HRH Duke Carlos Hugo (1930-2010) and the Royal House of Bourbon-Parma

[bogardesque]

Is there a connection to Argentina? I seem to recall there was one at the beginning of the previous century, some family (perhaps even illegitimate?) in Argentina, could be a very distant connection. And something to do with a Dutch connection as well. Have double-posted this as I really don't know which line to go with.

 

[lucien]

Wishing him and his family the best of luck!

HRH is well,but looks frail,and attended mass this morning here in Amsterdam.

 

[queenanne]

Brave you say?How odd.Brave is in no way a connotation one comes to think of with Sixtus.

Why would you say he isn't brave? (I don't mean to start a huge debate or anything, its just that I don't know much of his history and am curious as to why you don't seem to respect him. )

 

[lucien]

Why would you say he isn't brave? (I don't mean to start a huge debate or anything, its just that I don't know much of his history and am curious as to why you don't seem to respect him. )

Maybe you could read my posts again?It would help if you would go through posts first,just to get acquanted with the topic or specific person.I've answered your question already in a post above.I am in no way starting anything on that man,he's not worth it.

 

[Taree]

My understanding of the word "brave" in respect of HRH Prince Sixtus-Henri de Bourbon Parma was in the context of his support for the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who, I believe, disagreed with many aspects of the Second Vatican Council. In his support for the Archbishop, Prince Sixtus is by no means alone. Many of us supported the Archbishop and I am personally still looking for a church where the Tridentine Mass is said.
I understand Prince Sixtus also came out in support of Jean Marie Le Penn. That too was rightfully described as brave. I wonder how many agree with him privately but would never say so publicly.
The trauma and tragedy of those years spared no one. Brother against brother, parents against their elder son. Lifelong friends Queen Sofia and Princess Irene no longer friends, and, as far as I am aware, never to speak or meet again.
At least one of the sisters and supporters of Prince Carlos Hugo, distinguished themselves by pelting the then Princess Sofia with fruit, so that she had to hastily exit the theatre where the incident took place.
This incident did NOT involve Princess Francoise, older sister of Carlos Hugo,
I have seen a different account of the events Lucien describes. This was on an official Bourbon website, detailing the history of the Bourbons of all branches.

Taree

 

[Regina]

My understanding of the word "brave" in respect of HRH Prince Sixtus-Henri de Bourbon Parma was in the context of his support for the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who, I believe, disagreed with many aspects of the Second Vatican Council. In his support for the Archbishop, Prince Sixtus is by no means alone. Many of us supported the Archbishop and I am personally still looking for a church where the Tridentine Mass is said.
I understand Prince Sixtus also came out in support of Jean Marie Le Penn. That too was rightfully described as brave. I wonder how many agree with him privately but would never say so publicly.

I see your point and I agree. People want to hear Royals praising leftist and ecumenical ideas just because that's what they believe in. If Sixtus is a communist or a fascist, a traditionalist catholic or an atheist, it's up with him. But, at least the Prince is not hypocrital.

(P.S. Taree, just a brief note about the Tridentine Mass: The Society of St. Pius X Great Britain - UK Chapel Addresses )

 

[Tosca]

Please, kids, do not forget that political discussions are not permitted on these forums.

 

[lucien]

Please, kids, do not forget that political discussions are not permitted on these forums.

Ofcourse Tosca.
Hope this is allowed,if not,just delete,no problem:

The Benelux Royals Message Board: May 9, 1976 / Montejura.

courtesy dear Marianne,BRMB.

 

[Warren]

That was intersting Lucien. Two killed as Sixtus and his group attacked the rally of his brother's supporters? Must have made for interesting family get-togethers.

 

[lucien]

That was intersting Lucien. Two killed as Sixtus and his group attacked the rally of his brother's supporters? Must have made for interesting family get-togethers.

