New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024

[tommy100]

Is it me or is the timing of this big announcement a bit strange?

Joachim, Marie and all four of their children were in Denmark for the Jubilee. Even Joachim's former wife was there.

Wouldn't that have been a perfect time to have a family meeting?

This is what makes me feel Margrethe is, to be frank, pretty cold and dumb. She knew Joachim wasn't happy, yet when they were all there for the Jubilee she choose not to try and talk about it, to sort it out mother to son/grandchildren. She let them bask in the jubilee celebrations then sent her aide to tell them she was taking away their titles...that is ice cold.

I saw somewhere here earlier that 55% of Danes agree with the decision, that is a majority but by Danish RF polling standards it also seems pretty low.

 

[Toledo]

Maybe we have different definitions of spare, but, when Froilan was born, Prince Felipe was the heir and Infanta Elena, who is titled, was the spare.

Agreed. Had King Juan Carlos made Felipe resign his rights to the succession during the Letizia escandalo, today we would have a divorced Queen Elena I, her son Froilan as heir and her daughter as his spare.

In terms of this thread, my opinion on how it would work out narrowing down some royals in Denmark would have been to keep all Frederick's children as HRM. Then when his heir produces children of his own, reshuffle the cards and remove the HRH from the others but leave them as princes so-and-so till marriage of end of their lives.
This solution could have been applied to Joachin's kids till one by one they un-princed themselves upon marriage.

 

[RoyalMusings]

Joachim and Marie stated that neither the CP nor the queen contacted them.

I do think it is sad the family haven’t reached out, perhaps it would have stopped M&J need to talk to the press so much. I just can’t believe this grenade was thrown, and everyone just carried on without a face to face meeting.

 

[tommy100]

they are led by Margrethe who now seems pretty ice cold, wouldn't be surprised if she told them family to remain silent in regards to Joachim and Marie.

Honestly, I'd love a Danish journalist to ask either the Queen, Fred or Mary why they didn't deal with this face to face. That's the cruelest part of it.

 

[kimebear]

Yes and no. The Queen is not like the president of a republic. When she makes resolutions " relating to legislation and government", such resolutions must be countersigned by one or more ministers to be legally valid, and the minister or ministers who countersign it become responsible for the resolution (Part III, S.14 of the Danish constitution). The Queen herself is not responsible since she is merely rubber-stamping a decision made by the Parliament or the council of ministers. That is compatible with the general principle that Denmark is a parliamentary democracy.

When the Queen makes, however, decisions relating to her own household, including titles of members of her family, my understanding is that her decisions are absolute unless or until Parliament decides to limit that prerogative by law, which has not happened yet, since there is no law AFAIK on princely titles in Denmark.

I'm not debating her legal authority in making this decision. I was merely commenting on the implication that she doesn't have to answer questions about it. Technically, I suppose she doesn't, but it's a bad look if she refuses to comment on something that clearly has her citizens (and others) talking about it.

The same people who are applauding her decision to appeal to her subjects' idea of what a modern monarchy looks like by slimming down the DRF are also the ones who seem to think that she is above questioning about it. So either she plays to the masses, or she doesn't and the necessity of taking these titles is moot unless it's a personal jab at Joachim and his family.

It's bad optics, no matter how you put it.

 

[tommy100]

Assuming that everything that has been said by QMII, Mary, Benedikte (with Mary and Benedikte not really saying anything that could not be expected) Alexandra, Nikolai, Joachim and Marie is true.
There are still a number of questions that needs to be answered before any sense can come out of this:

Why are the titles removed now?
Why was the first proposal changed so radically?
Why no discussions between May and September? There were plenty of opportunities to talk face to face. And they do have working phones in France, as far as I'm informed.
Why no family meeting? You'd think that was a natural thing to do.
To what extent was Frederik involved?
And if he was involved, why was he so passive?
If Joachim, Marie and Alexandra are so upset, why have they not tried calling QMII, Frederik or Benedikte before talking to the press?

