General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 5: September 2019 - December 2020

[Denville]

Harry wasn’t allowed to remain in the military, so a similar option wasn’t available to him.

I actually don’t understand what Joachim wants out of his life. From what I’m reading he wasn’t a good farmer/farm owner. That profession seemed “forced” on him. But has he shown, in the past, a passion for anything in particular? Posters make him seem like he’s been adrift for most of his adult life. Am I wrong?

Harry chose to leave the army, because he didn't want to do a desk job.... I agree that It doesn't seem as if Joachim is very setled in any occupation

 

[Blog Real]

The Danish royal house has just issued a statement announcing that Prince Joachim has been discharged from the hospital.

H.K.H. Prins Joachim er udskrevet fra hospitalet | Kongehuset

 

[Muhler]

That's good.

I understand it's very common to suffer from severe fatigue after such an ordeal, even if you recover fully.

 

[camelot23ca]

I’m very happy to read that Joachim is likely to make a full recovery. I hope he follows the advice of his physicians to the letter and enjoys good health for a very long time!

The interview with Joachim and Marie is confusing to me. I don’t get why it’s hard for royals to understand that nothing good ever comes from public negative behaviour or comments. Especially royals who have been around for a long time like Marie. Tension with your husband? Don’t like your in -laws? Don’t like the press? Royal life in general not at all what you expected? Ok, well, take it out on your husband at home. Add it to the list of things to discuss with your therapist. Cry in the shower. Set up a Fight Club in the basement of the palace if you have to but keep in mind that there is a reason why the first rule of Fight Club is that you do not talk about Fight Club!

Marie is far from the only royal who’s done something like this, and hers isn’t even the worst example, (and I get that this has been a stressful year for everyone), but come on! If your husband’s mother is Kris Jenner then ok, this is the kind of thing you do. If your husband’s mother is a Head if State then the emotions you get to express in public are happiness, enthusiasm and gratitude. Regardless of what’s going on behind the scenes.

And I would say the above is even more true if you’re a military wife. If a Canadian officer was given the honour of a prestigious foreign posting and his or her spouse made these comments to the press it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say the officer’s chance for career advancement would effectively be over. I doubt things are too different in Denmark, unless the officer in question is Queen Margrethe’s son.

 

[Denville]

I’m very happy to read that Joachim is likely to make a full recovery. I hope he follows the advice of his physicians to the letter and enjoys good health for a very long time!

The interview with Joachim and Marie is confusing to me. I don’t get why it’s hard for royals to understand that nothing good ever comes from public negative behaviour or comments. Especially royals who have been around for a long time like Marie. Tension with your husband? Don’t like your in -laws? Don’t like the press? Royal life in general not at all what you expected? Ok, well, take it out on your husband at home. Add it to the list of things to discuss with your therapist. Cry in the shower. Set up a Fight Club in the basement of the palace if you have to but keep in mind that there is a reason why the first rule of Fight Club is that you do not talk about Fight Club!

Marie is far from the only royal who’s done something like this, and hers isn’t even the worst example, (and I get that this has been a stressful year for everyone), but come on! If your husband’s mother is Kris Jenner then ok, this is the kind of thing you do. If your husband’s mother is a Head if State then the emotions you get to express in public are happiness, enthusiasm and gratitude. Regardless of what’s going on behind the scenes.

A.

If they are so unhappy, perhaps this illness may mean that tehy have an acceptable excuse for pulling out of this posting due to ill health.

 

[polyesco]

Glad to hear he is out of the hospital and can relax/recover at "home" at Château de Cayx. Leaving the hospital is always a relief both for the patient and for the family.

 

[Muhler]

If they are so unhappy, perhaps this illness may mean that tehy have an acceptable excuse for pulling out of this posting due to ill health.

Come on!

There is a huge step from being displeased (and perhaps stressed) to using this as an excuse to opt out.

There is a no need to vilify J&M more than absolutely necessary.