Interesting get-out of there's would be more appropiate Warren.Leave that to Sixtus,he's the family nuisance,always was.
I never forgave him,as I said in a previous post on the previous page,I wasn't joking.The man is mad,insane really.

 

[Next Star]

That last post that lucien made is disturbing and is Prince Carlos Hugo of Bourbon-Parma still trying to claim this right to the Spanish throne or ihas he stopped making claims to the throne? For anyone who answers this question thanks in advance.

 

[Marengo]

Carlos-Hugo came to terms with his position a long time ago. I believe he gave up much of the ideals of Carlism at the time of the shooting incident, which led to a divorce from his wife (they noticed they didn't share much else than the cause they had been fighting for in vein) and a rift with his family, who stayed leaning to the ultra-catholic side.

Carlos-Hugo accepted Juan-Carlos as king of Spain soon enough too, and I believe it was reported that in the late 90-ties the Duke and the King had lunch together at Zarzuela. Some say that Prince Felipe and Princess Maria-Carolina were also present, but that might have been wishfull thinking (but what a great match it would have been).

 

[lucien]

Yes,the King and CH did have lunch together and old differences were buried for good.I've seen pics of that meeting at the time,IIRC at the Palacio del Oriente,in full regal splendour,but can't recall Princess Maria-Carolina being there as well.Sure,it was wishfull thinking,but good lord,what a match it would have been indeed!...sigh...

Dear Maria-Carolina did accompany her aunt,Queen Beatrix, at the funeral of HRH The Countess of Barcelona,the King's mother tho.

Carlos-Hugo,like Marengo said,has since decades given up the claim as he realised it wasn't in any way realistic anymore.

 

[Tosca]

Here's a link to the Bourbon - Parma family website (Italian):

Untitled Document

 

[principessa]

Is this the official site? Or is it <<< Bienvenidos a www.borbonparma.org >>>

Does anyone know when HRH Princess Margarita's child exactly is expected?

 

[Warren]

<<< Bienvenidos a www.borbonparma.org >>> is the official website.
It is "under construction" but does have some good familiy trees/lines of descent.

 

[lucien]

HRH Princess Margarita de Borbon Parma,Contessa di Colorno,gave birth to a daughter,Julia Carolina Catharina,Amsterdam september 3rd.
Mother and child are fine.

http://www.royalimages.nl/search.pp?page=1&ShowPicture=7462944&flush=2

Courtesy Martine Berendsen.

http://gpdhome.typepad.com/royalblognl_news_summary/2008/09/latest-daughter.html

courtesy dear HJA´s
http://www.royalblog.nl

 

[Tosca]

Congratulations to the happy couple!

 

[Marengo]

Duke Carlos Hugo attended the annual event for the corps diplmatique in Amsterdam this thursday. The event was organised by Grand Mastress Martine van Loon-Labouchere. The Duke only intended to be present at the reception at hotel l'Europe but while there he spontaniously accepted the invitation of Martina van Loon to participate in the rest of the programme too. The diplomas later made a carriage ride through Amsterdam. The Duke was seated in the first carriage wih Mrs. van Loon and Mrs. Mary Rost-Onnes (of the bankers). The diplomats stopped at a cafe for drinks and later went to the house the van Loon family at the Keizersgracht. Here they enjoyed some champagne that is usually served at the French embassy. The newspaper said that the Duke's health was still frail though.

source: de Telegraaf

A link with pictures to the event, among them a picture of the Duke:
Koetstocht | Gespot

(provided by Joris on the BRMB)

 

[Carminha Stalker]

It certainly is an interesting family!

 

[pamk]

It seems that Carlos-Hugo has found a "safe haven" in Holland - I think that he and Irene have made peace. He seems to be accepted into the family by Queen Beatrix.
Hopefully, he is receiving the best medical treatment. It's great that he gets out and seems to keep busy.
The whole Bourbon-Parma family squabbles are so tragic that they are almost comical. Doesn't every family have its share of drama? Royals are just like everyone else -

 

[MAfan]

The best medical treatment for what?

