Philip - I Don't Want A State Funeral

[JessRulz]

Posts discussing what will occur in the wake of the Queen's death have been moved to the http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/the-future-of-the-british-monarchy-44877.html thread.

 

[rob2008]

It is unacceptable that Thatcher divided and caused so much hardship and division was given a grandiose military funeral and yet Philip, a prince of the blood who has been leading the British monarchy so well, is due to receive something less grand.

 

[Osipi]

I think the difference is that any "lesser" funeral and burial would be at the request of Philip, himself. If he doesn't want a lot of muss and fuss and ceremony, why shouldn't his wishes be honored?

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Except there are those who think that a funeral is for the living left behind, not the deceased.

 

[Osipi]

I think, when the time comes, there will be a happy medium where Philip's wishes are honored yet those left behind who wish to mourn him will have plenty of opportunities to do so.

I would put this request of Philip's to be handled much like Prince Henrik of Denmark's was when he passed on.

 

[Roslyn]

I think a person's funeral is a very personal matter and at which that person's wishes should be respected and given precedence over all others. The best way for people to honour Philip is for them to give him the sendoff he wanted.

 

[rominet09]

I completely agree with you Roslyn.

 

[irish_royalist]

I think the difference is that any "lesser" funeral and burial would be at the request of Philip, himself. If he doesn't want a lot of muss and fuss and ceremony, why shouldn't his wishes be honored?

Agreed - perhaps he assumed that he would die before his wife, and something less than a state funeral would make the event a little easier for The Queen, so that she would be less in the public eye?

 

[wyevale]

I think that we will abide by whatever decision is announced.
MANY people will wish 'to pay their respects' at a lying in state, for a man universally respected as the 'help and stay' of our Monarch, for so many years. But ultimately that isn't a decision for any but the Family [and the Crown].

 

[Mbruno]

I think that we will abide by whatever decision is announced.
MANY people will wish 'to pay their respects' at a lying in state, for a man universally respected as the 'help and stay' of our Monarch, for so many years. But ultimately that isn't a decision for any but the Family [and the Crown].

I don't think a King or a reigning Queen can choose not to have a state funeral, even if they did not want one. It remains to be seen if that kind of choice (i.e. a private funeral versus a royal ceremonial funeral) would be possible for a Prince Consort. Prince Henrik's wishes were respected in Denmark, but Britain is quite different.

 

[Rudolph]

The last state funeral in Britain was for Winston Churchill. The Queen told the Duke of Norfolk, who is in charge of state funerals, Churchill's funeral should be "on a scale befitting his position in history"

I think Philip will have a ceremonial funeral with all the bells and whistles.

 

[Pranter]

I think if he really doesn't want one the family won't force the issue. But frankly he doesn't seem the type to care about that sort of thing either way. Funerals are for the living.


LaRae

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

I agree that Philip's funeral should be done according to his wishes since, as Roslyn pointed out, funerals are very personal.

 

[Iluvbertie]

If, as reported, Philip has told the Queen that she doesn't want a state funeral I would expect the Queen, and Charles, to respect his wishes.

 

[Osipi]

I actually can understand where Philip is coming from with his wishes to not have a full, blown out state funeral with all the pomp and ceremony attached to it. Personally, I'd be having some serious heebeejeebees at the thought of "lying in state" somewhere with people passing by even if those people are respectfully remembering me and paying their respects. To be honest, I don't want *any* kind of a funeral and to ensure that, I'm making a full body donation to medical science. But that's just me.

I do think Philip's wishes will be respected but also that there is going to be memorial services and programs of remembrance as the world celebrates the life of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. We'll have to wait until the time comes to know but hopefully that won't be for quite a while yet.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The last state funeral in Britain was for Winston Churchill. The Queen told the Duke of Norfolk, who is in charge of state funerals, Churchill's funeral should be "on a scale befitting his position in history"

I think Philip will have a ceremonial funeral with all the bells and whistles.

The Lady Thatcher got a State Funeral as well, didn't she?
And all servicemen and - women fallen for Queen and Country effectively got State Funerals too, if their families accepted the offer.

