Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill & Family, General News Part 3: Sept 2017 -

[CrownPrincessJava]

I don't see this current King wanting his grandchildren to be just "ordinary" citizens.

I absolutely agree. At least while he's King and Regent.

As for Madeleine and Chris: if they planned to stay in the US permanently and their children will be educated there, Riksdag may demand to strip them from royal titles and exclude from the line of succession.
If such a project attain a majority, the King will not have an alternative and will have to sign it.

It seems both Chris and Madeline tried to appease the King by living in London thinking they could eventually live as ordinary citizens. They were close to both sides of family and Madeline would have support. Their actions clearly show that they want to live like "ordinary" citizens, where Chris firstly refused a title. Then moved the family to London. Madeleine and Chris moving even further away is forcing the King's hand regarding the position of their children. It may seem drastic, but if you have such a stubborn parent, drastic times call for drastic measures. Madeleine knows if the Swedish parliament want to strip her children of their HRH and titles, the King will have no choice.

 

[LadyFinn]

Besides Madeleine's work for the Childhood foundation, for which I don't know if she gets payed, they could both get the opportunity to hold positions on the boards of the numerous royal foundations for which I'm certain they'd get some kind of fee. These foundations are said to be worth at least a billion SEK. I can't remember any specifics, but now that Princess Christina who were on the board of several of these foundations has stepped down from them there are possible openings for the two to take over after her.
Neither Carl-Philip or Madeleine will ever go hungry even if they would get no funding at all.

The members of the royal family don't get money at least from all of their positions at the boards of the royal foundations.
At the website of The Crown Princess Couple's Foundation it says
"Styrelsen består av följande oavlönade personer" = The Board consists of the following hireless persons
Styrelse - Kronprinsessparets stiftelse

 

[Queen Claude]

Carl Gustaf may have his preferences and be a strong personality but I don't think that he is bullying and browbeating an unwilling Madeleine and Chris and as a result they have to resort to passive-aggressiveness in order to live the lives they want to live.

From their wedding, to their children's christenings to their participation in other Swedish royal events, I see no indications of distress or duress on the part of Madeleine and Chris, save the occasions when they are trying to corral the free-spirited Leonore.

Speaking of Leonore, when she was born in New York the effort was made to declare the delivery room part of Sweden so that it could be said that Leonore was born in Sweden, although I'm not sure if it actually counted. Nicholas was born in Sweden in the summer and a few days after his uncle's wedding, so that seems like the natural order of things. For Adrienne's birth in late winter of this year, Madeleine parked herself in Sweden and a statement was issued that Madeleine and Chris wanted their third child born in Sweden. According to Wikipedia all three children have the surname Bernadotte, in the case of Leonore and Nicolas credible sources are noted.

It does not seem to me that Madeleine and Chris are trying to escape Sweden and Madeleine's royal heritage nor that all that we have seen regarding Madeleine and Chris's children having titles, duchies, royal christenings and other royal accoutrements are being foisted on them by a strong-willed Carl Gustaf. By the way, I don't think that Chris is anti-royal at all, rather he was almost forty years old when he married Madeleine and he would have had to make drastic changes to his life in order to fulfill the requirements of being a duke of an off-the-beaten path duchy that would not be passed on to his children.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Carl Gustaf may have his preferences and be a strong personality but I don't think that he is bullying and browbeating an unwilling Madeleine and Chris and as a result they have to resort to passive-aggressiveness in order to live the lives they want to live.

From their wedding, to their children's christenings to their participation in other Swedish royal events, I see no indications of distress or duress on the part of Madeleine and Chris, save the occasions when they are trying to corral the free-spirited Leonore.

Speaking of Leonore, when she was born in New York the effort was made to declare the delivery room part of Sweden so that it could be said that Leonore was born in Sweden, although I'm not sure if it actually counted. Nicholas was born in Sweden in the summer and a few days after his uncle's wedding, so that seems like the natural order of things. For Adrienne's birth in late winter of this year, Madeleine parked herself in Sweden and a statement was issued that Madeleine and Chris wanted their third child born in Sweden. According to Wikipedia all three children have the surname Bernadotte, in the case of Leonore and Nicolas credible sources are noted.

It does not seem to me that Madeleine and Chris are trying to escape Sweden and Madeleine's royal heritage nor that all that we have seen regarding Madeleine and Chris's children having titles, duchies, royal christenings and other royal accoutrements are being foisted on them by a strong-willed Carl Gustaf. By the way, I don't think that Chris is anti-royal at all, rather he was almost forty years old when he married Madeleine and he would have had to make drastic changes to his life in order to fulfill the requirements of being a duke of an off-the-beaten path duchy that would not be passed on to his children.

