Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill Expecting First Child

[Meraude]

Will it have an Impact on the line of succession, if the children are Born in Sweden or NY? (i.e. only Swedish People can become in line of the throne)?
Bye Bine

I don't think it matters where the children are born, but if I understand the text of the order of succession correctly they have to be brought up in Sweden to be in the line of succession, according to §4 in the Swedish Order of Succession, which also says that those in line of the succession have to be Lutheran.

sålunda skola ock prinsar och prinsessor av det kungl. huset uppfödas i samma lära och inom riket.

 

[LadyFinn]

Chris O'Neill to Svensk Damtidning about the child: "Thank you. I'm very happy and excited".

 

[nascarlucy]

I would think that one would want or at least give their child the option of succession rights and then when the child is an adult then they can make the decision of whether or not to be in succession to the throne. The decision then is in their hands and not others who made the decision for them.

 

[cepe]

I would think that one would want or at least give their child the option of succession rights and then when the child is an adult then they can make the decision of whether or not to be in succession to the throne. The decision then is in their hands and not others who made the decision for them.

So in order to give their child the option of succession rights (to a throne that they will not inherit unless there is a catastrophe), Chris has to give up his job; move to Sweden; find fulfilling job; find somewhere to live; and (possibly??) change his religion??? All that for a maybe?

I think they would be mad to do that unless they wanted (for themselves) to be in Sweden.

 

[mslewis]

So in order to give their child the option of succession rights (to a throne that they will not inherit unless there is a catastrophe), Chris has to give up his job; move to Sweden; find fulfilling job; find somewhere to live; and (possibly??) change his religion??? All that for a maybe?

I think they would be mad to do that unless they wanted (for themselves) to be in Sweden.

I totally agree. Chris O'Neill is a man who has worked all his life and been extremely successful; he is proud to be a British/American with the freedom to do what he wants whenever he wants. Why on earth should he give up his freedom to become some sort of Prince of Sweden with no job and nothing to do but follow his wife around cutting ribbons and shaking hands? No real man would willingly do that just because his child MIGHT become King/Queen. Also, the child would not even have the O'Neill name and his line would end. I, in fact, applaud Mr. O'Neill for standing his ground and refusing to accept a title or give up his rights and refusing to learn Swedish. I think Mady should be proud that she has a real man and not someone who wants her for her money/title/position.

 

[MarNoe]

I, in fact, applaud Mr. O'Neill for standing his ground and refusing to accept a title or give up his rights and refusing to learn Swedish.

Chris has already stated he in the process of learning Swedish. Doesn't mean he plans to move there but it sure would make it easier and more comfortable for those times when he is asked to participate in events.

 

[cepe]

I think learning Swedish is a good thing.

 

[nascarlucy]

I haven't read the succession rights but where would it say in the succession rights that Chris O'Neill would have to give up his job, his freedom or do what he wants to do. Does it say in the succession rights that the child they have would have to give up their name?

I don't know what the benefits of having succession rights would be versus not having them. Pros and cons for each and I'm no expert on the topic. I was thinking of succession rights as it relates to inheritance laws or other laws which would benefit this person as opposed to someone who didn't have these rights.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Yes, but I think they said that because they don't want paparazzi/tabloids speculating at every picture of a fuller belly.

I think the pregnancy was not planned at all and was a honeymoon surprise. They very specifically mentioned wanting to wait for parenthood in at least two interviews.

 

[COUNTESS]

I think this child will be brought up in New York. What his/her rights to a throne, they will never inherit means, I cannot say. Only Chris and Madeleine can make that decision. When Chris remained his own man and not part of the palace process, by keeping his name and citizenship. He made this statement loud and clear.

 

[Ish]

I totally agree. Chris O'Neill is a man who has worked all his life and been extremely successful; he is proud to be a British/American with the freedom to do what he wants whenever he wants. Why on earth should he give up his freedom to become some sort of Prince of Sweden with no job and nothing to do but follow his wife around cutting ribbons and shaking hands? No real man would willingly do that just because his child MIGHT become King/Queen. Also, the child would not even have the O'Neill name and his line would end. I, in fact, applaud Mr. O'Neill for standing his ground and refusing to accept a title or give up his rights and refusing to learn Swedish. I think Mady should be proud that she has a real man and not someone who wants her for her money/title/position.

I think you're kind of jumping to things a bit here.

Chris doesn't have to be a titled man in order for his children to have succession rights. I somehow doubt he has to be a Swedish citizen either. He doesn't have to give up any of his freedoms, nor will his children be denied the opportunity to have their father's name.

The succession in Sweden requires that all people in the succession be bought up in Sweden. This means that if Chris and Maddy want their child(ren) to be in the succession they have to move back to Sweden. For Chris that would mean giving up his current job, as he's based in New York. It does not mean that he couldn't get a new job in Sweden, although his lack of Swedish may encumber that.

