King George IV (1762-1830)


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CyrilVladisla said:
In 1805 King George III made Caroline Ranger of Greenwich Park allowing her greater independence and financial security. Did George, Prince of Wales ask his father to do this?
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I have no idea, but Im sure the information wuodl be in some bios of George IV or Caroline. And I doubt it since George IV was hiostile to ihis wife, the rest of the RF didn't like her and it was mainly George III who showed her some kindness.
 
Denville said:
I have no idea, but Im sure the information wuodl be in some bios of George IV or Caroline. And I doubt it since George IV was hiostile to ihis wife, the rest of the RF didn't like her and it was mainly George III who showed her some kindness.
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George III is known as a kind pater familias, who, while autocratic, took good care of his family. IIRC that's why Caroline became the wife of The Prince of Wales - she was the daughter of his sister Augusta who had married another cousin of the Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel-line, so Caroline was a "double" Welf-princess.

George III. saw to it, that his widow would be independent from their eldest son, then George IV. and saved his youngest sister Caroline-Mathilde from the Danish revolt under Dowager Queen Juliane (another Brunswick-princess) over the Struensee-affair and made the Danish give back Caroline-Mathilde's dowry, so she could spent that money while she lived in her brother's palace at Celle. While she died young, she had invested quite solid sums into the enlargement, modernisation and gardens of Celle Palace, in exactly the way she wanted.

So it is very plausible that George III. took care of his niece/daughter-in-law Caroline as well.

Plus he was a fair man - when Caroline, like Caroline-Mathilde in Denmark, was accused of adultery, he stood by both of them and rehabilitated Caroline completely. While Caroline-Mathilde had an affair with Dr.Struensee, Caroline was in fact proven innocent, but I'm sure the king would have found a solution if the situation would have been different.
 
I don't recollect that Caroline was provid innocent of adultery, but of being the mother of a child..
I seem to remember that George III knew that Caro had affairs, and felt that he could have forgiven one attachment since she was neglected but it was much more than that...
 
Denville said:
I don't recollect that Caroline was provid innocent of adultery, but of being the mother of a child..
I seem to remember that George III knew that Caro had affairs, and felt that he could have forgiven one attachment since she was neglected but it was much more than that...
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There were rumours about that, so in 1806 George III. ordered a secret investigation with the result that the rumours "had no foundation". Later her husband tried to divorce her on the grounds of her infidelities but again there was no real proof other than rumours, so the process was stopped. As she died shortly after George IV. was crowned king, it didn't matter later anyway. But there never was real proof of her infidelity, while it was clear that the second child of Caroline-Mathilde was fathered by Johann Struensee. And if Struensee had in reality looked like Mads Mikkelsen in the Danish movie "A Royal Affair", everyone would have understood her. IMHO, of course. :D
 
Denville said:
I don't recollect that Caroline was provid innocent of adultery, but of being the mother of a child..
I seem to remember that George III knew that Caro had affairs, and felt that he could have forgiven one attachment since she was neglected but it was much more than that...
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Caroline herself said once that she only ever committed adultery with "the husband of Mrs Fitzherbert.":D
 
Kataryn said:
Ther But there never was real proof of her infidelity, while it was clear that the second child of Caroline-Mathilde was fathered by Johann Struensee. And if Struensee had in reality looked like Mads Mikkelsen in the Danish movie "A Royal Affair", everyone would have understood her. IMHO, of course. :D
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just because she didn't have children, was not proof that she didn't have affairs. However I think the RF would have problably not wanted to expose her unless it was so utterly blatant (ie proof like her having a baby when it was well known that she and George were estranged)..
George would have liked to divorce her later on, to get rid of her and possibly remarry.. but the proof was all very vague, since she had been living abroad.. and it was mostly "servants gossip and rumours"...
 
George IV set a date for his coronation, July 19, 1821. He had Caroline's name removed from the prayers to be prayed at the coronation ceremony. Caroline pestered him to have her name put back and to tell her what coronation robes she should wear.
 
Today in Royal History is the 257th birthday of George IV eldest son of George III of the United Kingdom and Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. He died on 26 June 1830 (aged 67)
 
King George IV (1762-1830) married first to Mary Anne (of the Baronets) Smythe (1756-1837). According to different sources that marriage took place either on December 15 or December 21 in the year 1785. Which date is the correct one?
This marriage ended on June 23, 1794. Does anyone know where/in what city that dissolvement took place?
 
