Members of the Extended Romanov Family, past and present

[linda85]

The Nobility Association has a ball every year to raise funds for Russia I believe. This is where a lot of the nobility gather and it is in New York every year is I rightly recall.

 

[BeatrixFan]

That's true Linda - they call it the Ghost's Ball.

 

[Mapple]

...

I tried a google search on the name Ferand and Ikonikov but came out empty handed. Do you (or anyone) have any web link on the aristocrats that did not make it out of the Soviet Union?

They are Ferrand and Ikonnikov. Never read them, though.

Arguably the most prominent noble families are featured in the website of Miroslav Marek, http://www.genealogy.euweb.cz/russia/russia.html

 

[Alison20]

In reigning royal houses, the succession rules change to fit in with modern ideas and laws. I see no reason why the head of non-reigning royal houses should not be able to 'update' the succession in the same way.

Of course, the problem is always with those members of the royal houses who would lose out if the succession was brought in line with modern practices.

It seems sensible to me that Grand Duke Vladimir reinstated the right of women to succeed to the Russian throne. If Russia were to become a monarchy, they would not be clinging to archaic rules but would embrace change.

Look at the Spanish Royal Family - both Infantas married non-royal men, and Felipe married a commoner too. There was no great fuss and as far as I am aware no change in to law to allow it to happen. It just happened - the King did not object. Other countries such as Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium have changed as well - although I think laws were passed in their cases.

There really can be no genuine objection to Grand Duchess Maria and her son being considered the rightful heirs to the Romanov throne, in my opinion

 

[Toledo]

thanks for the link Mapple. I also found more matches with the correct spelling of Ferrand and Ikonnikov but most sites just list them as a refference rather than showing their work.

Vechiolarry, sometimes we have to do the conversion ourselves. I got a very good gadget to transfer video to DVD on the fly, so I've been converting some of those old tapes (I never let go off) into my personal DVD collection. The Leopard took ages to come out on DVD and by them most of the actors that played the characters were dead. But this Criterion version was able to get Claudia Cardinale interviewed for the comentaries and once you listen to her the whole movie takes an even more personal approach. I also liked that the movie commentary was done by a history professor.

 

[Warren]

about herding cats...

Could we keep to one line of discussion please, preferably "Young Russian Royalty".
This is not the place to be chatting about favourite films, movie starlets, videos and DVDs etc.
And a gentle reminder that the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna has her own thread.

thanks
Warren
Royal Forums moderator

 

[RubyPrincess168]

Although my own fantasy choice would be Prince Michael of Kent. He does look like a Czarist to the last strand of hair on his beard! And Princess Michael as Czarina? I'm sure she and her sharp tongue will behave in Russia better than in England. And she is quite stricking and beautiful lady, one of the few Royals that looks the part well.

They would be my choice too! Circumvent the whole debate about who is the rightful heir and pick a neutral third party. It would be like how Greece chose the younger son of the King of Denmark to be their King. Lady Gabriella would make a fabulous Grand Duchess!

 

[Next Star]

I remember watching that show he is Prince Alexandre and he lives in New York. He is a model who is also an inspiring writer.

Hey, does anyone know who the prince of Russian Royalty was on "Young, Sexy & Royal"?

​

 

[JPhinala]

I remember watching that show he is Prince Alexandre and he lives in New York. He is a model who is also an inspiring writer.

Does anyone know anything about him other than that? Have any pictures? Links? Thanks!

 

[jacksoncorners]

Can anyone tell me about Olga Iosifovna Rogovskaya?

Alexander Nikolaievitch Prince Iskander (1889-1957) married May 5 1912 Olga Iosifovna Rogovskaya (1893-1962). Alexander and Olga were later divorced,
their two children were:
Kyrill Aleksandrovitch Prince Iskander (1914-1992)
Natalya Androssov Iskander Romanov (1917-1999)

 

[morhange]

Princess Catherine

According to Paul Theroff's Online Gotha, Princess Catherine of Russia died on March 13, 2007 in Montevideo, Uruguay.

Catherine, born on July 25, 1915 was the second child and only daughter of Prince Ioann (Ivan) Konstantinovich of Russia and Princess Helen of Serbia. Her older brother, Vsevelod, died in 1973.

Catherine married, in 1937, Ruggero, Marchese Farace di Villaforesta (1909-1970) They had three children, Nicoletta (widowed with two children, Eduardo [(married with a son, Federico] and Alexandra [married with a son, Santiago]) Fiametta (married, with two children from her first marriage Victor [married with a son, Matias] and Sebastian [married], and a son from a second marriage, Alessandro) and Marchese Giovanni (married with two children, Alessandro and Yann).

Catherine was the last member of the Imperial Family to be born before the Russian Revolution and the fall of the dynasty, and was the last surviving uncontested dynast of the Imperial House of Russia.