I applaud Chris for choosing not to have a title and for (with Maddy) finding a way to make their lives together. However, I don't applaud an individual for refusing to learn the native language of their partner, particularly when it's one that she and her family still use. It's a bit rude and disrespectful. Instead I applaud those who make an effort to learn such a language, especially as languages are hard and don't always come easy to people. In the case of Chris and Maddy I think it's even more important, because while he may not wish to be a part of that life, in marrying into the SRF he's guaranteeing that some part of his life will be connected to that life, and in not learning (or at least trying) he's disrespecting Maddy, her family, and her nation.

 

[Lenora]

I applaud Chris for choosing not to have a title and for (with Maddy) finding a way to make their lives together. However, I don't applaud an individual for refusing to learn the native language of their partner, particularly when it's one that she and her family still use. It's a bit rude and disrespectful. Instead I applaud those who make an effort to learn such a language, especially as languages are hard and don't always come easy to people. In the case of Chris and Maddy I think it's even more important, because while he may not wish to be a part of that life, in marrying into the SRF he's guaranteeing that some part of his life will be connected to that life, and in not learning (or at least trying) he's disrespecting Maddy, her family, and her nation.

You have made a good point here.

But I remember their post-wedding interview to a Swedish magazine, where Chris mentioned that he is really trying to learn Swedish, he even bought some learning materials, but it's still hard for him. Since he already speaks not only English, but also German, I don't really know how difficult is for him to acquire Swedish. I guess it would be easier to learn a language from the same linguistic group. Or maybe, he doesn't have strong linguistic abilities, like a few other people married into royal or princely families.

 

[Ish]

You have made a good point here. But I remember their post-wedding interview to a Swedish magazine, where Chris mentioned that he is really trying to learn Swedish, he even bought some learning materials, but it's still hard for him. Since he already speaks not only English, but also German, I don't really know how difficult is for him to acquire Swedish. I guess it would be easier to learn a language from the same linguistic group. Or maybe, he doesn't have strong linguistic abilities, like a few other people married into royal or princely families.

Oh, yeah. I didn't mean to imply that Chris himself is being disrespectful, or that he's not making an effort to learn the language. I was trying to speak more generally while also disagreeing with the idea that Chris should be applauded for not having learnt Swedish.

I don't know how fluent Chris is in Swedish, or how much he's struggling to learn the language. I think he should be applauded for trying.

 

[Anne2]

I didn't mean to imply that Chris himself is being disrespectful, or that he's not making an effort to learn the language. I was trying to speak more generally while also disagreeing with the idea that Chris should be applauded for not having learnt Swedish. I don't know how fluent Chris is in Swedish, or how much he's struggling to learn the language.

In this case I can mention my own experience, and confirm that Swedish is a difficult language to learn!! Although the grammar is fairly simple, vocabulary appears often quite different from other languages. It has indeed common concepts with German and Dutch(yes!) but still... I don't study it very intensively, I understand rather well when written, but find it still quite difficult to follow a tv programme, but I never lived there. It is also difficult to get a decent accent.

I guess Chris can rely on good teachers, but he may miss time, and once he is back in NY, Sweden is far away...
Getting a good knowledge would help him to feel more confortable when he participates in official engagements in Sweden, besides raising appreciation from the population.

You may have heard that the linguistic skills of queen Silvia in Swedish are still criticised, although she is fluent in several languages, including German. It is true that for her short speech during the engagement announcement between V&D, she was sticking very much to her paper, after many years of living in Sweden.
I would not be surprised that queen Silvia and Chris like to speak German together.

 

[amaryllus]

Still, the child should learn it as grandchild and niece of Swedish monarchs, besides being multilingual huge bonus for the future. With such parents, he or she should get a very worldly education indeed.

 

[Meraude]

I don't know how fluent Chris is in Swedish, or how much he's struggling to learn the language. I think he should be applauded for trying.

As a Swede I would say that it doesn't really matter whether Chris would learn to speak Swedish or not, even if he and Madeleine would be living here, as I doubt he would be representing the SRF on his own, and thus he would not need to be fluent in Swedish. Most Swedes speak and understand English very well, and there are Swedish international companies that have English as their "company language", so it's possible that he would be able to find work even if his knowledge of Swedish was nil (although socially he might feel a bit isolated if he wouldn't understand what people around him was talking about when not speaking with him). As far as I know princess Lilian used English, not Swedish, when meeting people, even if she understood Swedish.

 

[amaryllus]

''Where is the bathroom''?

The most important thing in any language

Honestly, he may never be fluent, will probably never have to be but the basics are what count.