Presuming Joachim's version is absolutely correct, if I were him I would be on the phone to QMII within five nanoseconds after getting the message from the Chief of Court! In fact I wouldn't even need a phone, they would be able to hear me shout all the way from Paris!
And if she didn't answer I would be on the next flight to Copenhagen.
And on the way to the airport I would call Frederik to ask what on earth is going on.

- If you put five of the best communications experts and diplomats on the planet is a room and told them to outline the worst possible way of handling this, they couldn't do a worse job!
The only consolation for me is that we are probably in for just as much drama in Norway and UK within a short while. It'll keep us entertained while we sit warming ourselves around a candle this winter. - If it gets real cold, we'll light the candle...

I agree with all of this Muhler, given they were all at the Jubilee why no discussion then? Face to face? In the Royal Court heads should roll for this IMO though the biggest mistakes have come from the Queen IMO.

(..)

 

[Erin9]

There's nothing to suggest that she was careless. It's not her job as queen to keep Joachim and his family happy.

For goodness sake, she's the queen of Denmark. She shouldn't have to run around consoling and explaining herself to her grandchildren.

If a good relationship with her grandchildren isn’t a priority for her then I completely agree: she has no need to personally discuss decisions she makes with her grandchildren that actually impact them. She is The Queen. Delegating this has worked great….

 

[kimebear]

The Danish taxpayers should only be consulted if the decisions the sovereign makes will affect them. Four of her grandchildren going from prince/princess to count/countess does not affect the Danish taxpayer in any shape, form, or size. Not even on a fractal level. Especially since none of them, including their parents, I believe, get money from the average Danish taxpayer.

There are times when the sovereign owes an explanation to the people for what they say and do. This is not one of those times.

Then what is the point of taking the titles from her grandchildren in the first place if the decision doesn't affect the Danish taxpayers? If the opinions of the Danish citizens play no part in how the DRF conduct their affairs, then why take the titles to appeal to them by making the DRF smaller?


It's an illogical argument to make, since QM clearly seems to think that it matters.

 

[polyesco]

Communication works both ways.
All we have heard is Joachim, Marie, and Alexandra's version of the events. Of course they are not going to mention their shortcomings. And to an extend they shouldn't. Some things should be discussed behind close doors and kept there.
My sympathies are very low for Joachim and co.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

A Queen answers to her citizens if she wants to keep her crown. She's not above questioning, as she is funded by the Danish taxpayer who have the right to know why she makes the decisions she makes. When she is a private citizen, she can refuse questions.

No. The Queen does not answer to her citizens. She simply is not allowed to do conform Article 12 of the Constitution: The King shall not be answerable for his actions; his person shall be sacrosanct. The Ministers shall be responsible.

And most likely both the Government as well the Folketing (Parliament) fully support any limitation of the Royal House, so there is nothing answerable to for the Ministers other than some private egos of some De Monpezats.

 

[Fence Sitter]

I'm not sure why people keep assuming Joachim and family would have had the same reactions however they were treated, rather than the more logical "if this wasn't such a unnecessary sh*tshow, none of this would be happening".

Of course we don't know the workings of the court with 100 % certainty. I made assumptions. But there is no way past the fact that Joachim saw a draft proposal back in May, that's five months ago. How much did he try to prepare his children after that to the changes that were coming? What effort did he make to change those plans? In an ideal world the Queen would have been more proactive, no doubt. But if an announcement comes as a tremendous shock five months after he got the definite heads up from Amalienborg, then the problem can't be in the wording. It's the result that he's unhappy about, plain and simple.

You are right of course, that Margrethe and Joachim also have similarities. But there must be something in their personalities that make mutual understanding absolutely impossible. Problems like this simply don't arise otherwise. If neither of them phones the other, it's not because they've forgotten about it, but because they don't understand each other so any call would be fruitless.

I also noted your previous post about the Raffles commercial. I admit I hadn't seen it before today. But even if I had seen it right the moment it was published, I would never have commented it here. The reason for that is simple. I would have thought that a) QMII didn't know about it before it came out, and the miss-step won't be repeated, or b) QMII knows Nikolai is going to marry his Danish girlfriend and lose his title and status then anyway, so there is no need to give him negative feedback anymore.