 

[camelot23ca]

If they are so unhappy, perhaps this illness may mean that tehy have an acceptable excuse for pulling out of this posting due to ill health.

I wonder if Joachim is unhappy, though? Marie made her feelings clear but I didn’t get the sense that he had big problems with their current setup. It sounds like things happened pretty quickly at the beginning but to me it seemed that Joachim at least understood that he’d been given a good opportunity.

 

[Muhler]

I wonder if Joachim is unhappy, though? Marie made her feelings clear but I didn’t get the sense that he had big problems with their current setup. It sounds like things happened pretty quickly at the beginning but to me it seemed that Joachim at least understood that he’d been given a good opportunity.

Indeed. It seems to me this is mostly our Marie (pretty unwise) voicing her frustrations, stress and dissatisfaction with not having a say. Even though I also think Joachim share her feelings to some extent.
But Joachim would not speak against his wife in front of a journalist, let alone tell her to be quiet.

And even though that's life, because you do sometimes have to interrupt your cozy life or simply go do your duty, it's also refreshingly honest.

One of the things I like about Marie is that she is terrible at pretending.
If she is enthusiastic she shows it.
If she is shocked, she shows it.
If she is bored stiff, she's on the verge of nodding off.
And if she is angry or frustrated about something, she says so.

We can discuss whether she has a point or acts a little spoiled here. (I think so actually.) And it no doubt prevents her from being crown princess material, but at least it's honest and human.

 

[Lady Daly]

So glad to hear Joachim has been discharged from the hospital. A lot going forward depends on his continued recovery. It is very possible both Marie and Joachim have had a life reset as a result of his hospitalization. Best wishes on his continued recovery.

 

[Eskimo]

Could it be that Joachim is unhappy it is a job? It seems that the DRF does not really do much, so they have a lot of free time on their hands. And this probably requires 30 plus hours of actual work per week?

 

[Helen.CH]

That's good.

I understand it's very common to suffer from severe fatigue after such an ordeal, even if you recover fully.

Possible, it depends very much how the surgery was done, if only through the nose f.e. it is far more easy to recover than if really the skull was opened. the bones need at least 6 weeks to heal and it takes months after that with misfeelings plus the brain needs to calm down after being touched in a surgery, this alone causes lots of confusion aso.
I think the information published is maybe a try to give the family peace and of course I hope things work out, but to be honest no one can say how things develop at this early stage. It is good as he seems to be not paralysed or something but there are many many things which can occur, psychologically, too.
Time will twll.

 

[Denville]

Come on!

There is a huge step from being displeased (and perhaps stressed) to using this as an excuse to opt out.

There is a no need to vilify J&M more than absolutely necessary.

How is it vilifying him? If they are so unhappy that they said all this to a newspaper, they must be very unhappy. Perhaps they gave it a try and found it was worse than they expected... and if he has had a serious health problem this would be a way to step out and return to Denmark.. He has other interests, doesn't he? He coudl probaby find some other work to do...

 

[Denville]

Could it be that Joachim is unhappy it is a job? It seems that the DRF does not really do much, so they have a lot of free time on their hands. And this probably requires 30 plus hours of actual work per week?

It sounds like Marie is more unhappy than he is.. but still, he may have allowed himself to be pressured into taking it, he doesn't like it. His wife is even more unhappy.. and he is more miserable because he has a cross wife at home, complaining...

 

[Muhler]

Could it be that Joachim is unhappy it is a job? It seems that the DRF does not really do much, so they have a lot of free time on their hands. And this probably requires 30 plus hours of actual work per week?

Well, he would have been used to long hours at the office while managing Schackenborg.
The work as attache means quite a few hours at the office. Many meetings. Many visits to bases. Regular working dinners and receptions. So it's not a 9-5 job.

How is it vilifying him? If they are so unhappy that they said all this to a newspaper, they must be very unhappy. Perhaps they gave it a try and found it was worse than they expected... and if he has had a serious health problem this would be a way to step out and return to Denmark.. He has other interests, doesn't he? He coudl probaby find some other work to do...

