New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024

[theroyalfly]

On the other hand there is a precedent giving a title to someone at their 25th birthday or granting a peerage at a certain age. Previously the stripping was done (and expected to take place for Joachim's children) at marriage. So, moving from 'marriage' to '25' to 'let's do it all at the same time', at least removes the idea that the problem is with the bride or groom of the prince(ss) - as the goal is just to reduce the number of princes of Denmark

Well, this is not granting a peerage at a certain age, this is stripping of royal title and style at 25 which has no recorded precedent.

Previously the stripping was done (and expected to take place for Joachim's children) at marriage.

This so wrong. Frederick IX, Margrethe's father, has liberalized the traditional practice of stripping royal titles due to morganatic marriages as long as they claim of noble blood and were known by courtesy titles like the marriage of Prince George Valdemar of Denmark to Anne, Viscountess Anson in 1950. Even Margethe herself benefited from this when he married Henrik in 1967 who used the title of count which is found to be flawed since most recent reference authors, specialists of the French nobility, do not consider them as part of French nobility. It was only in 1995 that Margethe allowed her children to marry commoners with neither title nor noble blood.

at least removes the idea that the problem is with the bride or groom of the prince(ss)

So how can we say that the Danish RF should go back to its old practice just to yet again reduce the number of princes of Denmark?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Previously the stripping was done (and expected to take place for Joachim's children) at marriage.

This so wrong. Frederick IX, Margrethe's father, has liberalized the traditional practice of stripping royal titles due to morganatic marriages as long as they claim of noble blood and were known by courtesy titles like the marriage of Prince George Valdemar of Denmark to Anne, Viscountess Anson in 1950. Even Margethe herself benefited from this when he married Henrik in 1967 [...] It was only in 1995 that Margethe allowed her children to marry commoners with neither title nor noble blood.

Nothing in your comment proves Somebody's comment "so wrong". In fact, it confirms her point: Previously, stripping of titles was done at marriage, because while Margrethe II and Frederik IX both "liberalized" their fathers' marital standards, neither one was willing to approve all marriages as dynastic.

• Christian X stripped Prince Aage, Prince Erik and Prince Viggo of their HRH predicates and "to Denmark" designations due to their marriages to foreign noble (Aage) or foreign commoner (Erik and Viggo) women. He fully stripped Princess Dagmar of her royal titles due to her marriage to a Danish nobleman.
  
  
• Frederik IX liberalized enough to approve marriages to foreign noble(wo)men, but stripped Prince Oluf, Prince Flemming, Prince Ingolf and Prince Christian of all their royal titles upon their marriages to Danish commoner women.
  
  
• Margrethe II liberalized even further and approved the marriages of her two sons to foreign commoner women, but made it clear to Princess Elisabeth, who was in a twenty-year partnership with a Danish commoner until his death in 1997, that if Elisabeth married her partner she would be stripped of all her royal titles.

From another perspective:

• In the reign of Christian X, when only males had rights to the throne, three marriages of Princes to Denmark were deemed "equal" and dynastic, while three marriages of Princes to Denmark were deemed "unequal" and non-dynastic.
  
  
• In the reign of Frederik IX, two marriages of a Prince or Princess to Denmark were granted approval, while five were denied approval (I am including the marriage of Princess Benedikte, as she never fulfilled the conditions for the conditional approval, but excluding the special case of Princess Anne-Marie's marriage to a foreign king).
  
  
• In the reign of Margrethe II, three marriages of a Prince to Denmark have been approved. No unapproved marriages have been concluded up to now.

In summary, during the reigns of the three most recent monarchs (1912-2022), 50% of marriages of princes and princesses in line to the throne have been non-dynastic, which has served to limit the size of the Royal House.


And again, it was Countess Alexandra of Frederiksborg, through her press secretary, who said that her sons were expected to lose their titles on marriage, before the Queen's recent decision.

In a telephone conversation with CNN, Helle von Wildenrath Løvgreen, press secretary to Countess Alexandra, said the countess was “very sad and in shock.

“She can’t believe why and why now, because there’s no good reason. They would lose their titles anyway when they get married one day. Her sons are young men so maybe they might get married in the near future so why shouldn’t it wait until that day so that the titles would disappear on a happy day?”

