. If it is true that she has denied Leonor and Sofia access to their own grandparents, then it's bad! I can hardly imagine anything that would hurt and infuriate otherwise loving grandparents much more!
If that is the case, then King Felipe is a wimp IMO! He should have put his foot down and said of course his parents can be with his children without being supervised.
Let me be clear, King Felipe has not impressed me in this. He has allowed this to go on without putting a decisive end to it. He is basically the only one who can put an end to it. He is now supposed to be head of the family.

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And from that we go to the consequences if this persists.
Because if this feud is allowed to persists and King Felipe cannot control it and stop it with the necessary means, like therapy. He will be forced to take sides and soon... - In such a stand-off he will IMO almost certainly side with his wife. He is after all married to her and I assume he loves her. She is the mother of his children, the mother of the heir, who is facing enough difficulties as it is in the coming years. A divorce is hardly an option. At worst he can unofficially separate her, but not divorce her. - And what if he genuinely feels that Queen Letizia is the one who has been wronged here?
And to be very cynical: His parents will become more and more frail in the coming years, while his wife remains - in fine form...

However, judged from the critique and descriptions I have read about Queen Letizia here in the past few days, it's my impression that she is a very strong-willed woman.
I think, I'm actually convinced, that if King Felipe sides against her, she will divorce him. - At best she will separate him. Because to her that would be a betrayal.

I don't envy King Felipe, because he has some unpleasant decisions to make and soon!

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Another matter I think I will mention is more psychological.
It has been mentioned again and again that Queen Letizia is keeping her daughters very close whenever they are in public. It's to me almost like the girls are some sort of psychological anchor, a mental life-jacket if you will. As long as she has the girls under control, she has someone who is guaranteed to be on her side. Someone who will remain her allies.
It's a psychological mechanism you sometimes see with people who under severe stress.
Okay, it could be because she's a control-freak, but I honestly don't think so. To me this is more a symptom of someone who mistrusts most of those around her - for whatever reason.
In such a situation you tend to protect (perhaps over-protect) what is most precious to you.

- And thus ends this psychological amateur-analyses from me.

As always Muhler a Brilliant comment and for me only here, I think you hit the nail on the head with the Bold Highlights that I made. From day 1, Letizia has been dealt by the media, the trolls of Spain, her in/laws and her own family with nothing but dishonestly, gossip, hate, jealousy, and backstabbing at every turn........how could she not build that wall around herself to protect herself........I have been in a situation where people that did not even know my name attacked me daily till I found a way out.....got that brick wall built very high on one word only anymore..........TRUST is the most important word in the world to me, just ask my sister. Letizia I bet has little if no trust in those around her and that cause unbearable stress for her outlook in life. I a world away in viewing Letizia and reading about her understand a bit why she is the way she is if that is the case........what some have done to her in the very beginning is disgusting and down right hideous to do to someone else. I always like to think that I should walk in someone else's shoes before making a judgement call on something yet as someone once said to me, *OH of the human race I do despair at times*.......boy the knives are out for Letizia and she should hold that head high and walk on by........?
 
Doña Leonor is just a school kid! Let her have an undisturbed school time.
:ohmy:

That’s just it, she isn’t just a school kid. She’s a Crown Princess and her people should see her regularly, particularly with her father. Should a tragedy occur, Leonor will be Queen in a blink of an eye. That’s the drawback to all these abdications and young monarchs people seem to crave, imo. Children don’t get a chance to grow up under the radar, like in the UK or Denmark, for example. I feel the same way about all other minor heirs and monarchs, not just Spain.

I’m not saying she should attend state dinners or anything like that, but there must be some short, casual events she could attend. Queen Mathilde takes all her kids to concerts, even the youngest who is 9, Frederik and Mary take their kids to Lego and Tivoli, Victoria takes her kids to receive Christmas trees at the palace, etc. These are all easy, fun events and they give a chance for the people to ‘see’ the kids. It’s good PR, but more importantly it’s good training for the children. Look at Princess Ingrid, she’s 14, and she hosted the Cambridges in her sculpture park and guided them in English, all without her parents or grandparents interfering.
 
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I could not agree more.

In modern monarchies the queen consort is vital, as we have witnessed in this thread.

A queen consort who is only nice and amiable will soon lose respect and inspire even fewer in modern monarchies.
This is hardly new. For the past almost 200 years queen consorts have and increasingly so, been involved in so called "soft" issues like charity or social issues.
Today queen consorts must also be able to represent their countries on their own and they are expected to be well educated and quick to learn. Not to mention have very well-developed people-skills.

What a nonsense, with permission. Haakon married Mette-Marit because he felt in love with her. The same for Albert and Charlène. Or Guillaume and Stéphanie. No one took a job description for consorts to see if they are educated, or have people-skills. That was no any point at all. William simply felt in love with Catherine, not with an applicant for a job.

We see differences in the consorts. The one is activistic, the other is more traditional. But they are what they are. Mary will not be more popular when she attends seventeen events per week or when it is ten per month.

No one expects Madame Macron or Mrs Trump to do this or to do that and how much etc. The same counts for royal consorts. I dare to say: the more activistic the royals (ladies with a HUGE carbon footprint warning against climate change, or über-wealthy ladies speaking with deprived youngstes about the importance of saving, etc.) the more criticism and sarcasm.
 
:previous: Oh Lord....!!

I will ask again....where are her friends/defenders??!!!:sad:

ETA: Okay. I read the entire thing...not as negative as I thought it would be. But she's definitely pro-Sofia.
 
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:previous:
:previous: At least Leonor was defended.
 
Olivia de Borbon is a Spanish noble so its no surprise I didn't think she said anything too bad but there was praise for queen Sofia.
 
