Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson, Current Events Part 2: Aug 2009 - June 2022

[michelleq]

She wouldn't be able to be with the Royal Family. She wouldn't be able to wear a Tiara.

I said it before, and I will say it again, she has become more Royal than the Princely Family she is attached to.

 

[Lumutqueen]

She wouldn't be able to be with the Royal Family. She wouldn't be able to wear a Tiara.

I said it before, and I will say it again, she has become more Royal than the Princely Family she is attached to.

This is your apparent reason why she didn't go home? Because she would miss wearing a tiara, and attending royal events?

I don't agree with you last point, I don't know how a commoner can become more royal, than her royal blooded partner.

 

[NotAPretender]

Thank you for answering my question, Guido (and I'm really sorry that I called you by the wrong name in my previous post), but how do you know that her sister is married to this man? Where did you get that information? I don't recall ever seeing anything about her sister in the news before, and I have never read anything about her sister's name.

Not a Pretender-I'm curious about the information in the will; specifically, this part that you posted:
"which one could place as an interpretation looking back through a modern lens at it. It adheres to the language of the day, including the means by which property was expected to be held and distributed after a final Nazi victory".

Did it use this term "Nazi victory"? If it did, wouldn't that be grounds for having the will thrown out in court since we all know that there was no Nazi victory? Did it make any stipulations for a Nazi defeat? I am not a legal scholar, but I would think that if this was based on a Nazi victory, they might have a chance to throw it out (if they want to, that is).

I've not seen the will itself; the process in the German courts is for non-publication of contested wills until such time as they are finally adjudicated. My knowledge is based in my current position with an international accounting firm and my particular area of expertise in property, as well as my conversations with our legal teams in a similar case. In the instances in which I have seen the documents, no such phrase as "Nazi victory" is discussed. In fact, the word "Nazi" is not used, only "Aryan." It has been explained to me that there was no need for any such phrase, as the government was highly confident of the outcome of the war (although they were sadly disabused of that, come 1945.)

The fact is and remains that there is no birthright at all besides the name of Berleburg. Gustav's inheritance has always been conditional and subject to this will, from before his own birth. His father, Prince Richard, has enjoyed the benefits of this wealth since his birth in 1934, or for a solid 76 years. Gustav has (thoroughly) enjoyed the benefits of this wealth for 41 sumputous years. Combined, that's a hefty 117 years of wealth and luxury beyond what most could genuinely come to understand. And the one and only stipulation regarded one marriage - and that's been known for over seventy years!

If this many people have benefitted financially for this long (Richard, Benedikt, Alexandra, Gustav, and Nathalie) by this will, this wealth, this stipulation - then I think it's disingenous to say that the will is something dreadful.

And as many a dispossed former Royal or aristocrat can tell you - or honestly speaking anyone who has lost their home in the last two years in the international housing credit crises - one can know what it's like to lose financially due to no choice or fault of their own: one can survive it, and one can even thrive. If Gustav's life is so....bereft...that the lack of incredible wealth is a tragedy beyond belief, I just don't know what. It's not as though he'd be on the dole. And after all, his girlfriend is a published writer, isn't she? Employable, the pair of them.

Once again, this is 100% Gustav's choice. And it's a choice he's known about since he was old enough to understand what being called "Prince" really meant.

As to his girlfriend and her choices, well, that's another post

This is your apparent reason why she didn't go home? Because she would miss wearing a tiara, and attending royal events?

I don't agree with you last point, I don't know how a commoner can become more royal, than her royal blooded partner.

I think that she has made her choice pretty clear. I was telling my husband about this last night, and this is what I outlined:

Situation 1:
A. My sister, a widow but now remarried, gives birth to her third child. I can go see her and the new baby and my nieces and my brother. It's a quiet family affair.

B. My boyfriend's cousin has a third child by his second wife. I can go to a baptism where we all get dressed up and wave at photographers.

What would be my choice? A. What was her choice? B.

Situation 2:
A. My sister has now been widowed for the second time. She and her three children have found the body of their father and husband, murdered by gunfire.

B. My boyfriend's aunt is throwing a big party and I already have my dress and jewelry.

What would be my choice? A. What was her choice? B.

