Prince Albert's Older Children Part 1: 2009 - 2023

[Moonmaiden23]

Is it possible that Nicole Coste's latest press offensive was a result of her having heard rumors from her contacts in Monaco that "that girl" is expecting a legitimate heir?

 

[Ana Von Cleves]

What exactly do you mean by full inheritance? I was under the impression that some sort of financial arrangements had been made between Albert and his children. Of course, we will never know the specifics.

In my little worldview, the succession in Monaco would be (if no male primogeniture & legitimacy doesn't count) would be Jazmin, Alexandre and then the baby. Not going to happen, I know. Just thinking of fair play.

In regards to Alexandre and Jazmin super ceding their future half brother/sister...isn't one of the requirements of a Monaco heir being that the child is born within a legal marriage. Or if the parents marry after the child is born, thereby legitimizing the child. Since Tamara was already married by separated...that nullifies Jazmin. And Albert had plenty of time to marry Nicole before he met and/or married Charlene. But apparently had no interest in doing so. So I would imagine that Nicole wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court.

Otherwise, I totally agree with your post. If you are having a one night stand both parties should use protective measures IMO. Forget pregnancy, let's talk about diseases. No, we really don't need to discuss diseases. Add in Albert's position (public persona, fairly wealthy, heir to a throne) and you have to question Albert's thought process. .

EXACTLY! I thought I was long winded enough without going into the awful risks he was obviously taking with his life.

If you are in a relationship with someone (and it does appear that some type of relationship was going on with Nicole and Albert), its possible that they discussed a potential pregnancy and/or safeguarding against a potential pregnancy. I don't know, again in Albert's position you would think he would have exercised better judgement and not just depended on Nicole to take appropriate measures.

Maybe its just me...I know I can't control everything but things I can control I don't give that power to anyone.

 

[Skippyboo]

In my little worldview, the succession in Monaco would be (if no male primogeniture & legitimacy doesn't count) would be Jazmin, Alexandre and then the baby. Not going to happen, I know. Just thinking of fair play.

If there were no male primogeniture, Albert wouldn't be ruler since Caroline is older.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Tamara Rotolo was legally the wife of another man when she got pregnant, which means that Jazmin is the result of adultery. According to Monagasque law, nothing, not even a papal dispensation, can put a child conceived in adultery in the line of Succession. As for Nicole I know that she was married and has other children. I am not sure if she was technically married to her husband during her affair with Albert but the same goes for Alexandre if she was.

However, even if they can't have the Throne they are entitled by law to a sizable chunk of Albert's fortune.

It's very sad that these kids have been deprived of a normal paternal relationship due to the behavior of stupid, selfish adults. But, as COUNTESS pointed out, they are still miles ahead of millions of other children born out-of-wedlock. They are not unloved. They are financially set for lives of ease, privilege, comfort and luxury most of us can only dream of.

And Albert does not fit the definition of a "deadbeat dad".

 

[Ana Von Cleves]

I respectfully disagree with the last bit. To me, its an apples to oranges comparison in regards to the discussion of male primogeniture vs laws of legitimacy. Having a child is not like buying a car/house or even marriage. IMO Having a child is lifetime commitment more than an actual marriage. Right now you have people having kids with people they barely know (a good example is Albert and Tamara) and they don't even really know each other. Add is additional children and it can be a nightmare!

What if Jazmin is the heir because she is the oldest child (regardless of legitimacy or not) and she is groomed to be the ruler of Monaco. But guess what, Albert had a child in college, and now that child is the heir and hasn't been groomed to rule and doesn't know what is expected of him/her. Do you turn around and say...sorry about that Jaz...he/she was born first?! That's is disruptive and pretty crummy IMO.

Nope its better to be born with the confines of marriage, and therefore everyone knows what is expected of them.

Well, I think that some of those that have been prepared all their lives have made terrible hashups of it, so those who are unprepared can hardly do worse. And, anyway, if one knew a given child was the heir regardless, one wouldn't wait until college graduation to begin their training or refuse to acknowledge them for 14 or 15 years.

I don't think anyone should be made to take on the role if they really don't want it. In my readings about Edward VIII I have always had the distinct impression that he didn't want the throne and insisting on Wallis was rather like a wild animal chewing off a foot to escape a trap. I also feel that William is at least somewhat reluctant, but grimly determined to do his duty.

