Princess Anne and Family General Information and Questions

[Elspeth]

OK and THANK YOU for taking the time to answer my questions, I do appreciate it.

I guess where I come from is that they were deprived of the MAJOR benefit of being a Royal and that is being Titled, for whatever reasons that might have been the case. I just don't think with that being the case, there should be any expectations of them, other than ordinary family ones.

There aren't, really. You don't see either of them doing the sort of royal duties that the Queen and her children and cousins do - visiting worthy causes, opening schools and hospitals, planting trees, heading up charities, going on official overseas visits. They do tend to turn up to family occasions like the Jubilees and the services of thanksgiving for jubilees and wedding anniversaries and so on, which count as ordinary family outings for that particular family even if they look very much like state affairs to us.

Yes, they could refuse to go to Granny's Jubilee bash or the Christmas service at Sandringham, but I assume they know that they'd be asking for the tabloids to pounce.

 

[diamondBrg]

Once again, THANK YOU ELSPETH for all the great information.

My understanding is much clearer now.

I am surprised that modern day British women tolerate the difference between the treatment of the genders in the Royal family.

I hope I don't say this wrong, but a WOMAN is good enough to be the QUEEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM in her OWN RIGHT, yet her daughter's children don't qualify to be a Prince and Princess? Strange to say the least.

 

[Skydragon]

I am surprised that modern day British women tolerate the difference between the treatment of the genders in the Royal family.

It happens within the majority of the titled families, as they are brought up to know that their brothers get the main benefits, it rarely causes a problem. I would imagine not having any title has brought them both many plus points. They are not expected to become involved in anything they don't want to. They may have missed out on some of the perks, but what price relative privacy and freedom?

 

[lyndaW]

Personally I think Princess Anne should have let them be "Titled" when they were born, and then when they reached age 21 it could and should have been their decision if they wished to keep the title. I just don't think it was fair of Anne to make that decision.....its obviously a moot point at this late date

 

[Rebafan81]

Could the Queen offer a title to Peter on his marriage, like a lot of the other royal houses, including Britian, have done in the past?

 

[Elspeth]

She could, but considering how the Earl of Wessex's children aren't being styled as HRH even though they're entitled to it, granting a title to Peter Philips would be going in the opposite direction from the one the royal family seems to be going in. I think it'd be highly unlikely that the Queen would offer him a title.

 

[HRH Kimetha]

So, as I understand the post above, neither Peter or Zara receive any 'income' from Princess Anne? I ask because Prince Charles seems to be responsible for Princes William & Harry monetarily even with them drawing money from their army stints. Does the Queen still give Anne any 'allowance'?

 

[branchg]

So, as I understand the post above, neither Peter or Zara receive any 'income' from Princess Anne? I ask because Prince Charles seems to be responsible for Princes William & Harry monetarily even with them drawing money from their army stints. Does the Queen still give Anne any 'allowance'?

Peter and Zara receive income from trust funds set-up by The Queen for her grandchildren (with the exception of William and Harry). William and Harry receive money from their mother's inheritance, their father and, in Harry's case, money he received from The Earl Spencer and The Queen Mother.

Anne also receives money from a trust fund as well as monies from The Queen for her public duties.

 

[ladyfizzle101]

title for peter

i wonder will the queen offer to give peter and autumn titles as wedding gifts...maybe the title of a count and countess or baron and baroness?

 

[magnik]

Question : if they want it?

I mean similar was with Anne and Mark,
As is customary, the Queen is believed to have offered Mark Phillips an earldom on his wedding day, which he turned down. This may also have been the specific wish of Princess Anne, who wanted to shield future children from the publicity that courtesy titles might bring.

Or maybe if not the title the Queen and the Prince/Duke give them some manor, mansion, house or good flat?

 

[PrinceOfCanada]

It's not like HM owns <i>that</i> much property personally that she can run about giving it away willy-nilly to her umpteen grandchildren.

 

[Amelia]

In his Hello interview this week Peter was asked if there was ever a time that he regretted his parents' decision not to give him a title his answer was -

No, never. I think Zara would say the same as I do, that we'll be forever indebted to our parents for what they did for us, because they have allowed us to have a normal life.