---------

As to the "more Royal than royal," it's a figure of speech more than an actual statement of fact. It's analagous to a convert to a religion being more devout that someone having been born and raised into that religion.

His children's birthmark! !

They use laser surgery for that now. No worries.

 

[sgl]

Yes, that is the truth. Carina has one sister who has already lost two husbands.

You haven't answered my question. HOW do you know this? The news stories STILL haven't mentioned the wife's name. How do you know this is her in-laws? How do you know that her first husband died? Otherwise, this seems like gossip, IMO. Would you please tell us how you know this information?

 

[Lumutqueen]

Stepfather, adult son dead after apparent family dispute led to shooting off Highway 35 - Santa Cruz Sentinel

The picture of the sister, although not close up, doesn't look like Carina.
Plus the artcile says

with three young children,

I thought they only had one child?
None of the articles mention a Liselotte Jones.

Guido, How do you know this article is about Carina's sister. I'm starting to wonder like sgl.

 

[Guido]

Stepfather, adult son dead after apparent family dispute led to shooting off Highway 35 - Santa Cruz Sentinel

The picture of the sister, although not close up, doesn't look like Carina.
Plus the artcile says



I thought they only had one child?
None of the articles mention a Liselotte Jones.

Guido, How do you know this article is about Carina's sister. I'm starting to wonder like sgl.

The woman is Liselott, Carina's sister. Believe me, if she wasn't be her, I wouldn't post it.

 

[sgl]

The woman is Liselott, Carina's sister. Believe me, if she wasn't be her, I wouldn't post it. Richard and Liselott have 3 children what I wrote in previous post.

You're still not answering the question. WHERE did you get this information? How do you know this? Her family has never been covered in the news. What are your sources? HOW did you know that Carina's sister has been married twice? Citing sources makes this more credible.

 

[Guido]

You're still not answering the question. WHERE did you get this information? How do you know this? Her family has never been covered in the news. What are your sources? HOW did you know that Carina's sister has been married twice? Citing sources makes this more credible.

If you don't believe me, just search their names in a phone book.

 

[sgl]

Their names are different from Carina's, that's why I am asking you how you have this information. Why can't you divulge your sources? It sounds suspicious and not very credible, IMO.

I don't know what type of phonebook you are looking at, but I've never seen a phonebook that lists maiden names and marital history.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I don't think Carina is that heartless to not be with her family especially her sister and her neices/nephews after her second husband has past away. I just can't believe it, she doesn't seem like that.

 

[ayvee]

From this link: Royal News: August 2008

August 7th
This week's Billed-Bladet carries an interview with Hereditary Prince Gustav zu Sayn-Wittgenstein and his girlfriend Carina Axelsson at Graasten castle on the occasion of the 40th birthday of Carina on 5 August. She said that it had been fun that the magazines so far thought that she was 6 years younger than Gustav, while in fact she is five months older. Her full name is Carina Lynn Axelsson, she grew up in Santa Cruz, California, USA, and is the eldest of three children of a Swedish father and a Mexican mother. The couple has been together for 6 years, and lives together at Berleburg castle since three years. They met at a dinner with friends in Germany. Carina said she has been warmly welcomed by Gustav's family

From Los Gatos High School where Carina went to school, there are 4 Axelsson's listed: Site Search - Los Gatos High School Alumni Association

If we go by the BB translation, we can rule Erik out since he graduated before Carina making him older. Since Carina is the eldest, the other two women could be her sibling: Kerry Axelsson and Liselot K. Jones.

They put Axelsson in () after Liselot's name since she uses her married name. So Kerry Axelsson's maiden name was Christiansen.

It's unclear if Kerry is related to Carina but definitely Erik and Liselot have the same last name - Axelsson - as Carina. Maybe the BB translation is wrong and Carina is one of three children, Erik being the eldest. Maybe he ended up marrying Kerry Christiansen but definitely Liselot K. Jones used to be Liselot Axelsson.

On this LinkedIn page, Kerry Axelsson - LinkedIn
Kerry Axelsson is listed as having graduated from Los Gatos HS and is in the process of publishing a cookbook. Maybe Christiansen is her married name and the Los Gatos Alumni link made a mistake. She might be Carina's sister.

