General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 5: September 2019 - December 2020

[Muhler]

Your confusion is perfectly understandable. There was also a French interview, but the nuances of that is something I will leave to others. ?

 

[ricarda]

Did she received in Denmark a lot of the late Prince Henrik Patronages ?
Who took them over ??

On 2nd May 2019 it was announced that she took over 2 patronages and 1 Honorary Presidency. All are related to France.
- Alliance Francaise i Denmark
- Le Souvenir Francais

- Den Danske Sektion på Lycée International

H.K.H. Prinsesse Marie påtager sig to nye protektioner og et nyt æreshverv | Kongehuset

While Henrik was still alive (22 Nov 2013) Marie took over as patron of The Danish Epilepsy Association and of the Kattegatcenter.

Other patronages were taken over by the Crown Prince (Red Cross, Danish-Chinese Business Forum,The Danish Hunters' Association, The Copenhagen Boys' Choir) and the Crown Princess (Copenhagen Zoo, WWF). And AFAIR one by Joachim (Historical Society for Orders and Medals).

 

[Alisa]

The interview confirmed what I have longed believed. I have always had the gut feeling and supported impression that the family was basically forced out of Denmark.
It never made sense how Joachim a self-professed farmer got this prestigious military job. A military (especially one that uproots his family) job is not something he would have voluntarily chose for himself.

Moreover, I recall there being a few key family events that the family surprisingly not return to Denmark for.

I dare say there is something rotten in the state of Denmark. This interview is starting lift the lid on it.

 

[Denville]

Why would they be force-out of Denmark? It seems as if Joachim didn't make a success of farming.. albeit it seems odd then to push him into a military job that someone else could do as well.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Well, if Marie is not lying the only conclusion is that they were forced out. If there were forced out, the decision was either sanctioned or taken by Margrethe. The invitation to France came from the highest level. There are many reasons, relationships within the family, Denmark too crowded for 2 princely families, Joachim wanting to do more but not allowed to overshadow Frederik, Joachim not wanting to do more for the apanage he gets, the wish to set him on a proper career path until retirement, any other suggestions?

 

[suztav]

I think "forced out" is a bit dramatic. Perhaps Joachim and Marie want to pursue a life similar to Constantijn and Laurentien in The Netherlands where they support the Crown, but also have their own private life and career.

Of course, the media prefers a much more dramatic story

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I think "forced out" is a bit dramatic. Perhaps Joachim and Marie want to pursue a life similar to Constantijn and Laurentien in The Netherlands where they support the Crown, but also have their own private life and career.

Of course, the media prefers a much more dramatic story

I believe the posters in this thread are expressing their own interpretations of the direct quotations from Prince Joachim and Princess Marie, not the media's.

 

[Muhler]

I think "forced out" is a bit dramatic. Perhaps Joachim and Marie want to pursue a life similar to Constantijn and Laurentien in The Netherlands where they support the Crown, but also have their own private life and career.

Of course, the media prefers a much more dramatic story

Agree. Let's not make it more dramatic than it is. The tabloids will do that for us.

IMO Joachim simply got an offer he could not refuse. Not without losing face and embarrassing QMII, the Defense Command (who I'm sure worked behind the scenes to secure his place on the staff course) the military and the country.

There was plenty of room for both M&F and J&M.
Not least because J&M had IMO in increasingly lesser role, partly because they did no longer take on so many events and partly because that's how it is.
But Joachim had found a nice little niche for himself and had a personal and public victory with that. I.e. making documentaries - while our Marie could still focus on her protections
All the while M&F remained the royal superstars.

So at present I no longer believe J&M will extend their stay in France (or elsewhere) for a minute more than the three years they are to be stationed in Paris.
Of course they may end up liking the life in the diplomatic corps and see things differently in three years. Who knows?
But right now I'm sure it's a duty and no more than that!