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/29/europe/denmark-queen-grandchildren-scli-intl/index.html​

 

[Princess Thyra]

I think it makes no sense to give so much titles nowadays. People don't want to pay taxes for lots of Royals with titles, working or not working. If the children of Joachim will not work later for the Royal family then it is easier for them to have no titles. In other cases one can see that titles are used for making money with them.
Royal houses today are fragile constructions. In reality they are not longer needed. To be head of a state by birth is not democratic. All royal houses must be careful. They will be there as long as the people they want them. And I'm sure that due to this they want to give money and titles as little as possible.

@thkon2
It is not important if they lose titles now or when they are 25 years old. The question is why Joachim didn't talk with the family about it. He knew it from May until September. That makes four months to talk about it but he didn't do anything and now he is moaning. It really looks not very intelligent.

I think it may indeed make a difference. To the youngest, time to grow and mature and accept. To the oldest, time to adjust lifestyles, and self concept and possibly marry. There is also a possible difference between not talking about it at all and not talking about something that will happen in 5 days. It is quite possible he had already been talking about this with them in general terms. Nothing said contradicts that idea.

 

[Sister Morphine]

(..)
I agree with Izzie, not a popular opinion here but I'm glad not to being alone in this.

In this new video the opening of the Danish Parliament is shown. It is hard to see the Queen, her son and wife and her sister (second daughter who shouldn't be a HRH or Princess of Denmark following the criteria taken for Joachim's grandchildren) full of smiles and happiness like if nothing had happened. Something very serious happened at least in that family. A little more seriousness would have been better, at least in the Queen who just has had a conflict with his second son and grandchildren where (with or without reason depending of what you think) they are very hurt and feel damaged. The video gives the idea that she doesn't care. Being a mother and grandmother myself (not a Queen, of course) I cannot understand that coldness.

I'll repeat myself from an earlier post.

Too many people are projecting their idea of what a mother or grandmother should be and finding themselves disappointed that QMII is not living up to it. That's your problem, not hers. Not all women, be they mothers and grandmothers or not, are warm and fuzzy. My own mother wasn't, much as I love her and miss her. It just wasn't who she was. QMII is not a warm and fuzzy kind of woman, she's said so herself several times. She tends to deal with things rather clinically and detached, and for some people, that's antithetical to how they'd expect a nice older woman to act.

Life goes on. Expecting everyone to walk around depressed and sullen over this is ridiculous. Working royals have work to do, including opening Parliament, and they're not going to sit there looking like they have hemorroids.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

But in a plan of slimming the monarchy I think it would have been a good sign to include her sister. The criteria is to reduce the princes and princesses but it appears to only touch Joachim's family.

Of course they are acting professional, but a little too much joy for my taste. Sometimes a little discretion (even if it is not felt from the heart) isn't bad to avoid causing your son and grandchildren more pain.

In essence it follows the more or less general pattern in other monarchies: children of a King or a future King are a Prince (Princess).

Frederik keeps his title. (He is the son of a Queen of Denmark and a future King himself).

Joachim keeps his title. (He is the son of a Queen of Denmark).

Benedikte keeps her title. (She is the daughter of a King of Denmark).

Christian keeps his title. (He is the son of a future King of Denmark and is a future King himself).

Isabella, Vincent and Josephine keep their title. (They are the children of a future King of Denmark).

The children of Joachim are grandchildren to Queen Margrethe, they are nephews and nieces to future King Frederik, they are cousins and cousines to future King Christian. They simply fall outside the slowly dominating new "standard" amongst Europe's reigning monarchies. No more, no less, apart from any familial feelings. It is just a new standard.

 

[Muhler]

I think it may indeed make a difference. To the youngest, time to grow and mature and accept. To the oldest, time to adjust lifestyles, and self concept and possibly marry. There is also a possible difference between not talking about it at all and not talking about something that will happen in 5 days. It is quite possible he had already been talking about this with them in general terms. Nothing said contradicts that idea.

Another new poster?!?
There must be something about this topics that draws people to start posting.
Then at least something good is coming out of this.

Congratulations on your first posts.

----

A general election was called today, to take place on 1st November. So for at least the next four weeks all attention will be focused on politics. That leaves the DRF time to mend things in piece.

- That we really don't need a general election right now is another matter.
Not with Putin sitting in a bunker somewhere going: Eenie, meenie, miney, nukes...