Billed-Bladet has now written about this incident:
Billed-Bladet - Chok i kongehuset: Carina Axelssons svoger myrdet

This was translated by aus73 from the Unofficial Crown Princess Mary MB:

Summary of the article in Billed Bladet issue 32, 2008

Af Anna Johannesen

Gustav holdt romantisk fodelsdag for Carina, da hun fyldte 40 - Gustav hosts a romantic birthday party for Carina, she turns 40.

Carina shall celebrate her round birthday next Tuesday. They have been together for 6 years. Carina said, she has had many delightful birthdays. It has been stated that I am six years younger than Gustav, thank you for that. Yet, I am four months older than Gustav.
The interview was held in the park behind Grasten Slot. Carina’s 40th birthday is very special and the presents have been bought. Carina has a Swedish father and Mexican mother. Carina and Gustav have been together for six years. Their love had become known officially two years ago at the wedding of Prince Phillip of Hesse at Panker in Germany. For three years now Carina has resided at Berleburg Slot. She and Prince Gustav have lived in the delightful part of the Castle that Princess Margareta used to live in til her death in August 2005. How did you meet? Gustav said, I had accepted an invitation to dinner by some friends in Germany. A couple of friends, one knew Carina and one knew me. It was a set-up. I had come to meet Carina and that second her mobile phone rang. All the mobile phones kept ringing throughout the dinner. After the dinner finished, Carina had turned on her phone again. I took her number and called her up from another part of the room and their love began. Carina Axelsson is also called Lynn. She was born and had grown up in California, her hometown is Santa Cruz south from San Francisco. She has two siblings, a sister and a brother and "I am the boss," says Carina. Carina mostly speaks English with Gustav. Carina speaks Spanish and French and a little Danish . When Carina was 20 she moved to Paris. "Paris and London are ok, but I love Copenhagen. It is beautiful with a lot of culture and delightful restaurants." said Carina. "Carina is a good cook," said Prince Gustav. They like Italian food. Prince Gustav said," that his father loves German food and his love is known as 'Shopping Girl.' " Carina’s parents and siblings live in the USA. Her family is far away and they have the telephone, and emails. Not far for me is my Swedish family. I had introduced Gustav to all my aunts and oncles and cousins from my Swedish father’s family. Carina is an illustrator and children’s book author. "I work on a book til I finally meet the publisher. Princess or Mrs. Axelsson for me it doesn’t matter", Carina said. "Our situation is special. All of my family understand and accept it. Carina has been warmly embraced by all the family. That is that, this is enough for us, "said Prince Gustav. Carina, said, "Gustav’s parents Princess Benedikte and Prince Richard have been fantastic to me. I have felt a great warmth from all in the royal family. The Queen and Prince Henrik have been extremely sweet and generous." Eventually, we shall be rightfully become man and wife . Do you want children?
Gustav said, "it is in God’s hands."

Carina has one brother and one sister. From this I will guess it is Erik who is older and Liselot who is younger, Carina being the middle child.

 

[sgl]

Jones is a very common last name in the United States. The news stories that Guido have posted about this crime have not stated the name of the victim's wife. What I want to know is, how does anyone know that this is Carina's sister's husband? Did someone look up marriage records? How is it known that she is a widow from her first marriage? This seems like a lot of personal information that I'm sure the family wouldn't want discussed on a forum.

 

[Maura724]

I think it's too much to expect Carina to have left the Danish party for the States on the 16th after hearing the news - you couldn't fly in or out of Europe then. Even if there were airports open in the south, it was nearly impossible to get trains or buses because all the people who had been booked for cancelled flights were flooding into the train stations. And even if she'd gotten to the south, there was no guarantee she could have gotten a flight because so many others might have gone south in hopes of doing the same thing.

You can make a case that she should have skipped Henrik's baptism and gone to her sister's baby's, but I don't think it's fair to say she should have gone home on this occasion. Europe was in the midst of the worst travel chaos in history.

 

[NotAPretender]

I realize that you are searching for sources, and they are there for you to find and they are credible. If you need further information, I would suggest using the Santa Clara County on-line database, California Public Records, and Santa Cruz County property records databases. There are some privacy issues with regard to posting direct links on these things (such as revealing addresses,) but you can research this the same way that someone else here researched Gustav's girlfriend's real age.