However, what will they do once the three-year period is up?
In three years both their children will still go to school and if they have settled there, J&M may consider prolonging their stay in France for the sake of the children. Because in about five years Henrik will start in high school.
But if they decide not to extend their stay in Paris, Joachim's experiences will be sought after and he will IMO most likely ensure himself a position at the Defense Command or the Defense Academy as an expert. - And be promoted to major general.
However, after three-five years in DK, he is likely to be stationed abroad again.
By then he will be in his mid to late fifties and may decide to resign in order to focus on making documentaries. Having perhaps a side-job as a consultant for the military.

That's what my crystal ball tells me.
But, as we all know, it's difficult to make predictions. Especially about the future...

 

[Heavs]

I know Denmark isn't huge but surely there's room for two adult Princes and their wives? Especially as Joachim did seem to have found a suitable niche that he did well at but didn't take away from the Crown Prince Couple.

Unless there are serious behind the scenes feuds I suppose. And if we asked the "other side" then there would probably be a very different interpretation as always.

Maybe the Queen felt that this would be an amazing opportunity for the family and add some extra official lustre to Joachim? And being a very strong personality as well as Queen they felt unable to say no? However they are both still adults and if they really didn't want this they should have said no, we're living our lives here.

 

[Nordic]

Agree. Let's not make it more dramatic than it is. The tabloids will do that for us.

IMO Joachim simply got an offer he could not refuse. Not without losing face and embarrassing QMII, the Defense Command (who I'm sure worked behind the scenes to secure his place on the staff course) the military and the country.

There was plenty of room for both M&F and J&M.
.

Perhaps this is a case of Marie thinking they would spend a year in Paris, return to her normal life, Joachim would get a great job in Denmark with the possible occasional visit abroad and then Joachim was offered the job for 3 years. I still say he shouldn't have taken the job if he/they didn't want to do it. There were other applicants.

There has always been room for both couples. J&M could have continued to work for Queen and country x amount of time and the CPC is the CPC. They do have obligations and events that J&M don't have. I'm sure that is the same in other monarchies.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Agree. Let's not make it more dramatic than it is. The tabloids will do that for us.

IMO Joachim simply got an offer he could not refuse. Not without losing face and embarrassing QMII, the Defense Command (who I'm sure worked behind the scenes to secure his place on the staff course) the military and the country.

I agree, but who is behind this offer if he didn't really want it? At this level (Margrethe, Macron) there are usually no offers that are not happily accepted by everybody involved, at least you don't say in an interview that it was not your decision or you were thrown into it, I recall that Joachim said earlier that he was strongly encouraged (= forced) to accept the military training job.

So it's clear that there is speculation about palace intrigue, obviously Marie is not good at hiding her anger.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

I wonder what they think they'll gain from running to the tabloids with this?

And if they felt they must speak to the press about something they probably should've taken privately with QMII, surely they could've landed an interview with a respectable newspaper instead of a tabloid. Their choice of publication just adds to the slightly tacky nature of complaining about being handed a supposedly very prestigious course and position – the latter for which there were several applicants who actually wanted the job – in the middle of a global economic crisis nonetheless.

I disagree with the argument that their prolonged stay in France was inevitable once Joachim was invited to join the course. Maybe he felt obligated to undertake course itself (but they also didn't seem to mind the one year abroad a year ago), but the position of defence attaché was not created for Joachim nor was it the automatic next step after having undertaken the course. The DRF actively showed interest which prompted the MoD to halt the already ongoing application process. Nothing prevented Joachim from opposing that interest. Or are J&M insinuating that they weren't consulted before the position was given to him? That makes no sense.

However, I don't blame Marie for being fed up. Joachim's new position does leave her in a form of limbo because while he actually has stuff to do in Paris, she'll have to travel back and forth to be able to do her job which is a tiring situation to be in (but not impossible – and she'd definitely be able to do more than the 16 engagements she tallied during her first year in France). It also leaves her more vulnerable to criticism in the future and reading the interview, I wondered if that's what they're trying to nip in the bud by saying "hey, this wasn't Marie's ideal choice".