 

[Toledo]

I'll repeat myself from an earlier post.

Too many people are projecting their idea of what a mother or grandmother should be and finding themselves disappointed that QMII is not living up to it. That's your problem, not hers. Not all women, be they mothers and grandmothers or not, are warm and fuzzy. My own mother wasn't, much as I love her and miss her. It just wasn't who she was. QMII is not a warm and fuzzy kind of woman, she's said so herself several times. She tends to deal with things rather clinically and detached, and for some people, that's antithetical to how they'd expect a nice older woman to act.

Life goes on. Expecting everyone to walk around depressed and sullen over this is ridiculous. Working royals have work to do, including opening Parliament, and they're not going to sit there looking like they have hemorroids.

You got a good point there on expectations vs reality.
I'll add in QMII's decision is also being represented in the media from a point of view I see a bit chauvinistic, if compared to her cousin Charles III pondering on the same situation to shrink the HRH down to working royals. I'm getting the feeling she is being passed judgement upon more for being a woman taking strong decisions on family matters than as a head of state making decisions on who is expected to represent Denmark and the Crown as HRH.

Re motherhood, I was raised by my grandmother, our own family's version of QMII, and she too was neither fuzzy nor hugging everyone. She ruled as a caring matriarch four generations of descendants from her four children born in the 1920s. She made everyone be in touch with one another, often being a referee when my two uncles' wives had silly disputes with my mother and her sister. And she was one tough gal who volunteered as a nurse during WWI where she met my grandfather, also a volunteer soldier. On her passing, and the passing of her four children, the family outbranched far and apart. Our family version of QMII was, after all, the glue that bonded together 50-75 people, with sisters and nephews included, for decades.

Queen Margrette is also from those times were today's warm and fuzzy tendencies, the motherly ideals we see fabricated on TV, often forget she is a head of state. Like any male head of states, emotions need to be in check like Queen Elizabeth II successfully did for seven decades.

Her decision was as a leader, to thin down the HRH titles and responsibilities. But I get the feeling she is being judged for her gender more than for her determination. We have to wait and see if the headlines and well worded articles emphasizing on emotions will also be similar by the time King Charles III and other male heads of state address the same situation in their families too.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

With the general election in Denmark kicked off, I think it's safe to say the general public's interest in the titles of the 7th-10th in line has also been kicked to the curb.

Could be another reason for QMII's timing. Sure, it was noisy for a week but now she can spend the next 3 months planning a well-written little comment on it for the NY speech.

A proposal that makes no sense. Not sure where the Queen or her people got the idea of stripping somebody of their titles at 25. There's no precedent to this.

I don't disagree. But the bottom line is that Joachim has elaborated on much but somehow not on whether he returned a better alternative in the 4+ months since he asked for time to think the proposal over.

Indeed it has become an unnecessary - future - problem for M&F.
The 25 year solution was fine. Even a retroactive 18 year old solution would have worked.
I simply cannot understand what possessed QMII to change her mind in such a radical way.
M&F have now been handed a very odd precedence they have to relate to at some point. Fortunately such things is up to the monarch, so hopefully Frederik will decree a more thoughtful and elegant solution.

Not really. If this sets a precedent, all it means is that Isabella, Vincent and Josephine's children won't be princes and princesses. Which, barring changes, wouldn't have been the case for the girls either way. Now their only issue is that only Vincent will be able to pass the comital titles on to his kids.

In this new video the opening of the Danish Parliament is shown. It is hard to see the Queen, her son and wife and her sister (second daughter who shouldn't be a HRH or Princess of Denmark following the criteria taken for Joachim's grandchildren) full of smiles and happiness like if nothing had happened. Something very serious happened at least in that family. A little more seriousness would have been better, at least in the Queen who just has had a conflict with his second son and grandchildren where (with or without reason depending of what you think) they are very hurt and feel damaged. The video gives the idea that she doesn't care. Being a mother and grandmother myself (not a Queen, of course) I cannot understand that coldness.

Do you propose a period of mourning? Black clothes all around? Because the 7th-10th in line now "only" get to be counts and countess. I don't agree with the retroactive removal and I definitely don't agree with the way it was done but I think a little perspective is due. What's done is done. What needs to be done from now on should take place behind the scenes. QMII, Frederik, Mary and Benedikte are professional and don't let their personal problems affect their public engagements and the opening of the parliament is a celebration of our democracy, so naturally they were happy.

