Palace Huis Ten Bosch, The Hague

[Jacknch]

I think it may all depend of exactly what type of works Beatrix had done on the palaces during the time of her reign. Probably cosmetic works, general renovations and installations, repairs and general maintenance to update and keep in good condition. However, deep renovations to the fabric of the building may be required including upgraded electrics and insulations etc.
Certainly over here in Britain, building regulations have been updated and amended over recent years - my house was built 10 years ago within the relations required at the time. But now things are starting to need replacing with better quality and within new guidelines such as the heating and boiler, windows etc. Anyone know a good plumber?!

 

[Marengo]

Aparently the money will be spent on the removal of asbestos, new plumbing, new curtains, etc. Technical installations nee dto be renewed, and there are silverfish in the walls, and woodwurms in the wood. Also the security systems are not up-to-date.

According to the RVD the costs are 4000-5000 euros per square meter, which is comparable to simular renovations in monumental buildings.

http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binn...eeters/het-anti-kraak-afbraakpand-van-beatrix

 

[muriel]

Its good to hear that the Dutch government has a robust view of maintenance of public buildings, including the royal palaces. I do wish our Parliament might be more willing to make similar on-going investments.

 

[Jacknch]

Its good to hear that the Dutch government has a robust view of maintenance of public buildings, including the royal palaces. I do wish our Parliament might be more willing to make similar on-going investments.

I am afraid we're still in the post-war mindset of make do and mend (or rather make do) and we are obviously too poor a nation to be getting ourselves into anything so silly and complicated as on-going investments! Where would it end?
It would require spending a bit of money now to save higher costs later wouldn't it? No, dear - that's too obvious a thing for a governmental department to get itself involved in. For starters, a form would need to be filled in and that would involve the civil servants and we wouldn't want to go down that tricky road!
Best leave it all alone and have a nice cup of tea!

 

[muriel]

I am afraid we're still in the post-war mindset of make do and mend (or rather make do) and we are obviously too poor a nation to be getting ourselves into anything so silly and complicated as on-going investments! Where would it end?
It would require spending a bit of money now to save higher costs later wouldn't it? No, dear - that's too obvious a thing for a governmental department to get itself involved in. For starters, a form would need to be filled in and that would involve the civil servants and we wouldn't want to go down that tricky road!
Best leave it all alone and have a nice cup of tea!

Unfortunately what you say appears to be quite close to the truth!

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I am surprised by the staggering amounts for renovation anyway. Almost 4,5 million Euro just for updating Noordeinde 66 into a pied à terre while in the 1990's it was completely renovated from inside out (I saw pictures of mini-bulldozers inside, only the completely stripped walls were still standing). I am surprised that after such a relatively short period again such a renovation is needed.

And not because Princess Beatrix is going to live there, no, just as a pied-à-terre when she is accidentally in The Hague (it goes beyond my logic why she can not have an appartment at Huis ten Bosch Palace, at Noordeinde Palace or at the royal estate De Horsten which is owned by her, but okay... that is my way of thinking.



When Queen Máxima would like to replace wallhangings in gold silk, to say something, because by sunlight it has faded, then there is a considerable prize tag indeed. And then we are talking about just one salon and there are a lot of salons of course...

Anyway, all expenses are comptrolled by the Auditory Chamber so I assume all is perfectly within the budget and the rules.

 

[muriel]

I am surprised by the staggering amounts for renovation anyway. Almost 4,5 million Euro just for updating Noordeinde 66 into a pied à terre while in the 1990's it was completely renovated from inside out (I saw pictures of mini-bulldozers inside, only the completely stripped walls were still standing). I am surprised that after such a relatively short period again such a renovation is needed.

And not because Princess Beatrix is going to live there, no, just as a pied-à-terre when she is accidentally in The Hague (it goes beyond my logic why she can not have an appartment at Huis ten Bosch Palace, at Noordeinde Palace or at the royal estate De Horsten which is owned by her, but okay... that is my way of thinking.



When Queen Máxima would like to replace wallhangings in gold silk, to say something, because by sunlight it has faded, then there is a considerable prize tag indeed. And then we are talking about just one salon and there are a lot of salons of course...

Anyway, all expenses are comptrolled by the Auditory Chamber so I assume all is perfectly within the budget and the rules.

Its not really for me to comment, but is the Dutch monarchy not one of the most expensive on a year-to-year basis?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Its not really for me to comment, but is the Dutch monarchy not one of the most expensive on a year-to-year basis?