It really is a gilded cage and they should be allowed honorable escape if they want it. But that's a whole different topic.

And, yes, of course it is always better to be born within a marriage. But more and more this is not the case and the laws regarding legitimacy punish the children not the parents.

 

[Ana Von Cleves]

Tamara Rotolo was legally the wife of another man when she got pregnant, which means that Jazmin is the result of adultery. According to Monagasque law, nothing, not even a papal dispensation, can put a child conceived in adultery in the line of Succession. As for Nicole I know that she was married and has other children. I am not sure if she was technically married to her husband during her affair with Albert but the same goes for Alexandre if she was.

".

A man wrote that law and a person can equally well write another law or amend that one.

And, yes, of course I know these young people are far far from disadvantaged ghetto kids. They are far luckier than most.

Ana

 

[Ana Von Cleves]

Response toSKIPPYBOO True!

It's been great fun chatting with everyone, but my parrot is sitting on his cage solemnly announcing that it is bed time and if the lights don't go out soon, he will start squawking.

Good Night!

Ana

 

[Ish]

In my little worldview, the succession in Monaco would be (if no male primogeniture & legitimacy doesn't count) would be Jazmin, Alexandre and then the baby. Not going to happen, I know. Just thinking of fair play.



EXACTLY! I thought I was long winded enough without going into the awful risks he was obviously taking with his life.

You bring up an interesting idea, but I think ultimately it would be unfeasible to introduce.

Consider the situation in Monaco. In 2005, it was confirmed that Albert had fathered Alexandre, then about 2 years old. The next year it was confirmed that he had fathered Jazmin, then 14. If Alex had been the heir then he would have been displaced in the course of a year. And you would never know if Jazmin could some day be replaced by another, older illegitimate child.

By insisting that the heir be legitimate (either, as in most countries, by birth, or, as in Monaco, at least later on) then there is a stability to the succession. We know who the eldest legitimate child of, for example, Prince Charles is, so the government system doesn't have to worry about his heir being displaced by the emergence of some new previously unknown child.

If you wanted to go with the argument that children born out of wedlock but later on legitimized should be able to inherit, I would probably agree, but just outright illegitimate children is a tricky thing.

I also personally wouldn't look at a throne or title as being something really passed on from one person to the next - at least not in most European nations - as it is an government institution that has a hereditary head. As such, it's not something that all children of a monarch should be able to inherit equally, regardless of how they're born. Monaco is not simply one of Albert's possessions to pass on to his children and Jazmin is being denied the opportunity because of her birth - the monarchy within Monaco is a family-run business and government institute that has strict (albeit lax by other standards) rules for who the next CEO gets to be. It's like... Donald Trump wouldn't leave his business to an illegitimate child he'd had minimal contact with just because he/she was the eldest - he's going to leave it to the legitimate children who have been groomed to take over the business. Why should a monarchy be any different?

Also, in response to your earlier statement about the current heir situation. Belgium's heir is Elisabeth, Denmark's is Frederick then Christian, Liechtenstein is Alois then Joseph Wenzel, Luxembourg is Guillaume, the Netherlands is Catharina-Amalia, Norway is Haakon then Ingrid-Alexandra, Spain is Felipe then Leonor, Sweden is Victoria then Estelle, and the UK/Commonwealth is Charles, then William, then George.

Of the male heirs, Haakon and Felipe both have elder sisters, while of the female heirs, Ingrid-Alexandra and Victoria both have younger brothers. The rest are all the eldest legitimate child.

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

Yes, indeed. What a very foolish statement. Yes, she is his daughter, biologically, but not spiritually. It was a 1 night stand. The woman got pregnant and had the child. He supports her, financially, (better than a lot) and perhaps, personally, I do not know that. To leave his real wife behind, what , I must say, I am trying to be polite, ridiculous reason. These children on here , but realistcally, not because their father wanted them. Yes, he is responsible, but their mother's more so. They knew the rules. They knew with whom they were dealing. It doesn't make it right. It is reality.

It was not a one night stand she was in Monaco two or three weeks.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Two or three weeks is not a one-night stand...but it is a FLING.