You've raised good points. Just as a technicality, I don't think there was an effort made to declare the New York delivery room part of Sweden, but rather the doctors in New York were declared to be substituting for Swedish officials in order to perform the traditional ceremony. https://www.kungahuset.se/press/pre...nesbekraftelsen.5.19aaa1d3143e3582c02b77.html

 

[Mbruno]

. Madeleine knows if the Swedish parliament want to strip her children of their HRH and titles, the King will have no choice.

There is no need for the Swedish parliament to strip them of their titles. The Act of Succession, which is currently in force, already does that automatically if Madeleine's children are not raised in Sweden. The only outstanding question is what "being raised in the realm" means exactly. The Royal Court interpreted it as a requirement that the children move permanently to Sweden when they reach grade school age, speak Swedish fluently and get a Swedish secondary school diploma/certificate.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Maybe the court can just declare the schoolteachers and school to be part of Sweden too.

 

[Pranter]

I'm kinda thinking Chris and Madeleine aren't really that concerned about their children keeping any royal titles. Not like they won't still be members of the family.


LaRae

 

[Somebody]

There is no need for the Swedish parliament to strip them of their titles. The Act of Succession, which is currently in force, already does that automatically if Madeleine's children are not raised in Sweden. The only outstanding question is what "being raised in the realm" means exactly. The Royal Court interpreted it as a requirement that the children move permanently to Sweden when they reach grade school age, speak Swedish fluently and get a Swedish secondary school diploma/certificate.

Are there other monarchies where being in the line of succession is tied to having the highest title available or is this unique to Sweden?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

There is no need for the Swedish parliament to strip them of their titles. The Act of Succession, which is currently in force, already does that automatically if Madeleine's children are not raised in Sweden. The only outstanding question is what "being raised in the realm" means exactly. The Royal Court interpreted it as a requirement that the children move permanently to Sweden when they reach grade school age, speak Swedish fluently and get a Swedish secondary school diploma/certificate.

The Act of Succession was also in force when HRH Prince Oscar, Arvfurste (Hereditary Prince) of Sweden, Duke of Gotland, lost his right of succession for unequal marriage, but he never lost his title of Prince though his other titles were taken from him. It seems that at the minimum, the King decides about the loss of the Prince/Princess title.


There are several constitutional differences between losing the right to the throne when marrying and losing it owing to being raised outside of Sweden.

Art. 4. In accordance with the express provision of Article 2 of the Instrument of Government of 1809 that The King shall always profess the pure evangelical faith, as adopted and explained in the unaltered Confession of Augsburg and in the Resolution of the Uppsala Meeting of the year 1593, princes and princesses of the Royal House shall be brought up in that same faith and within the Realm. Any member of the Royal Family not professing this faith shall be excluded from all rights of succession.

Art. 5. A prince or princess of the Royal House may not marry unless the Government has given its consent thereto upon an application from The King. Should a prince or princess marry without such consent, that prince or princess forfeits the right of succession for himself, his children and their descendants.​

First, the Act of Succession is unclear regarding stripping princes and princesses raised outside of Sweden of the right to the throne. Of course, as you pointed out, the interpretation of the Royal Court has been clearly presented.

Second, the Act of Succession is unclear about what would occur if Leonore, for instance, were raised in the United States but decided to raise her own children in Sweden. It would become complicated if Leonore were stripped of her title, while her children were entitled to royal titles and succession rights.

Are there other monarchies where being in the line of succession is tied to having the highest title available or is this unique to Sweden?

What would you consider "the highest title available"? Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that in most Middle Eastern and Asian monarchies, all members of royal families have royal titles.

 

[xenobia]

Even if I'm swedish, I'm not sure if it's technically possible for Madeleines children to remain prince(ss) but not in line of succession? Their place in the succession is just a technical thing now that there are four other kids in their generation before them.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Even if I'm swedish, I'm not sure if it's technically possible for Madeleines children to remain prince(ss) but not in line of succession? Their place in the succession is just a technical thing now that there are four other kids in their generation before them.

Since it was possible for Prince Oscar Bernadotte (the Prince Oscar in my previous post), I assume it would be possible for Princess Madeleine's children. In a similar case, although King Carl XVI Gustaf's sisters have never been in the line of succession, the three who left the Royal House remained Prince(ss) even after they lost the title Prince(ss) of Sweden.