Yes it is in the top, when looking to the costs but these lists are very difficult to compare. It is hard to believe that the Dutch monarchy is on the same level as the British one while there are so many more and so much grander residences, so much more pomp and circumstance, etc. at the British isles. The same counts for Spain. Both Huis ten Bosch Palace as well Noordeinde Palace easily fit in the enormous Palacio Real in Madrid. The costs are very difficult to compare. I refuse to believe that a monarchy with Buckingham Palace, St James' Palace, Kensington Palace, Clarence House, Windsor Castle, the Palace of Holyroodhouse, etc. has the same prize tag as the Dutch monarchy. Impossible. I think the Dutch score so high because they are open and transparent about all direct and indirect costs and have it insightfully assigned to the costs connected with the monarchy. I think Denmark is a good comparison for the Dutch, the prize tag for both monarchies lies between 40 and 50 million Euro (leaving aside the costs of security, palaces, etc.)

I must say that it remains pretty calm about the high costs. Past two days were the debates about the King's Speech and the Budget 2015 but the costs of the Royal House were not mentioned at all. There have been years with more criticism so it appears all parties in Parliament more or less accept that this is the prize tag for the Dutch monarchy and that this is "a reasonable prize".

 

[tommy100]

its always impossible to compare one monarchy with another and I think in their day to day duties the British Royals seem perhaps more 'grand' so one might expect their costs to be more. However the British Royals would simply never get the sort of money that is been mentioned for the Dutch Royals to update their Palaces/buildings. Their is simply no way that when Charles becomes King for the British Royal Family that he will get 46million (the cost of the renovations at the three Dutch palaces mentioned) to redo Buckingham Palace, Windsor etc. The Dutch in that way are lucky.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

For all the nagging of the ladies and gentlemen politicians about the costs of the upkeep of the royal residences ("In the 1980's Queen Beatrix got spic-and-span restored palaces and now they need money-swallowing renovations again?"):

Today in the news it became known that the whole Inner Court Complex (which houses the First Chamber, the Second Chamber, the Council of State and the Department of the Prime Minister) needs to be closed for 5 years. The whole complex need an extensive (and expensive) restoration.

The buildings of the First Chamber (the Senate) have been restored in 1997. The buildings of the Second Chamber (the House of Representatives) have been restored after the enlargement in 1992. The buildings of the Council of State have been restored in 1996. The Trêves Chamber where the Council of Ministers assembles as not so long ago been updated.

All these buildings will now be restored at once, meaning that all named institutions will be re-located for five years. The costs are not known yet but will be astronomic, without doubt. This will shed the costs for the upkeep of the royal residences in a more balanced light for politicians and media.

 

[Lee-Z]

Apparently the renovation of Huis ten Bosch will cost 60 million euro instead of the originally budgetted 35 million.
Political parties request a debate with prime-minister Rutte to find out why the inctease in budget is that large and whether this could not have been foreseen in the first place.
'Verbouwing Huis ten Bosch valt tientallen miljoenen duurder uit' | NU - Het laatste nieuws het eerst op NU.nl

google translated

 

[amaryllus]

How do you pronounce this BTW?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Apparently the renovation of Huis ten Bosch will cost 60 million euro instead of the originally budgetted 35 million.
Political parties request a debate with prime-minister Rutte to find out why the inctease in budget is that large nd whether this could not have been foreseen.
'Verbouwing Huis ten Bosch valt tientallen miljoenen duurder uit' | NU - Het laatste nieuws het eerst op NU.nl

E60 Million is a lot of money for the restoration of the Huis ten Bosch,is there any reason given as to why the costs have gone up?

 

[Lee-Z]

E60 Million is a lot of money for the restoration of the Huis ten Bosch,is there any reason given as to why the costs have gone up?

Not specifically, as i understand it the matter is yet to be discussed with "the powers that be"; the fact there is no specification of the costs is one of the things that political parties have a problem with (and think the prime minister should explain).
It is a big building which has had very little maintenance in the years that P.Beatrix lived there; there's asbestos to be removed, the electronic wiring needs updating and security needs to be improved...but this was already mentioned for the previous budget of 35m, so i dont' know if there was more that needed work..

 

[Mbruno]

How do you pronounce this BTW?