 

[Toledo]

Do you propose a period of mourning? Black clothes all around? Because the 7th-10th in line now "only" get to be counts and countess...

Before I log out, until tonight maybe, I have to say that line made me laugh and almost spit my 2nd cup of coffee on the monitor! In my head I got the image of Alexandra doing a silent protest by wearing her tiara upside down.
Have a great day Forum pals, I'll try to be back later.

Ps Welcome to the forum Princess Thyra and thanks for sharing your take on the thread! Hope we read more comments from you!

 

[Prinsara]

You got a good point there on expectations vs reality.
I'll add in QMII's decision is also being represented in the media from a point of view I see a bit chauvinistic, if compared to her cousin Charles III pondering on the same situation to shrink the HRH down to working royals. I'm getting the feeling she is being passed judgement upon more for being a woman taking strong decisions on family matters than as a head of state making decisions on who is expected to represent Denmark and the Crown as HRH.

Re motherhood, I was raised by my grandmother, our own family's version of QMII, and she too was neither fuzzy nor hugging everyone. She ruled as a caring matriarch four generations of descendants from her four children born in the 1920s. She made everyone be in touch with one another, often being a referee when my two uncles' wives had silly disputes with my mother and her sister. And she was one tough gal who volunteered as a nurse during WWI where she met my grandfather, also a volunteer soldier. On her passing, and the passing of her four children, the family outbranched far and apart. Our family version of QMII was, after all, the glue that bonded together 50-75 people, with sisters and nephews included, for decades.

Queen Margrette is also from those times were today's warm and fuzzy tendencies, the motherly ideals we see fabricated on TV, often forget she is a head of state. Like any male head of states, emotions need to be in check like Queen Elizabeth II successfully did for seven decades.

Her decision was as a leader, to thin down the HRH titles and responsibilities. But I get the feeling she is being judged for her gender more than for her determination. We have to wait and see if the headlines and well worded articles emphasizing on emotions will also be similar by the time King Charles III and other male heads of state address the same situation in their families too.

And as I've said before, I don't think gender is responsible for this, as much as a small bit of thoughtfulness and decency, combined with a proper court machinery plan. If Carl Gustav had done the same thing, people would have been equally appalled.

If Margrethe had issued a decently coordinated response with an image of her family united, like she likes to project, she would have enjoyed a lot more support.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The brouhaha surrounding the title changes to Prince Joachim's children kind of put a damper on the queen's Golden Jubilee Year.

 

[Saragli]

The brouhaha surrounding the title changes to Prince Joachim's children kind of put a damper on the queen's Golden Jubilee Year.

Yes it unfortunately has. I wonder if the government encouraged HM to release the statement sooner than later due to the upcoming election?

Many keep bringing up with Swedish model as the model the Danes should have followed. While the announcement, and PR, with the Swedish decision was pretty perfect - we won't really know how successful it will be until Queen Victoria is on the throne and she has numerous niece/nephew Prince/ss's around the world getting up to who knows what.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Why would they? The fuss about the titles have had no parliamentary impact.

 

[Saragli]

Why would they? The fuss about the titles have had no parliamentary impact.

It's not about any parliamentary impact but about reputation. Monarchy's are fragile, we all know this, ensuring their future involves keeping a tight control. That is easier to do when there are fewer officially titled peoples in the family. Queen Victoria will have a very hard time telling her nieces/nephews what they can, and cannot due. Especially if they live overseas.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

My question was: Why would the government want a say in when QMII put out the statement?

 

[Izzie]

Another new poster?!?
There must be something about this topics that draws people to start posting.
Then at least something good is coming out of this.

Congratulations on your first posts.

----

A general election was called today, to take place on 1st November. So for at least the next four weeks all attention will be focused on politics. That leaves the DRF time to mend things in piece.

- That we really don't need a general election right now is another matter.
Not with Putin sitting in a bunker somewhere going: Eenie, meenie, miney, nukes...

I just wanted to express how I am not sure it will go away. The press (BT and se&her for example) want their pound of flesh and since QMII won't answer a press question then they are going to be chasing Mary and Frederik around and sticking a microphone in their faces when they have events. That is unfortunate as it takes the attention away from their events/work. I hope that Mary's unicef event is not a footnote like her mental health event was. That is surely not fair. Plus, Frederik is still fair game as he has not had a public event since this occurred. We shall see.