 

[Roslyn]

No matter whether it's a committed relationship, a fling, or a one night stand, if a man is going to dip his wick and doesn't want to have a child with the woman he takes precautions to prevent it happening. And even if both of them take all reasonable precautions there is still a risk of conception and both parties should know that. In the absence of any knowledge of the arrangements they took or didn't take to prevent pregnancy, I think both parties must be considered equally responsible for the conception and therefore equally responsible for the care and welfare of the child.

 

[Ish]

No matter whether it's a committed relationship, a fling, or a one night stand, if a man is going to dip his wick and doesn't want to have a child with the woman he takes precautions to prevent it happening. And even if both of them take all reasonable precautions there is still a risk of conception and both parties should know that. In the absence of any knowledge of the arrangements they took or didn't take to prevent pregnancy, I think both parties must be considered equally responsible for the conception and therefore equally responsible for the care and welfare of the child.

I was going to say similar.

There are a lot of accusations being thrown around here, namely that Albert was essentially an irresponsible idiot who got not one but two women pregnant out of wedlock, then had to be forced by the courts to acknowledge either of them and pay for them, and now neglects his children.

I'm not going to try to say that none of this is true, because it very well could be, but I'm inclined to think that it's not nearly that simple.

First of all, as Roslyn so nicely pointed out, while Albert is responsible for his part in the conception of his children and should be held accountable for it, the mothers were also responsible. Albert didn't force himself on either of the mothers of his children, and none of us were privy to whatever conversation (if any) Albert had with them about birth control. Some very big assumptions are being made here, and all the responsibility (and blame) seems to be put at Albert's feet.

Understandably, this could very well be because Albert didn't jump to acknowledge either of his children at first, even going so far as to take 12 years to acknowledge Jazmin. Except, given the nature of his relationship with the mothers of both of his children, and Albert's status, position, and wealth, he would have been an idiot to have simply taken either women at their word when they claimed he'd fathered their children. Albert had had a fling/affair/one night stand/whatever with them. It wasn't like he'd been in a long term relationship with either then claimed that he couldn't have fathered their child. For all he knew, either mother could have gotten pregnant shortly before/after their affair then decided to try to foist the child on him because of who he was. He made a mistake, in my opinion, in not handling the issue of Jazmin's paternity more swiftly, or either issue either more privately or more openly - he screwed up by having it outed by others and not really responding to it, enabling us to draw our own conclusions.

In both cases, Albert has stressed that his relationship with them is a part of his private life. Like many other royals, Albert protects his private life and relationships with private individuals very closely - consider how his sisters and their children act. Not only that, but both of his children are private individuals who are not included in the line of succession to the Monegasque throne. We don't know what kind of that relationship is, nor do we know what conversations are occurring between Albert and his children about things. He's being criticized for not going to Jazmin's graduation, but for all we know she asked him not to go (or she asked him to go and he didn't and is hugely disappointing her, it could be either, it could be neither, we don't know). He's being criticized for not having a relationship with his son, but the person who is telling us that is Alexandre's mother and she's not exactly the most unbiased of people. For all we know she could be making it difficult for Albert to have a relationship with Alex and enjoys publicly badmouthing him (it's not the first time she's done so). Or he could be avoiding a relationship with Alexandre because he doesn't want to have one with the boy. Or he could actually have a relationship that we simply don't see because it's a private one, and she's well aware of that but wants to publicly badmouth Albert because she knows he won't defend himself and she wants something. Or it could be something else. We don't actually know this, we're just jumping to conclusions.

 

[HighnessN]

I do not know what kind of a father Albert is to his children, so I won't pass judgement on that.

I do however have a problem with the way the situation with the children was handled PR-wise. In fact, I have a problem with the PR team in Monaco, they are not good with handling scandals, they should take advice from the British Royals.

I think the situation should have been handled in a similar way as the Charles and Camilla situation. They should have made it clear that Albert is not ashamed hot his children and they are none negotiable. Yes the children's privacy is important but Albert attending a graduation as a proud papa would have gone a long way PR-wise. As I said, he might have been very proud in private but he needed to be proud in public as well.