The links most definitely say the woman's name in the story, particularly those in the Sun Sentinel. And as to whether the young woman resembles Gustav's girlfriend, well, she's been photographed within hours of finding her husband slain; I can't imagine that's her best angle, or that she's been primped, pressed, curled, coiffed, made-up, glittered and polished. Had she been, we might see more of a resemblance. As it is, it's her sister who has had the benefit of the spit-and-shine, whereas we are seeing a photo in a paper of a woman who walked in with three small babies and found her husband dead. I think that even if they were the same person, the vast disparity in the circumstances of the photos would lead us to believe they were not!

 

[NotAPretender]

I think it's too much to expect Carina to have left the Danish party for the States on the 16th after hearing the news -

The incident was on the 15th, the day before the Danish party. Carina elected to not only remain in Denmark (when other travel options were available) but to attend public events. That's tasteless.

We're also dealing with a very wealthy family here; a train to points south would have been easy to arrange, and private jet transport readily available to those in that income bracket. Althought I don't know Queen Margrethe personally, she appears to me to be the type of person who not only would say "Please, go be with your family," but would probably ask her staff to find private transport such as a Gulfstream to ferry the woman to her sister. Again, I'd like to point out the extreme wealth we are talking about here; this isn't your basic traveler, having to stand in line at Heathrow and glumly stare at the flight schedules.

Partying away while your sister is laying out her husband and comforting her babies is chilling. Just chilling.


----------------

ETA: Well done on the research, ayvee. I'm most impressed. And Billed-Bladet has gotten most of it right, although as usual it's a bit frothy.

So based on the research that has been shown here and can be verified through public records, she has an older brother Erik and a younger sister. The younger sister, Liselot, is Mrs. Jones. Liselot Axelsson Jones has three children; one by her first husband (deceased,) and two by her second husband (murdered.) Her second husband adopted her child from her first husband. Those facts can be found in the California public records, almost all of which are on-line, generally as part of published family court notices.

Mrs. Jones' husband was found murdered by his wife and three children. While the case is still under investigation, it appears to be a murder-suicide.

The murder happened before 7:30 am on Thursday, April 15, 2010, as that is the date and time that Mrs. Jones found her husband's body and called the police. That would be 4:30 pm in Copenhagen, the day before the festivities for the Queen began.

 

[michelleq]

[As to the "more Royal than royal," it's a figure of speech more than an actual statement of fact. It's analagous to a convert to a religion being more devout that someone having been born and raised into that religion.[/QUOTE]


Thank you for explaining on my behalf; another phrase/figure of speech that could be used is "more native than the natives".

 

[NotAPretender]

You betcha, michelleq! I feel quite old sometimes, like my slang is from another century. Oh, it is. The twentieth!

 

[MarleneKoenig]

The marriage requirements are in Gustav's grandfather's will. The Prussians and the Leiningens have already tried to overturn similar requirements in the wills of Kaiser Wilhelm II and the late Prince Emich zu leiningen. (The wills are treated as every will as the wills were made out after the end of monarchy.) Thus, there are already 2 precedents against Gustav's chances of winning .. and I think he's aware that the will cannot be overturned. He cannot marry Carina and remain the heir. But if he does not marry her, he can remain the heir, and prepare the next heir, which would be the line of Prince Bernhart.
Carina may not be close to her sister.. Princess Anne did not attend William's baptism.

Unless one knows the specifics regarding the relationship between Carina and her sister (and her family) as a whole, aren't we pretty much speculating?

We don't know if she knew or not about the tragic circumstances of her brother in laws death...we don't why she didn't attending her neice's christening..we are just guessing and assuming the worst about hte personality of someone we don't know...or am I missing something?

Furthermore, it does appear that Gustav and Carina can marry but give up the title and fortune...but the question is why should they? Isn't it his birthright? I am not trying to malign anyone's heirtage or go off on a tangent...but I find the he must marry an Aryan to be a little off center and dare I say it...meanspiritied. Would this not be a problem if it wasn't Carina who he wanted to marry? Even if he loses this battle or Carina...I would think that this needs to be removed for future generations. Someone has to fight the battle...why not Gustav?

