General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 5: September 2019 - December 2020

[gerry]

Ah, that's gunpowder not spice.
It's about not burning off the gunpowder.

= Not wasting all the shots/opportunities/options and so on in one go.

Aha, that makes much more sense! Thank you Muhler

 

[Somebody]

Prince Joachim and Princess Marie give interview to Paris Match

https://princessmariescloset.com/20...princess-marie-give-interview-to-paris-match/

Thanks for highlighting it. It give a neat view of their lives without revealing much. After reading the summary I am mainly wondering what Marie considers 'difficult' about not having employees taking care of the family while she is currently a stay-at-home mom and her children are at school 8 hours a day... So, that doesn't seem that complicated to me.

 

[tommy100]

Hmm doesn't exactly seem all that taxing does it really. But I guess maybe they are use to having people around to help in which case not having any might require some adjustment.

 

[Somebody]

I assume the whole move to Paris required quite some adjustments for everyone involved and apparently adding to that 'running your own household' was perceived as difficult. However, it's good for the family to experience at least somewhat of a 'normal family life'. That will hopefully help appreciate what most families go through in terms of balancing work and family life.

Would it be true that the majority of the Danes doesn't have one of the parents stay home full-time? Would they normally both work full-time or what is considered 'normal' for the average Dane?

 

[JR76]

Would it be true that the majority of the Danes doesn't have one of the parents stay home full-time? Would they normally both work full-time or what is considered 'normal' for the average Dane?

Two working parents are the norm both in Denmark and the other Nordic countries. Without looking up numbers I know that there's a bit of a discrepancy when it comes to the level of full-time employment between male and females but the general norm is still full-time employment. That said it's not uncommon for one of the parents (guess which one) to work lesser hours during the first few years of their child's life.

 

[MJudith]

Except that princess Marie never actually said anything that is reported on this thread...

I have no idea if the person that is behind the Princess Marie's closet is French but she definitely did not give an accurate translation of what was being said.

What was said was :

"Vous vous occupez de vos enfants, sans personnel dédié. Comment faites-vous ?

M. de D. Je cours sans cesse. Mais je vois grandir Henrik et Athena. L’essentiel, pour nous, était de préserver le cercle familial avec tout ce qu’il représente de sécurité et de continuité. "


Literally :

" You are taking care of your children without nannies? How do you do it? "


Marie : I am always on the run. But I can see Henrik and Athena grow up. The main thing for us was to maintain the family unity in all its security and continuity"



and that was the end of it....

In France, the norm is also to have two working parents...

 

[Somebody]

Thanks! Good to know what she actually said.

 

[MARG]

I was interested to read about the difference in school, both in hours and curriculum. I recently watched a documentary with Michael Moore talking to Finnish students in their early to mid teens and comparing their education to the US and most of the western world.

He was amazed at the lifestyle approach to learning and how the kids were far more well rounded and better educated than their US peers with far less time spent in school and with little to no homework.

He's was staggered (as am I) by how many of the teens were not only bi-lingual but multi-lingual. I believe the Danish educational system and lifestyle is not too dissimilar, so that would mean the culture shock for Henrik and Athena must have been more than a litte unpleasant.

Marie speaking on their Danish style Christmas plans was almost a relief.

 

[Muhler]

I was interested to read about the difference in school, both in hours and curriculum. I recently watched a documentary with Michael Moore talking to Finnish students in their early to mid teens and comparing their education to the US and most of the western world.

He was amazed at the lifestyle approach to learning and how the kids were far more well rounded and better educated than their US peers with far less time spent in school and with little to no homework.

He's was staggered (as am I) by how many of the teens were not only bi-lingual but multi-lingual. I believe the Danish educational system and lifestyle is not too dissimilar, so that would mean the culture shock for Henrik and Athena must have been more than a litte unpleasant.

Marie speaking on their Danish style Christmas plans was almost a relief.

If that's the Michael Moore docu I remember, he also dealt with the French school system. In particular the emphasis on the food they are served in schools. - Because in many countries children have not eaten or at least had a healthy meal before coming to school, (Including DK) because they are poor, or because the children get up and go to school by themselves (or with other siblings) because both parents have already left for work.