I don't know how unhappy they really are. Perhaps they don't even know themselves. Perhaps more stressed and frustrated than unhappy IMO.
So far they have only had a genuine day to day life about now.
I'm sure he could find something else to do and perhaps he wanted/planned to?

It sounds like Marie is more unhappy than he is.. but still, he may have allowed himself to be pressured into taking it, he doesn't like it. His wife is even more unhappy.. and he is more miserable because he has a cross wife at home, complaining...

You may very well nail it there.

 

[Nordic]

The work as attache means quite a few hours at the office. Many meetings. Many visits to bases. Regular working dinners and receptions. So it's not a 9-5 job.
.

Well, an assistant/deputy attaché has been appointed to assist him.

 

[Denville]

Well, he would have been used to long hours at the office while managing Schackenborg.
The work as attache means quite a few hours at the office. Many meetings. Many visits to bases. Regular working dinners and receptions. So it's not a 9-5 job.



I don't know how unhappy they really are. Perhaps they don't even know themselves. Perhaps more stressed and frustrated than unhappy IMO.
So far they have only had a genuine day to day life about now.
I'm sure he could find something else to do and perhaps he wanted/planned to?



You may very well nail it there.

It doesn't sound like he was a very successful farmer, though. And perhaps - the RF pressured him to take this attache job, because he was seen as dawdling around doing nothing much.. but he didn't like it much and his wife likes it even less.

 

[Muhler]

Well, an assistant/deputy attaché has been appointed to assist him.

Advisor, assistant - and adjutant. Both a Prince and a brigadier needs an adjutant.

It doesn't sound like he was a very successful farmer, though. And perhaps - the RF pressured him to take this attache job, because he was seen as dawdling around doing nothing much.. but he didn't like it much and his wife likes it even less.

Not being very successful and dawdling around about is very much in the eyes of the beholder. It's a description I do not agree with though.
People can work hard and still fail.

And at present the RF consists pretty much of QMII, I doubt Frederik would have been directly involved in employing his brother.
I believe QMII genuinely felt this would be the ideal job and life for J&M.

Perhaps QMII should invite her sons and daughters-in-law over more often for a cup and coffee and listen a little more?
Perhaps she would have realized that while she would probably have loved to be a diplomat's wife in Paris of all places for a few years, that might not be the case with her youngest son and his wife.
- Just a thought.

I firmly believe royals are human beings and sometimes they think, feel and react just as irrational, spoiled and unwise as everybody else.
That's why we can relate to them and that's what makes them interesting.

 

[Nordic]

Advisor, assistant - and adjutant. Both a Prince and a brigadier needs an adjutant.
.

https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/prins-joachim-faar-fuldtidsstilling-som-forsvarsattache-i-paris

"Der vil som noget nyt også blive udpeget en assisterende forsvarsattaché til at bistå prins Joachim"

"As something new, an assistant defense attaché will also be appointed to assist Prince Joachim"

Is "assistant defense attaché" the same as an adjutant then, if this is only the second embassy to have one and the title is "assisterende forsvarsattaché"?

 

[kalnel]

I have to laugh reading this thread. It was just a few months ago that people were claiming that Joachim and Marie were abandoning Denmark, so he could take a pointless military course in France. People were complaining that he is lazy and doesn't deserve his appanage.

Now, after Joachim's health crisis and a casual comment by Marie, the view has turned completely. They were forced out of a Denmark, and he has been diligently preparing for a very difficult job, not shirking his duty.

Who knows what the behind-the-scenes story is? We don't even know the full context of Marie's comments, apart from that they came in an unscheduled encounter with a reporter as they were walking down a street in France.