But the way they go about it is just not sustainable. Like, do they feel they gain more from taking the job and voicing their discontent to the press than they would have from taking responsibility for their own lives and firmly making it known that this is not what they want?

 

[MsJulie]

Has anyone else noticed it is the ‘spares’ or other siblings that have left their home Nation/Countries with their families to find a life\career?

From the time theses ‘spares’ were old enough through training and age, they helped the Monarch, their parent(s) represent their Nations/Country. As the Heir came to marry, the spouse was to step up to the plate and help represent the Nation/Country. Have children. All of a sudden the ‘spare’ was no longer needed and was to step back pretty much right away. The ‘spare’ was no longer a ‘spare’.


Now what? They were trained to help, to represent their country, probably never trained to step back. Feelings would be hurt because of behind the scene comments and actions. They were only now used in an emergency. We the public did not and do not know what happened behind the scenes.

Joachim, Harry, Madeline.....how many more, the Grand Ducal Family had an issue until the heir was born, the Japanese Family has an issue as the government decided females would not be able to rule. How many other Royal Firms are going through this?

I am sure it was very hard for them to step back because all of a sudden, for what ever reason(s), the Monarchy/government wanted to trim back.

Example:
Even In Japan this happened but wait, a problem, the heir is a female. This cannot be so the Emperors brother is back in the picture as the heir....but if things were different he would not be. If the past Emperor had gotten the law changed the heir would have been a girl. Still for a time the current Emperors brother was out....I bet he felt the same as Joachim, Harry and Madeline plus others...until the law was not changed. The spare is the heir!

These spares knew they had to make a decision, move on and out. They cannot get a salary from the Crown unless on official business, but those jobs are fewer and fewer.

The ‘spares’ make a decision, criticized for leaving their home country, but there was no royal job for them to do anymore, a Military career was not correct because that would upstage the ‘heir’, a private career was not correct either. It would be claimed that someone gave the ‘spare’ special consideration. That is what the media and public would claim. No matter how qualified the ‘spare would be’ for any job, so the ‘spare’ moves on and out.

That’s not correct either. No right way for their future just all wrong.

No matter where the ‘spares’ Were next in line or third, forth in line, all siblings would be wrong for the current generations. The last generation was the British Queen, where she made sure all her children had a Royal job. Other Queens of her age, because of their own rules or government rules, those children did not have a Royal job anymore.

Another example:
Queen Elizabeth did have all her children working and paid as royals, one of the last Monarchs to do so. Then comes the next generation and the heir has children and it all changes....and this is in other countries to.....to bad Harry could not have stayed in the military, but he would have upstaged his brother who could not continue to fly...he was the heir and it was too dangerous. Kate comes along, she is shy at first and as she is in the Firm long enough she is more confident....Harry is invited along as a spare but his days are numbered. He knows it and goes his way...it is all wrong. You can see in many pictures Harry’s face tell a lot....he is there a third wheel now, no longer the spare.

I guess Dad the heir (Charles), brother the heir (William), and the Queen were to pick out exactly what Harry was allowed to do and marry. His every move was to be chosen for him but a very limited Royal role. No matter what Harry would do he would be in the spotlight....he is very popular. Someone(s) did not like that at all. No one figured Harry would fall in love without the help of his family. No matter who it was, if it was not a perfect British girl, who would take a back seat, picked out by the family, anyone Harry found would be wrong. Two ladies already said the Firm was too much.

I am using England as an example....but it has happened in other Royal Families.

I was surprised by Joachim and Marie and family moving to another country. Then I remembered reading on a forum here, that there was friction between the brothers that increased. It was worse after their dad passed away.

I can see where Marie is coming from, where Megan is coming from....Madeline is somehow lucky....it is quiet at her end. What about the others? Too much has been hidden and covered up. If the different Firms, aka Royal Families and government, do not want the ‘spares’ to have Royal jobs because they do not want to pay them, then say so upfront. Let the ‘spares’ find their own way in life. The Different Firms and governments cannot have it their way only.