In both cases, it would have been a very minor issue with no long-term consequences. Now, however, we know that Nikolai and Felix both have career plans that might make the Raffles commercial appear more like the beginning of their future rather than a peculiarity.

Some commentators in this thread also commented the titles of the Hellenic Royal House. It should be noted that princely titles never had any legal force in Greece, not even in the years when the country was actually a monarchy. Obviously it was never an option for the King of Greece to let his children be known as plain Mr./Miss Oldenburg/Glücksburg. So the prince/princess titles were invented, not as legal titles but as courtesy styles. Before the 1953 reforms all Greek princes and princesses were also members of the Royal House of Denmark. The Danish succession reform ended this, but the Greek Royal House chose to style their members as they had done before. So the titles have no legal force in Denmark (since 1953) and no legal force in Greece (not even before 1973), but in this case it's family tradition, not law or decrees that matter.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

A Queen answers to her citizens if she wants to keep her crown. She's not above questioning, as she is funded by the Danish taxpayer who have the right to know why she makes the decisions she makes. When she is a private citizen, she can refuse questions.

No. The Queen does not answer to her citizens. She simply is not allowed to do conform Article 12 of the Constitution: The King shall not be answerable for his actions; his person shall be sacrosanct. The Ministers shall be responsible.

And most likely both the Government as well the Folketing (Parliament) fully support any limitation of the Royal House, so there is nothing answerable to for the Ministers other than private egos of some De Monpezats

 

[Erin9]

I do think it is sad the family haven’t reached out, perhaps it would have stopped M&J need to talk to the press so much. I just can’t believe this grenade was thrown, and everyone just carried on without a face to face meeting.

I wonder about that too. This appears to be a form of communicating since NO ONE is communicating with each other.

This is just mind blowing. And it obviously starts at the top with The Queen herself staffing this out.

It seems sad, odd, and counter productive to behave in this manner- no one talking.

I’m flashing back to a TV show called The West Wing where the president got his staff to do his dirty work for him regarding a job related issue with his wife. Didn’t work out well for him either. Fictional show- but accurate in how people feel about this sort of thing.

 

[Toledo]

This topic we all are commenting about is really a tough one to take sides on. At the start I was team QMII on taking some heat now to save Frederick make these decisions later on. But when I saw the interview with Joachin's son, it hit me. This is tough to be kicked out of the nucleus of your own small family, HRH or no HRH.

And as they say, to add insult to injury saying it's for their own good is so patronizing it hurts. Queen MII should have at least called them in, all four, and made them understand it's not a rejection on them, just a process to pave for the future.

So really, I feel like a car parked on a blinking red light on this subject while we wait for January 2023. I wonder if Joachin's Søns and Datter will tell (grandma) Farmor next year "we took a vote and decided to remove your Farmor title. From now on we'll all call you Marge"

By the way, thanks to Muhler and the Danish 101 lessons on this thread :
https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f187/who-is-my-cousin-please-explain-49471-2.html#post2496937

 

[Prinsara]

Of course we don't know the workings of the court with 100 % certainty. I made assumptions. But there is no way past the fact that Joachim saw a draft proposal back in May, that's five months ago. How much did he try to prepare his children after that to the changes that were coming? What effort did he make to change those plans? In an ideal world the Queen would have been more proactive, no doubt. But if an announcement comes as a tremendous shock five months after he got the definite heads up from Amalienborg, then the problem can't be in the wording. It's the result that he's unhappy about, plain and simple.

You are right of course, that Margrethe and Joachim also have similarities. But there must be something in their personalities that make mutual understanding absolutely impossible. Problems like this simply don't arise otherwise. If neither of them phones the other, it's not because they've forgotten about it, but because they don't understand each other so any call would be fruitless.

Yes. Mutual suboptimal people skills plus a court full of go-betweens can do that.

From what we do know, the May draft was that the children would lose the titles at 25. Joachim says he was presented with the current plan as a fait accompli last week. That is a BIG issue in the wording.

