Members of the Extended Romanov Family, past and present

[JPhinala]

It was said that HM QEII bowed to his heir, Nicholas Romanov, when acknowledging the heir to the throne.

Where did you hear that? I would love to read about that. (If I had to choose a Romanov to be Tsar I would choose Nicholas as well but he has no sons. grrrr.)

 

[ortino]

Where did you hear that? I would love to read about that. (If I had to choose a Romanov to be Tsar I would choose Nicholas as well but he has no sons. grrrr.)

In either "The Romanovs: The Final Chapter" or "The Lost Fortune Of The Tsars"-If I remember correctly-it was the latter

 

[Warren]

It was said that HM QEII bowed to his heir, Nicholas Romanov, when acknowledging the heir to the throne.

Umm... Possible of course, but it seems unlikely - and against all protocol - for any reigning Monarch to bow to a mere pretender, no matter what House the pretender represented.

 

[Russophile]

In either "The Romanovs: The Final Chapter"

Ortino is correct, I read it in Massies: The Romanovs' the Final Chapter. And I have heard from my friend Peter that Massie is very, very thorough with his work.

 

[Al_bina]

I'm not saying that George should be excluded because of weight or height. I'm saying that on top of a shakey claim he does not symbolize what a Tsar should be either physically or (if he's anything like his mother, grandfather, great grandfather) mentally.

I realize all of this sounds very petty but look at the rest of the forums on this site. Most of the focus on pictures and the apperance of Royals in the world. To quote Masha Lipman who is a Deputy Editor of a Moscow news magazine "If you're creating a myth, there should be something catchy about it and the fat boy isn't catchy." Harsh but realistic. Sorry if I've offended anyone here. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to make a point and that is that the Vladimirovichi are not necessarily the best claimants and that they certainly shouldn't be looked to constantly as the way to judge the family and shouldn't be listened to as if Maria is already Tsaritsa and George is Tsarevitch.

PS Grand Duke Nicholas "Nikolasha" was considered an ideal Romanov and many people who supported a restoration supported Nikolasha as the Restoration Tsar. He was tall and barrel chested with a large beard and a stern demeanor. HE was the picture of a Heroic Romanov and he was the kind of man that Russia would need to re-embrace the Romanovs. A man whose very pressence screamed "Russia!"

Although candid in a cruel way, Miss Lipman's opinion may be regarded as correct. Grand Duke Georgy conveys an image of the mother’s boy to me. He tends to lack an aura of greatness and grandeur, which (1)was/is an essential image part of the Russian Imperial family and (2) which would largely contribute to his acceptance as a Tsar by Russians.

 

[Russophile]

I would suggest a stint in the Armed Forces. Would do a "mama's boy" a world of good!

 

[Al_bina]

I feel certain that the Mother will brush such unthinkable suggestions away.

 

[Russophile]

Pity. My one boy is in and coming your way soon, and the other goes in in June. My eldest has changed so much for the better! Very respectable young man that I'm very proud of!

 

[JPhinala]

While I agree that being in the Army builds lots of moral character and was a crucial part of the Romanov image (I once heard the army refered to as the "Playground of the Romanovs") there are two big reasons that George should NOT and will not be in the Army. One, he would not be in the Russian Army which would potentially hurt his already shakey image as "Russian." Two, should he be injured and die, Maria is not in a position to have more children with her husband (being divorced).

 

[JPhinala]

So, what do we know about Nikolai and Rostislav Romanov? The only time I've ever seen them was in pictures from HIM the Dowager Empress Marie Feodorovna's reburial service and the unveiling of a statue to commemorate the occaision. Does anyone know anything about them?

I suppose I should have been more clear. I mean Nikolai Rostislavich and Rostislav Rostislavich.

 

[Russophile]

One of her grand, or great grandsons just died. He took his life, I believe. In New York. Many are not living very grandly. Peter would know more. He keeps in touch with their families.

 

[Jason R Maier esq]

One of her grand, or great grandsons just died. He took his life, I believe. In New York. Many are not living very grandly. Peter would know more. He keeps in touch with their families.

And wasn't that not too long after his father died?

 

[Russophile]

And wasn't that not too long after his father died?

Indeed. He was his father's caregiver. I suspect that colored his thinking and choice. Sad. I heard he was a really nice guy.

 

[Marengo]

I think that would be Theodore Romanov, son of Nikita Romanov who on his turn was a son of Prince Nikita of Russia, Xenia's 3rd son.

 

[plkbvt]

I think that would be Theodore Romanov, son of Nikita Romanov who on his turn was a son of Prince Nikita of Russia, Xenia's 3rd son.

Indeed Theo was Nikita's son, and a sweeter, more sensitive person you will never meet. His death has shattered his mother (Janet), perhaps especially as he was their only child. I liked Nikita a lot, as well as his brother, Alexander, and their nephew, Rostislav (known in the family as "Rusty Romanoff"). Dmitri was very old-school, as the eldest of Xenia's sons, very much in the mix of royalty. But they didn't "live" at Wilderness House with her -- they stayed there a lot, of course, but it was never a question of their "inheriting" the place, as it didn't belong to her -- it was "grace-and-favor." Neither did Xenia stand on ceremony. When, at a wedding in London, Alexander signed his name in the guest-book as "Prince Alexander Romanoff," Xenia crossed it out and wrote instead: "A. Romanoff, Esq." pk

 

[SIDOROFF]

Where did you get that idea on weight? We have nothing of this sort here in Russia.

As for Maria, you put it the most "politically correct" way. She looks Jewish, which she is. It is beyond understanding how an "imperial heir" could have married to the nation that deposed and massacred his family, and destroyed his country.