You speak as if Letizia had arrived at a happy and perfectly normal family, where everyone maintained an idyllic relationship... and not to an unstructured family with complicated dynamics.

Juan Carlos with Corinna, Elena on the brink of divorce, and Iñaki with his business ... it was not a good scenario. Jaime and Iñaki did not have a good relationship, Elena only got closer to her sister after the divorce, but before they made different lives.

Jaime and Letizia connected well, and perhaps some things would have been different if he had not left the family.
 
At the end of the day, Letizia’s biggest supporter is the only one who matters. The King.

If the Spanish monarchy is so fragile that it depends on the current Queen getting along with her mother in law, maybe it deserves to collapse.
 
People do not assume that Felipe is like his father, as people do not assume that Sofia is like Federika. So it is absurd to say that people assume that Leonor is like her mother, is a girl who will grow and make her own way.

In the last few days I've seen several references to Sofia being like her mother Frederika (by those who favor Letizia over Sofia; so it's not meant as a compliment - just like the idea that Leonor is like her mother is not to be interpreted as a compliment).

I certainly hope that Leonor will be given some freedom to explore who she is and wants to be - given the restrictions that her role brings and the perceived restrictions imposed on her by her mother.
 
:previous:
:previous: At least Leonor was defended.

As well she should have been. The most painful thing about this entire debacle is seeing a child of 12 caught in the middle of two adults she loves who she must be sensitive enough to know do not get along.

And rarely are children of that age emotionally sophisticated enough not feel guilty that they are somehow the cause since the conflict centered on them.

This is exacerbated by the abuse being hurled at the young princess on social media which I pray she will not find out about.

I feel like giving everyone involved a slap and a time out....except the child.:bang:
 
:previous: Good grief! Are everyone and their budgies within the extended family commenting on this?!?
 
To me it all boils down to Letizia being too controlling of her daughters. This clip is an incident I talked about earlier, at the ceremony of abdication Letizia glared at the girls and told them how to set their hands to sit "properly". At the time I thought it was kinda charming Letizia wanted them to sit properly. But looking at it again, its another example of her being controlling of her girls and their image. When you look at the clip there is nothing wrong with the way either of the girls are sitting so why 'correct' them?
 
At the end of the day, Letizia’s biggest supporter is the only one who matters. The King.



If the Spanish monarchy is so fragile that it depends on the current Queen getting along with her mother in law, maybe it deserves to collapse.



I agree and I think he needs to show that support
 
Thank you, Lula, for the following post. :flowers: You have put this whole thing into a context. On its own the 'dust-up' seems way over the top, but seen as a generational issue, it makes sense. Thank you. Great perspective supplied.

Yesterday in a radio program they made two teams ... those who supported Sofia were generally older people ... who supported Letizia young people.

For the elderly, Sofía is a woman who endured Juan Carlos because it was her obligation ... for young women, Sofia gave a very bad example doing it.

For some Sofia is a professional because she was born a princess ... for others Letizia is a professional because before she has worked and has lived in real life.

Sofia will always be the queen who criticized homosexuals ... Letizia who opened the palace doors to them.

Sofia is the queen of post-Francoism (has been surrounded by people close to Opus Dei)... Letizia the queen of the 21st century ... and social change in Spain has been brutal.

Society changes, and regardless of whether people are conservative or progressive there are things that according to age are seen differently. It is true that young people are usually the most progressive, and also the most republican ... but it is also true that these people grow and mature ... and they can change their ideas , but not with the same values as the adults of today.

Operation Triunfo is a musical contest that triumphed 15 years ago in Spain and had a big success. A few months ago they decided to broadcast it again, and the people were quite pessimistic about whether they would succeed years later. The program has been a huge success, and it has been because it has managed to connect with the values that young people and a large part of the people now defend.

Spain moves between two generations ... those that were born in the Franco regime and grew up in it and with the principle of democracy, and those that were born fully in democracy... and the differences go much further than the different political ideologies.
 
To me it all boils down to Letizia being too controlling of her daughters. This clip is an incident I talked about earlier, at the ceremony of abdication Letizia glared at the girls and told them how to set their hands to sit "properly". At the time I thought it was kinda charming Letizia wanted them to sit properly. But looking at it again, its another example of her being controlling of her girls and their image. When you look at the clip there is nothing wrong with the way either of the girls are sitting so why 'correct' them?

Yes, I remember this very well and that death glare stayed with me.

It wouldn't have bothered me nearly so much if it was countered with images of the Infantitas playing, laughing, giggling, throwing a tantrum romping with their pets(do those poor girls even have a pet??! :ermm:)and being as spontaneous and charming as you often see the Royal children of Britain, Sweden, Belgium and Denmark.

But I don't remember ever seeing those images from Leo and Sofia. Every beautiful hair in place, impeccably dressed, and looking perfectly under control in every photograph.

Just like their mother.
 
The amount of attention and anger over this is insane. Like... wow! LOL This woman must be the devil in designer clothing judging by the way everyone is on her. Jesus, priorities.
 
I saw the videos of the incident i was stunned the two ladies handle this very badly both of them..what on earth they were thinking making a show of them selves in public they are supposed to be above this
Now the main point here is why Queen Letizia feel the urge to interfere in situation betwezn her daugthters and their grandmother?
do Queen Sofia had a history of bad behavior with her grandchildren? Mandhandle them pmaybe? if so i can understand Lerizia if no i'll say she overeacted and acted like controlling freak
 
I agree with some posters here that Leonor needs to start attending some events, and if she attends with her father only, it will greatly benefit the family. If she appeared with her father, lets say, next week (an example), I'm sure this current problem will slowly fade out.
 
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