 

[KristehH]

I still think it would have been a better move to simply restrict royal titles in the future generations, but not take them away from the four existing grandchildren. It would streamline the monarchy, but would likely be much easier to accept.

Didn't QM originally agree that Nikolai and Felix could model? If she has since changed her mind, why not discuss it with them? Couldn't she tell them not to use their titles in their work? Or flat out tell them that if they want to continue that work, then they will have to give up the royal titles? If it's career choices and commercialization that are concerns, it still seems arbitrary and unfair, at the very least, to not give them a choice, especially if she had approved it in the beginning.

Yes, Margrethe is the queen and she has the right to make this decision, but she is also a mother and a grandmother. Why not try to find compromises that could achieve her goals but also not hurt her family? It looks like the Swedish Royal Family managed it, why not follow their example?

Perhaps J, M, and A shouldn't be speaking so much to the press, but I can understand them feeling very hurt, especially if their children are hurt. I don't know if the story about Athena being bullied is true, but I certainly think it's possible. The story has been in the news, even here is the US, so I'm sure the kids in Henrik's and Athena's schools know and kids can be cruel.

Imo, there were several ways the royal titles situation could have been handled, and QM chose the worst.

 

[Mbruno]

I am not sure why everyone is assuming a priori that Nikolai would lose his title if he married his Danish girlfriend. It is true that marriages in the past of Danish princes to Danish brides were denied consent, but that was more because they were expected to marry equally and, to do that, unless they married their own Danish cousins, they necessarily had to marry a foreign princess. There is only one Royal House in Denmark, and marriage to any Danish subject who was not a member of the Royal House, even someone from the nobility, would be unequal.

It is also true that Joachim and Frederik married foreign women, but, now that the requeriment of equal marriages is no longer enforced, we can't automatically assume that someone as low as Nikolai in the order of succession would be denied consent to marry if he wanted to marry a Dane. In fact, if he asked for consent in King Frederik X's reign, I would be very surprised if Frederik denied it.

 

[Erin9]

New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022

Then what is the point of taking the titles from her grandchildren in the first place if the decision doesn't affect the Danish taxpayers? If the opinions of the Danish citizens play no part in how the DRF conduct their affairs, then why take the titles to appeal to them by making the DRF smaller?


It's an illogical argument to make, since QM clearly seems to think that it matters.

It is a bit interesting to me that these titles are seen as so meaningless to some that no one should care that they’re being taken away…..yet they are meaningful enough to take.

Yeah- I know. Optics.

 

[Muhler]

Then what is the point of taking the titles from her grandchildren in the first place if the decision doesn't affect the Danish taxpayers? If the opinions of the Danish citizens play no part in how the DRF conduct their affairs, then why take the titles to appeal to them by making the DRF smaller?


It's an illogical argument to make, since QM clearly seems to think that it matters.

That is a big deal.

The majority, including myself, is of the opinion that it is necessary to keep the number of titled royals down.
In a country of only 5.8 million we can't have too many royals running around, before it deflates the myth of royals being something special.

And royals have limits to what they can do, who they can work for, who they can associate. If they make a wrong step, it reflects in the DRF as a whole instead of them as individuals.
It is also a major no go to profit from the royal status. The DRF cracks down hard on anyone who does that, including foreign businesses and persons.

As for the taxpayer issue. That was brought up when Joachim became an attache in France. To put it simple: No work for the DRF = No apanage. And by logic extension no title.

- So IMO it is a correct move to strip Joachim's children of their titles.
Nikolai and Felix got their titles before Frederik married Mary, so at the time Nikolai was the future heir.

The way it was executed however has been nothing short of terrible.

And I simply cannot understand why QMII chose to sack Joachim's children, with three months notice.
Something must have happened for her to make that decision. What?

And BTW congratulations on your first posts.

 

[kimebear]

No. The Queen does not answer to her citizens. She simply is not allowed to do conform Article 12 of the Constitution: The King shall not be answerable for his actions; his person shall be sacrosanct. The Ministers shall be responsible.