This is important especially now with the baby coming. People would not debating whether he is a good father or not if the PR team and his advisors had done their job. Instead people would be like " he is such a good father to his other children, he will be a good father to this baby as well."
It does not help the Prince to be seen as a good father to his legitimate child but as a bad one to his illegitimate children.

 

[American Observer7]

If Albert wishes to have have a public relationship (or private relationship for that matter) with his daughter, and they both agree to do so, it should because they want to.

Neither is under no obligation IMO to show the world that they have a relationship. Being seen and photographed with your children (particularly if you area public persona) doesn't mean you are a good parent.

I agree. I just hope he's not trying to hide her on purpose.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

If Albert wishes to have have a public relationship (or private relationship for that matter) with his daughter, and they both agree to do so, it should because they want to.

Neither is under no obligation IMO to show the world that they have a relationship. Being seen and photographed with your children (particularly if you area public persona) doesn't mean you are a good parent.

Leave it to Zonk to always make the most sense. I 100% agree!

 

[FanofMonaco]

I think you all are missing the point about inheriting the throne. It's not about what the potential heirs want. It is about what the Monegasques want. I think if all of the legitimate Grimaldis were wiped out they would chose to become a democratic nation before picking Jasmine or Alexander. That is currently what their Constitution says. They have thought about this alot more than we have.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I am certainly not missing the point FoM...I agree with you 100%!

I've said before that I cannot see Jazmin or her little half-brother Alexandre being acceptable to the Monagasques, for many reasons.

 

[American Observer7]

I stand by what I have said previously. I'm not going to debate or argue about this. Many of you here want these children punished for being born and it's cruel not to mention ridiculous! This is about not the throne. Who cares about that? That is so unimportant!

Those are his children and Albert should be proud and not try to hide them. Children are a blessing!

And yes, it may be Jazmin who wants the privacy. We don't know and we won't. But I hope he is not afraid to have her on his arm in public at events. That is all I'm pointing out. She's lovely and an awesome student from what I read and a lot like him as far as being a humanitarian. Those children are blessed and so is Prince Albert.

 

[Victoria's Secret]

Nobody wants to see Jazmine and Alexandre "punished" for being born -- they are innocent in all this. But it's not our business to prescribe to PA how he should conduct his relationships with them. That's a private matter between them. He is certainly not ashamed of them either and has ensured they are well taken care of. He has a life to lead with big responsibilities, a wife and soon a family of his own. Whatever opportunity he has to spend with these two kids, I'm sure he does.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I in no way want them punished for being born. And I honestly haven't read that sentiment expressed any where on this thread.

What I have seen posters express is that we don't know the particulars of Albert's relationship with his natural children. And if such a relationship does not exist, it cannot be forced into existence. It's sad that due to choices that their father and their mothers made they were deprived of a traditional upbringing with two parents present. It is what it is, and that is simply the way the ball bounces.

But they are loved and comfortable and secure which places them miles ahead of other kids in similar circumstances.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The two children by Prince Albert are very, very privileged. Millions of children in the world can only dream of being in their circumstances. In the UK and the USA the divorce rate is staggering, as is the number of one-parent families or those underaged moms we see on MTV. Compared with these babies, Albert's two kids have nothing to complain, really nothing.

 

[Ana Von Cleves]

The two children by Prince Albert are very, very privileged. Millions of children in the world can only dream of being in their circumstances. In the UK and the USA the divorce rate is staggering, as is the number of one-parent families or those underaged moms we see on MTV. Compared with these babies, Albert's two kids have nothing to complain, really nothing.

I don't believe anyone thinks they are in anyway under privileged. However, there is no denying that they will not receive equal treatment with the new baby.

I just read the DM article of a few days ago and I see that the boy's mother claims that she has been fighting for his rights, though she doesn't say where she has taken his case or what specifically she has done in her "tireless efforts." And apparently she can't understand why taking the kid to a different country should make it more difficult for his father to see him as often as before.

I agree with many of the posters to that article that she hasn't done herself any favors with her attack on Charlene and Albert.

Ana

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is just the DM, take it with two grains of salt. It is just momma feeling sidelined and missing the égards, the privileges and the prominence she enjoyed as companion to the Prince.