Google Translator has a pronunciation key which you can use after typing the words.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The amount is beyond belief, for sure when we take into account that the central part of the palace, the magnificent Oranjesael was already restored for many millions and is not included....


We have to wait if the rumours are true or not.

 

[Marengo]

Let's hope it is not. if so, it means that the government building service must have been sleeping, 45% extra costs is idiotic. Though the total sum for an old building isn't all that surprising. Let's hope that the budget for the parlement buildings -which will be mch higher- is accurate.

 

[Marengo]

The government has disclosed some more information about the works at Palace Huis ten Bosch:

- total costs will be 59 million Euros
- before the works start, the Orange-Hall will be open to the public for free
- doing the works in phases, as suggested earlier, would have costed 14 million Euros extra
- there is more asbestos than expected, the outside staircase and the chimneys are in a bad condition.
- the works will take 40 months and will be finished by the end of 2018.
- the prime minister admits that this has to be better arranged in the future
- the opposition party D66 argues that the costs make the king vulnerable for criticism.

Huis ten Bosch voor 59 miljoen opgeknapt|Binnenland| Telegraaf.nl

 

[An Ard Ri]

E59 million and 2018 finish date,lets hope they don't uncover any more asbestos!

 

[eya]

What to tell me being a poor and bankrupt country for the greatness and richness of another country . I'm speechless

Bravo to the Dutch State. They take care for the Palaces and their King. Besides they are new Kings and they must live in the new Palace.

The french people play ball alone. They have a little house for the president to stay , another little house for the rendez-vous of the president and another little Fort at the riviera for the vacation. Im speechless again.

So the dutch people must be a very happy because the renovation of the Huis ten Bosch Palace the cost only 59 million euros?ohmy
What are you doing exactly ? Attempts to justify the unjustifiable?

That all you say is logical. And is logical of course all this palaces and historic buildings to need renovation. But is just (for me at least) very scandalous this prize tags.
But anyway the every state know better what can i say.

Indeed.We are a above wealthy state that takes care of it's heritage,we are proud of that,yes.And it's not scandulous at all if one wishes to keep up the place and pass it on to future generations...unlike Tatoi,sad enough,...People might nag as they do,but they will forget about it soon enough.The Head of State needs an apropiate representative dwelling,and that is what the State has to provide.After all,the State pinched it all from the RF in the 1790's...

Yes you have right saying how all this places must to keep up and to pass the next generations.
Also how people always forget . Yes that is happen the people always forget and this is sad sometimes.
About Tatoi very sad indeed. But with the history we have my country just can't do it nothing different .
Generally agree with you i don't say something else just can i continue to think is scandalous that prizes?

 

[lucien]

How do you pronounce this BTW?

Syllable after syllable...and then you have the Dutch equivalent for Valued Added Tax....

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The government has disclosed some more information about the works at Palace Huis ten Bosch:

[...]

- the opposition party D66 argues that the costs make the king vulnerable for criticism.

[...]

I understood it were not the costs (the King can do nothing about that, as it is the State istelf which decides about the housing of the head of state) but the decision of the Government to do nothing about the (lack of) Income Tax of the King. The King receives an annual allowance which is netto. The Government rejected the idea in making it bruto and taxate it. Some parties however say that this would then become in line with all Dutchmen: "All Dutchmen pay Income Tax, also the King".

The Prime Minister argued that the income of the King is vested in the Constitution and that it should require a lengthy and difficult revision of the Constitution and "we have other priorities". The Prime Minister also stated that then -for an example- the living in palaces like Huis ten Bosch, the use of royal cars should become taxable because it is "payment in natura" but at the other side the King is King 24 hours a day, and what is work, what is private, when it comes to the use of palaces or transportation? It seems the Government has asked fiscalists on the matter and it was not so simple as it looks like. The most simple situation is indeed just giving a netto allowance, the use of royal residences and the use of transportation as agreed in various Acts and Decrees.

But... taking in account that Huis ten Bosch palace has been restored in the late 1970's and early 1980's, that the Oranjesael has been extensively restored a few years ago (for staggering amounts as well) and that then rest of the relatively small palace requires so much money is beyond belief. But again: it is not the King but the State which decides in this matter.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Bravo to the Dutch State. They take care for the Palaces and their King. Besides they are new Kings and they must live in the new Palace.