I believe the French school-system is a little more formal (in regards to addressing the teachers) and more structured than in DK, with much more emphasis on individual classes, rather than themes involving and overlapping the various fields - say biology, Danish, science, math and orientation about the society in relation to a weekly theme about energy.
But keep in mind that Athena and Henrik attended a French school in DK. So the cultural shock may not have been that great.

 

[MJudith]

French system is very formal in addressing the teachers, university included.
It was a bit of a shock when my master supervisor in the UK insisted that I use his first name when writing to him and stop starting my email by "Dear professor" ?

It is very rare that there is an overlapping theme across different classes except in dedicated courses that are made on purpose to mix two academic fields.

The 8 hours day is (IMO) very handy for working mums but maybe a bit long for students , Regular hours for children until 10 are 8h30 am to 4H30 pm it is even extended up to 6h30 pm on many schools for "personal study time" for a small fee.

I think that to give a fair comparison, number of students per class should be taken into account too. It is very common to have more than 30 students per class in France

 

[iceflower]

Prince Joachim is nominated for one of this year's Danish Zulu Awards.

The Zulu Award is an audience award awarded by the Danish TV broadcaster TV 2 ZULU in the fields of film, television, music and sports.

Joachim is nominated for his successful documentary that was shown last year, the awards will be presented on February 16:


** BB: Kæmpe overraskelse for Joachim: Sådan kan han skrive kongelig historie **

 

[Muhler]

Thanks, Iceflower.

Well, that's an official pad on the shoulder from the "cultural-segment." He can't be displeased with that!

I only watched the first part (as I found the topic too broad for such a compressed coverage) but from what I hear it had a broad public appeal. History documentaries usually have here in DK, the series about Frederik IX was also huge success.
From what I understand the appeal was indeed very much down to Joachim. He is a fine narrator, as he speaks clearly and is used to addressing an audience. But it was more down to him being genuinely interested in the topic and asking the relevant questions to the relevant people - and allowing them to talk. Something many hosts and journalists tend to forget.
That is, that it's not about them, but about what whoever they are talking to is saying. (*)

It is IMO usually interesting to listen to someone, who is burning for a subject, but who at the same time can tell about the very same subject without sounding like a nerd. And that's where I get the impression that Joachim hit the mark.

So I think we are going to see more of Joachim on TV.
Because it worked! Joachim also seem to have been bitten by the documentary-bug and networks and producers do think in viewer ratings.

It also makes me reconsider my pet-theory that J&M will settle in France. They still might, but for me the pendulum is now swinging in the opposite direction. Because Joachim has found a purpose with his life, to replace what else he was going to do, now that he will gradually fade away as a primary royal. To be replaced by first Christian and I'm convinced Isabella as well.
- Apart, of course from his military engagement. He may remain an officer of the reserves. But being a full colonel he can't advance any further, unless he becomes a career officer. (If he goes professional I will predict he will become brigadier within a year or two.)
But I can also imagine Joachim being attached to the Defense Command or the Ministry of Defense or the staff school at the Military Academy as a civilian consultant. Or remain in France/Belgium for a couple of years in connection with NATO, or being the main Danish liaison officer in France, vis a vis the increasing military co-operation between France and DK.

(*) The outside DK, practically unknown TV-host and journalist Søren Ryge, is a master in that respect! He also has an uncanny ability to find ordinary people, with ordinary lives and make them extraordinarily interesting. Hence why his programs are so popular and continue to be interesting, even 20-30 years later.

 

[JR76]

Thanks, Iceflower.

Well, that's an official pad on the shoulder from the "cultural-segment." He can't be displeased with that!

I only watched the first part (as I found the topic too broad for such a compressed coverage) but from what I hear it had a broad public appeal. History documentaries usually have here in DK, the series about Frederik IX was also huge success.
From what I understand the appeal was indeed very much down to Joachim. He is a fine narrator, as he speaks clearly and is used to addressing an audience. But it was more down to him being genuinely interested in the topic and asking the relevant questions to the relevant people - and allowing them to talk. Something many hosts and journalists tend to forget.
That is, that it's not about them, but about what whoever they are talking to is saying. (*)

It is IMO usually interesting to listen to someone, who is burning for a subject, but who at the same time can tell about the very same subject without sounding like a nerd. And that's where I get the impression that Joachim hit the mark.

