HRH Duke Carlos Hugo (1930-2010) and the Royal House of Bourbon-Parma

[Marengo]

Well, I think in their days the French king had a personal lifestyle that was equally or more shocking than that of Jeff Koons. With various mistresses, extra marital children and whatnot.

 

[Tosca]

I wasn't referring to Jeff's life style, but to his artwork.

 

[amedea]

Are CH's children the only possible continuators of the dinasty? or there are some other? for instance, are michel's children dinastic?

 

[Warren]

Prince Michel's two sons, Prince Erik and Prince Charles-Emmanuel, married dynastically and thus their sons are dynastic.

Prince Eric married Lydia, daughter of Knud, Lensgrave (Count) of Holstein-Ledreborg and Princess Marie Gabrielle of Luxembourg
> Prince Michel (1989-)
> Prince Henri (1991- )
> three daughters

Prince Charles-Emmanuel married Constance, daughter of Baron Yves de Ravinel and Countess Alexe de Castellane
> Prince Amaury (1991- )
> three daughters

Princes Andre, Remy and Jean also have sons, although there is some question over the current generation's dynastic eligibility.

 

[amedea]

Thank you very much Warren.
So Parma family consider surely dynastic marriages with aristocrats also if not royal, isn't it? and the "questions" you mentioned are about the facts that tose cases are cases of marriage with a non-noble?

 

[Warren]

I don't know how the extended Bourbon-Parma family works in regard to marriages. By contrast, we know that Archduke Karl (and previously Archduke Otto) make determinations about the dynastic status of Habsburg marriages. With the sons of Princes Andre, Remy and Jean I've seen conflicting statements about their dynastic eligibility.

 

[Marengo]

On the french wikipedia site prince Sixtus is listed as 'Duke of Aranjuez', does anybody know when he started uing the title. Did his father give it to him, or is it an invention by himself?

Sixte Henri de Bourbon-Parme - Wikipédia

 

[MAfan]

In 1965 he enlistes in the Foreign Legion as Enrique Aranjuez; it makes me think about a connection with the title of Duke of Aranjuez he uses; but I don't know it.

 

[Marengo]

The english wikipedia says that he became duke of San Jaime in 1957, while Carlos Hugo became prince of Asturias. In 1964 prince Carlos Hugo also received the title duke of Madrid, according to the article.

Carlos Hugo, Duke of Parma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I suppose Carlos Hugo dropped all Spanish titles in 1979, when he abandoned the Carlist claims.

Edit: Carlos-Hugo did not give up the Spanish titles, he names his son Carlos 'Duke of Madrid' on 28 September 2003.

 

[MAfan]

I know this family is divided since a lot of years, but what I have never understood is: how is it divided exactly?
On a side I know are/were: Duke Carlos Hugo, his three unmarried sisters Cecile, Marie Therese and Marie des Neiges, and before he died their father Duke Xavier;
On the other side, I know are/were: Prince Sixte Henri and his mother Duchess Madeleine.
Do you know anything about the other members of the Family?

 

[maria-olivia]

You forgot Françoise the only married Princess. Huge wedding at Notre Dame de Paris. She married a Prince of Lobkovich ( wrong written ?) I don't know if it was an equal wedding. They had 4 children , 2 or their sons died and their daughter is a nun.
I remember pictures of the baptism of Carlos the Irene's first born child in France at the Lignières castle.
Queen Juliana wore no hat at all the ladies were wearing a black lace veil.
I don't know if Juliana was Carlos's godmother because she was protestant. On on the picture she had Carlos in her arms . It took 5 years to Irène and Carlos to have their first child.

 

[MAfan]

yes, of course, Françoise, who supports her youngest brother Sixte...

I know that Prince Bernhard was the godparent of Prince Jaime, but he was protestant too...

 

[Alberto2244]

It took 5 years to Irène and Carlos to have their first child.

six, and she had a false pregnancy first, what was very embarrassing

 

[MAfan]

what do you mean with "false pregnancy"? Maybe a miscarriage?

 

[maria-olivia]

At each event of the Dutch Royal Family , Carlos Hugo is there altough Irene and him are divorced.
Prince Carlos Hugo did not assist his daughter Margareta's first sad wedding, only Irène was there and M. 's brothers and sister

 

[Alberto2244]

what do you mean with "false pregnancy"? Maybe a miscarriage?

she said to everybody that she was pregnant but she was not, according to what I remenber.
I don´t think it was a miscarriage

 

[Alberto2244]

This article of last 11th May says Don Carlos Hugo was seen at a hotel in Madrid talking friendly with the historical leader of the spanish communist party, Santiago Carrillo.
They say wrongly Carlos Hugo was married to the daughter of the KIng of Denmark

Diariocrítico - Exclusivo Cumbre nostálgica

 

[MAfan]

I wonder what could have been her purpose in announcing a pregnancy that was not...

 

[amedea]

I know this family is divided since a lot of years, but what I have never understood is: how is it divided exactly?
On a side I know are/were: Duke Carlos Hugo, his three unmarried sisters Cecile, Marie Therese and Marie des Neiges, and before he died their father Duke Xavier;
On the other side, I know are/were: Prince Sixte Henri and his mother Duchess Madeleine.
Do you know anything about the other members of the Family?