I hope Joachim gets better, can work at his job where he wants too. Marie and his family can settle down. I hope Harry and Megan find peace and a place to call home. Madeline has found a home in the US....I hope she and her family are happy.....and all the rest of the ‘spares’, seconds, thirds, find a peaceful adult life. They were only needed until the heirs has their own children and then ‘spares are no longer needed. Boy, oh boy, did the Royal Firms mess up.

I no most if not all will not agree with me. That’s okay. You have given your options. This is MOOO just as you all have yours.

 

[polyesco]

...

But the way they go about it is just not sustainable. Like, do they feel they gain more from taking the job and voicing their discontent to the press than they would have from taking responsibility for their own lives and firmly making it known that this is not what they want?

This! Agree with your whole post (especially this part).

For me there was no need for Marie's comments.
If Joachim took this job without consideration to Marie's opinions, then that's a discussion between the two. Privately in their marriage. Cause at 51, Joachim should have given a firm no, but he didnt.

Now life has given the family a huge curveball with his illness. I hope a speedy recovery and wish the family lots of strength.

And I dont see his relationship with Frederik as the issue. I dont see a competition between the two couples.

 

[Muhler]

I wonder what they think they'll gain from running to the tabloids with this?

And if they felt they must speak to the press about something they probably should've taken privately with QMII, surely they could've landed an interview with a respectable newspaper instead of a tabloid. Their choice of publication just adds to the slightly tacky nature of complaining about being handed a supposedly very prestigious course and position – the latter for which there were several applicants who actually wanted the job – in the middle of a global economic crisis nonetheless.

I disagree with the argument that their prolonged stay in France was inevitable once Joachim was invited to join the course. Maybe he felt obligated to undertake course itself (but they also didn't seem to mind the one year abroad a year ago), but the position of defence attaché was not created for Joachim nor was it the automatic next step after having undertaken the course. The DRF actively showed interest which prompted the MoD to halt the already ongoing application process. Nothing prevented Joachim from opposing that interest. Or are J&M insinuating that they weren't consulted before the position was given to him? That makes no sense.

However, I don't blame Marie for being fed up. Joachim's new position does leave her in a form of limbo because while he actually has stuff to do in Paris, she'll have to travel back and forth to be able to do her job which is a tiring situation to be in (but not impossible – and she'd definitely be able to do more than the 16 engagements she tallied during her first year in France). It also leaves her more vulnerable to criticism in the future and reading the interview, I wondered if that's what they're trying to nip in the bud by saying "hey, this wasn't Marie's ideal choice".

But the way they go about it is just not sustainable. Like, do they feel they gain more from taking the job and voicing their discontent to the press than they would have from taking responsibility for their own lives and firmly making it known that this is not what they want?

Speaking out doesn't benefit them - at all.
The best course of action, in the glaring light of hindsight, is to keep quiet.
But royals are humans too, and they feel too.

I believe our Marie simply said what she (and Joachim) feel.
And as for Joachim: You don't correct your wife. And you don't correct her at all when someone, especially a journalist, is listening. Period!
Perhaps even less so if you happen to agree wholeheartedly with your wife...

I don't believe there were plans to ship J&M out in any way.
Perhaps if they had been involved in a major scandal, but they haven't.

And there have been talks for years that Frederik and Joachim have fell out. They did actually have a distancing between them back when Joachim divorced Alexandra. They have both said so and you can read the quotes in the book Under the Beam. Since then they have both said repeatedly that they are fine.
Having said that. For those of us who have siblings, how many of us have the same relationships with our siblings as when we were children? How many of us even have a close relationship with our siblings now we are adults?
Joachim and Frederik don't wear out each other's doormats, but that doesn't prove they have a bad relationship. They sure don't wear out their mother's doormat either!
I simply cannot see Frederik wishing to oust his brother. There is no need for it and it would go against his nature, to the extent that we know him.
Joachim has not usurped his brother's position since Frederik got married and he separated from Alexandra. And that was only because J&A was the young glamorous couple before then - in particular Alexandra.