The Constitution requires that the King is given an income and also given royal residence(s). In furtherer legislation is worked out who belongs to the Royal House (Royal House Act 2002), which members of the Royal House receive an annual income (Act on the Financial Statute of the Royal House 2008) and three palaces were specifically given a royal destination (Royal Decree concerning the appointment of palaces to be given at the disposal of the King, 1980).

But... would the Goverment have said: "We think Huis ten Bosch Palace is more than splendid enough. It is a worthy and dignified house for His Majesty", then the King will have accepted it. To me, just an onlooker, Huis ten Bosch looks in good state to me. Far better than the Royal Palace in Brussels (Belgium) or Buckingham Palace. I have the idea that the State Housing Agency applies the highest possible standards for this (A-listed) monument. That is nice but I have the idea all Dutch are bewildered by the astonishing costs of it all.

 

[Ilse]

I wonder why the don't pay any rent.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Bravo to the Dutch State. They take care for the Palaces and their King. Besides they are new Kings and they must live in the new Palace.

Compared with the Royal Palace in Brussels, which I visited last year, or Buckingham Palace, which I visited a couple of years ago, the Dutch palaces seem in splendid condition. The Royal Palace in Amsterdam, Noordeinde Palace in The Hague, Huis ten Bosch Palace in The Hague, Het Loo Palace in Apeldoorn (mainly a museal destination but sometimes used by the royal family), Princess Beatrix' pied-à-terre at Noordeinde 66, the Royal Mews in The Hague and in Apeldoorn, Het Oude Loo castle in Apeldoorn, really it all looks in splendid state. Only Soestdijk Palace really is visibly worn out and needs a good restoration.

I think that all Dutch are simply bewildered by the astonishing costs. I think that all Dutch will agree that the head of state should have a worthy and dignified residence at his/her disposal but that a building like Huis ten Bosch, which seems quite in good condition, comes with that prize tag....

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I wonder why the don't pay any rent.

In the Constitution is stated that the State gives a residence to the King. Most likely this was a "compensation" for the confiscation of the Orange-Nassau properties by the same State before the French occupation.

When the Constitution says that the State gives a residence at your disposal, then it is not logic to say: "You have to pay rent". And it is also the same pocket A - pocket B discussion. "We give you an income and housing. And oh yes, from that income , via an U-turn, we will take income back". Keeping it netto seems the most transparent.

 

[Marengo]

The prime minister doesn't pay rent for the Catshuis. foreign presidents do not pay nything for their palaces either. They use it for their function after all, as does the king. And I am sure that the Dutch public does not want their head-of-state living in a new two-under-one-roof house in Capelle a/d IJssel.

I do not mind the costs as long as the money is not spent on private wishes of the king and his family.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The problem with rent is also that the King is enforced to live at this place, heavily guarded. So he does not have the choice: "I want to live in Capelle aan den IJssel" because he still has to function as the head of state.

And indeed, Joachim Gauck pays no rent for Schloss Bellevue or Villa Hammerschmidt. François Hollande pays no rent for the Palais de l'Élysée, the l'Hôtel de Matigny, the Palais de l'Alma (where he organizes his rendez-vous with his maîtresses), the Fort de Brégançon at the Riviera or the hunting pavillion (Pavillion de la Lanterne) at the Domain de Versailles (which functioned as the love nest for Nicolas Sarkozy and his maîtresse, now his present spouse)....

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The french people play ball alone. They have a little house for the president to stay , another little house for the rendez-vous of the president and another little Fort at the riviera for the vacation. Im speechless again.

Heu... the Palais de l'Élysée, the Palais de l'Alma and the l'Hôtel de Matigny do not classify as "little" , I think...

 

[Stefan]

The problem with rent is also that the King is enforced to live at this place, heavily guarded. So he does not have the choice: "I want to live in Capelle aan den IJssel" because he still has to function as the head of state.

And indeed, Joachim Gauck pays no rent for Schloss Bellevue or Villa Hammerschmidt. François Hollande pays no rent for the Palais de l'Élysée, the l'Hôtel de Matigny, the Palais de l'Alma (where he organizes his rendez-vous with his maîtresses), the Fort de Brégançon at the Riviera or the hunting pavillion (Pavillion de la Lanterne) at the Domain de Versailles (which functioned as the love nest for Nicolas Sarkozy and his maîtresse, now his present spouse)....

Actually the german President's don't live at Bellevue Castle. The only one who lived there weas Roman Herzog. The others have/had a Villa in Berlin-Dahelm at their disposal where they live.