 

[Saragli]

My question was: Why would the government want a say in when QMII put out the statement?

Ah, thank you for clarifying. My thinking is the government does not want distractions during a democratic election process. If this news came out over the next few weeks it would distract people from the politics of an election. My guess is the government advised the Queen to release the statement before, or to wait until after, the election cycle.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

My question was: Why would the government want a say in when QMII put out the statement?

Because according the Danish Constitution the King is inviolable, his royal person is sacrosanct. The ministers are responsible and answerable for all acts of the King.

This automatically means that the Government (read: the Statsminister) has been informed and agrees with the Queen in her zest to streamline her House. It is a royal privilege that the King organizes his House but ultimately the ministers are responsible for his decisions.

Imagine that a sort of Me Too affair erupts involving staff of the House, or maybe the House does not reflect diversity, or the work conditions are abysmal, or a prince misuses himself as a commercial venue: it is the Queen whom organizes her House but anyone understands that the questions and eventual critics will be fired at the responsible ministers. That is why the Government is always involved.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Again, my question was not whether or not the PM has been informed of QMII's decision but the government would want a say in the timing of the announcement of a, to most people, relatively unimportant, change of titles.

Ah, thank you for clarifying. My thinking is the government does not want distractions during a democratic election process. If this news came out over the next few weeks it would distract people from the politics of an election. My guess is the government advised the Queen to release the statement before, or to wait until after, the election cycle.

I see what you mean but two things: First, it has been public knowledge that the PM would have to call an election before the beginning of the new parliamentary year since 2 July as she had been given an ultimatum by one of her supporting parties. Not only would that have given QMII rich time to plan around it but, assuming she was indeed asked by the government to schedule around the election, why choose to do it in haste rather than wait a month? I think it's giving Joachim a bit too much credit to think his revolt would take focus from the election

I just wanted to express how I am not sure it will go away. The press (BT and se&her for example) want their pound of flesh and since QMII won't answer a press question then they are going to be chasing Mary and Frederik around and sticking a microphone in their faces when they have events. That is unfortunate as it takes the attention away from their events/work. I hope that Mary's unicef event is not a footnote like her mental health event was. That is surely not fair. Plus, Frederik is still fair game as he has not had a public event since this occurred. We shall see.

Jacob Heinel Jensen may be determined for all this to play out in public but in reality, it only takes as much focus as their readers are willing to give it. And unless he can get another reaction out of Joachim, which I very much hope he can't, repeated weekly articles of "Mary/Frederik/QMII/Benedikte didn't answer" aren't gonna take focus away from anything nor are they gonna capture anyone's interest.

 

[duke of poliganc]

I don’t like the condescending tone directed at prince Jochaim, Marie, Alexandra and their children for thinking that titles do matter and that it’s a part of their identity.

Like many did say it was important enough for princess Elizabeth to decide against marriage of her 20 years partner.

Princess Elizabeth was never labeled as self entitled, spoiled or shallow for wanting to keep her identity as a princess even though she would have still kept her own fortune and get to be styled as a countess like her siblings.

I see this as the true implementation of the saying “if the public get to the habit of making kings they will soon have a habit of removing them”.

If you caved to the trendy PR of only working royal have titles then next it will be titles for the monarch and the heir, only then a lot would think what is difference between having a monarch/heir and a president/vis president.

The public will think at least they get to choose the president.

The term of a working royal is a reason to abolish the monarchy in all, it takes away the essence of the monarchy which is a Royal family not a working royal personals.

 

[Somebody]

In essence it follows the more or less general pattern in other monarchies: children of a King or a future King are a Prince (Princess).

Frederik keeps his title. (He is the son of a Queen of Denmark and a future King himself).

Joachim keeps his title. (He is the son of a Queen of Denmark).

Benedikte keeps her title. (She is the daughter of a King of Denmark).

Christian keeps his title. (He is the son of a future King of Denmark and is a future King himself).

Isabella, Vincent and Josephine keep their title. (They are the children of a future King of Denmark).