And most likely both the Government as well the Folketing (Parliament) fully support any limitation of the Royal House, so there is nothing answerable to for the Ministers other than private egos of some De Monpezats

Well, if the Queen isn't answerable to the Danish citizens then it's no wonder that she may worry for her crown. I would have a hard time seeing my tax money go to support a lavish lifestyle for someone who is beyond approach or questioning.


Seems to me, that's why a lot of other countries got rid of their monarchies full stop. QM should keep that in mind.

 

[tommy100]

Muhler does Joachim still get an appanage? I assume so as they stated in their interview they'd still work for the crown.

Thanks for the info re Martha Louise in Norway. I wonder if they'll learn from this prime example of how NOT to do it. I hope the Danish Court doesn't use as action in Norway to justify Daisy's actions, ML choose to become involved with a controversial sham man, Joachim and Mary and their children don't seem to have done anything wrong (I believe if The Queen had an issue with the boys commercial work she could have put a stop to it, them using their titles to do so at least!)

 

[Muhler]

I still think it would have been a better move to simply restrict royal titles in the future generations, but not take them away from the four existing grandchildren. It would streamline the monarchy, but would likely be much easier to accept.

Didn't QM originally agree that Nikolai and Felix could model? If she has since changed her mind, why not discuss it with them? Couldn't she tell them not to use their titles in their work? Or flat out tell them that if they want to continue that work, then they will have to give up the royal titles? If it's career choices and commercialization that are concerns, it still seems arbitrary and unfair, at the very least, to not give them a choice, especially if she had approved it in the beginning.

Yes, Margrethe is the queen and she has the right to make this decision, but she is also a mother and a grandmother. Why not try to find compromises that could achieve her goals but also not hurt her family? It looks like the Swedish Royal Family managed it, why not follow their example?

Perhaps J, M, and A shouldn't be speaking so much to the press, but I can understand them feeling very hurt, especially if their children are hurt. I don't know if the story about Athena being bullied is true, but I certainly think it's possible. The story has been in the news, even here is the US, so I'm sure the kids in Henrik's and Athena's schools know and kids can be cruel.

Imo, there were several ways the royal titles situation could have been handled, and QM chose the worst.

I interpret that bit as someone in Athena's school coming up to her asking whether she is the one who is no longer a princess. A perfectly understandable question to ask among children.

And to me that suggests that Athena and Henrik are not called prince and princess in their school. The other children just know it, just as they know that Masja in 4B is the daughter of X.

Joachim and his wives are in an emotional stage and I think we have all been guilty of, shall we say, present facts to further out view in such a state. That's only natural. Not least when it's about our children and hurt feelings.

And congratulations to you as well, on your first posts.

Muhler does Joachim still get an appanage? I assume so as they stated in their interview they'd still work for the crown.

Yes.
He gets his apanage instead of a salary from the army.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I still think it would have been a better move to simply restrict royal titles in the future generations, but not take them away from the four existing grandchildren. It would streamline the monarchy, but would likely be much easier to accept.

Didn't QM originally agree that Nikolai and Felix could model? If she has since changed her mind, why not discuss it with them? Couldn't she tell them not to use their titles in their work? Or flat out tell them that if they want to continue that work, then they will have to give up the royal titles? If it's career choices and commercialization that are concerns, it still seems arbitrary and unfair, at the very least, to not give them a choice, especially if she had approved it in the beginning.

Yes, Margrethe is the queen and she has the right to make this decision, but she is also a mother and a grandmother. Why not try to find compromises that could achieve her goals but also not hurt her family? It looks like the Swedish Royal Family managed it, why not follow their example?

Perhaps J, M, and A shouldn't be speaking so much to the press, but I can understand them feeling very hurt, especially if their children are hurt. I don't know if the story about Athena being bullied is true, but I certainly think it's possible. The story has been in the news, even here is the US, so I'm sure the kids in Henrik's and Athena's schools know and kids can be cruel.

Imo, there were several ways the royal titles situation could have been handled, and QM chose the worst.