 

[LadyFinn]

Since it was possible for Prince Oscar Bernadotte (the Prince Oscar in my previous post), I assume it would be possible for Princess Madeleine's children. In a similar case, although King Carl XVI Gustaf's sisters have never been in the line of succession, the three who left the Royal House remained Prince(ss) even after they lost the title Prince(ss) of Sweden.

Princesses Margaretha, Désirée and Christina lost their positions as a royal princess (they are not HRHs) and were given courtesy titles "princess", which they use as princess Margaretha, mrs. Ambler and so on.
So maybe king Carl Gustaf could give a courtesy title "princess" to Leonore and Adrienne and title "prince" to Nicolas, if they would be taken out of the line of succession.

 

[Somebody]

What would you consider "the highest title available"? Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that in most Middle Eastern and Asian monarchies, all members of royal families have royal titles.

That would depend on the country.

The claim seems to be that Madeleine's children would loose their title if they aren't raised in Sweden because they would be removed from the line of succession (which they haven't been so far, so it will be interesting to see what happens when Leonore turns 6). If I understand your post correctly, you don't believe the above to be true.

In Sweden the highest title is being a royal prince(ss) of Sweden. In most European countries titles and being in line to the throne aren't inseparably tied (in most Middle Eastern and Asian countries those in line to the throne typically seem to be titled but not all titled people are necessarily in line to the throne).

European examples:
Norway: no title for Martha Louise's children
Denmark: Joachim's children are highnesses instead of royal highnesses
The Netherlands: Constantijn's children are count/countess. Margriet's children are princes of Orange-Nassau (not the highest title as that would be prince(ss) of the Netherlands) while no longer in line of succession
Belgium: Anna Astrid is not a princess of Belgium but in line of succession
Luxembourg: Amaluia and Liam are of Nassau instead of of Luxembourg
The UK: many non-titled people in the line of succession; Peter Phillips being the highest
Spain: Elena's and Cristina's children aren't infante/as.
Monaco: most are not titled
Liechtenstein: all male-line family members are titled. The princesses aren't in line to the throne and don't think loosing your place in the line of succession will lead to loosing the princely title.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The claim seems to be that Madeleine's children would loose their title if they aren't raised in Sweden because they would be removed from the line of succession (which they haven't been so far, so it will be interesting to see what happens when Leonore turns 6). If I understand your post correctly, you don't believe the above to be true.

I believe that the Riksdag and the Government will disregard technicalities and submit to any decisions or interpretations the King might give on the matter of titles or succession, provided it does not impact the cost of the monarchy, since there seems to be no political appetite for enacting legislation to interpret the Act of Succession or royal titles.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Could it be that the initial idea was that Madeleine would not attend but that they are reconsidering because of the backlash?

whatever madeleine does do or doesn't do will cause controversery because her actions are inconsistent or at least confusing.

this thread will get a lot longer if madeleine skips the nobels but travels to sweden for her mothers 75th birthday in december.

 

[LadyFinn]

whatever madeleine does do or doesn't do will cause controversery because her actions are inconsistent or at least confusing.

this thread will get a lot longer if madeleine skips the nobels but travels to sweden for her mothers 75th birthday in december.

It would be extremely strange if Madeleine wouldn't come to queen Silvia's 75th birthday on 23rd December. The royal family attends always at the formal gathering of the Swedish Academy on 20th December, so if that is organized this year too (no info that it wouldn't happen), maybe Madeleine comes to Sweden before that.

 

[LadyFinn]

Expressen's royal expert Karin Lennmor at her chronicle today:

Get more missions, Princess Madeleine!
What a dissapointment! Princess Madeleine leaves walk-over and does not come to the Nobel Prize this year either!
In times when "Sweden's finest party" already lost a bit of its shine, we would really need you, Madeleine!
I have a gut feeling and have had it only since Madeleine and her family quite hurriedly moved to Florida in August.
Is she about to leave us forever, let all this with being the princess drain into the sand?
It has happened in the past: princesses who married themselves, changed their lives, initially maintain some official duties - but then it will be quiet ...
We do not want this to happen with Madeleine, I'm quite convinced that many of the country's royalists want her to remain a glamor princess. A glamorous young woman who enjoys both her big and growing family, but also has a mission for Sweden; here at home or abroad.
Of course she wants time to be mom, probably even more children are planned. But Madeleine must also find work tasks and dedication that feels important and natural to her.
Childhood - which actually fills 20 years next year - is close to both the princess and the queen's heart. But a single commitment, is it enough? What's more?
Our environment of course. Big sister Victoria has already realized that.
Working with environmental issues is so dead on target for the royals, there is nothing controversial or political, every human being must agree that our environment is most important of all.
Likewise, it is with both humanitarian and feminist issues. Of course, a princess can work for women's rights and in important women's issues, nor is it political but totally universal.
Madeleine has plenty of time to think at home in Florida.
KARIN LENNMOR_ Skaffa dig fler uppdrag, prinsessan Madeleine!
Translation

 

[Sarahbellar]

It would be extremely strange if Madeleine wouldn't come to queen Silvia's 75th birthday on 23rd December. The royal family attends always at the formal gathering of the Swedish Academy on 20th December, so if that is organized this year too (no info that it wouldn't happen), maybe Madeleine comes to Sweden before that.