The children of Joachim are grandchildren to Queen Margrethe, they are nephews and nieces to future King Frederik, they are cousins and cousines to future King Christian. They simply fall outside the slowly dominating new "standard" amongst Europe's reigning monarchies. No more, no less, apart from any familial feelings. It is just a new standard.

Thanks for repeating that point. Some people continue to state that Benedikte is comparable to Joachim's children. She is not. Joachim's children are related in second degree (grandchildren) to a monarch - Benedikte only one degree: she is the daughter (and later also sister (and probably one day aunt) of monarchs. So, she is comparable to Joachim himself (the son of the current monarch and brother of the future one (and probably one day uncle of king Christian) as well as Isabella, Vincent and Josephine (all children and siblings and aunt/uncle of future monarchs).

 

[Javaward]

I don’t like the condescending tone directed at prince Jochaim, Marie, Alexandra and their children for thinking that titles do matter and that it’s a part of their identity.

This! It seems pretty clear that titles are everything to royalty. It has to be - what else would differentiate them for everyone else in this day and age when their role is more emotional than functional?

I don't really know much about the Danish Royal Family (but this actually making the news in the U.S.) and I don't want to insult anyone, but the Queen's "apology" seemed fairly disingenuous. It is very difficult to accept the idea that she did not understand how much of an impact this would have on her grandchildren. The environment in which she was raised and her children were raised surely supported the notion that their position and title defines their lives. This is not something easily adjusted when it remains the way in which your family views the world and their place in it.

So while I understand that people have different views on whether having a smaller Royal House is the right move, I don't understand why there is controversy over how this action is being received. That being said, I am confused on certain points:

1. The older two grandchildren were given the title of prince in order to be "on reserve" in case the CP didn't have kids? Why not make them Counts and elevate them later on if needed? Isn't that what the Japanese Royals are doing (or have done, I am not up on this House either)?

2. Someone posted earlier that Prince Joachim's kids are not financially dependent on the Queen. So how does stripping them help? Is it just the literal number of people in Denmark with the title of Prince/Princess?

3. If the Queen wanted to give them more freedom why have them go through school/adolescence etc...with a title that makes them stand out from their peers? Also, doesn't everyone already know who they are? How will their lives (other then said title) be easier/more free now?

Thank you to anyone who can answer for me!

 

[Muhler]

This! It seems pretty clear that titles are everything to royalty. It has to be - what else would differentiate them for everyone else in this day and age when their role is more emotional than functional?

I don't really know much about the Danish Royal Family (but this actually making the news in the U.S.) and I don't want to insult anyone, but the Queen's "apology" seemed fairly disingenuous. It is very difficult to accept the idea that she did not understand how much of an impact this would have on her grandchildren. The environment in which she was raised and her children were raised surely supported the notion that their position and title defines their lives. This is not something easily adjusted when it remains the way in which your family views the world and their place in it.

So while I understand that people have different views on whether having a smaller Royal House is the right move, I don't understand why there is controversy over how this action is being received. That being said, I am confused on certain points:

1. The older two grandchildren were given the title of prince in order to be "on reserve" in case the CP didn't have kids? Why not make them Counts and elevate them later on if needed? Isn't that what the Japanese Royals are doing (or have done, I am not up on this House either)?

2. Someone posted earlier that Prince Joachim's kids are not financially dependent on the Queen. So how does stripping them help? Is it just the literal number of people in Denmark with the title of Prince/Princess?

3. If the Queen wanted to give them more freedom why have them go through school/adolescence etc...with a title that makes them stand out from their peers? Also, doesn't everyone already know who they are? How will their lives (other then said title) be easier/more free now?

Thank you to anyone who can answer for me!

First, congratulations on your first post.

Short answers before bedtime:
1) That could have been a solution. But at the time Joachim and especially Alexandra were the superstars of the DRF. And there had been some debate as to whether Joachim would make a better king than Frederik.
And perhaps QMII and PH didn't count on having that many grandchildren?

2) And that is the core if the issue. The fewer full titled royal roaming the streets, the more exclusive it is. And the less deflated the concept of a full royal is. It may be a bit snobbish, but imagine one day complaining to costumer service to either a full royal or about a full royal.
And the fewer full royals about the less chance of one of them making a scandal that will reflect on the whole of the DRF.
And finally it makes sense to limit the full royals to those who are active or children. - We can't get enough of cute little princes and princesses, but once they become adults it's a question of whether they work for the DRF or themselves.
It's also a question of apanage: Apanage = working for the DRF = a royal title.

