Princess Anne and Family General Information and Questions

[Vampwitch000]

Phillips titles

Just want to know,
1. What title did the queen offer to give Mark Phillips upon marrying the Princess Royal?
2. If Mark Phillips accepted the offer, will he be HRH?
3. If Mark Phillips accepted the offer, will Peter and Zara Phillips be HRH and be known as Prince Peter and Princess Zara?
4. Can the Queen make Peter and Zara HRH and Prince/Princess by their own right?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Just want to know,
1. What title did the queen offer to give Mark Phillips upon marrying the Princess Royal?
2. If Mark Phillips accepted the offer, will he be HRH?
3. If Mark Phillips accepted the offer, will Peter and Zara Phillips be HRH and be known as Prince Peter and Princess Zara?
4. Can the Queen make Peter and Zara HRH and Prince/Princess by their own right?

I don't know if the specific title has ever been made public or whether there was just a question - do you want a title - answer - no and that was all that was done.

If Mark had accepted a title it wouldn't have been HRH. It would have been more likely to have been an Earldom based on the precedent set with Princess Margaret's husband being made an Earl. Margaret too was the daughter of a monarch.

The only way that Peter and Zara would have become HRH Prince/Princess is if the Queen had made Mark and HRH Prince in his own right and the chance of her doing that was zilch.

The Queen can make them a Prince or Princess in their own right but why would she? They are adults and living life in a very private way so why would they want those titles now? As two of the Queen's eligible grandchildren aren't using the HRH Prince/Princess title why would she give it to two lower in the order of succession when it is clear that they are trying to reduce the numbers with it.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Just want to know,
1. What title did the queen offer to give Mark Phillips upon marrying the Princess Royal?
2. If Mark Phillips accepted the offer, will he be HRH?
3. If Mark Phillips accepted the offer, will Peter and Zara Phillips be HRH and be known as Prince Peter and Princess Zara?
4. Can the Queen make Peter and Zara HRH and Prince/Princess by their own right?

1. We don't know, it was never made public.
2. Had he accepted an earldom, he would not have been styled HRH as he was not royal, just married to one. Husbands in the BRF do not take their styles and titles from their wives.
3. If he had accepted an earldom, Peter and Zara would have been The Lord Peter Philips and The Lady Zara Philips. They are not entitled to the style HRH and titular dignity of Prince/Princess of the UK because they are grandchildren of the monarch in the female line, not the male line.
4. The Queen being the fount of all honor in the UK can do whatever she likes, but seeing as how both Peter and Zara have lived 30 years now without a royal title, I doubt seriously she'd confer one on them now. It would make no sense.

 

[Vampwitch000]

Peter Philips

Let's just think that Peter Philips was made a HRH Prince of his own right by HM the Queen(I know it is unlikely but lets just think) will his children be princes/princesses?

 

[HRHofNothing]

Do you think that Mark Tindall will be offered a peerage on his wedding day? I remember that HM offered Peter one on his wedding day.

Also, I am sure that if they get married while The Queen is still reigning the York girls husbands will be offered peerages and probably accept

 

[Sunnystar]

Let's just think that Peter Philips was made a HRH Prince of his own right by HM the Queen(I know it is unlikely but lets just think) will his children be princes/princesses?

No. Per many other wise, astute folks on these forums, the 1917 Letters Patent only gives an HRH to the eldest son of the eldest son of the heir apparent (ie - William's eldest son). All other male-line great-grandchildren of the monarch are styled as the children of a duke.

Hypothetically if the equal primogeniture bill actually were to be passed by Parliament and override the 1917 LP only on the issue of gender, it still wouldn't change the fact that Peter is not the eldest child of the heir apparent and therefore his eldest child would not be entitled to the HRH as a future monarch.

At best, Peter's children will never be styled as anything more than children of a duke/duchess (forbidding any horrible disaster that left Anne or Peter on the throne or next in line).

Do you think that Mark Tindall will be offered a peerage on his wedding day? I remember that HM offered Peter one on his wedding day.