One factor might be whichever school the children are in. While I don't think this probably the factor this year it could be in years to come. In the United States all public schools and many private schools have strict policies about absences. In the school where I teach, if you are absent for 8 days within 60 days you will "fail the term" but also can be brought to court. Each state has a different policy but there are serious repercussions for students missing numerous days of school. If they stay in Florida for a few years, I could predict this becoming the argument to why they miss even more important events in the future.
(Please Note: I am not saying this is what happening for her, I am just predicting what could happen in the future.

 

[Mbruno]

One factor might be whichever school the children are in. While I don't think this probably the factor this year it could be in years to come. In the United States all public schools and many private schools have strict policies about absences. In the school where I teach, if you are absent for 8 days within 60 days you will "fail the term" but also can be brought to court. Each state has a different policy but there are serious repercussions for students missing numerous days of school. If they stay in Florida for a few years, I could predict this becoming the argument to why they miss even more important events in the future.
(Please Note: I am not saying this is what happening for her, I am just predicting what could happen in the future.

U.S. schools are not normally in session though on December 20-23.

 

[Pranter]

Also private schools (if her children will attend those) may have more flexibility about time off..or taking schoolwork with you.


LaRae

 

[LadyFinn]

Svensk Damtidning writes at their paywall article "New details about Madeleine's life in Miami"
Princess Madeleine wants to be as close to her children as possible.
According to Svensk Damtidning, there is a special reason why Madeleine chose to settle in Miami with her family at the moment.
Nya detaljer om Madeleines liv i Miami _ Svensk Damtidning

Stoppa pressarna "New information about Madeleine's life in Miami"
Now there are new details about Madeleine's existence in Florida.
Staff relieves the princess so she gets the maximum opportunity to do nothing.
Princess Madeleine raised strong feelings when she and husband Chris O'Neill chose to go in luxury exile in Florida.
It seems, however, that the dream life in Florida is even more comfortable than anybody could have imagined. New information now provide a breathtaking insight into how to completely escape duties and responsibilities.
Svensk Damtidning reveals that the princess also has staff that helps her to relieve her to maximize her enjoyment. The family has a nanny who takes care of the three children.
- She is not employed but helps if needed, Margareta Thorgren said to Svensk Damtidning.
Princess Madeleine's nanny is British and named Megan.
One of the reasons for the luxury move as claimed is that Madeleine could engage more in the Childhood charity, which Mom Silvia started in 1999. As far as is known, however, Madeleine's only contribution to the organization so far is that she attended a gala dinner in New York a couple of months ago.
Nya uppgiften om Madeleines lyxliv i Miami

 

[Denville]

Perhaps she just wants a private and comfortable life... with a nice climate, plenty of staff and no duties.....

 

[Mbruno]

Svensk Damtidning writes at their paywall article "New details about Madeleine's life in Miami"
Princess Madeleine wants to be as close to her children as possible.
According to Svensk Damtidning, there is a special reason why Madeleine chose to settle in Miami with her family at the moment.
Nya detaljer om Madeleines liv i Miami _ Svensk Damtidning

Stoppa pressarna "New information about Madeleine's life in Miami"
Now there are new details about Madeleine's existence in Florida.
Staff relieves the princess so she gets the maximum opportunity to do nothing.
Princess Madeleine raised strong feelings when she and husband Chris O'Neill chose to go in luxury exile in Florida.
It seems, however, that the dream life in Florida is even more comfortable than anybody could have imagined. New information now provide a breathtaking insight into how to completely escape duties and responsibilities.
Svensk Damtidning reveals that the princess also has staff that helps her to relieve her to maximize her enjoyment. The family has a nanny who takes care of the three children.
- She is not employed but helps if needed, Margareta Thorgren said to Svensk Damtidning.
Princess Madeleine's nanny is British and named Megan.
One of the reasons for the luxury move as claimed is that Madeleine could engage more in the Childhood charity, which Mom Silvia started in 1999. As far as is known, however, Madeleine's only contribution to the organization so far is that she attended a gala dinner in New York a couple of months ago.
Nya uppgiften om Madeleines lyxliv i Miami

That kind of reporting is quite damaging to the princess. If indeed she has chosen "to completely escape duties and responsibilities" and " go in luxury exile in Florida", it becomes increasingly difficult to justify her and her children's continuing membership of the Swedish royal house.