Queen Margrethe is not only mother and grandmother, she is also Queen. And because of that Joachim and his first spouse received (and receive) a lavish annual apanage from the taxpayer, could live on their own splendid estate (Shackenborg), holidaying in idyllic Château de Caïx and being appointed in a fancy post at the Danish Embassy in Paris ("coincidentally" Marie's homeland) . All this was only possible because Margrethe is the Queen.

But now Margrethe should suddenly not act as Queen but as "a mother and grandmother". Spare me the hypocrisy...

 

[MsJulie]

Another Royal Family pulled apart. I have several opinions. One I believe Aides are too much involved with the Queen’s decisions. The Queen’s son should have been asked to visit her, discuss situation. The Queen herself should have not only made the decision but told her son, his wife, ex wife and grandchildren. A solution would be to let them keep prince and princess but to take away HRH since not working Royals. The Queen then should not ask for them to carry out duties ever. I can see a very bitter family and maybe their will be no solution. Also, CP Mary should stay quiet. Let the Queen handle this big huge upset. I hate seeing another Family being pulled apart. Now I understand some-of the comments the Queen’s late husband made. A very sad situation.

Edit to add, future great grandchildren of Queen would not be titled for either….unless they would inherit the throne. Play fair, no favorite sons, on great grandchildren of the Queens on both sides…which would be her sons grandchildren.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Well, if the Queen isn't answerable to the Danish citizens then it's no wonder that she may worry for her crown. I would have a hard time seeing my tax money go to support a lavish lifestyle for someone who is beyond approach or questioning.


Seems to me, that's why a lot of other countries got rid of their monarchies full stop. QM should keep that in mind.

You seem not understand the way constitutional monarchies work. The Government is 100% answerable for every royal hiccup. And you know what? The Government heartily agrees with any limitation to the Royal House, otherwise the Queen could not have done this.

Any citizen who wants "answers" can get it when the Prime Minister is questioned and he/she will hear that the Government is in full agreement with Her Majesty The Queen, as it always has been for all 50 years of her Reign.

 

[kimebear]

That is a big deal.

The majority, including myself, is of the opinion that it is necessary to keep the number of titled royals down.
In a country of only 5.8 million we can't have too many royals running around, before it deflates the myth of royals being something special.

And royals have limits to what they can do, who they can work for, who they can associate. If they make a wrong step, it reflects in the DRF as a whole instead of them as individuals.
It is also a major no go to profit from the royal status. The DRF cracks down hard on anyone who does that, including foreign businesses and persons.

As for the taxpayer issue. That was brought up when Joachim became an attache in France. To put it simple: No work for the DRF = No apanage. And by logic extension no title.

- So IMO it is a correct move to strip Joachim's children of their titles.
Nikolai and Felix got their titles before Frederik married Mary, so at the time Nikolai was the future heir.

The way it was executed however has been nothing short of terrible.

And I simply cannot understand why QMII chose to sack Joachim's children, with three months notice.
Something must have happened for her to make that decision. What?

And BTW congratulations on your first posts.

I'm not at all opposed to slimming down the DRF if that is what the Danish citizenry want. It's their monarchy after all, and I definitely approve of keeping standards as far as how members of the DRF portray themselves personally and professionally. My objection to this entire exercise was how poorly it was handled and I also don't understand why some people think that Joachim and his family shouldn't be upset about it.


If we are to believe Joachim's statement, and I have no reason not to, this was meant to be a proposal for the child's 25th birthday, and one that wasn't discussed with him further until he was told (not by his mother or brother) that it was taking effect immediately. In essence, his children were given five days notice that their very names were about to be stripped from them. I wonder how we would feel if one day we were told that our names from birth were no longer ours, and oh by the way, you can't be upset about it.



It was all incredibly callous on the Queen's part.


Thanks for the welcome

 

[Muhler]

Well, if the Queen isn't answerable to the Danish citizens then it's no wonder that she may worry for her crown. I would have a hard time seeing my tax money go to support a lavish lifestyle for someone who is beyond approach or questioning.