So I think we are going to see more of Joachim on TV.
Because it worked! Joachim also seem to have been bitten by the documentary-bug and networks and producers do think in viewer ratings.

It also makes me reconsider my pet-theory that J&M will settle in France. They still might, but for me the pendulum is now swinging in the opposite direction. Because Joachim has found a purpose with his life, to replace what else he was going to do, now that he will gradually fade away as a primary royal. To be replaced by first Christian and I'm convinced Isabella as well.
- Apart, of course from his military engagement. He may remain an officer of the reserves. But being a full colonel he can't advance any further, unless he becomes a career officer. (If he goes professional I will predict he will become brigadier within a year or two.)
But I can also imagine Joachim being attached to the Defense Command or the Ministry of Defense or the staff school at the Military Academy as a civilian consultant. Or remain in France/Belgium for a couple of years in connection with NATO, or being the main Danish liaison officer in France, vis a vis the increasing military co-operation between France and DK.

(*) The outside DK, practically unknown TV-host and journalist Søren Ryge, is a master in that respect! He also has an uncanny ability to find ordinary people, with ordinary lives and make them extraordinarily interesting. Hence why his programs are so popular and continue to be interesting, even 20-30 years later.

If Prince Joachim manages to somewhat fill the shoes of Søren Ryge he'll turn into a very successful TV-personality. That man could turn the most seemingly boring subject interesting by humming a few words and then let the images do the talking. I especially remember a segment from an archaeological dig where he said nothing more than "De graver" (they're digging) and then let us listen to the archaeologists instead of the usual commentary chattering.

 

[eya]

Happy 44th Birthday to Princess Marie!!


https://www.instagram.com/p/B8NusnfApmX/

 

[polyesco]

Joachim, Marie and kids will stay in Paris
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...joachim-og-hans-familie-sig-til-corona-krisen

"Prince Joachim and Princess Marie are staying in Paris with their two children and follow the recommendations of the French authorities in relation to COVID-19," reports the Royal House Communication Department

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

I'm surprised. Tonight bars, restaurants and other shops that aren't necessities have closed in France, which is the third most infected country in Europe after Italy and Spain.

 

[Muhler]

I think there may be three reasons for that:

A) Marie has relatives in France, so they and their children are not "alone" so to speak.

B) At present J&M live in France. They are not on holiday, but have a permanent place to live and Joachim at least is stationed there, working.
The guidelines issued by the Danish Foreign Ministry advise Danes on holiday or shorter stays abroad to return home, while Danes who work or reside for a longer period abroad are advised to follow the directions of the local authorities. I.e. the French government.

C) It may not be inadvisable to split up the DRF, just in case.

- I don't think option C is seriously considered though. Not at present.

But QMII is almost 80. She's been a heavy smoker all her life and she has become a little frail physically. She may not survive being infected with Corona.
It is an eventuality we have to consider.
Frederik could be infected too and there is a small risk that he could end up being seriously ill as a result.
So keeping the various members of the DRF apart, so they don't infect each other might not be such a bad precaution.
I understand that Victoria of Sweden and her father will stay apart for the time being for that very reason.

 

[JR76]

C) It may not be inadvisable to split up the DRF, just in case.

I understand that Victoria of Sweden and her father will stay apart for the time being for that very reason.

Yes, it has been officially communicated by Royal family to separate the King and the Crown Princess for as much as possible. Just in case.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Since there are 6 people between Joachim and the throne – 4 of which are in the age group that seems to be the least affected by the virus – I think we can exclude splitting the DRF up for safety reasons as the motivation behind J&M's decision to remain in Paris.

It makes sense that Joachim would stay. He's in France for a reason and so long as his course isn't abandoned or postponed because of the outbreak, it seems perfectly logical for him to stay.

I do think one could argue that Marie and the children should be heading home. If anything for the same reason that (I imagine was one of the reasons) M&F abandoned their stay in Switzerland – that it seems awfully contradictory for the government to encourage the average Dane to cut their trips abroad short while members of the royal family are still chilling abroad. And practically speaking, unlike Joachim, Marie and the kids do fall under the category of Danish citizens staying abroad without a practical purpose.