 

[HRH Kimetha]

They would be my choice too! Circumvent the whole debate about who is the rightful heir and pick a neutral third party. It would be like how Greece chose the younger son of the King of Denmark to be their King. Lady Gabriella would make a fabulous Grand Duchess!

I'd like to second that. He definitly looks like like a Russian Czar. He reminds me so much as Tsar Nicholas II, yet only Nicholas' wife is related to the BRF through Princess Alice. Interesting.

 

[Benjamin]

And here is a picture of the last imperial princess of the blood, Ekaterina Ioannovna († 13 Mar 2007 in Uruguay). With her death the Imperial House of Russia consists of only three persons: GDss Maria, Dowager GDss Leonida (who is said to be in poor health), & GD Georgiy.

 

[ortino]

Sad Romanov news: death of Prince Theodore

-any outlets pick it up?
ABC News: Czars' Heirs in Rent-Controlled Apartment

 

[Russophile]

Oh, my God, he was so young ...
Sit illi terra levis (let the ground be weightless for him)...

His father was very ill. My guess is that he got depressed from nursing and not having a role to fulfill after his father's death took his life. I don't know if we will know the truth. . .

 

[Russophile]

The Romanovs were hardly ever practical. With all their wealth you'd think they would have socked some away out of Russia. Or at least have a trusted servant run through the mansion one last time cutting out the Rembrant's and Renoirs to take with. . . .

 

[JPhinala]

The Romanovs were hardly ever practical. With all their wealth you'd think they would have socked some away out of Russia. Or at least have a trusted servant run through the mansion one last time cutting out the Rembrant's and Renoirs to take with. . . .

Interestingly enough, one of my favorite stories about Prince Felix Yousoppov (not really a Romanov but married to one) is that he cut his two favorite Rembrandt's (The Man in the Large Hat and The Woman with the Fan) out of their frames, rolled them up and took them with him aboard HMS Marlborough. They're now at the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC.

 

[Russophile]

Interestingly enough, one of my favorite stories about Prince Felix Yousoppov (not really a Romanov but married to one) is that he cut his two favorite Rembrandt's (The Man in the Large Hat and The Woman with the Fan) out of their frames, rolled them up and took them with him aboard HMS Marlborough. They're now at the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC.

That was exactly what I was referencing.

 

[branchg]

With the exception of Grand Duke Nicholas, all of the surviving Grand Dukes and Princes of the Blood Imperial signed a manifesto acknowledging Cyril as the new de-jure Tsar. There is certainly no question both he and his son, Vladimir were rightfully the Head of the Imperial House.

Maria's position has been questioned because her mother, Leonida Bagration, was not of a sovereign, reigning house as required under the Pauline Law for an equal marriage. However, since Grand Duke Vladimir had already ruled the Bagrations were entitled to be considered Prince/Princess of Georgia with the style of Royal Highness, it was moot.

 

[JPhinala]

What is this manifesto? I've never heard it mentioned before. I don't dispute Kyrill and Vladimir as the rightful Heads of the Imperial Family in their turn. What I dispute is this business about them being Tsar. Even if every single Romanov recognized Kyrill as Tsar, it would make no difference. They do not have the power to choose the Tsar. While Kyrill would most likely (almost certainly) have been Tsar in a restoration he never was. He was simply Head of the Imperial House.

As for my problem with Maria, it is not her parentage I question. Every single living Romanov is either a product of a morganatic marriage or is in one. My issue with her is that she is a WOMAN. I am an ardent feminist but there is no precident for allowing a woman to be Tsar after Tsar Paul changed House Law. There is, however, a precident for ignoring morganatic marriages. Nicholas named Michael, who was morganatically married, Tsar when he abdicated. This is a de facto change in House Law.

As for the idea that Vladimir could change House Law, it is utterly rediculous. Only the Tsar can change House Law and usually it is done only with the support of most of the family (the notable exception being the forfeiture of a good deal of Imperial Land to the serfs against the urgings of his Uncles). Vladimir had no right to change House Law. He just wanted it to stay in his line. An understandable concern but not something which should define the fate of a dynasty.

 

[Russophile]

Did Nicholas name him Tsar (Michael) or did he just make him regent until Alexi would reign? Does anybody know for sure?

 

[JPhinala]

Yes. Nicholas origionally named Aleksi Tsar but then he was persuaded that it would be a death sentance for Aleksi so he named Michael Tsar. I believe the quote from the abdication decree reads "We abdicated for Ourselves and for Our Son Aleksi Nicholaievitch in favor of Our Brother Michael Aleksandrovitch."

 

[branchg]

The fount of honour rights of formerly reigning families have always passed in law and precedent, de-jure, to the Heads of the Royal Houses, including the right to interpret and modify any house laws.

