Luis Alfonso de Borbón and Family, ('Duke and Duchess of Anjou') 2: 2008-2022


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Theoretically she could be called Queen Mother as the widow of a de iure King of France.
 
Cory said:
Theoretically she could be called Queen Mother as the widow of a de iure King of France.
Click to expand...

Usually a reine-douairière is the widow of a King. Is she also the mother of a King then possibly she is also styled reine-mère. Carmen however was no widow from the self-proclaimed "King of France" since she divorced him and the marriage was also annulled by the Church. This means that her marriage "did not exist". Since she was never married to a King, she can never be styled Queen. It is as simple as that.

Carmen married a first time.
Carmen divorced a first time.
Carmen remarried a second time.
Carmen divorced a second time.
Carmen remarried a third time.
Carmen divorced a third time.

:ermm:
 
Well, at times it happens that some of the most ardent legitimists - and also Luis Alfonso himself - tend to forget that some divorces and remarriages happened.
I.e. when Luis Alfonso's grandmother Emanuela de Dampierre died, two years ago, Luis Alfonso and his supporters mourned the "widow of Mgr. Jacques de Bourbon, Duke of Anjou and Segovia", totally ignoring that Jaime and Emanuela were divorced and both subsequently remarried.
 
Duc et Pair, I agree with you , some fanatics of N & R. are talking about King Louis XX.
In any way Carmen may be called Queen or Queen Mother.
MAfan is right too concerning Emanuela de Dampierre who married a second time.
 
Cory,

The Spanish Duke Louis of Anjou is NOT a Royal Highness.
The French Duke of Anjou (Son of Prince Michel Comte d' Evreux ) is I think a Royal Highness
 
The son of the Duke of Cadiz is not a member of the Spanish Royal House but the Head of the Royal House of Bourbon.

Sent from my GT-S6312 using The Royals Community mobile app

The House of Orleans has no tradition of gaving the title of Duke of Anjou,title that belongs to the main branch of the Bourbon House.

Sent from my GT-S6312 using The Royals Community mobile app
 
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For Spanish Law he is Don Luis Alfonso Gonzalo Víctor Manuel Marco de Borbón y Martínez-Bordiú. That is his name. No more, no less. Luis Alfonso has no any title at the moment. In due time he will become (the 3rd) Duque de Franco, Grande de España.

Luis Alfonso is also not head of "the Royal House of Bourbon". There is no such Royal House. Luis Alfonso is the most senior male and therefore head of the Bourbon dynasty. That is something completely different.

:flowers:
 
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Duc_et_ Pair,
Are the Count Michel d'Evreux 's Sons : Charles Philippe , Duc D'anjou and François, Duke of Nothing Royal Highnesses?
 
We are not interested in Spanish Law when we speak about the Head of the Royal House of France. HRH Prince Louis of Bourbon is Head of the French Royal House of Bourbon and all the titles he has are linked with France not with Spain.
 
Cory ? i Don' t know if you understand French but they spoke about le Duc d'Anjou.
no Altesse Royale and certainly not Sa Majesté Louis XX.
 
Cory said:
We are not interested in Spanish Law when we speak about the Head of the Royal House of France. HRH Prince Louis of Bourbon is Head of the French Royal House of Bourbon and all the titles he has are linked with France not with Spain.
Click to expand...

Don Luis Alfonso is a Spanish citizen, born in the Spanish capital Madrid, with a Spanish father, with a Spanish mother, with the Spanish nationality and with a Spanish passport. I know he applied for the French nationality as well, as grandson to a French lady. His future fully legal and recognized titles will be Duque de Franco and Grande de España. Any other style is purely by pretension. At best one can argue that, as son of the late Duque de Cádiz, Luis Alfonso is the present Duque of Cádiz. A Spanish title. But even this title is not recognized in Spain at all.

Note that Don Luis Alfonso, a Spaniard of the highest aristocracy and a future Grande, is effectively a persona non grata at the Spanish Court because of his claims on the throne of France and his usage of French titles of pretension (Duc de Bourbon, Duc d'Anjou, Duc de Touraine).
 
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HRH Prince Louis of Bourbon, Duke of Anjou, has also French citizenship and his father and grandfather were Heads of the French Royal House of Bourbon before him. The fact that King Juan Carlos does not recognize the Duke of Anjou as Head of the French Royal House of Bourbon has no consequence in France whatsoever.
 
The "French Royal House of Bourbon" does not exist. There is a Bourbon dynasty (or the Capetian dynasty) which has dynasts in two reigning Royal Houses (Spain and Luxembourg) and more dynasts in non-reigning Royal Houses (France, Parma, Two Sicilies, etc.).

Luis Alfonso de Borbón is without any dispute the most senior male of the Bourbon dynasty (or Capetian dynasty) and represents one of the grandest Houses ever in history. He embodies the immense patrimonium of this most royal, most illustrious and most amazing House. He also embodies a very recent history of Spain in himself (the Borbóns and Franco). He is truly a man with a dazzling pedigree.

But that is it. He can never have any claim to the throne of France because of the act of partage by the Treaty of Utrecht. Food for thought: anyone saying that this Treaty was illegal, null and void, at the same time effectively says that all the Spanish Bourbon Kings, the very own ancestors of Luis Alfonso, were illegal, null and void as well....

:flowers:
 
The Treaty of Utrecht does not affect Louis XX because he is not a member of the Spanish Royal Family because of his grandfather's decisions.
 
The Orleans branch tried to stop HRH Prince Louis to use his rightful titles but the descendants of Philippe Egalite failed in their attempt:

Communiqu?
 
On 24th June 2000 the Head of the Royal House of France was received as a Bailiff Grand Cross of Honor and Devotion in gremio religionis of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta as “Son Altesse Royale Prince Louis-Alphonse de Bourbon, Duc d’Anjou,” at the annual investiture of the French Association of the Order, held in the Royal Chapel of the Palace of Versailles.
 
Louis Alphonse' grandfather's decisions have nothing to do with the Treaty of Utrecht. The Treaty was signed almost 200 years before Infante Jamie's birth and didn't have any stipulations that allowed for descendants of Philip V to claim the French throne if they renounced their rights to the Spanish one. According to the treaty no one can claim the French throne through the line of Philip V of Spain.

Louis Alphonso's claim is based on the idea that the renouncement made under this Treaty is invalid - based on the grounds that no one, including the King, can alter the line of succession. It would be somewhat ironic if France restored a constitutional monarch then chose as its monarch (after all, there is no shortage of French pretenders) someone whose entire claim to the throne is based on the idea that you can't legislate or alter the succession.
 
There is another thread about the Succession to the Throne of France. Here we speak about the news regarding HRH Prince Louis of Bourbon.
 
Cory said:
There is another thread about the Succession to the Throne of France. Here we speak about the news regarding HRH Prince Louis of Bourbon.
Click to expand...


I'm aware of that. I was merely responding to a comment that you made on this thread about a half an hour ago.

If the mods feel that this discussion should be moved to the other thread then I have no objection.
 
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