On the other hand, if we set the symbolic value aside, I doubt it makes much of a difference whether they're in Paris or in Copenhagen. France has a higher infection count yes, but 1. France has a much bigger population than Denmark and 2. as of 12 March, only people with serious symptoms are being tested here so the infection numbers coming out of Denmark aren't reliable at all.

 

[carlota]

I do think one could argue that Marie and the children should be heading home. If anything for the same reason that (I imagine was one of the reasons) M&F abandoned their stay in Switzerland – that it seems awfully contradictory for the government to encourage the average Dane to cut their trips abroad short while members of the royal family are still chilling abroad. And practically speaking, unlike Joachim, Marie and the kids do fall under the category of Danish citizens staying abroad without a practical purpose.

when F&M announced they'd come back, i wondered if the same would happen to J&M but i told myself that the situations between F&M and J&M are different. F&M and their family went abroad in a private capacity, taking time off their work and duties to give their kids an experience of living abroad and going to school abroad. J&M are in france due to J's military career - his family is there to support that but the reason why they are out of the country is due to work, not pleasure.

similarly, whilst it may be true that 'the government encourage the average Dane to cut their trips abroad short' this is not the case where people have relocated outside the country due to work, but applies to those travelling for a short duration typically due to leisurely pursuits. obviously those who relocated are welcome back but the guidance is for people on travel, not permanently abroad. so these two situations are very different.

 

[Muhler]

I was actually thinking of Joachim having to step in as Rigsforstander in the far from unlikely event that QMII, Frederik and Mary goes down with Corona.

And I don't agree with the idea of our Marie and the children returning to DK. I would think it's only natural for a family to stay together during a crisis-period like this.

However, since J&M are in Paris and flights to and from Copenhagen have pretty much ended, and the border between Germany and DK being closed in both directions, I think it is unlikely that J&M will return back to DK to celebrate QMII's now very low key birthday.
They would have to go by car or train as I very much doubt an air force plane would be send to collect them.

 

[Nordic]

. J&M are in france due to J's military career - his family is there to support that but the reason why they are out of the country is due to work, not pleasure.
.

Did the Danish Army/Ministry of Defence send Joachim to study in Paris?
If they did that, I can consider it work.
If not, I consider it private.

Whatever it is, I don't see the need for J&family to return to Denmark at the moment.


Why would there be a need for a rigsforstander if QM or the CPC "goes down with Corona"?
The Queen would still be in the country.

 

[Muhler]

Did the Danish Army/Ministry of Defence send Joachim to study in Paris?
If they did that, I can consider it work.
If not, I consider it private.

Whatever it is, I don't see the need for J&family to return to Denmark at the moment.


Why would there be a need for a rigsforstander if QM or the CPC "goes down with Corona"?
The Queen would still be in the country.

She also has to be able to function.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

But the chance of all three of them getting infected and subsequently being hit so hard that none of them are able to make sound decisions is very low.

when F&M announced they'd come back, i wondered if the same would happen to J&M but i told myself that the situations between F&M and J&M are different. F&M and their family went abroad in a private capacity, taking time off their work and duties to give their kids an experience of living abroad and going to school abroad. J&M are in france due to J's military career - his family is there to support that but the reason why they are out of the country is due to work, not pleasure.

similarly, whilst it may be true that 'the government encourage the average Dane to cut their trips abroad short' this is not the case where people have relocated outside the country due to work, but applies to those travelling for a short duration typically due to leisurely pursuits. obviously those who relocated are welcome back but the guidance is for people on travel, not permanently abroad. so these two situations are very different.

I mean, pedantically speaking, the situations aren't different. J&M are in Paris because of Joachim's studies (not work), M&F were in Verbier because of the children's studies. The difference lies in that it's easier for the kids to abandon their courses (which were also considerably shorter than Joachim's) than it is for Joachim to abandon his.

But that only puts him in a different situation. Marie and the children's situation is no different. They're there because Joachim is. I think it's a stretch to argue that their stay serves any practical purpose but I concur that it must be nice for them to be together. Still doesn't make their situation different to M&F's (who too were on a long-term stay abroad). So from a symbolic point of view, I still think it would've looked best if they'd cut their stay a couple of months shorter.

However, since J&M are in Paris and flights to and from Copenhagen have pretty much ended, and the border between Germany and DK being closed in both directions, I think it is unlikely that J&M will return back to DK to celebrate QMII's now very low key birthday.
They would have to go by car or train as I very much doubt an air force plane would be send to collect them.