Also, I am sure that if they get married while The Queen is still reigning the York girls husbands will be offered peerages and probably accept

Honestly, I don't think that Mike Tindall will be offered a peerage on his wedding day. I could be wrong though. Perhaps a year or two in the future, if he leads England to the Rugby World Cup title or she wins an Olympic gold medal, then HM would offer a peerage as a recognition not only of their athletic achievements but also of Zara's status as her granddaughter.

The York girls... The last male-line granddaughter of the monarch to marry was Princess Alexandra and her husband did turn down a peerage offered. I honestly have no idea if the York girls or their parents would have enough PR sense to turn an offer down.

 

[Biri]

There is a greater chance that the people in Hong Kong will know who Peter is as it is only 13 years since his grandmother ceased to be the Head of State of Hong Kong and many British businesses etc are still based there.

Also Peter's wife had to know who he is when they met. (she is Canadian)

 

[Lumutqueen]

Also Peter's wife had to know who he is when they met. (she is Canadian)

That doesn't mean she knew who he was, Anne didn't exactly make Peter and Zara 'known' when they were born.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Also Peter's wife had to know who he is when they met. (she is Canadian)

There is a lot of evidence - from the horse's mouth in fact - that she didn't know who he was until she had been on a couple of dates. She saw a picture of him with the Queen or something and said something along the lines of 'that looks like Peter' and her family didn't believe her and then she showed them a photo of her Peter and they realised that her Peter was the Queen's grandson Peter.

 

[Zonk]

I believe she saw Peter standing next to a picture of William in the paper or a special on William,and she said That looks like Peter. And then she went on the internet and saw who he was. Her mother is famously to have replied, "Oh Autumn...what have you done?" I took that as an inference life will not be the same dating a member of the BRF. Even though Peter does lead a rather low key life in comparison to his cousins and even his sister.

I doubt that the Queen will create a title for Mike and I don't believe the rumous that she offered one to Peter. They have thes best of both worlds ----being members of the extended royal family without technically being royals.

 

[Grandduchess24]

I have a couple of questions
Peter and Zara Phillips have royal blood but no title and they are the queen's grandchildren but do they have a special title or status with BRF

Peter Phillips got married to autumn Kelly at Windsor castle so did the Queen give him a gift as her grandchild and what about savannah Phillips being related to the royal family I am sure Peter and autumn visit the queen to let elizabeth II and Phillip see their great grandchild

 

[yvr girl]

Peter and Zara do have a status as grandchildren of the Queen. They enjoy precedence as grandchildren of the sovereign.

I would expect that the Queen did give a wedding present to Peter and Autumn, but to my knowledge it wasn't made public.

The Queen and the Duke of Edinburough were at Savannah's christening.

 

[HRHThePrince]

I've watched a couple of interviews in the past that Peter Phillips gave & although he says he enjoys not having a title I sometimes wonder how true is that?

I mean let's be for real... I'm sure he has gotten jealous at some point in his life. His cousins are Royal Highnesses and Princes & Princesses. Protocol dictates that he & his wife should bow & curtsey to them. Prince William is a Knight of the Order of the Garter & Thistle... Prince Harry will no doubt follow these same honours when Prince Charles becomes king. I just wonder if he ever feels left out or unequal all because he's a grandson in the female line.

 

[NGalitzine]

I suspect he looks at their lives, the official duties required of them, the interference of the press and the paps, and thinks "there but for the grace of God" and thanks his parents everyday that he was able to live a life that for the most part is pretty normal and outside of the public eye. People I think look at the big royal ceremonies, the palaces, the uniforms and the jewels and think "Oh isnt that wonderful, I would love that life" but they dont think of the down side or the personal sacrifices it involves.

 

[Skippyboo]

I just read an article in the Telegraph saying that Zara was denied a royal title and is better of for it.

Mark Philips was offered and earldom just like Tony Armstrong Jones and turned it down. Say he didn't. Peter would be Viscount something and Zara - Lady Zara. They never would be Prince or Princess. They would be just like the children of Princess Margaret.

Zara would be able to do the same things that she did. No one complained about marrying Mike because she is so far down the line of succession. William and Harry relationships were scrutinized because of William is a direct heir and Harry is "the bad boy prince".