What I think is the most plausible chain of events is this:
Joachim sold Schackenborg and had to find something to do. The military being a logic and traditional solution.
QMII would have turned to her close advisors, most of them having a military background and able to pull strings.
So Joachim got a special job under the Defense Chief. His job involved assessing the Total Defense.
Of course high ranking officers within the military would have vetted Joachim. What can we use him for? You can't send a colonel without active experience out to command a battalion in Kosovo or Estonia, let alone Afghanistan or Syria! But you can't have him running around counting Home Guardsmen forever either, so what to do?
A liaison? A military-diplomatic position (that doesn't push other career officers aside preferably) - Hmm?
There is a growing military co-operation between DK and France (and indirectly EU (DK is not a part of EU's military co-operation) and Joachim could fit in there. He is ½ French. Has a French wife. Speaks fluent French. Is a Francophile. Has experience in diplomacy (Hong Kong and royal duties) and in military staff duty and he ain't stupid. And he has high enough status to emphasize the significance DK puts in the cooperation between DK and France. - So I can very well imagine some talks behind the scenes with the French being informed that "we have just the right guy as liaison. And the French responding: We have just the right course for your man.
Result: President Macron extends an invitation for Joachim to QMII, which she happily accepts. Believing this is the perfect job for J&M. - Having forgotten to ask J&M and really having little idea how modern parents raise their children.

The military don't care about Marie feeling at home in DK. They don't care about Joachim perhaps finding documentaries much more interesting. They don't care about Henrik and Athena being dragged out of their school in DK. They just want to find the best man for a specific job.

Joachim could not turn down this offer. No way.
That would be an insult to the French President. To France and an embarrassment to those who secured this behind the scenes, let alone his mother. Not to mention that such an invitation would likely not be extended again to other Danish officers.
I can't say what impression Joachim made at this course, but if he made a good impression, it is likely that other Danish officers will be invited.
Joachim couldn't ruin that.
And if he really had turned down it down, how do you think the public reaction would be? Because of course it would have been leaked. And he would have faced a good deal of annoyance within the military. Deservedly so IMO.
If Queen and Country needs you, you go. That's how it works in the military, that's how Joachim was brought up.
J&M were checkmate.

The argument about other candidates applying is seen often. But all vacant jobs within the state, municipalities and regions must be announced. Even if the job is already taken. And most of the time it is.
Joachim would have had to apply in writing when he was offered the job, but all had to write would have been: I hereby apply for the position as defense attache in Paris.
It's a formality. Both my wife and I have filled out applications that way and got the job.

Well, I don't think there is much more I can add to this discussion. Except that I hope they will settle in in France after all and that it will be happy years there.
And like I have said before: It isn't worse for them than for other military families.

Some of you will disagree with me and so be it, I just tend to think that the less dramatic explanation is often the most plausible.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Right, but my question is: Why actively choose to accept a job you supposedly aren't interested in only to mope about it to the press when instead, you could've just declined the job?

If the argument is that Joachim felt it would be unbeseeming to decline, that seems redundant when they then choose to publicly throw not only the job – for which there were applicants who actually wanted it – but also QMII under the bus. I'd consider that just as – if not more – unbeseeming.

As I said in the post you quote, he may well have felt obligated to undertake the course but that doesn't mean he couldn't have told QMII/the court/whoever pushed that he wasn't interested in being given the defence attaché job. No one would've taken offence with that – it isn't a position that was created for Joachim, it isn't a position he was expected to take on and if he'd declined, it most likely wouldn't even have become public knowledge that someone had considered him for the position.