Being overweight now is a symbol of the west and let's face it, Russians aren't going to bring back the Tsar so that they can be more western and less Russian. George and Maria aren't very Russian in apperance. Maria looks very Mediteranian.

 

[SIDOROFF]

In an interview he himself said that she just stood up. It appears that the rumour has gone beyond that. And, by the way, he is not "the heir to the throne".

Actually, both those men were republicans, and both sought for the position of the head of the republic. Nikolay Romanovitch even told that if he was in power he would have instituted a republic.

He was also quite adept as a leader in the Russian Armed forces, that is if he could get his cousins and siblings to stop all the graft from the supplies that were supposed to go to the fronts. . .
It was said that HM QEII bowed to his heir, Nicholas Romanov, when acknowledging the heir to the throne.

 

[Russophile]

In an interview he himself said that she just stood up. It appears that the rumour has gone beyond that. And, by the way, he is not "the heir to the throne".

Actually, both those men were republicans, and both sought for the position of the head of the republic. Nikolay Nikolayevitch Junior even told that if he was in power he would have instituted a republic.

Well somebody better clue in Bob Massie cuz in his book: The Romanovs The Final Chapter he states on page 274:
"Prince Nicholas Romanov, recognized by everyone in his family except Maria and Leonida as head of the Imperial house. . . "
and page 279
"Traditionally, the queen of England stands up only for other monarchs or heads of state. Not long ago in London, at an exhibition of jewelry by Faberge, Nicholas Romanov approached Elizabeth II to be introduced. Seeing him coming, the queen stood."

 

[SIDOROFF]

Obviously, by Georgiy as well. In fact, by some other "Romanovs" (Holstein-Gottorps) too. But that is not what I meant. It is not up to "everyone in his family" to decide.

Well somebody better clue in Bob Massie cuz in his book: The Romanovs The Final Chapter he states on page 274:
"Prince Nicholas Romanov, recognized by everyone in his family except Maria and Leonida as head of the Imperial house. . . "

 

[Russophile]

Obviously, by Georgiy as well. In fact, by some other "Romanovs" (Holstein-Gottorps) too. But that is not what I meant. It is not up to "everyone in his family" to decide.

Well there's no throne so it's sort of a moot point.

 

[Warren]

Well somebody better clue in Bob Massie cuz in his book: The Romanovs The Final Chapter he states on page 274: Nicholas Romanov approached Elizabeth II to be introduced. Seeing him coming, the queen stood."

[my bolding] If that is the case, why did you state in post #102 and confirm in post #106 that Queen Elizabeth bowed?

It is very easy for incorrect or (deliberately) misleading information to be placed and repeated on the internet and I would hope that those with the knowledge and resources to check facts would do so before making claims in these forums.

. . . . . .

ETA... I would have thought it customary good manners for both parties to be standing when a formal introduction is made, not a special dispensation.

 

[SIDOROFF]

Elizabeth II probably even stood up to promote Nikolay Romanovitch contrary to Mariya Vladimirovna, as Mariya was the protegee of Spain, with whom the United Kingdom had disgusting relations throughout history, and with whom it has a dispute on Gibraltar.

 

[Russophile]

[my bolding] If that is the case, why did you state in post #102 and confirm in post #106 that Queen Elizabeth bowed?

It is very easy for incorrect or (deliberately) misleading information to be placed and repeated on the internet and I would hope that those with the knowledge and resources to check facts would do so before making claims in these forums.

. . . . . .

ETA... I would have thought it customary good manners for both parties to be standing when a formal introduction is made, not a special dispensation.

Warren, this would be a good time to enlighten all of us between the differences between "bowing" and "standing". Thanks!

 

[Warren]

I would have thought the difference between "standing" and "bowing" was self-evident, and I would think it equally obvious that Queen Elizabeth would formally greet people while standing on two feet rather than remaining seated.

Nonetheless, ignoring this diversion into definitions, the claim that EIIR "bowed" to Prince Nicholas is manifestly incorrect as the quoted source states that she stood. I am disappointed that you twice chose to misquote the source, thereby giving a false impression.

Since none of us know what Queen Elizabeth was thinking at the time I think it important that any description of the meeting is quoted correctly.

 

[Russophile]

Because, Warren, I was having a senior moment. I have read and re-read those books several times, YEARS ago. I happened to have that book on hand and re-read it. Standing and bowing seems the same to this Yankee. Since it was an mistake, I apologize. Don't forget, you're dealing with an American who's not familiar with royal protocol. This wasn't meant to be cheeky. This was meant to be a learning experience.

 

[Warren]

You've got way too much spark and good humour to fall into the "seniors" category!

 

[Russophile]

Really? They keep telling me 42 is the new 32 but I have reservations about that. . .

 

[JPhinala]

Where did you get that idea on weight? We have nothing of this sort here in Russia.

As for Maria, you put it the most "politically correct" way. She looks Jewish, which she is. It is beyond understanding how an "imperial heir" could have married to the nation that deposed and massacred his family, and destroyed his country.

I would just like to clarify that I was, in no way, trying to insinuate that Maria Vladimirovna "looked Jewish" or that it was a bad thing. I have many faults but antisemitism isn't one of them. I also don't agree with your assertion that the Jewish "nation" "deposed and massacred his family and destroyed his country." That seems like an urban legend of the ugliest kind.

 

[AGRBear]

Here's another Yankee asking a question about who bows to whom.

Who ranked first, second and third on the royal ladder in 1916 among these three: King of England, Emperor of Germany, and Emperor of Russia?

AGRBear

 

[Warren]

Depends on which ladder you mean. All three were Emperors (of India, for George V), but since all were Heads of State they would rank 'equal'. The pecking order within this 'equality' would be based on the date of accession to the throne (ie reigning seniority), so we have:

Wilhelm II - 1888
Nicholas II - 1894
George V - 1910