 

[tommy100]

I suspect he looks at their lives, the official duties required of them, the interference of the press and the paps, and thinks "there but for the grace of God" and thanks his parents everyday that he was able to live a life that for the most part is pretty normal and outside of the public eye. People I think look at the big royal ceremonies, the palaces, the uniforms and the jewels and think "Oh isnt that wonderful, I would love that life" but they dont think of the down side or the personal sacrifices it involves.

I agree. I doubt that Peter or Zara wish they had a Royal title, to be honest they have it best - they get some of the best bits of being royal but without all that comes with it. They both live their lives pretty much out of the public eye when you compare them to William, Harry or even IMO Beatrice and Eugenie and much of the media attention is pretty much in keeping with what a famous sporting couple like Zara (an Olympian and international horsewoman) and Tindall (an international Rugby player) might expect.
They live on their mothers large country estate and I imagine Anne doesn't exactly charge them rent for doing so, they can probably go to any Royal residence and explore it yet don't have to live in them surrounded by security and staff. They can attend big royal events then go back to quiet lives. IMO they have the best deal of the lot.

 

[Countessmeout]

I have a couple of questions
Peter and Zara Phillips have royal blood but no title and they are the queen's grandchildren but do they have a special title or status with BRF

Peter Phillips got married to autumn Kelly at Windsor castle so did the Queen give him a gift as her grandchild and what about savannah Phillips being related to the royal family I am sure Peter and autumn visit the queen to let elizabeth II and Phillip see their great grandchild

Though no title, they do have a place in the order of precedence in any royal/family event. Peter falls between James and Viscount Linley, in the order of precedence for gentleman. Similarily, Zara falls between Louise and Viscountess Linley.

Orders of precedence in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peter and Autumn were not only married at Windsor castle, but with the family in attendance including the queen, so I'd assume gifts were involved. The queen and duke attended the christening of Savannah, and I highly doubt they missed Isla's. We know that Peter and Autumn are involved in the public royal events, and at the very least, we know they attend Christmas at Sandringham. When we see pictures of the family walking to church, both Peter and Autumn are there.

 

[Cynderella]

I think that Anne's children have the best deal of all of the grandchildren. Attend all the events as grandchildren of a sovereign and then go back to a private life with no paps.


We have no pictures of Autumn or Zara grocery shopping or taking their children out. No one ever comments on their clothes. The are always properly attired and no one judges them the way the others are judged.

 

[Denville]

I
We have no pictures of Autumn or Zara grocery shopping or taking their children out. No one ever comments on their clothes. The are always properly attired and no one judges them the way the others are judged.

I don't think that that's entirely due to their position in the succession, its also their own common sense. Zara gets on with her job and her life.. She's not looking for anything but money to do her riding. She's a sensible woman. I don't know much about Autumn but she's probably similar.

I've watched a couple of interviews in the past that Peter Phillips gave & although he says he enjoys not having a title I sometimes wonder how true is that?

I mean let's be for real... I'm sure he has gotten jealous at some point in his life. His cousins are Royal Highnesses and Princes & Princesses. Protocol dictates that he & his wife should bow & curtsey to them. Prince William is a Knight of the Order of the Garter & Thistle... Prince Harry will no doubt follow these same honours when Prince Charles becomes king. I just wonder if he ever feels left out or unequal all because he's a grandson in the female line.

why would he be jealous? He is so far from the throne he knows he would never be in line for it. He has his own life, he is well off and has a job, but within reason he can do what he likes and has no press attention.. beyond a minimum.

 

[Countessmeout]

Autumn has flown under the radar. Mainly because Peter is a private citizen. Unlike Zara and Mike who are sporting celebrities, Peter is only seen 1. rare royal event 2. his sister's riding events though. Autumn gets as much PR as the DILs of DOK and DOG. Autumn is not a career woman like Countess of Ulster or St Andrews or others, she lives a seemingly quiet life. They got bad PR for selling wedding photos but since then no. Her clothes do get critiqued at Easter. Christmas, Trooping, Ascott and such. But the media has no need to follow her shopping as there is no interest to spin. She makes articles but because she and the girls go watch Zara a lot, and help wrangle Mia.