People (and the media) ought to take a breath and focus on the happy news that he came through a life-threatening medical drama in good shape. Whether Joachim is serving Denmark at home or through his job in France, his commitment to duty is admirable.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

It seems that it is mostly Marie who is frustrated by this (longer) assignment in Paris. While Joachim emphasizes that he hadn't heard about the course but that it was really worthwhile and this new posting was a great place to put what he had learned AND his acquired contacts to good use - even though he hadn't had the desire to move to Paris previously, Marie was stressing that it was 'really important' to understand that it wasn't their decision; that she wasn't happy about being a housewife taking care of her husband and children and thought it was time for her now... and that she much rather wanted to be in Denmark.

So, either Joachim is much more diplomatic or he is quite fine with how things turned out; he might have enjoyed the course (after all he is a military men; it isn't for no reason that he hoped his sons would follow in his footsteps) and is/was probably also looking forward to his new post that is a great fit for him - and it's great that his younger children spend a few years in France becoming fluent in the language and understanding their 'other' cultural background - next to the Danish one.

And I understand her frustration. I just don't understand the way they have decided to voice and/or frame it.

Sorry, Joachim could not decline the course nor the job as attache.

I have already explained why he couldn't decline the course.
And as for the job. The Danish (and French) military is not going to waste an expensive course on Joachim only for him to say: That sure was interesting! Now, I'm going back to my old desk-job.
Not unless he wants his next job to be a three year assignment to an igloo 200 km north of the Thule Base counting icebergs.
Followed by a job running the Office for Discarded Sandbags.

Saying no, would mean public scorn,
Most annoyed superiors in the military.
Losing face. He would be looked down upon by everyone in the military. Not least those who have served abroad. (Pretty much everybody.)
Having his fellow officers reproach him for ruining their opportunities to attend that course in the future.
And it's goodbye to his military career.

You said that he couldn't turn down a job he's specifically trained for. Does the course he undertook at École Militaire make him qualified? Yes, but it isn't required to become a military attaché in France. If Joachim had turned it down, one of the 5 people who applied for and actually wanted the job would've gotten it.

The MoD itself has confirmed that they weren't aware of the interest from the DRF until some time into the application process which implies that Joachim wasn't a part of their plans to begin with. However, even if he had been, there's no way J&M wouldn't have been informed about it which would beg the question, why voice your dissatisfaction publicly now if deployment has been the expectation from the beginning. Why not when they were sent to France in the first place? Why not when they were questioned about the apanage last year?

The suggestion that Joachim's military career would somehow be over for turning down one (1) job offer sounds absolutely preposterous to me and should that truly be the case, the state of our military is even worse than I thought, but hey, I'm not in the military so I'm not qualified to contest that. Although I would still argue that he wouldn't offend anyone by turning the position down that they haven't now offended with this interview. As for "public scorn"? ? If he'd declined the job as an attaché, the public wouldn't even know that position had been offered to him.

I think it's slightly misleading that you present your own speculations as facts. Because Joachim could have declined the position. You even say as much yourself by not listing anything that would've prevented him from declining the offer in practice.

 

[Muhler]

https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/prins-joachim-faar-fuldtidsstilling-som-forsvarsattache-i-paris

"Der vil som noget nyt også blive udpeget en assisterende forsvarsattaché til at bistå prins Joachim"

"As something new, an assistant defense attaché will also be appointed to assist Prince Joachim"

Is "assistant defense attaché" the same as an adjutant then, if this is only the second embassy to have one and the title is "assisterende forsvarsattaché"?

No, but the assistant can function as an adjutant.
It happens from time to time.

Some years ago, a member of the DRF visited the NATO HQ IIRC.
There a high ranking officers found himself drafted as an adjutant. He had put his adjutants cord on his left shoulder (as an ordinary adjutant), rather than the right shoulder as is correct when it's the head of state or a member of the DRF.
There will be times when Joachim will take part in ceremonies (14th July for example) where it would be normal and appropriate for a brigadier (and Prince) to be accompanied by an adjutant. (The most convenient being his assistant.)

 

[Minister of Court]

All this mindless speculation...