 

[Marengo]

The duke has cancer and has been treated in the Antoni van Leeuwenhoek hospital here in the Netherlands. I think he is either staying in a hotel in Amsterdam or with his son Jaime, who also lives here (when he is not travelling). He must be able to see his first granddaughter quite frequently as she also lives in Amsterdam.

 

[Next Star]

Cancer is a terrible diease I hope that Prince Carlos-Hugo wins his battle and becomes of free of this illness.So his family does not have to worry and he is healthy and won't be sick any longer.

 

[morhange]

What was the situation with the elder children of Duke Robert of Parma? Six of his children with his first wife were declared legally mentally retarded. Was there a cause for this unusually high number? Two more of their children died in infancy, another was stillborn. The remaining three were normal and married and had children, including his eldest child, Marie Louise, who married the king of Bulgaria.

But I am curious about the six children who were born mentally retarded. What happened to them? They were all born in sucession of each other, the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth children of this marriage, so I thought maybe it was a similar situation to the two children of the comte de Paris. Can anyone help?

 

[lucien]

What was the situation with the elder children of Duke Robert of Parma? Six of his children with his first wife were declared legally mentally retarded. Was there a cause for this unusually high number? Two more of their children died in infancy, another was stillborn. The remaining three were normal and married and had children, including his eldest child, Marie Louise, who married the king of Bulgaria.

But I am curious about the six children who were born mentally retarded. What happened to them? They were all born in sucession of each other, the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth children of this marriage, so I thought maybe it was a similar situation to the two children of the comte de Paris. Can anyone help?

Was there a cause you say?I would think so,inbreeding and vd's.The latter was cause for Queen Wilhelmina to have 5 miscarriages.Royals,then,and some now,had difficulties keeping their zipper up regardless........
The other of Roberts children just got lucky...

But to get back to topic,the Duke of Parma isn't convalescing as one had hoped.He always was rather frail,but is a shadow of his usual self now.It will take a longer time,God willing,to recuperate.

 

[Warren]

It should be kept in mind that Duke Roberto I had 12 children by his first wife, Maria Pia of the Two Sicilies, and another 12 by his second, Maria Antonia of Portugal. Among the latter 12 were Felix, who married Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg (thereby giving their descendants the Parma royal rank), and Zita, the last Empress of Austria and mother of the Archduke Otto. The problems with some of the first 12 children may possibly be attributed to the Two Sicilies habit of regular inbreeding.

A look at the family tree shows a disconcertingly high number of 1st cousin and niece-uncle marriages within the Bourbon-Two Sicilies dynasty, with a resulting disproportionate number of early deaths. Fortunately Maria Antonia of Portugal had a German mother of immediate Löwenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg and Hohenlohe-Langenburg descent which may have introduced a healthier bloodline into the second dozen of Duke Roberto's progeny.

 

[Carminha Stalker]

I hope Prince Carlos Hugo gets well from his grave illness. He seems to have mellowed along the years, because I still remember when he was first married to princess Irene and they were battling for his rights. It´s a good thing that he finally made his peace with King Juan Carlos and is living his life peacefully, despite his illness.
How interesting that Prince Felix had also Portuguese descent (on his other´s side). I didn´t know that.

 

[Marengo]

Prince Charles-Emmanuel of Bourbon-Parma has written a letter to President Sarkozy and asked the president to stop the exposition of the 'scandalous' objects of Jeff Koons in Versailles...
Article in French: Un descendant du Roi Soleil choqué par Jeff Koons - Tout savoir sur les dernières actualités politiques, monde, société, sports, écologie avec le journal en ligne Libération

Courtesy: monarchen.nl

 

[Tosca]

I couldn't agree more with Prince Hugo Carlos: IMO Jeff koons is not an artist. In Italy he became famous for marrying ex pornstar and former Radical Party deputy Ilona Staller (she's Hungarian by birth).