Are you sure that prince Xavier was against Sixte-Henry and Madeleine? I never heard that and I supposed that as long as he lived there were no problems in the family

 

[amedea]

At each event of the Dutch Royal Family , Carlos Hugo is there altough Irene and him are divorced.
Prince Carlos Hugo did not assist his daughter Margareta's first sad wedding, only Irène was there and M. 's brothers and sister

Carlos hugo didn't approve? because the groom was a commoner? or he couldn't be there?

 

[Maura724]

I wonder what could have been her purpose in announcing a pregnancy that was not...

I've never heard anything about Irene announcing a pregnancy and not actually being pregnant, so I can't make much of an argument about what her motives may or may not have been. However, my assumption would be that she wasn't making it up and did truly believe she was pregnant - it's not really the sort of thing that it would be very intelligent to lie about, since you'll obviously be found out when you don't produce a baby in nine months. There's a medical condition known as false pregnancy, or pseudocyesis, in which a woman presents all the symptoms of being pregnant, to the point where doctors often diagnose a pregnancy and she can sometimes even feel a "baby" moving inside, but isn't actually pregnant. It usually happens for psychological reasons with women who desperately want to be pregnant, which could have been the case with Irene - since they had their first child six years in, it's possible they had trouble conceiving. These women always sincerely believe they're pregnant; they're not lying or pretending and there are actual physical changes in their bodies. Here's a wikipedia article about the condition:

False pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not saying this was definitely the case for Irene, it would just be my guess at what might have happened if there was a pregnancy announced but there was no miscarriage and no baby.

 

[lucien]

Well, I think in their days the French king had a personal lifestyle that was equally or more shocking than that of Jeff Koons. With various mistresses, extra marital children and whatnot.

Hmm,yes,but the french Kings made a lot of illigitimate children,quite usual at the time and nothing that was thought of as being strange,contrary,it was an honour to have the king topple you over.

But this sort of screaming and downright ugly art really is almost sacrilidge to the Palais de Versailles.I think.
It is just about Koons,a bubble of air,not about art or respect

 

[Alberto2244]

Prince Sixte-Henri was or still is in Brazil. He came for the party of night of autographs of book writen by a minor socialite on etiquete.
The party took place in the small town of Florianópolis

 

[lucien]

Prince Sixte-Henri was or still is in Brazil. He came for the party of night of autographs of book writen by a minor socialite on etiquete.
The party took place in the small town of Florianópolis

I was aware of that.A minor socialite,how fitting.....

 

[MAfan]

Princess Margarete

I wonder if anyone has informations about Princess Margarete of Bourbon-Parma, whe widow of Prince Gaetano (the youngest son of the late Duke Roberto).
I guess she is still alive, in november she turns 100 years, and I guess she is the oldest living member of the European Royal Families.
She was born in 1909, the daughter of Prince Alessandro Carlo della Torre e Tasso, Duke of Castel Duino, of the italian branch of Thurn und Taxis Family, and his wife Marie, née Princesse de Ligne. She married in Paris in 1931 Prince Gaetano, with whom she had a daughter, Diane. They divorced in 1955.
Any other information?
Thanks

 

[Marsel]

Margarete, Prinzessin von Thurn und Taxis was born on 8 November 1909 at Château de Beloeil in Belgium. Her full name is Marguerite Marie Therese Eilsabeth Frederike Alexandrine Luise, Prinzessin von Thurn und Taxis. Princess Margarete is the sister of Prince Raimundo della Torre e Tasse, 2nd Duca di Castel Duino.

She is still alive and is 99 years old (her 100th birthday is in November). I’m not sure whether she can be considered Prince Gaetano’s widow as they had divorced in 1950 in France, 8 years before his death. Actually, they had first divorced in 1940 in Hungary, however after doubts were raised about the legality of divorce, they decided to give another chance to their marriage, before finally divorcing in 1950 (in France).
Their only daughter, Diana, was born in 1932.

Princess Margarete is the oldest-surviving Royal (at 99), ahead of Infanta Maria Adelaide of Portugal (who is 97) and Archduke Otto of Austria (who is 96, turning 97 in November).
She is also the 3rd oldest Royal in History, after the Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester (who was 102 at the time of her death) and Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother (who was 101 at the time of her death).

She currently resides in France, although occasional visits (or used to visit) Belgium and Italy.

 

[lucien]

New pictures were released of HRH Princess Margarita de Bourbon Parma with Tjalling and dear Julia,a lovely family:

ANP Beeldbank

courtesy Martine Berendsen.

So glad that all are so happy now.

 

[Marengo]

princess Birgitte of Bourbon-Parma, née Countess of Holsein Ledreborg, died on August 21st. She will be burried in the Ledreborg family chapel on August 28th. She married prince Jacques of Bourbon-Parma in 1947, and is a sister-in-law of Queen Anne of Roumania. Her brother Knud married princess Marie-Gabriella of Luxembourg.

 

[maria-olivia]

Marengo ,
Could you gave more informations about her mother Margareta born Princess of Danemark who married Prince René of Bourbon Parme.
How many children did they have ?
Michel husband of Maria Pia of Savoie, Anne Queen of Roumanie , the husband of the late Princess Brigitte and ??

 

[Warren]

Here is the Online-Gotha for Parma