Liselot's first husband was John Moitozo. He committed suicide in 2006.

You haven't answered my question. HOW do you know this? The news stories STILL haven't mentioned the wife's name. How do you know this is her in-laws? How do you know that her first husband died? Otherwise, this seems like gossip, IMO. Would you please tell us how you know this information?

 

[michelleq]

Welcome Marlene! I enjoy your blog as well!

2 questions if you can answer I'd appreciate it:

I believe that the law in Germany now allows one to marry in church but not necessarily a Civil Marriage. If Gustav does this, will he still be able to keep his inheritance and pass it on to his children?

Also, if he breaks with Carina, marry per his Grandfather's will, then divorces, can he then marry whomever he chooses?

 

[ashelen]

what ever happen she is 40 very difficult to have kids at this age, i know not impossible with the help of science but may be she does not want kids, who knows but still I would rather he would take her instead of the will, this is what my grandfather did, he scape with my grandmother dispite the family opisition becasue of the social level, otherwise today i would not be here! ( just i must admite i would not mind to have their fortune today, but he choose love and I adimire him for that )

 

[Maura724]

The incident was on the 15th, the day before the Danish party. Carina elected to not only remain in Denmark (when other travel options were available) but to attend public events. That's tasteless.

We're also dealing with a very wealthy family here; a train to points south would have been easy to arrange, and private jet transport readily available to those in that income bracket. Althought I don't know Queen Margrethe personally, she appears to me to be the type of person who not only would say "Please, go be with your family," but would probably ask her staff to find private transport such as a Gulfstream to ferry the woman to her sister. Again, I'd like to point out the extreme wealth we are talking about here; this isn't your basic traveler, having to stand in line at Heathrow and glumly stare at the flight schedules.

Partying away while your sister is laying out her husband and comforting her babies is chilling. Just chilling.

The murder happened before 7:30 am on Thursday, April 15, 2010, as that is the date and time that Mrs. Jones found her husband's body and called the police. That would be 4:30 pm in Copenhagen, the day before the festivities for the Queen began.

The volcano exploded on the 15th, which is why the Swedes, Norwegians, etc. couldn't make it to the theatre performance on the 15th. No one was flying out of Europe that day, even if they had a private jet (which I'm not sure the Danish royals actually have). It simply wasn't safe. And I don't know that a train to the south was easy to arrange, even with money - this was the worst travel chaos Europe has ever seen, including 9/11 when all flights were grounded due to the World Trade Center attacks. Plus, a train from Denmark to, say, Rome would take almost 24 hours, and it would have been really hard to find a flight once she got there. Even if the Danes had a private jet, odds are it wasn't in Rome but in Denmark, and just because she could have paid more for a ticket doesn't mean she would have gotten one. Money can't always fix this kind of stuff. And there's very little Carina could have done had she gotten to America.

I really don't think it's fair to blame her for not rushing to the States. However, she could very easily have simply not attended the party. I think it would have been more appropriate for her to just stay in her and Gustav's rooms while he went alone, so I agree with you that going on and partying was tasteless.

By the way ashelen, I really like your story.

 

[ashelen]

Thank you Maura724! for one way I admire my grandfather(farfar)his decicion of marrying my grandmother(farmor) because in those days he could not marry a commoner like Fred did and he choose love and I really I can not imagine how did he handled his life with no money for love I know it was very hard from living in a castle to lives in the srteets and bring up 3 kids but still it has some magic in the air, sometimes I think I would have love to inherit his wealth and his style of life but probably if he had chosen money I would not be here or I would not be the person I am today may be one day everyting turn around and we - i mean me , my husband, my daughter and hopfully my descendats- can go back to denmark and get back the honour that he lost for love.
Certenly all this thing between Gustav and Carina I do not see a real love, I hope I am wrong!

 

[NotAPretender]

... this was the worst travel chaos Europe has ever seen, including 9/11 when all flights were grounded due to the World Trade Center attacks.

In the aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks, all planes were grounded except private jets. The Bin Laden family in the United States were whisked away from NY in a small fleet of private aircraft, generally taking off from Teterboro or MacArthur, in the hours and days after the attacks.