Regarding the other candidates, all positions may have to be advertised but it was done so way before the MoD were aware of the DRF's interest and Joachim never formally applied. That much was confirmed when the subject of his continued apanage was to be approved in the parliament:

"Extraordinarily we can inform that there were 5 applicants and that Prince Joachim wasn't one of them (...) When it became an opportunity that Prince Joachim could hold the position, the ongoing process of advertising and interviewing for the position was put on hold."

 

[Muhler]

Stress? Frustrations being vented? Talking before thinking?
People sometimes - well often - say things they should better have kept to themselves.
It's human.
And often we have a tendency to see things exclusively from our own perspective. There are entire and very active threads devoted to this phenomenon here on TRF.

I'm not making excuses for J&M saying what they did, I'm merely trying to understand and offer explanations.

A likely explanation is that Joachim didn't know that he would be offered the job as attache, when he started the course, but that it was brought up when it was realized that he was able to follow and complete the course. Whatever, he could not have turned down a job that he was specially prepared for. Forget it. Doesn't work that way. No option.
What does seem likely however, is that J&M feel they had little influence (and little choice) in all this.
Well, that's the military for you.

Joachim could just as well have been send to Afghanistan to do a tour of duty.
If they somehow hoped Joachim would have remained in DK for the rest of his career, that would have been... let's say, wishful thinking. The Danish military simply isn't large enough for officers to stay at home all their career.

As for candidates. If you headhunt (or in this case perhaps shanghai ) someone else that you prefer, all other applications are torn up.
Happens all the time.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

I'm not questioning why they're speaking to the tabloids per se (this isn't the first time and it probably won't be the last), my question is why they'd accept the job but then go on to complain about it in the tabloids when they had every opportunity to just decline the offer and 3+ years more in France?

As I mentioned in my post above, it's not that I don't understand Marie's frustrations, it's that it doesn't make sense that they didn't just decline the position to begin with. He could absolutely say no to the attaché job, let's not bend over backwards here. The course didn't come with an expectation that Joachim would take over this position but if it had, there's no way Joachim wouldn't have been informed of this.

Regardless, they wouldn't have let anyone down by declining that they haven't subsequently let down with this interview.

On the candidates: It seems he wasn't headhunted as the MoD specifically mentions that it wasn't until later in the process that they became aware of the DRF's interest. That's pedantic anyway because it doesn't change my point which is that there were 5 other candidates who'd actively sought the position.

 

[gerry]

I know Denmark isn't huge but surely there's room for two adult Princes and their wives? Especially as Joachim did seem to have found a suitable niche that he did well at but didn't take away from the Crown Prince Couple.

Unless there are serious behind the scenes feuds I suppose. And if we asked the "other side" then there would probably be a very different interpretation as always.

Maybe the Queen felt that this would be an amazing opportunity for the family and add some extra official lustre to Joachim? And being a very strong personality as well as Queen they felt unable to say no? However they are both still adults and if they really didn't want this they should have said no, we're living our lives here.

At the risk of provoking a comment cacophony, a gentle sigh of regret from this DRF reader that something similarly civilized could not have been organized for our prince Harry and his Meghan. One does wonder if other second princely sons have been reaching out to their troubled British cousin.....

 

[Somebody]

I'm not questioning why they're speaking to the tabloids per se (this isn't the first time and it probably won't be the last), my question is why they'd accept the job but then go on to complain about it in the tabloids when they had every opportunity to just decline the offer and 3+ years more in France?

As I mentioned in my post above, it's not that I don't understand Marie's frustrations, it's that it doesn't make sense that they didn't just decline the position to begin with. He could absolutely say no to the attaché job, let's not bend over backwards here. The course didn't come with an expectation that Joachim would take over this position but if it had, there's no way Joachim wouldn't have been informed of this.

Regardless, they wouldn't have let anyone down by declining that they haven't subsequently let down with this interview.

On the candidates: It seems he wasn't headhunted as the MoD specifically mentions that it wasn't until later in the process that they became aware of the DRF's interest. That's pedantic anyway because it doesn't change my point which is that there were 5 other candidates who'd actively sought the position.