 

[Curryong]

Margaret Thatcher got a Ceremonial Funeral not a State one. Hers was similar to Diana's. And I've never heard of ordinary British or Commonwealth servicemen and women of below Generals' or Admiral of the Fleet rank being awarded State Funerals. (Lord Nelson and the Duke of Wellington had State Funerals.) They can receive Military Funerals as per their wishes, but generally it's a pretty simple service.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Maybe there is a linguistic misunderstanding in here. Under a State Funeral I understood that it is organized by, and paid for, by the State. We are thinking about guards of honour and royal guests, but a State Funeral can be very small scale indeed. A military funeral is effectively a State Funeral, as the fallen military have been cared for, transported to the country and all costs are paid for by the State indeed. For an example: the funeral of Lieutenant-colonel Arnaud Beltramé, the gendarme who voluntarily swapped himself for a hostaged woman and was subsequently killed, was a State Funeral as well, as everything was organized for by l'État. I can not imagine that not one Brit has received a State Funeral since Churchill.... It must be a linguistic misunderstanding.

 

[Sunnystar]

Maybe there is a linguistic misunderstanding in here. Under a State Funeral I understood that it is organized by, and paid for, by the State. We are thinking about guards of honour and royal guests, but a State Funeral can be very small scale indeed. A military funeral is effectively a State Funeral, as the fallen military have been cared for, transported to the country and all costs are paid for by the State indeed. For an example: the funeral of Lieutenant-colonel Arnaud Beltramé, the gendarme who voluntarily swapped himself for a hostaged woman and was subsequently killed, was a State Funeral as well, as everything was organized for by l'État. I can not imagine that not one Brit has received a State Funeral since Churchill.... It must be a linguistic misunderstanding.

Speaking for the US - State Funeral would include lying in state, which means the casket lies in the Capitol Rotunda for a certain number of days - usually 3 - and an honor guard from all branches of the military, and sometimes prominent family members or civil servants, stand watch, and, in some instances, a national holiday the day of the funeral service.

Any member of the armed services can have a graveside funeral service at any National Cemetery and while the Dept of Veterans Affairs would certainly pay for those costs, none of those are classified as State Funerals - both of my dad's parents are buried at the National Cemetery here in Oregon and their memorial services were definitely NOT state funerals, lol.

I would guess that a State Funeral in the UK is similar to what we have in the US - it's something that is usually only for former heads of state or very prominent politicians and military leaders (ie Churchill and Wellington). The last one we had in the US was for George H.W. Bush and it shut down parts of Washington DC when the casket was transferred from the Capitol to the National Cathedral, and it was broadcast on all of the major news networks.

 

[Lee-Z]

Maybe there is a linguistic misunderstanding in here. Under a State Funeral I understood that it is organized by, and paid for, by the State. We are thinking about guards of honour and royal guests, but a State Funeral can be very small scale indeed. A military funeral is effectively a State Funeral, as the fallen military have been cared for, transported to the country and all costs are paid for by the State indeed. For an example: the funeral of Lieutenant-colonel Arnaud Beltramé, the gendarme who voluntarily swapped himself for a hostaged woman and was subsequently killed, was a State Funeral as well, as everything was organized for by l'État. I can not imagine that not one Brit has received a State Funeral since Churchill.... It must be a linguistic misunderstanding.

A "State funeral" is a well defined definition, even in the Netherlands not all funerals paid for by the state are State Funerals
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_funeral

As this is a thread about P.Philip, see also
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_funerals_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[Lilyflo]

Prince Philip's decisions about his funeral are the current recorded arrangements that will be enacted in full when he dies. He might have reviewed his decisions occasionally but whatever they are, that's what will happen.

 

[Denville]

Maybe there is a linguistic misunderstanding in here. Under a State Funeral I understood that it is organized by, and paid for, by the State. We are thinking about guards of honour and royal guests, but a State Funeral can be very small scale indeed. A military funeral is effectively a State Funeral, as the fallen military have been cared for, transported to the country and all costs are paid for by the State indeed. For an example: the funeral of Lieutenant-colonel Arnaud Beltramé, the gendarme who voluntarily swapped himself for a hostaged woman and was subsequently killed, was a State Funeral as well, as everything was organized for by l'État. I can not imagine that not one Brit has received a State Funeral since Churchill.... It must be a linguistic misunderstanding.