Plus, a train from Denmark to, say, Rome would take almost 24 hours, and it would have been really hard to find a flight once she got there. Even if the Danes had a private jet, odds are it wasn't in Rome but in Denmark, and just because she could have paid more for a ticket doesn't mean she would have gotten one. .

When I speak of private jets, I am speaking of private aircraft owned by individuals and corporations, not subject to the purchase of a ticket. They are commonly "lent" out to friends and family or leased for short-runs. Any of the major corporations based in Denmark would have had one available (most more than one!) and they have the advantage of not having to go aloft into the airstream that contained the ash. For instance, BoConcepts could have lent their G-4 to - someone - with a flight plan to fly below the ash-stream with a transfer to available public air travel - perhaps St. Petersburg. Where there is a will (no pun intended!) there is a way, particularly in this income bracket. The fact that other Royals did not make it could have had as much to do with public appearance (being grounded with their "people" for instance) as being actually grounded.

And there's very little Carina could have done had she gotten to America..

I disagree respectfully, Maura. The point of being with someone who is bereaved isn't necessarily to do anything, it's just to be there to share the grief. For a sister to not even make the effort, or even to give off the appearance of an effort, appears to me to be saying that "I have better things to do, and better people to do them with."

However, she could very easily have simply not attended the party. I think it would have been more appropriate for her to just stay in her and Gustav's rooms while he went alone, so I agree with you that going on and partying was tasteless.

Most definitely. Even if (as the BB story seems to imply) she received the news just before leaping aboard the bus to the party, she and Gustav could have easily just disembarked with everyone else, moved quietly inside the facility and requested an immediate and uneventful departure. To continue to attend further events (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) is even more vulgar.

Another newspaper has reported the story:

Ekstra Bladet - Mord satte dæmper på dronningens fest

 

[kalnel]

In the aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks, all planes were grounded except private jets. The Bin Laden family in the United States were whisked away from NY in a small fleet of private aircraft, generally taking off from Teterboro or MacArthur, in the hours and days after the attacks.

Wrong. If you consult the 9/11 report, you'll see that the bin Laden family -- those who chose to leave the U.S. -- left via a chartered Ryan Air flight that made stops in Boston, Washington, Orlando, and Los Angeles. This flight took place 8 days after 9/11, after U.S. airspace was fully re-opened. Here's a source for my info: Plane Carried 13 Bin Ladens (washingtonpost.com)

Also, note that AIRSPACE was closed. Private jets did NOT fly.

When I speak of private jets, I am speaking of private aircraft owned by individuals and corporations, not subject to the purchase of a ticket. They are commonly "lent" out to friends and family or leased for short-runs. Any of the major corporations based in Denmark would have had one available (most more than one!) and they have the advantage of not having to go aloft into the airstream that contained the ash. For instance, BoConcepts could have lent their G-4 to - someone - with a flight plan to fly below the ash-stream with a transfer to available public air travel - perhaps St. Petersburg. Where there is a will (no pun intended!) there is a way, particularly in this income bracket. The fact that other Royals did not make it could have had as much to do with public appearance (being grounded with their "people" for instance) as being actually grounded.

Wrong again. As after 9/11, the AIRSPACE was closed, so no traffic moved. Even military jet flights (at any altitude) were grounded. Here's the source for that: The Associated Press: Ash cloud has jet fighters grounded in Europe

I disagree respectfully, Maura. The point of being with someone who is bereaved isn't necessarily to do anything, it's just to be there to share the grief. For a sister to not even make the effort, or even to give off the appearance of an effort, appears to me to be saying that "I have better things to do, and better people to do them with."

Most definitely. Even if (as the BB story seems to imply) she received the news just before leaping aboard the bus to the party, she and Gustav could have easily just disembarked with everyone else, moved quietly inside the facility and requested an immediate and uneventful departure. To continue to attend further events (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) is even more vulgar.

It is completely unfair to presume to know how ANYONE should behave in such a situation. We don't know the sisters' relationship, we don't know the options for transportation, we don't when and how Carina heard the news, and so on. We also don't know what happened subsequent to the gala.

It's worth pointing out that the brother-in-law who was just killed married Carina's sister only a year or two ago. For all we know, Carina may have met him only once or twice. That's not a connection that would create high drama in my life.