The issue of the right of succession passing to a woman, rather than a man, is allowed under the Pauline Law. Given the morganatic status of the senior lines with current male candidates, the succession passed to Maria with the deaths of Prince Vassily and Grand Duke Vladimir. Upon her death, it passes to her son, George.

 

[JPhinala]

I firmly disagree with the right of the Head of Family of a deposed Monarchy to be the fount of honour. And it certainly has not "always passed in law in precedent." There are no laws about who has the right to confer titles in any deposed monarchy because there are no titles (except in Germany and France and those are not created but passed). No former Monarch should have or has the right to confer titles. Especially not if their goal in doing so is to litigitimize their own shakey claims. While the House of Savoy seems to think it can and Kyrill tried these titles are usually laughed at and ignored by serious historians and by most Monarchists. They are ocaisionally used out of politeness (for instance Monaco recognizes Ernst August Prinz von Hannover as HRH Prince Ernst August of Hanover.)

The argument that under Pauline Law Maria can succeed is a little more valid BUT there is still the question of what would be the best for Russia and a haughty woman who issues decrees and is the daughter of a huaghty man who issued titles with a, lets face it, fat son is not my idea of what would be best for Russia.

 

[Warren]

...the daughter of a huaghty man who issued titles with a, lets face it, fat son is not my idea of what would be best for Russia.

"... fat son" - that's very 'weightist' (among other things), and certainly a novel reason to disqualify a person from dynastic succession.
Next thing we'll have prettiness tests to determine who's a dynast and who's not. No fatties and certainly no uglies. What else is on the list?

 

[JPhinala]

Let's face it, people do not want a monarch who is not a symbol of their power. Part of the Romanov image was tall, muscular men who could display the strength of Russia. I'm similar in size to George but I would not be a good restoration monarch. The way they look and the way they act makes up part of the image of the monarchy. I'm sorry if this seems offensive but it's realistic.

 

[Russophile]

I seem to remember Catherine I and her daughter Elizabeth as being over weight and not that skinny winny that Vanessa Redgrave portrayed. . . .

And what about the Hawaiian Monarchs? The Bigger the Better was their mantra! And they were all beautiful!

(BTW, I'm a size 6)

 

[COUNTESS]

Nicholas II was a mere 5'6" tall. Hardly Tsar material, if height was a criteria.

 

[JPhinala]

Yes. And Nicholas was considered a physically disapointing Tsar. Both to the family and to Russian Society. As for Cathrine and Elizabeth they were large in a time when being overweight was not so frowned upon. Now if you gain ten pounds and you're a celebrity it's a three week news story. I'm not saying that George should be excluded because of weight or height. I'm saying that on top of a shakey claim he does not symbolize what a Tsar should be either physically or (if he's anything like his mother, grandfather, great grandfather) mentally.

As for the Hawaiian comparison weight was viewed very differently in Hawaii than it is in Russia. Being overweight now is a symbol of the west and let's face it, Russians aren't going to bring back the Tsar so that they can be more western and less Russian. George and Maria aren't very Russian in apperance. Maria looks very Mediteranian.

I realize all of this sounds very petty but look at the rest of the forums on this site. Most of the focus on pictures and the apperance of Royals in the world. To quote Masha Lipman who is a Deputy Editor of a Moscow news magazine "If you're creating a myth, there should be something catchy about it and the fat boy isn't catchy." Harsh but realistic. Sorry if I've offended anyone here. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to make a point and that is that the Vladimirovichi are not necessarily the best claimants and that they certainly shouldn't be looked to constantly as the way to judge the family and shouldn't be listened to as if Maria is already Tsaritsa and George is Tsarevitch.

PS A little something I forgot on the topic of height. Grand Duke Nicholas "Nikolasha" was considered an ideal Romanov and many people who supported a restoration supported Nikolasha as the Restoration Tsar. He was tall and barrel chested with a large beard and a stern demeanor. HE was the picture of a Heroic Romanov and he was the kind of man that Russia would need to re-embrace the Romanovs. A man whose very pressence screamed "Russia!"

 

[Russophile]

PS A little something I forgot on the topic of height. Grand Duke Nicholas "Nikolasha" was considered an ideal Romanov and many people who supported a restoration supported Nikolasha as the Restoration Tsar. He was tall and barrel chested with a large beard and a stern demeanor. HE was the picture of a Heroic Romanov and he was the kind of man that Russia would need to re-embrace the Romanovs. A man whose very pressence screamed "Russia!"

He was also quite adept as a leader in the Russian Armed forces, that is if he could get his cousins and siblings to stop all the graft from the supplies that were supposed to go to the fronts. . .
It was said that HM QEII bowed to his heir, Nicholas Romanov, when acknowledging the heir to the throne.