It seems that it is mostly Marie who is frustrated by this (longer) assignment in Paris. While Joachim emphasizes that he hadn't heard about the course but that it was really worthwhile and this new posting was a great place to put what he had learned AND his acquired contacts to good use - even though he hadn't had the desire to move to Paris previously, Marie was stressing that it was 'really important' to understand that it wasn't their decision; that she wasn't happy about being a housewife taking care of her husband and children and thought it was time for her now... and that she much rather wanted to be in Denmark.

So, either Joachim is much more diplomatic or he is quite fine with how things turned out; he might have enjoyed the course (after all he is a military men; it isn't for no reason that he hoped his sons would follow in his footsteps) and is/was probably also looking forward to his new post that is a great fit for him - and it's great that his younger children spend a few years in France becoming fluent in the language and understanding their 'other' cultural background - next to the Danish one.

 

[Muhler]

As I mentioned in my post above, it's not that I don't understand Marie's frustrations, it's that it doesn't make sense that they didn't just decline the position to begin with. He could absolutely say no to the attaché job, let's not bend over backwards here. The course didn't come with an expectation that Joachim would take over this position but if it had, there's no way Joachim wouldn't have been informed of this.

Somebody's suggestion sounds plausible to me.

Sorry, Joachim could not decline the course nor the job as attache.

I have already explained why he couldn't decline the course.
And as for the job. The Danish (and French) military is not going to waste an expensive course on Joachim only for him to say: That sure was interesting! Now, I'm going back to my old desk-job.
Not unless he wants his next job to be a three year assignment to an igloo 200 km north of the Thule Base counting icebergs.
Followed by a job running the Office for Discarded Sandbags.

Saying no, would mean public scorn,
Most annoyed superiors in the military.
Losing face. He would be looked down upon by everyone in the military. Not least those who have served abroad. (Pretty much everybody.)
Having his fellow officers reproach him for ruining their opportunities to attend that course in the future.
And it's goodbye to his military career.

 

[Denville]

Stress? Frustrations being vented? Talking before thinking?


A likely explanation is that Joachim didn't know that he would be offered the job as attache, when he started the course, but that it was brought up when it was realized that he was able to follow and complete the course. Whatever, he could not have turned down a job that he was specially prepared for. Forget it. Doesn't work that way. No option.
What does seem likely however, is that J&M feel they had little influence (and little choice) in all this.
Well, that's the military for you.

Joachim could just as well have been send to Afghanistan to do a tour of duty.
If they somehow hoped Joachim would have remained in DK for the rest of his career, that would have been... let's say, wishful thinking. The Danish military simply isn't large enough for officers to stay at home all their career.

As for candidates. If you headhunt (or in this case perhaps shanghai ) someone else that you prefer, all other applications are torn up.
Happens all the time.

why? I dont see why he could not turn it down if he really wasn't happy with doing it. Better to turn it down, than to take it, keep out other applicants who might have been better at the job.. and complain about it in the press.
And indeed, why join the army if he didn't want some foreign postings?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Exactly, and Paris is for sure easier than Mali, from a family perspective. Maybe Marie should think twice before speaking out loud, especially when thinking about who pays their bills, you don't bite the hand who is feeding you.

 

[Denville]

Exactly, and Paris is for sure easier than Mali, from a family perspective. Maybe Marie should think twice before speaking out loud, especially when thinking about who pays their bills, you don't bite the hand who is feeding you.

But why DId Joachim join the army, if he wasn't willing to be posted abroad? If he was a farmer years ago, why did he not stick at that? WHy go on courses and take a job which someone else could have done?

 

[maria-olivia]

We don't know if he will recover at 100 %

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Joachim, Harry, Madeline.....how many more, the Grand Ducal Family had an issue until the heir was born, the Japanese Family has an issue as the government decided females would not be able to rule. How many other Royal Firms are going through this?

I am sure it was very hard for them to step back because all of a sudden, for what ever reason(s), the Monarchy/government wanted to trim back.