That is not the meaning of a state funeral in the UK

 

[Mey]

I suspect he'll have a Ceremonial funeral like the Queen Mother but that is largely indistinguishable from a state funeral to most people. I expect it will focus heavily on his naval ties.

 

[tommy100]

https://www.itv.com/news/central/up...nce-between-a-state-and-a-ceremonial-funeral/


This talks about former PM Margaret Thatcher's funeral -

Baroness Thatcher is being given a ceremonial funeral with military honours today, not a state funeral.

The differences between both are very simple says Historian Dr Sarah Richardson at the University of Warwick.

"A ceremonial funeral is more for those who are in the 'second tier down' and it only has to be agreed by the Queen.

"A state funeral has to be debated and agreed in Parliament"

Dr Sarah Richardson said the other main difference between the two is how the gun carriage is pulled.

In a state funeral the gun carriage is pulled by sailors whereas in a ceremonial funeral, which is what Lady Thatcher will be given today, the carriage is pulled by horses.

"It is quite a recent phenomenon for ceremonial funerals to be given, a trend of the 20th Century. Princess Diana and the Queen Mother both received ceremonial funerals. It was created for when there was a need for public celebration". - Dr Sarah Richardson

Basically only the Queen and possibly Charles were her to die before the Queen would get a State Funeral. In many many ways the two are indistinguishable to those watching, the Queen Mother's funeral was as close to a state funeral as it could be. In regards to payments the State pays either way, a State funeral would be paid directly a ceremonial funeral is still paid for by the State just via existing budgets not its own.

 

[Durham]

Maybe he will get a funeral like the last male consort Prince Albert. It seems to have been relatively grand with the military involved & a procession from the upper ward to St George's, although off course entirely within the castle precincts. I don't know if the public were allowed in or not.

 

[Countessmeout]

Maybe he will get a funeral like the last male consort Prince Albert. It seems to have been relatively grand with the military involved & a procession from the upper ward to St George's, although off course entirely within the castle precincts. I don't know if the public were allowed in or not.

If Philip dies first, he will also be the first consort of a reigning monarch to die during their spouse's reign since Albert. The others have all been dowagers.

Queen Mum-50 years after her husband died
Mary- 17 years after her husband died (shortly before granddaughter's coronation)
Alexandra- 15 years after her husband died

Before Victoria, the last reigning monarch to be widowed would technically be George IV. Caroline died 9 years before George did. But they had been separated for 25 years when she died. And accordingly she didnt get a state or formal funeral in England of any kind. She was buried at home in Brunswick instead. Though the procession to take her home caused a huge riot.


It will be interesting to see just how formal the funeral gets when Philip dies. Being the longest serving consort in British history, I doubt that it will not be a huge event no matter his wishes.

 

[Mey]

Maybe he will get a funeral like the last male consort Prince Albert. It seems to have been relatively grand with the military involved & a procession from the upper ward to St George's, although off course entirely within the castle precincts. I don't know if the public were allowed in or not.

No, the public would not have been allowed in. The only reason we are allowed in today is because of discreet film cameras.

 

[Osipi]

It will be interesting to see just how formal the funeral gets when Philip dies. Being the longest serving consort in British history, I doubt that it will not be a huge event no matter his wishes.

I agree with you. Philip has been such an integral part of the monarchy for so many years and the Queen's "strength and stay" that I do believe that the entire nation (if not the world) will stop and pay respects to the Duke of Edinburgh when he passes. The funeral may not be as elaborate as perhaps the Queen Mother's or Diana's or Thatcher's was but it will be done in a way that would please Philip yet allow the nation to mourn along with their Queen (presuming Philip passes first).

One thing that I would suggest happens at any funeral service held for Philip is that the hymn "O Strength and Stay" will be used. It just seems kind of fitting. ?

 

[Blog Real]

I think he will have a funeral like the Queen Mother's. It will be interesting to attend this event, as it will probably be the first consort of a monarch to die during his spouse's reign since Albert.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

It is unimaginable to me that Margaret Thatcher would get a more elaborate sendoff than HRH Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.