3) That's the paradox about modern royalty. They have to be ordinary in their day to day lives off stage, but at the same time they also have to extraordinary. It' a very delicate balancing act.
Because it is beneficial for royal children to mingle with ordinary Danes. And it does make them more relatable. And it is also a part of them being living role models as well as national representatives.

 

[FigTree]

First, congratulations on your first post.

Short answers before bedtime:
1) That could have been a solution. But at the time Joachim and especially Alexandra were the superstars of the DRF. And there had been some debate as to whether Joachim would make a better king than Frederik.
And perhaps QMII and PH didn't count on having that many grandchildren?

2) And that is the core if the issue. The fewer full titled royal roaming the streets, the more exclusive it is. And the less deflated the concept of a full royal is. It may be a bit snobbish, but imagine one day complaining to costumer service to either a full royal or about a full royal.
And the fewer full royals about the less chance of one of them making a scandal that will reflect on the whole of the DRF.
And finally it makes sense to limit the full royals to those who are active or children. - We can't get enough of cute little princes and princesses, but once they become adults it's a question of whether they work for the DRF or themselves.
It's also a question of apanage: Apanage = working for the DRF = a royal title.

3) That's the paradox about modern royalty. They have to be ordinary in their day to day lives off stage, but at the same time they also have to extraordinary. It' a very delicate balancing act.
Because it is beneficial for royal children to mingle with ordinary Danes. And it does make them more relatable. And it is also a part of them being living role models as well as national representatives.

I think this is it.

From the point of view of the tax payers who fund these monarchies…they think all the beautiful baby Prince and Princess are cute but no body wants to fund them when they A. Grow up B. Don’t work for the state. So ergo why have the titles. This May smart BUT it is Logistically the right call.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think this is it.

From the point of view of the tax payers who fund these monarchies…they think all the beautiful baby Prince and Princess are cute but no body wants to fund them when they A. Grow up B. Don’t work for the state. So ergo why have the titles. This May smart BUT it is Logistically the right call.

But ithis is not very much about taxpayers because it has already been decided that - in line with other monarchies - only the future King will receive an apanage, not his siblings (like Joachim now).

So the children of Joachim and the siblings of Prince Christian were never to get a singele Kroner from the State at all.

 

[victor1319]

But ithis is not very much about taxpayers because it has already been decided that - in line with other monarchies - only the future King will receive an apanage, not his siblings (like Joachim now).

Forgive me for asking, but when has it been decided, that Prince Joachim gets no apanage? Last time I checked, he got half a million Euro or Dollars annually.

 

[Denville]

Forgive me for asking, but when has it been decided, that Prince Joachim gets no apanage? Last time I checked, he got half a million Euro or Dollars annually.

I agree that he does have money from the state but weren't they trying to get him into a job where he would be self supporting? however he got ill, and was complaining about being pushed around?

 

[winifred]

Duc et Pair "only the future King will receive an apanage, not his siblings (like Joachim now)"

victor 1319 "Forgive me for asking, but when has it been decided, that Prince Joachim gets no apanage? Last time I checked, he got half a million Euro or Dollars annually."

Victor, I think Duc et Pair was saying that in the future "only a future King will receive an apanage, not his siblings" unlike the present day when Joachim, as Fred's brother, does receive an apanage.

 

[Denville]

Duc et Pair "only the future King will receive an apanage, not his siblings (like Joachim now)"

victor 1319 "Forgive me for asking, but when has it been decided, that Prince Joachim gets no apanage? Last time I checked, he got half a million Euro or Dollars annually."

Victor, I think Duc et Pair was saying that in the future "only a future King will receive an apanage, not his siblings" unlike the present day when Joachim, as Fred's brother, does receive an apanage.

so are they trying to get rid of Joachim's apanage, it seems unfair to take it away form him in middle age. If they do surely the RF should give him some private support?

 

[Toledo]

A good solution would be a Trust investment that can generate a monthly income while he considers what to do next.

For example on what to do next, his UK cousin Prince Harry follows the trend often seen in retired public figures by creating charities and organizations to help others. This helps to assign themselves a salary to support their needs. Many groups would benefit by having a recognizable figure like Joachin to represent them and highlight the work for the community.