Note that this complaining lady, with an unsuccesful career as designer and an ailing company, lives in Knightsbridge, one of London's most posh neighbourhoods, where the costs of life are astronomic. She is not exactly the forgotten old flame living in a 17th floor council appartment in one of those dreadful banlieues, forgotten by all and everyone.

Alexandre is born with a golden spoon in his mouth. He will be able to go to the best schools in the UK, France or Switzerland. He remains the son of the Prince de Monaco, all his life he will be able to use dad's connections and network to his benefit. Really, all this is more a cry for attention from momma, missing the red carpet, denying Charlène her place and maybe even thinking that her boy should be the future Prince.

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

I stand by what I have said previously. I'm not going to debate or argue about this. Many of you here want these children punished for being born and it's cruel not to mention ridiculous! This is about not the throne. Who cares about that? That is so unimportant!

Those are his children and Albert should be proud and not try to hide them. Children are a blessing!

And yes, it may be Jazmin who wants the privacy. We don't know and we won't. But I hope he is not afraid to have her on his arm in public at events. That is all I'm pointing out. She's lovely and an awesome student from what I read and a lot like him as far as being a humanitarian. Those children are blessed and so is Prince Albert.

It doesn't look like he has been hiding her to me. Princess Grace Awards
photo 2 photo 3 with Christ Levine (Kelly)

Someone posted something to the effect that the courts made Albert acknowledge the children. They were never involved but Tamara did file a Paternity Suit against Albert however it was thrown out.

 

[MARG]

All this kerfuffle because he didn't attend his daughter's graduation. How wierd is that, thousands of divorced parents find themselves in the same unenviable situations.

I think the announcement of Charlene's upcoming "Happy Event" and specualation as to her health could possibly have kept Albert close to home. Just a thought.

 

[American Observer7]

Wait. Has Jazmin graduated from college already this month?

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

All this kerfuffle because he didn't attend his daughter's graduation. How wierd is that, thousands of divorced parents find themselves in the same unenviable situations.

I think the announcement of Charlene's upcoming "Happy Event" and specualation as to her health could possibly have kept Albert close to home. Just a thought.

I agree with you Marg and would hope Albert wouldn't be a 9 hour flight away from Charlene right now especially since her brother said she was having a hard time getting pregnant. My childs father didn't attend our daughters graduation either. While it might have been nice for Albert to be at Jazmins it would have been a distraction from the ceremony itself not to mention a Secret Service nightmare.

For those American's who aren't aware of it as soon as Alberts plane touches down until he leaves Secret Service are assigned not only to him but Charlene when she comes with him. With that said remember your taxes are hard at work paying for those photo shoots some of you want. When Albert comes here everyone who lives in the Condominiums has to go through a complete security screening to get into their own homes.

 

[American Observer7]

I agree with you Marg and would hope Albert wouldn't be a 9 hour flight away from Charlene right now especially since her brother said she was having a hard time getting pregnant. My childs father didn't attend our daughters graduation either. While it might have been nice for Albert to be at Jazmins it would have been a distraction from the ceremony itself not to mention a Secret Service nightmare.

For those American's who aren't aware of it as soon as Alberts plane touches down until he leaves Secret Service are assigned not only to him but Charlene when she comes with him. With that said remember your taxes are hard at work paying for those photo shoots some of you want. When Albert comes here everyone who lives in the Condominiums has to go through a complete security screening to get into their own homes.

What you say makes since. I think many are being hard on him but he also missed her high school graduation and it looks very bad.

 

[miche]

I agree with you Marg and would hope Albert wouldn't be a 9 hour flight away from Charlene right now especially since her brother said she was having a hard time getting pregnant. My childs father didn't attend our daughters graduation either. While it might have been nice for Albert to be at Jazmins it would have been a distraction from the ceremony itself not to mention a Secret Service nightmare.

For those American's who aren't aware of it as soon as Alberts plane touches down until he leaves Secret Service are assigned not only to him but Charlene when she comes with him. With that said remember your taxes are hard at work paying for those photo shoots some of you want. When Albert comes here everyone who lives in the Condominiums has to go through a complete security screening to get into their own homes.

He said that?

 

[amaryllus]

Charlene's family seems to have foot-in-mouth disease...