Neither country has halted international flights and to the best of my knowledge, although the borders are closed, people with "a worthy purpose" are allowed to pass through.

 

[ricarda]

But the chance of all three of them getting infected and subsequently being hit so hard that none of them are able to make sound decisions is very low.



I mean, pedantically speaking, the situations aren't different. J&M are in Paris because of Joachim's studies (not work), M&F were in Verbier because of the children's studies. The difference lies in that it's easier for the kids to abandon their courses (which were also considerably shorter than Joachim's) than it is for Joachim to abandon his.

But that only puts him in a different situation. Marie and the children's situation is no different. They're there because Joachim is. I think it's a stretch to argue that their stay serves any practical purpose but I concur that it must be nice for them to be together. Still doesn't make their situation different to M&F's (who too were on a long-term stay abroad). So from a symbolic point of view, I still think it would've looked best if they'd cut their stay a couple of months shorter.

I agree with you but, pedantically speaking, Frederik wasn't even on a long-term stay abroad. He was in Denmark most of the time, with visits to his family in Switzerland now and then.
Regarding Mary and Marie - yes, of course there is no difference, Marie is not in Paris for work and Mary was not in Verbier just for pleasure. Both are/were abroad to take care of their children/support their families.

 

[Elektra]

Prince Henrik was treated yesterday at the Righospitalet in Copenhagen for bronchitis and breathing problems. He tested negative for coronavirus.

His parents Prince Joachim and Princess Marie and his sister Princess Athena went back to Denmark with him. The family is now at Amalienborg.

http://kongehuset.dk/en/news/trh-prince-joachim-and-princess-marie-and-children-are-home-in-denmark

http://kongehuset.dk/nyheder/dkh-prins-joachim-og-prinsesse-marie-og-boern-er-hjemme-i-danmark

 

[Somebody]

This would probably also indicate that Joachim's classes have been cancelled (or at least aren't conducted in person). Would they be required to stay in quarantaine for 14 days because they traveled from France to Denmark?

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

It's only "strongly advised" that you remain quarantined for 14 days after returning home and isn't an actual requirement. The Danish authorities have been extremely laissez-faire on that matter.

I agree with you but, pedantically speaking, Frederik wasn't even on a long-term stay abroad. He was in Denmark most of the time, with visits to his family in Switzerland now and then.
Regarding Mary and Marie - yes, of course there is no difference, Marie is not in Paris for work and Mary was not in Verbier just for pleasure. Both are/were abroad to take care of their children/support their families.

Sorry, I missed this. I actually believe he's been sharing his time pretty evenly between Denmark and Switzerland but of course I don't have numbers on it. I'm not sure how it impacts the argument I'm making though?

 

[Muhler]

Prince Henrik was treated yesterday at the Righospitalet in Copenhagen for bronchitis and breathing problems. He tested negative for coronavirus.

His parents Prince Joachim and Princess Marie and his sister Princess Athena went back to Denmark with him. The family is now at Amalienborg.

TRH Prince Joachim and Princess Marie and children are home in Denmark | The Danish Monarchy - Front Page

D.K.H. Prins Joachim og Prinsesse Marie og børn er hjemme i Danmark | Kongehuset

No surprise. Henrik has had been ill with asthma before.

No surprise either that they took him back to Rigshospitalet in Denmark. Even though Henrik must be very good at French right now it is no doubt more reassuring that he can communicate fluently with the doctors in Danish.

I guess the staff-course has been closed. There is no vital reason for keeping that course open in the current situation as I see it.
It probably means at least Joachim's stay will be prolonged for up to a few months. Whether our Marie and the children will stay with him will be most interesting.
Because the schools in DK open in early August after the summer holiday, and it makes little sense in Henrik and Athena going to a French school for a few weeks only to be pulled out a return to DK
If they do stay in Paris after the schools starts in DK, that will to me be a very strong indication that J&M will stay for another year in France.
And then we have an interesting discussion on our hands!

 

[polyesco]

poor Henrik, hope he makes a speedy recovery.

I guess Joachim's course has been cancelled? I do hope they stay in Denmark and don't try to fly back to Paris anytime soon, It would give a wrong message.