Seems to me, that's why a lot of other countries got rid of their monarchies full stop. QM should keep that in mind.

That's not how §12 in the Constitution should be interpreted.

It means that the monarch has immunity. (So have the members of the Parliament and the government.)
It also means the monarchs person in inviolable. Of course it is. In practice that means that if you violate the monarch you get double up on your sentence.

The ministers are responsible for implementing the laws signed by the monarch in order for them to be valid. The ministers are after all there to advise and guide the monarch and make sure everything is correct and legal.

The monarch is of course answerable to God, the Constitution and by extension the people.

If the monarch lets down the people, they can vote in favor of a republic.
And a monarch can be removed if he/she does not abide by the Constitution.
In that case the Parliament, backed by the Supreme Court, will vote in favor of declaring the monarch unfit to rule. And the monarch will then be replaced by the heir.

 

[kimebear]

You seem not I understand the way constitutional monarchies work. The Government is 100% answerable for every royal hiccup. And you know what? The Government heartily agrees with any limitation to the Royal House, otherwise the Queen could not have done this.

Any citizen who wants "answers" can get it when the Prime Minister is questioned and he/she will hear that the Government is in full agreement with Her Majesty The Queen, as it always had been for 50 years.

No. I understand how they work perfectly fine, thank you very much. I also understand that a modern monarchy reigns by public consent, unless you want to find yourself a member of a royal house like in German, Austria, Greece etc. A modern monarch who cares nothing for the opinions and questions of her citizens could very easily find herself with a title that is no longer recognized.

 

[Izzie]

Yes.
He gets his apanage instead of a salary from the army.

Is that because he serves as rigforstander AND still has several patronages in DK?

 

[Muhler]

I'm not at all opposed to slimming down the DRF if that is what the Danish citizenry want. It's their monarchy after all, and I definitely approve of keeping standards as far as how members of the DRF portray themselves personally and professionally. My objection to this entire exercise was how poorly it was handled and I also don't understand why some people think that Joachim and his family shouldn't be upset about it.


If we are to believe Joachim's statement, and I have no reason not to, this was meant to be a proposal for the child's 25th birthday, and one that wasn't discussed with him further until he was told (not by his mother or brother) that it was taking effect immediately. In essence, his children were given five days notice that their very names were about to be stripped from them. I wonder how we would feel if one day we were told that our names from birth were no longer ours, and oh by the way, you can't be upset about it.



It was all incredibly callous on the Queen's part.


Thanks for the welcome

I sure understand why they are upset by the way this was handled.
I do however believe it's counter-productive of them to go public.

It won't restore the titles. It won't help mend things within the DRF.
And in the end they will eventually lose public sympathy.

- If you feel you must, you can in fact express your displeasure and hurt feelings in a more dignified way by not saying you feel hurt and is angry.
Q: How do you feel about your children being stripped of their titles?
- Her Majesty has made a decision and of course we abide by it.
Q: But does it hurt you? Are you sad? Upset?
- A decision has been made. It is of course a major and very sudden change for our children, but that's how it is and now it's time to look forward.

You see what I mean? A more dignified/subdued response, but no one should be the least bit in doubt about what you really mean!

Is that because he serves as rigforstander AND still has several patronages in DK?

Yes, he maintains that he is still an active royal - who right now happens to be working for his country in France.
- Which I happen to agree with. Queen and country called for him to serve in France - for a period. He didn't leave the DRF.

I'm not sure what you would need to constitute a lavish lifestyle. If I had a job that I couldn't be fired from, that allowed me to work in a limited capacity, paid for a full staff to attend me and covered all the expenses of my several homes, I would consider that very lavish indeed.

You would also be on 24/7/365 all your life from the moment you leave the palace.
And so would all your friends and not least anyone of the opposite sex (and nowadays the same sex as well) you happen to associate. Every single mistake you make will end up on the front page. Your children will be public interests.
There are strict limits what you can get away with saying and do.

So while being royals have perks and privileges, it's not that enviable.
And if you screw up, you may end up being an ex-royal.