 

[Nordic]

No, but the assistant can function as an adjutant.
It happens from time to time.

Thanks, that's what I thought it said. Joachim is the defense attaché but there's also an assistant defense attaché. Two to do the job.

 

[Muhler]

And I understand her frustration. I just don't understand the way they have decided to voice and/or frame it.



You said that he couldn't turn down a job he's specifically trained for. Does the course he undertook at École Militaire make him qualified? Yes, but it isn't required to become a military attaché in France. If Joachim had turned it down, one of the 5 people who applied for and actually wanted the job would've gotten it.

The MoD itself has confirmed that they weren't aware of the interest from the DRF until some time into the application process which implies that Joachim wasn't a part of their plans to begin with. However, even if he had been, there's no way J&M wouldn't have been informed about it which would beg the question, why voice your dissatisfaction publicly now if deployment has been the expectation from the beginning. Why not when they were sent to France in the first place? Why not when they were questioned about the apanage last year?

The suggestion that Joachim's military career would somehow be over for turning down one (1) job offer sounds absolutely preposterous to me and should that truly be the case, the state of our military is even worse than I thought, but hey, I'm not in the military so I'm not qualified to contest that. Although I would still argue that he wouldn't offend anyone by turning the position down that they haven't now offended with this interview. As for "public scorn"? ? If he'd declined the job as an attaché, the public wouldn't even know that position had been offered to him.

I think it's slightly misleading that you present your own speculations as facts. Because Joachim could have declined the position. You even say as much yourself by not listing anything that would've prevented him from declining the offer in practice.

I think I have on several occasions indicated that it is my opinion I'm stating and not being able to look into the heads of QMII; J&M, the top brass in the military, it can hardly be much more than speculations - which I have stated several times as well.
As such I have offered a number explanations in answer to a number of questions that have been raised.

And you are quite right, you are not in the military, nor have you ever been in the military. I have however. So there are a number of things regarding the mindset of career soldiers where I believe I can speak with some authority.
You are of course free to dismiss all the arguments I have presented as preposterous and even laughable. - I do not find that surprising at all.

I do not recall having read that the Ministry of Defense was ignorant of Joachim's candidacy. As far as I understand Joachim was approached by the Ministry of Defense. But perhaps your mean the Defense Command?

If you as a colonel turn down a posting that has been pretty much tailor made for you, without a very good reason. You won't get a second chance.
And that's just not the military that applies for.
I doubt very much you will buy that, so be it. I will not waste time repeating ad nauseam the same reasoning over and over and over again.

I do not share your opinion that the public would have remained ignorant that Joachim had been offered this posting, should ha have declined. Nor am I under any illusion at to what angling some papers in particular and certain segments of the population in general would have thought about that. - Words like workshy and inept springs to mind.

 

[Kataryn]

I think I have on several occasions indicated that it is my opinion I'm stating and not being able to look into the heads of QMII; J&M, the top brass in the military, it can hardly be much more than speculations - which I have stated several times as well.
As such I have offered a number explanations in answer to a number of questions that have been raised.

And you are quite right, you are not in the military, nor have you ever been in the military. I have however. So there are a number of things regarding the mindset of career soldiers where I believe I can speak with some authority.
You are of course free to dismiss all the arguments I have presented as preposterous and even laughable. - I do not find that surprising at all.

I do not recall having read that the Ministry of Defense was ignorant of Joachim's candidacy. As far as I understand Joachim was approached by the Ministry of Defense. But perhaps your mean the Defense Command?

If you as a colonel turn down a posting that has been pretty much tailor made for you, without a very good reason. You won't get a second chance.
And that's just not the military that applies for.
I doubt very much you will buy that, so be it. I will not waste time repeating ad nauseam the same reasoning over and over and over again.

I do not share your opinion that the public would have remained ignorant that Joachim had been offered this posting, should ha have declined. Nor am I under any illusion at to what angling some papers in particular and certain segments of the population in general would have thought about that. - Words like workshy and inept springs to mind.