 

[ladongas]

I don’t think school attendance would be an issue at this time. In
Florida, a child must be 5 years old by September 1 in order to enroll in kindergarten. Leonore won’t be 5 until early next year. So travel during the school year wouldn’t be an issue.

 

[katiebird]

What a nasty mean spirited article.

God forbid she uses the maternity leave time she would be entitled to in Sweden, that every other Swedish mother would use.

 

[Denville]

That kind of reporting is quite damaging to the princess. If indeed she has chosen "to completely escape duties and responsibilities" and " go in luxury exile in Florida", it becomes increasingly difficult to justify her and her children's continuing membership of the Swedish royal house.

Perhaps she doesn't want to be part of Swedish Royal house.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Perhaps she doesn't want to be part of Swedish Royal house.

That's fine but in this case she should go ahead and live with the consequences, a la Märtha Louise of Norway.

 

[Mari-Anne]

Svensk Damtidning writes at their paywall article "New details about Madeleine's life in Miami"
Princess Madeleine wants to be as close to her children as possible.
According to Svensk Damtidning, there is a special reason why Madeleine chose to settle in Miami with her family at the moment.
Nya detaljer om Madeleines liv i Miami _ Svensk Damtidning

Stoppa pressarna "New information about Madeleine's life in Miami"
Now there are new details about Madeleine's existence in Florida.
Staff relieves the princess so she gets the maximum opportunity to do nothing.
Princess Madeleine raised strong feelings when she and husband Chris O'Neill chose to go in luxury exile in Florida.
It seems, however, that the dream life in Florida is even more comfortable than anybody could have imagined. New information now provide a breathtaking insight into how to completely escape duties and responsibilities.
Svensk Damtidning reveals that the princess also has staff that helps her to relieve her to maximize her enjoyment. The family has a nanny who takes care of the three children.
- She is not employed but helps if needed, Margareta Thorgren said to Svensk Damtidning.
Princess Madeleine's nanny is British and named Megan.
One of the reasons for the luxury move as claimed is that Madeleine could engage more in the Childhood charity, which Mom Silvia started in 1999. As far as is known, however, Madeleine's only contribution to the organization so far is that she attended a gala dinner in New York a couple of months ago.
Nya uppgiften om Madeleines lyxliv i Miami

I'm always surprised when I see that someone actually reads those nasty gossip sites and even shares their stories
So she has a nanny...wow.

 

[LadyFinn]

Perhaps she doesn't want to be part of Swedish Royal house.

I think that Madeleine has been thinking for many years to resign from her title as the Princess of Sweden. She hasn't wanted to have an own foundation on her name, like the king and queen, Victoria and Daniel and Carl Philip and Sofia. Victoria has also Crown Princess Victoria's Fund. Daniel has Prince Daniel's Fellowship and its entrepreneurial programme and Prince Daniel's grants at the Heart-Lung Foundation, Carl Philip has Prince Carl Philip's Racing Cup.
And that is one reason which causes problems for Madeleine. Victoria and Daniel are active at their Foundation which includes Generation Pep. Carl Philip and Sofia are active at their Foundation and Sofia also in Project Playground. We see articles about their work in their Foundations. Madeleine works in World Childhood Foundation, but we see hardly anything of her work. Mostly the glamourous dinner she attends once a year. And after Carl Philip and Sofia launched their Instagram, they tell there about their work. About Victoria's and Daniel's work we see comprehensively at court website and social media. Madeleine hasn't a lot to tell about her work at her social media.
Madeleine has the right to her maternity leave, but during the eight months after Adrienne's birth she has a lot less work events than even Sofia after Gabriel's birth, not to speak about Victoria working after Oscar's birth. Even Estelle has attended this year to more events than Madeleine.

 

[Lee-Z]

Perhaps she doesn't want to be part of Swedish Royal house.

That's fine but in this case she should go ahead and live with the consequences, a la Märtha Louise of Norway.

I think that Madeleine has been thinking for many years to resign from her title as the Princess of Sweden

Assuming she wants "out" and is fine withe consequences, is that actually possible? Is the King keeping her "in the game"?