I don't understand why people have such an axe to grind against Carina. She's not "the other woman" who forced anyone else out. She and Gustav seem to keep to themselves, except when they attend family events, so it's not as if she's out in the public annoying anyone. And, by all indications, she appears to have not only Gustav's love, but the support of his parents and the Danish royal family.

I think it's only fair to give her the benefit of the doubt that she lives her life in a way that suits her and those she loves. Because, frankly, to do otherwise is nothing more than gossip and casting our own prejudices against her.

 

[NotAPretender]

It's worth pointing out that the brother-in-law who was just killed married Carina's sister only a year or two ago. For all we know, Carina may have met him only once or twice. That's not a connection that would create high drama in my life.

I'm actually rather flabbergasted that your measure of the worth of a marriage (and widowhood) is in its time span alone, and that by inference, the decedent is hardly worth the time of Gustav's girlfriend, and hardly worth mourning in general. Do please provide the date of the marriage as well as the dates of birth for their two children (the third and oldest being her child from her first deceased husband) to back this up.

As to everything else in your post, it has two strong flavors: attack, and filtered data. You may private message me for first-hand information about flights that did take place both after the attacks on the World Trade Center (please note: World Trade Center = NY) and jet travel after the volcanic eruption - provided that you significantly moderate your tone. Or better yet, perform the primary research by using source data such as the agencies governing airspace wherein flight plans and manifests are filed (as opposed to quoting media which is re-quoting reports; at that point, it's third to fourth hand.) At this point, however, that discussion is wildly off-topic, and I was right there in the wagon with you on the "Journey Away From Topic," so fill my plate with a helping of "mea culpa" as well.

I note no gossip going on in these past postings. We have presented facts and expressed our opinions based on those facts. It is my belief that everyone has been respectful of each other (well, up until a few mintues ago) and been very specific as to which were facts and which were opinions. Surely, you don't place yourself in a position of where you believe you have governance over our opinions - do you?

Finally, since the basis of your post is that we are all prejudiced folk with an axe to grind, please provide the data that supports that.

 

[michelleq]

I agree with Not a Pretender; Carina at the least, if not both she and Gustav, should had bowed out and stayed at Schoss Berleburg (or at a Danish Castle if they were already in Denmark) with taste. If she never met her recently deceased brother in law, it was distasteful and self serving for her to smile on cue at every camera.

Don't get me wrong, if I fell in love with a Prince, I would do what would be required to become his wife, but I would not wait around for years and be a "pretend princess" for the glamour shots. It cheapens the title of "Princess" IMHO. The sad probablilty is that he will never give up the money and title, and if he holds on til death, the Headship of the House and Schloss and money still goes to his cousin Bernhart or his son.

 

[kalnel]

I'm actually rather flabbergasted that your measure of the worth of a marriage (and widowhood) is in its time span alone, and that by inference, the decedent is hardly worth the time of Gustav's girlfriend, and hardly worth mourning in general.

Well, you can get over being flabbergasted, because that's not what I said. I said Carina may not have even met the man for than a few times, given the short time her was married to her sister. SHE is not the widow.

Do please provide the date of the marriage as well as the dates of birth for their two children (the third and oldest being her child from her first deceased husband) to back this up.

I don't know the date of the marriage, but I do know that since the previous husband killed himself in February 2006, they weren't married more than a few years. (If you care to know the DOB of their children, look them up yourself -- I haven't referred to them.) My source for the first husband's death is: Billed-Bladet - Chok i kongehuset: Carina Axelssons svoger myrdet

As to everything else in your post, it has two strong flavors: attack, and filtered data. You may private message me for first-hand information about flights that did take place both after the attacks on the World Trade Center (please note: World Trade Center = NY) and jet travel after the volcanic eruption - provided that you significantly moderate your tone. Or better yet, perform the primary research by using source data such as the agencies governing airspace wherein flight plans and manifests are filed (as opposed to quoting media which is re-quoting reports; at that point, it's third to fourth hand.)

I am attacking your assertions, which are groundless and for which you offer no sources whatsoever. I'm sorry if you take that personally, but if you're going to make baseless claims, be prepared to defend them. As to "filtered" data, I have provided you with resources from the Associated Press and the Washington Post. If you would like to back up your assertions with ANY reliable source, please do so.