And we should not forget that Joachim was raised by a stern father to respect his mother as his souverain. That would be another point against him saying no to the position. However he thought personally about it.

 

[Helen.CH]

And I understand her frustration. I just don't understand the way they have decided to voice and/or frame it.



You said that he couldn't turn down a job he's specifically trained for. Does the course he undertook at École Militaire make him qualified? Yes, but it isn't required to become a military attaché in France. If Joachim had turned it down, one of the 5 people who applied for and actually wanted the job would've gotten it.

The MoD itself has confirmed that they weren't aware of the interest from the DRF until some time into the application process which implies that Joachim wasn't a part of their plans to begin with. However, even if he had been, there's no way J&M wouldn't have been informed about it which would beg the question, why voice your dissatisfaction publicly now if deployment has been the expectation from the beginning. Why not when they were sent to France in the first place? Why not when they were questioned about the apanage last year?

The suggestion that Joachim's military career would somehow be over for turning down one (1) job offer sounds absolutely preposterous to me and should that truly be the case, the state of our military is even worse than I thought, but hey, I'm not in the military so I'm not qualified to contest that. Although I would still argue that he wouldn't offend anyone by turning the position down that they haven't now offended with this interview. As for "public scorn"? ? If he'd declined the job as an attaché, the public wouldn't even know that position had been offered to him.

I think it's slightly misleading that you present your own speculations as facts. Because Joachim could have declined the position. You even say as much yourself by not listing anything that would've prevented him from declining the offer in practice.

I do not think anybody presents his/her personal opinion as facts here, as we all do not know and all is left to speculation somehow.
I do agree that J. had hardly a possibility to turn down that job once he accepted to do the course of which he himself said that he and hardly anybody had known is existing. Maybe the public had not known he was offered the job but his family, the court, the fellow soldiers...? enough to loose.
I do not know enough about his training that far, but it seems obvious that without the course he would have had no qualification at all to get the job.
We do not know if J. knew the job was going to follow, maybe this is why they or better she is complaining now, who knows? Maybe he felt honoured being invited to that course, maybe he did not realise it was part of a plan?
There are worse situations than being privileged like J&M and they will come over it and serving your country is not always as comfortable as the two had it in the past.
anyway time will tell, if he can start the job, it takes time to recover and could be a good if not only excuse to get away from it ;-)

 

[polyesco]

Alexandra gave a statement on Joachims recovery. Hr was able to call his sons after the operation.
https://herognu.dk/efter-joachims-blodprop-nu-taler-alexandra/

 

[Frelinghighness]

One thing is for sure, Marie should have kept her mouth shut and neither one of them should have responded to the tabloid reporter without going through the usual channels. However, it seems to me that Marie wanted to “set the record straight” and declare that she wasn’t the bad guy dragging her husband to Paris that many presumed because of her french heritage. Royals really can’t publicly complain, just to other royals imo. Especially now when there are so many sick and unemployed, she comes across as very spoiled. My question is, did this interview appear before Joachim‘s health event? I can’t help think that this faux pas by Marie, or at least the happiness of Marie could’ve contributed to joachim’s stress level and possibly his condition

 

[Somebody]

One thing is for sure, Marie should have kept her mouth shut and neither one of them should have responded to the tabloid reporter without going through the usual channels. However, it seems to me that Marie wanted to “set the record straight” and declare that she wasn’t the bad guy dragging her husband to Paris that many presumed because of her french heritage. Royals really can’t publicly complain, just to other royals imo. Especially now when there are so many sick and unemployed, she comes across as very spoiled. My question is, did this interview appear before Joachim‘s health event? I can’t help think that this faux pas by Marie, or at least the happiness of Marie could’ve contributed to joachim’s stress level and possibly his condition

Yes, it did. There were apparently two interviews (one French one Danish) in the week prior; one was a few hours prior Joachim being admitted to hospital. Not sure which one was when.