So I would find it very strange if he was to receive any sort of title on his wedding day.

 

[jcbcode99]

I would love to see Peter receive a title--Earl of something that he can pass down to his children. Charles' are HRH Prince William and Harry; Harry will receive a Dukedom most likely. Bea and Eugenie are both HRH Princesses, Edward's son will be titled and his daughter will be Lady Louise....while I respect Anne's belief that she wanted to shield her children from the public life, I would like to see Peter receive a title or something from Granny on his wedding day.

 

[jcbcode99]

In his Hello interview this week Peter was asked if there was ever a time that he regretted his parents' decision not to give him a title his answer was -

So I would find it very strange if he was to receive any sort of title on his wedding day.

Well, while I posted my above post this was posted (if that makes any sense at all!) and yeah, even though I would have liked to see him receive a title, I think this probably seals it.

 

[branchg]

Peter is far from rich, does not own a grand estate (although he will likely inherit Gatcombe Park after Anne's death) and works for a living.

Having a title is rather pointless, given his private life as a commoner. It's not like he will take on royal duties after his marriage, so I doubt he will accept one.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

I am sure you know his personal finances well, and what he will inherit. <sigh>

Well, we could all wonder if he might. You never know. After all, for two people so fond of privacy, a 500,000 splashy spread in Hello! was unusual too...... ;-)

 

[tiaratop]

indeed it was Lady M.

 

[PrinceOfCanada]

Personally I think Princess Anne should have let them be "Titled" when they were born, and then when they reached age 21 it could and should have been their decision if they wished to keep the title. I just don't think it was fair of Anne to make that decision.....its obviously a moot point at this late date

Thing is, it takes a bit of effort to renounce a title. It's actually much simpler--and, honestly, better for them as children--to not grant a title at birth, and grant one later if everyone wants to.

 

[branchg]

If Peter wants a title, I'm sure The Queen would love to grant him one. After all, he is her eldest grandson and Anne's only son.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens on his wedding day.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

Stranger things have happened.. Edward was made an Earl instead of a Royal Duke when he was married, a mild surprise to many, as usually the sons of a sovereign are made Dukes...but we never know.... Shall have to wait and see. The wedding seems to be grander than we all originally thought. I heard the Queen is providing an open carriage for the ride from St. George's to Frogmore House.....imagine the pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HRHEarlofGwynedd]

Edward was created an Earl for his wedding, but will become The Duke of Edinburgh after Prince Philip. After Philip dies The Prince of Wales becomes Duke of Edinburgh and the title will merge with the Crown when Charles becomes King. He will then grant the title to the Earl of Wessex.

 

[principessa]

Possible Titles for the Mark & Peter & Zara and Timothy

If Mark Phillips hadn't decide to resign a royal title at his marriage how would he and his children be titled? And how would be Timothy Laurence called after getting a royal title?

 

[Melania]

I also think that Edward's son(s) and grandsons will use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor (if he does indeed have any male grandchildren)... and not just William's and Harry's children and grandchildren.

Am I correct? Edward is male-line child of Prince Philip as well, so he should be able to use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor.

 

[branchg]

I also think that Edward's son(s) and grandsons will use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor (if he does indeed have any male grandchildren)... and not just William's and Harry's children and grandchildren.

Am I correct? Edward is male-line child of Prince Philip as well, so he should be able to use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor.

Technically, Edward's children are HRH Prince/Princess of the UK as male-line grandchildren of The Sovereign. His children are being styled Lord/Lady Windsor at their parents request, but they have the right to be HRH under the 1917 Letters Patent.

The surname "Mountbatten-Windsor" will apply to The Queen's descendants who are not HRH.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Technically, Edward's children are HRH Prince/Princess of the UK as male-line grandchildren of The Sovereign. His children are being styled Lord/Lady Windsor at their parents request, but they have the right to be HRH under the 1917 Letters Patent.

The surname "Mountbatten-Windsor" will apply to The Queen's descendants who are not HRH.

No, the queen granted them the right to not be called HRH and prince/princess.