Ralf said:
King George IV (1762-1830) married first to Mary Anne (of the Baronets) Smythe (1756-1837). According to different sources that marriage took place either on December 15 or December 21 in the year 1785. Which date is the correct one?
This marriage ended on June 23, 1794. Does anyone know where/in what city that dissolvement took place?
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Mary Anne Smythe was by 1785 the widowed Mrs Maria Fitzherbert. She had been married twice and both husbands had died prematurely.

I've taken another look at my biography of King George IV when Prince of Wales, The Prince of Pleasure: The Prince of Wales and The Making of The Regency by Saul David.

It has footnotes and according to David the marriage between Mrs Fitzherbert and the Prince of Wales took place in the locked drawing room of her house in Park Street Mayfair, in front of several witnesses, in the early evening of 15th December 1785.

The marriage was of course invalid. Mrs Fitzherbert was a devout Roman Catholic and in any case the wedding was in contravention of the Royal Marriages Act.

By 1794 the marriage was on its last legs. The couple were virtually separated and the Prince had several mistresses including Lady Jersey. He was also deeply in debt. Parliament would only discharge these debts when a suitable marriage to a Protestant Princess was contracted.

George realised what he must do, and on June 23rd 1794, he wrote to his wife telling her that he intended to end their relationship and meet no more. Because the marriage was null and void under English law, it was never formally dissolved.

The Prince wrote a long explanation to his wife a few days later (a letter which no longer exists) and later made financial arrangements for her comfort. However, it is clear that he regarded himself as free to marry, which he did, to Caroline of Brunswick-Wolfenbuttel in April 1795. Maria died in March 1837.
 
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Curryong said:
Mary Anne Smythe was by 1785 the widowed Mrs Maria Fitzherbert. She had been married twice and both husbands had died prematurely.

The marriage was of course invalid. Mrs Fitzherbert was a devout Roman Catholic and in any case the wedding was in contravention of the Royal Marriages Act.



George realised what he must do, and on June 23rd 1794, he wrote to his wife telling her that he intended to end their relationship and meet no more. Because the marriage was null and void under English law, it was never formally dissolved.

The Prince wrote a long explanation to his wife a few days later (a letter which no longer exists) and later made financial arrangements for her comfort. However, it is clear that he regarded himself as free to marry, which he did, to Caroline of Brunswick-Wolfenbuttel in April 1795. Maria died in March 1837.
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Many years later, his "legal" wife Caroline of Brunswick quipped that she had only committed adultery once - "with the husband of Mrs. Fitzherbert."
 
After George IV became king, the government tried to get a divorce for the King by act of Parliament. For George IV to divorce his wife Caroline of Brunswick, was it necessary to have Parliament involved?
 
At one time, no-one in Britain was able to get a divorce without an Act of Parliament. It sounds really weird now, but that was the law. So only very wealthy and influential people were able even to try to get divorced - Parliament wasn't likely to debate the marital problems of John and Jane Smith. But it wasn't just the king, it was everyone.
 
Divorce was meant to be difficult.. and was only rarely permitted.
 
Caroline's tenure as queen consort was short,her husband became King in January 1820 and Caroline died in August 1821 .

During that period the king went to great lengths to deny her rights as queen,when she paid a visit to Rome even the Pope refused to meet the ' duchess of Brunswick'.
 
An Ard Ri said:
Caroline's tenure as queen consort was short,her husband became King in January 1820 and Caroline died in August 1821 .

During that period the king went to great lengths to deny her rights as queen,when she paid a visit to Rome even the Pope refused to meet the ' duchess of Brunswick'.
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I dont think anyone wanted to meet Caroline. Bad as George IV was she was pretty terrible..
 
From what I've read Queen Caroline was actually popular perhaps the she had the publics sympathies having lost her only surviving child Princess Charlotte of Wales.
 
She was popular with the working classes because George and his brothers were hated as fat extravagant undignified idiots... so to get at George IV when he became King, the radicals supported her and so did working people.... but It was a case of her being liked by people who didn't know her. People who did know her, were not fans.
 
There is I think a street in Hammersmith called after her....
 
That made me chuckle. An entire street. In Hammersmith of all places.:lol:

No offence meant to the fine borough of Hammersmith obviously.;)
 
Denville said:
There is I think a street in Hammersmith called after her....
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The queen died at Brandenburg House in Hammersmith so its not really a surprise that there's a street named after her.
 
Durham said:
Despite everything she was still The Queen so I wonder why she wasn't buried in England.
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Caroline requested that she be buried in her native Brunswick.
 
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