Example:
Even In Japan this happened but wait, a problem, the heir is a female. This cannot be so the Emperors brother is back in the picture as the heir....but if things were different he would not be. If the past Emperor had gotten the law changed the heir would have been a girl. Still for a time the current Emperors brother was out....I bet he felt the same as Joachim, Harry and Madeline plus others...until the law was not changed. The spare is the heir!

These spares knew they had to make a decision, move on and out. They cannot get a salary from the Crown unless on official business, but those jobs are fewer and fewer.

I understand the point you are making, but I do not think it applies to these examples. Prince Joachim continues to work as a representative of his country in France, and there is every indication that Harry of Britain and Madeleine of Sweden would have been welcome to carry on as working royals. All adult members of the Japanese imperial family were or are working royals, and Fumihito would have been expected to carry on as such even if he had not fathered the next heir (his cousin Tomohito was refused permission to become a commoner, in spite of not being the son of a monarch).

At the risk of provoking a comment cacophony, a gentle sigh of regret from this DRF reader that something similarly civilized could not have been organized for our prince Harry and his Meghan. One does wonder if other second princely sons have been reaching out to their troubled British cousin.....

I see no reason why something similar could not have been organized for British Prince Harry, if that is what he had personally wanted.

 

[DuchessMia]

Harry wasn’t allowed to remain in the military, so a similar option wasn’t available to him.

I actually don’t understand what Joachim wants out of his life. From what I’m reading he wasn’t a good farmer/farm owner. That profession seemed “forced” on him. But has he shown, in the past, a passion for anything in particular? Posters make him seem like he’s been adrift for most of his adult life. Am I wrong?

 

[Muhler]

Harry wasn’t allowed to remain in the military, so a similar option wasn’t available to him.

I actually don’t understand what Joachim wants out of his life. From what I’m reading he wasn’t a good farmer/farm owner. That profession seemed “forced” on him. But has he shown, in the past, a passion for anything in particular? Posters make him seem like he’s been adrift for most of his adult life. Am I wrong?

Those are interesting questions.

Farming was forced on him. From childhood his future was clear. A stint in the military, then agricultural school before taking over a derelict manor.
Whether he was a good or bad farmer is anyone's guess. Personally I don't believe he was incompetent. Many other business owners have to give up. And he did modernize and increase the value of Schackenborg.

Is he a good soldier then?
Again anyone's guess. I believe he is a good staff officer, otherwise he wouldn't have been offered this course.

Okay, what is he good at?
I understand he has a talent for diplomacy.
He is a very good speaker.
He is a good racing driver and that is his passion.
He is a history buff.
He seemingly has a talent for narration.
He tried making documentaries and had a considerable success doing that, apparently developing a taste for trying again.

So making documentaries, presenting, representation, racing and explaining/lecturing (history in particular), being a narrator (radio and TV) are things he appears to be very good at.

ADDED:

As far as I recall he has never hinted at anything he would rather do than farming. - I.e. no dream about being a pilot or diver or doctor - that he has mentioned in public.

ADDED:

QMII would have been an archeologist.
PH would have been a pianist or remained a diplomat.
Frederik would likely have stayed in the Frogman Corps as a leading officer.

 

[DuchessMia]

Thanks, Muhler!

 

[tommy100]

Harry wasn’t allowed to remain in the military, so a similar option wasn’t available to him.

I actually don’t understand what Joachim wants out of his life. From what I’m reading he wasn’t a good farmer/farm owner. That profession seemed “forced” on him. But has he shown, in the past, a passion for anything in particular? Posters make him seem like he’s been adrift for most of his adult life. Am I wrong?

Wrong thread to get into it but, Harry was allowed to stay in the military, he chose not to take his next tour of duty which was a desk job (as it would be for any officer, everyone in the military has to take a "more boring" desk job as part of their career)

Its very uncomfortable that one pointed comment from Marie seems to expose so much unhappiness.