 

[LadyFinn]

Johan T Lindwall speculates on his video report, that if Madeleine gives birth in New York, it will be at Mount Sinai hospital. Women who give birth there get a suite with a view to Central Park, flat screen TV and room service. Madeleine and Chris have said that they will be in Sweden to plan about where to give birth, but Madeleine hasn't informed yet where the baby will be born. If Madeleine will give birth in Sweden, it would happen at the Karolinska Sjukhuset (where Estelle was born) or at Sophiahemmet, which opens a private maternity ward just in March when the child should be born. At Mount Sinai it costs over 20000 SEK a day to stay. Madeleine will continue her work at Childhood and attend at the Nobel celebrations and at queen Silvia's 70th birthday celebrations.
Sjukhuset där Madde kanske kommer att föda Nyheter

 

[Eve2Eden]

If Madeleine is going to be in Sweden in late December (Queen Silvia's birthday) that probably means she is planning to give birth there. Don't airlines forbid pregnant women from flying in their third trimester?

 

[LadyFinn]

If Madeleine is going to be in Sweden in late December (Queen Silvia's birthday) that probably means she is planning to give birth there. Don't airlines forbid pregnant women from flying in their third trimester?

At the finnish flight company Finnair pregnant women are permitted to fly up to the end of the 36th week of their pregnancy, and I have read that is the policy for most commercial airlines.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Does anyone know if Madde plans to give birth in Sweden? If the child is going to be an HRH and in the line of succession, I see this as a possibility.

As for Chris learning Swedish, I've read all Scandinavian languages are difficult, and some find it much easier to learn a language than others. He must also have a work schedule that makes it hard to want to sit down and learn a language after a day on Wall Street.

 

[Biri]

At the finnish flight company Finnair pregnant women are permitted to fly up to the end of the 36th week of their pregnancy, and I have read that is the policy for most commercial airlines.

But don't they should have a permit from their gynaecologists?

 

[GracieGiraffe]

But don't they should have a permit from their gynaecologists?

We are talking largely about textbook pregnancies, which I hope Madde will have. Should anything not become "textbook," the doctor will advise her not to fly.

From this point on, Madde's appearance at anything is really tentative. Most likely she will attend, but perhaps not.

 

[LadyFinn]

But don't they should have a permit from their gynaecologists?

From the website of the swedish flight company SAS
"If you are pregnant carrying one child you are welcome to travel with us until four weeks before expected delivery without any medical certificates or restrictions on flying time. From four to two weeks before expected delivery, a special medical certificate (MEDC), is required. The travel must also be authorized by SAS Medical Department."
Travel during pregnancy - SAS

 

[LadyFinn]

Does anyone know if Madde plans to give birth in Sweden? If the child is going to be an HRH and in the line of succession, I see this as a possibility.

As for Chris learning Swedish, I've read all Scandinavian languages are difficult, and some find it much easier to learn a language than others. He must also have a work schedule that makes it hard to want to sit down and learn a language after a day on Wall Street.

Like I have written to the swedish forum many times, no one knows where Madeleine is planning to give birth. The press claims that she was first planning to give birth in Sweden and now she is considering to give birth in New York. According to the press Victoria has tried to persuade Madeleine to give birth in Sweden, because Victoria knows that if Madeleine is giving birth in NY, she will be criticized. The child doesn't have to be born in Sweden to became a HRH and be in line of succession, but the child should be mainly be raised in Sweden.

 

[KitKat2006]

German Magazine Gala wrote a while ago that the child of Chris and Madeleine will be a Prince / Princess and a Royal Higness. I'm not sure if this is official, but they wrote they have read it in Svensk Damtidning who have it from Axel Calissendorff who apperently is a lawyer of the swedish court.

Prinzessin Madeleine + Chris O'Neill: Prinzen-Frage geklärt | GALA.DE

Google Übersetzer

 

[LadyFinn]

German Magazine Gala wrote a while ago that the child of Chris and Madeleine will be a Prince / Princess and a Royal Higness. I'm not sure if this is official, but they wrote they have read it in Svensk Damtidning who have it from Axel Calissendorff who apperently is a lawyer of the swedish court.

Prinzessin Madeleine + Chris O'Neill: Prinzen-Frage geklärt | GALA.DE

Google Übersetzer

Yes, the king's solicitor Calissendorff said it to Svensk Damtidning a month ago, I wrote about it in this post
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...xpecting-first-child-35754-7.html#post1598266
When Svensk Damtidning asked from Calissendorff about this just before the wedding, he said that he can't answer to the question but the king decides about the titles. So obviously the king has made the decision after having heard that Madeleine is pregnant.

 

[principessa]

Would the baby also be HRH or HH?

 

[KitKat2006]

It would just be HH

 

[Baron Brockdorf]

Would the baby also be HRH or HH?

to my knowledge the children of royal dukes/duchesses and princes/princess in Sweden are made HRH's, despite them being not the chilldren of the heir, this has already happened in the past, the children of Oscar II's children where made HRH's, princes and princesses +royal Dukes and Duchess
eg Prince Carl, the Duke of Vastergotland at the time, was the 3rd child of King Oscar II, his youngest son, was born a prince with the HRH and ducal titles.