 

[Skippyboo]

He doesn't have to bow to his cousins. The family only bows to the Queen and Philip. So not until William is King, would Peter have to bow to him. The Philips kids were never going to be HRHs at best Mark would have gotten a Earldom and Peter would have a viscount courtesy title and Zara a Lady like the children of Princess Margaret.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Mirabel]

I've watched a couple of interviews in the past that Peter Phillips gave & although he says he enjoys not having a title I sometimes wonder how true is that?

I'm doubtful too, mostly because I can't see why anyone wouldn't want a title! (Especially if you didn't have to make any appearances or do any of the work). Why not?
Even in this day and age, there are advantages to having a title, and I can't see any negatives!

I think Anne and Mark Phillips were wrong to decide for their children, I really do. They should have made their own decision when they were adults.

 

[Denville]

If Zara and Peter do something that merits their getting a title, they'll get one. But they dotn give out hereditary titles much these days and I think that Mark and Anne were quite right.
What would be the good of Peter Being Vct Gatcombe and Z being Lady Zara Phillips? It might help them get a table at a restaurant, but then they're the queen's grandchildren so they hardly need it for that.
Mark had his horsey career as Capt MP and he didn't want to be Earl of wherever.. it would not help him and it might hinder him in that people would think he was an idle aristocrat or that he had married Anne for an earldom.
I'm sure that either Peter or Zar would rather get a title for their work than because of who they are related to...

 

[AdmirerUS]

I'm doubtful too, mostly because I can't see why anyone wouldn't want a title! ...

I'm not sure titles have the value they once did. Even people with titles seem to downplay the utility. Don't want to pull us off topic, but "call me William" or "I'm Harry" are great examples.

 

[Countessmeout]

I'm doubtful too, mostly because I can't see why anyone wouldn't want a title! (Especially if you didn't have to make any appearances or do any of the work). Why not?
Even in this day and age, there are advantages to having a title, and I can't see any negatives!

I think Anne and Mark Phillips were wrong to decide for their children, I really do. They should have made their own decision when they were adults.

How The kids were never offered, Mark was. Whatever choice he made, his kids had to live with. Mark accept Earl Gatcombe, his son would have no choice to be a Viscount or not. Should Mark have been forced by his children when they were old enough?

The queen could have given them peerages on marriage like William. It would have been their choice. She either chose not to or the kids asked her not to. Anne's earlier choice had no influence on that.

 

[Lumutqueen]

If Zara and Peter do something that merits their getting a title, they'll get one.

No they won't. Doesn't work like that. A title is given on marriage or via hereditary passing, neither of which they have.

 

[Denville]

Yes they could get a title, but it would probably not be a hereditary one. They would not get titles on marriage as William did because they are not Princes and not in line for the throne. But if they did something of note, it is possible that they could be given a title...just not a hereditary one.

The queen could have given them peerages on marriage like William. It would have been their choice. She either chose not to or the kids asked her not to. Anne's earlier choice had no influence on that.

She would not give them titles on marriage.. they aren't in Williams positon of 2nd Heir to the throne or princes..
Clearly Mark and Anne didn't want a title for Him or their children and I think they were right..
times have changed since P Margaret was married and her husband was offered a title which he took

 

[Iluvbertie]

Yes they could get a title, but it would probably not be a hereditary one. They would not get titles on marriage as William did because they are not Princes and not in line for the throne.

They are most certainly in line for the throne.

Peter is currently 13th, his children 14th and 15th, Zara 16th and Mia 17th.

In all likelihood they won't be monarchs but they are certainly in the line of succession.

 

[Countessmeout]

Interesting, Andrew was 4th in line behind Charles, and his 4 and 2 year old nephews when made Duke. Edward was 7th behind Charles, his 17 and 15 year old nephews, Andrew and his 11 and 8 year old nieces when made earl. Proximity to throne has nothting to do with it. Zara and Peter are not working royals so there was no need. York girls, unless they are made working royals, wont either.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

No they won't. Doesn't work like that. A title is given on marriage or via hereditary passing, neither of which they have.

It does work like that sometimes when people do something to merit it as in the case of Baroness Thatcher(although that was a life peerage). Her husband was made a baronet which is a hereditary title and their son has succeeded to that title. Former prime minister Harold Macmillan was made an earl by the present queen. And the actor Laurence Olivier was made a Baron although this was, as in Margaret Thatcher's case, a life peerage.