At this point, however, that discussion is wildly off-topic, and I was right there in the wagon with you on the "Journey Away From Topic," so fill my plate with a helping of "mea culpa" as well.

I don't think it's off-topic at all. You're presenting things as "facts" that attempt to support your opinions of Carina and Gustav, and they don't stand up to scrutiny. That creates a false impression of these people, which is a disservice to them -- and it's against the policy of this forum, as I understand it.

I note no gossip going on in these past postings. We have presented facts and expressed our opinions based on those facts.

You have NOT presented facts in this instance, you've asserted things that aren't correct and called them facts.

It is my belief that everyone has been respectful of each other (well, up until a few mintues ago) and been very specific as to which were facts and which were opinions. Surely, you don't place yourself in a position of where you believe you have governance over our opinions - do you?

I've offered factual, resource-supported responses to your assertions, which were wrong. I did not attack you personally. I don't find it very respectful (of the board members or the people being discussed) when people assert things based on unsupported assertions.

Finally, since the basis of your post is that we are all prejudiced folk with an axe to grind, please provide the data that supports that.

Once again, you're miscasting what I said. I asked why some people in this thread seem to have a need to grind on Carina. In my opinion -- although I think a review of quite a few comments in the last 20 or 30 posts in this thread would support it -- people are really slamming Carina for reasons that aren't entirely clear. As far prejudice, I said that not giving Carina the benefit of the doubt -- and I don't think that many people have done that -- amounts to casting our own prejudices onto her.

 

[kalnel]

Timing of death and gala

One other thing that might be worth considering in this whole debate about why Carina attended the gala is the timing of how information came out.

According to the local news reports, Carina's sister called the police at 7:30 AM to report the shooting; her husband was declared dead at the scene later. (Source: New Details: Sheriffs Investigate Murder, Suicide - KION - Monterey, Salinas, Santa Cruz - News Weather)

Denmark is 9 hours ahead of California, which means that the sister didn't call the police until 4:30 PM Copenhagen time.

At that time, the poor woman would have been busy dealing with her children, a dead husband, a dead father-in-law, the tragedy, the police, emergency responders, and reporters. In fact, as the local news story reports, the investigation at the house was continuing throughout the day.

But, for the sake of argument, let's assume she called Carina by 8 AM California time, which would have been 5 PM Copenhagen time. (Seems improbable, but who knows?)

As the pictures from the gala show, the guests were arriving in daylight, so the event must have started in the early evening at the latest. By the time Carina might have received a call, she and Gustav probably would have been dressed and ready for the event, if not on their way to it. (At least I'm assuming that they're not quick-change artists who can get fully dressed up for a white-tie event in less than an hour.)

At that point, what can they do?

-- airspace is closed, so they can't fly out. (The fact that world leaders couldn't fly to the Polish funeral two days later would seem to show that NO ONE was flying.)

-- train might be a possibility, but they would have had to take a a very long trip to southern Europe, where they might or might not have been able to get out. (And, I have no idea if there even is a train leaving from Copenhagen at night to go to southern Europe.)

-- driving might have been an option, but that would have meant many, many hours on the road to get anywhere flights were leaving.

-- even hanging on the phone to support her sister would have been unlikely, since the sister almost certainly had her hands full with everything else going on.

It seems to me that going to the gala would have been a perfectly reasonable decision. Get their minds off the tragedy, don't draw attention away from the queen, don't create a lot of speculation about why they weren't there, and sit through a concert and consider their options.

Far from being coldhearted about the death, that would have been polite to the queen and about all they could do.

 

[ashelen]

I understand that day may be go but not the following days! and really refring gustav I think he will never married her, one day he will meet soembody younger married and have kids ad damp karina! i think she is not clever enough to stay with him, but just is my opinion

 

[grevinnan]

Carina and Gustav are adults and perfectly able to make decisions on their own. To chastise them for how they decided to proceed with the evening after they assumedly received the tragic news implies that they are somehow not quite capable of making appropriate decisions. To stop what they were are doing would in no way have helped her sister not would I expect her sister to questions why Carina did not change her plans for the evening.