More info from: Royal Styles and Titles of Great Britain


The children of the Earl of Wessex

On June 19, 1999, at the time of Prince Edward's wedding, it was announced that The Queen had decided, with the agreement of Prince Edward and Miss Rhys-Jones, that any children of their marriage should not be given the style of His or Her Royal Highness, but would have courtesy titles as sons or daughters of an Earl (see the press release from Buckingham Palace).


At the time, many people have expressed the notion that a press release was not sufficient to modify the Letters Patent of 1917, and that Louise could not be deprived of her "rights" without letters patent. The fact is that royal styles and titles are a matter of royal prerogative, that does not require the advice of the government (the Letters Patent of 1917 were issued without any such advice). The sovereign's will and pleasure is all that matters, and she can change styles and titles as she pleases (see the documents concerning the style of the Duke of Windsor's wife and issue, in particular the view of the Law Officers that "the right to use this style or title, in our view, is within the prerogative of His Majesty and he has the power to regulate it by Letters Patent generally or in particular circumstances", their view of the "undoubted powers of the Sovereign from time to time to determine the ambit within which the style and title of Royal Highness should be enjoyed", and the opinion of Sir Geoffrey Ellis that "precedence not regulated by law is substantially that granted at Court and this is a question for the Crown"). How that pleasure is publicized, by letters patent, warrant, press release or verbal declaration, is immaterial.



(End of quote)

 

[branchg]

No, the queen granted them the right to not be called HRH and prince/princess.

The Queen did no such thing. She simply announced her Wessex grandchildren would be styled as the children of an Earl, which they are, rather than HRH as male-line grandchildren of The Sovereign.

They still have the right to be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK automatically, unless specific letters patent are issued denying them that right, as was done in 1937 before The Duke of Windsor married. Otherwise, Wallis would automatically have become HRH The Princess Edward, Duchess of Windsor with marriage to HRH The Prince Edward.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

The Queen did no such thing. She simply announced her Wessex grandchildren would be styled as the children of an Earl, which they are, rather than HRH as male-line grandchildren of The Sovereign.

They still have the right to be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK automatically, unless specific letters patent are issued denying them that right, as was done in 1937 before The Duke of Windsor married. Otherwise, Wallis would automatically have become HRH The Princess Edward, Duchess of Windsor with marriage to HRH The Prince Edward.

Of course the queen did. Or isn't the "style " what people are actually "called", no matter what they are?

From the press release of BP:

"The Queen has also decided, with the agreement of The Prince Edward and Miss Rhys-Jones, that any children they might have should not be given the style His or Her Royal Highness, but would have courtesy titles as sons or daughters of an Earl. "

Which means BTW that a second son of prince Edward would simply be The Honorable Mr. X Mountbatten-Windsor.

 

[Arncliffe]

From how I see it, the press have elevated the couple on the occasion of their marriage. This morning's 6-very-cold-2nd-day-of-winter-am-news in Sydney had a lead story about the royal wedding.

So those with bitter and twisted comments about WAGS should know their place and should be pleased to know that a business brain is in line to enjoy the Gatecombe inheritance.

 

[inka7]

The Phillips Children and Titles - the wedding

I can understand that the two gave an exclusive interview to Hello! before the wedding and made money on that. In this way, they have a chance to finance the wedding party, honeymoon, future life together etc. on their own. I even think they should have asked for more. After all, Autumn and Peter are throwing a party for the Queen and should not borrow money or have the expenses covered by someone else.

If exclusive wedding picture rights were sold or not - I cannot say.

 

[branchg]

Of course the queen did. Or isn't the "style " what people are actually "called", no matter what they are?

From the press release of BP:

"The Queen has also decided, with the agreement of The Prince Edward and Miss Rhys-Jones, that any children they might have should not be given the style His or Her Royal Highness, but would have courtesy titles as sons or daughters of an Earl. "

Which means BTW that a second son of prince Edward would simply be The Honorable Mr. X Mountbatten-Windsor.

What I meant is The Queen was simply announcing they would use courtesy styles as the children of an Earl, rather than a son of The Sovereign.

It does not mean they do not have the right to assume their styles as HRH Prince/Princess of the UK if they choose to do so in the future. Only letters patent can take that away.