General News about Joachim, Marie and Family 2: August 2009 - January 2011

[sgl]

It sounds like she had a fun night out with her friends. Good for her! Several other princesses have been seen going out with their friends (Mette-Marit, Marie-Chantal, Victoria). Crown Princess Mary was photographed in Verbier going out with her friends last year, so this isn't something that is off limits for the Danish princesses.

 

[maria-olivia]

Marie will always remain a french middle-class young women . I miss Alexandra.

 

[isabelle 53]

Prince Joachim knows the customs and habits of the Danish court I suppose ...
if he allows Marie to go out with her friends is that he sees nothing wrong with that

 

[rylt11]

Going shopping or to a luncheon with women friends is one thing. Attending a formal gala with an escort is also in the same category. Going to a private party at someone's home is also acceptable, as are public events which are considered one's royal duties.

However, nightclubbing which will consist of drinking and or dancing in a public place, etc. with no husband around, is not where a royal princess should be. This is all my personal opinion, nothing to do with the royal Danish standards, or whatever Joachim may or may not allow.

I just think it's unbecoming for her to be there like that. He should be there or neither should be there.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Would you say the same for Prince Joachim and Prince Frederik?
Are they allowed to go to nightclubs without their wives?

 

[rylt11]

Yes. The other laissez-faire attitude sets precedents that may lead to difficulties later.

Far better to avoid what can become awkward later.

We've all read about Joaquim's issues with Alexandra. Hard to say who started what, or who did what, but it's best to stay away from trouble.

Earlier, when I stated that princesses should be with their husbands or families, I meant family escorts, not strictly their children.

To clarify the "yes." --- The same applies to Joachim and Frederik. No nightclubbing without spouse.

The reasons are obvious.

What conceivably be so important about being at a nightclub that the spouse isn't there. It isn't a summit meeting...

 

[Lumutqueen]

Well sorry, but your logic is stupid.
The reasons are obvious?
You think after 6 years of marriage, Prince Frederik is going to cheat on his wife in a nightclub?
You think Joachim is going to repeat whatever went wrong in his first marriage?
What if the spouse doesn't want to go out? Should the other be forced to stay at home, just because it is wrong to go out without your wife/husband.
You think very old-fashioned.

A wife/husband should be able to go out when he/she pleases without being accompanied by there other half. Next you'll tell me you think Marie should ask permission to go out.

 

[avrilo]

Going shopping or to a luncheon with women friends is one thing. Attending a formal gala with an escort is also in the same category. Going to a private party at someone's home is also acceptable, as are public events which are considered one's royal duties.

However, nightclubbing which will consist of drinking and or dancing in a public place, etc. with no husband around, is not where a royal princess should be. This is all my personal opinion, nothing to do with the royal Danish standards, or whatever Joachim may or may not allow.

I just think it's unbecoming for her to be there like that. He should be there or neither should be there.

OMG! I think first you are being stubborn and secondly What is this?! 1900?. I respect your thinking but I don't agree with it at all, and if it works for you and your life then great; but I really think that things are different for the most of us.

What is important in a nightclub? Have you been to one? HAVE FUN WITH YOUR FRIENDS in a place designed for that because that is part of life too, come on!!. Where in the wedding vows you vow. I shall go to everywhere with you????

Marie and any other married woman (or for that matter person) can go out without their husband to anywhere they please, what is wrong in that? are they behaving like "easy women" or what? I don't really follow you on that.

Joachim doesn't have to allow or not allow anything since she is not his car or his horse or anything of his property but his companion in life. the most he can do is suggest this and that since she is a Princess, but at the end of the day she has a mind of her own.

I highly doubt anyone thinks poorly of Marie, because she took a night off. At her age I bet she knows how to behave, not only as princess but also as a mature woman. However, she is still young and for what we can see working hard, between being a mum and a princess that she deserved a nice night out with the friends she has made in her new country.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Seriously, the idea that a woman, princess or otherwise, can't ever go anywhere with someone who isn't their husband is extremely Victorian in its sensibility. I sincerely doubt Marie is bringing shame to the house of Laborde de Monpezat by going out with some friends, one of whom is a gay man.

Yes, she's a Princess. Where though, in her transformation from Marie Cavallier to HRH Princess Marie of Denmark, did she sign a piece of paper that says "I will only ever be seen in public with my husband, other members of his family, or my children"? How many other princesses, though blood or marriage, have we seen out with friends....no hubby in sight? Better yet, how many princes have we seen, out with friends....no wife in sight?

Saying that Marie should only be out with her husband is akin to saying she's his property.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Marie will always remain a french middle-class young women . I miss Alexandra.

What's wrong with being middle-class? Should women who marry into royal families only come from money? Frankly, I think it's great that she's middle-class.....she brings a different set of experiences with her than if she came from money and/or entitlement.

 

[sgl]

I agree with you, Sister Morphine. She is not his property, she is his wife. This is 2010, and she is an adult. If she chooses to visit a nightclub, it is not illegal, nor is it against any sort of rules in the royal court. Everyone needs friends around them for their well-being.

None of us were at that club. Whether there was drinking and dancing is irrelevant, IMO. All we have seen are photos of Marie entering the club with her friends. Judging her behavior at the club is pure speculation.

If she was drinking and dancing-so what? It is 2010...she's an adult, and it is not illegal for her to do these things. Much ado about nothing, IMO.

 

[maria-olivia]

In mine opinion middle-class means without background , this has nothing to do with money!

 

[rylt11]

Of course she isn't his property, and this is 2010, but that doesn't keep people from making poor decisions. If you want to have an evening out with friends, far better to do it privately, not in a public night club.

Women, just like men, have every opportunity to make poor decisions, dress with poor taste, or do whatever they want as long as they aren't breaking the law.

Members of royal families have the same opportunities to make mistakes as anyone else. I just think she should have not done this. Period. Joaquim in a night club with men friends and no wife around would cause me to think the same.

Sorry if many in the forum find this old fashioned, but it's true that a nightclub is not a private club nor a private home, that liquor is normally served, and that many people go to them to meet others for a fun time.

I don't for one minute think that is what Marie was doing, but the atmosphere in nightclubs is certainly not the same as a private home or an official event.

Couldn't this same group be entertained elsewhere? Couldn't they have met elsewhere instead of publicly in the wide open view of the press, etc. Less than becoming, absolutely. I don't think the queen would have done the same.

 

[Sister Morphine]

In mine opinion middle-class means without background , this has nothing to do with money!

So then what is this background Marie is supposed to have that she doesn't, and why is she worse off for not having it? Is she supposed to be more educated? Are her parents supposed to be important or well-connected?

When I hear "middle-class", I think of someone in a solid, comfortable living....neither rich nor poor. Thinking that she should be anything but reeks of snobbery to me.

 

[Sister Morphine]

If she wants to spend time with her friends, she can't leave her home? She can't go to a restaurant or a club or a store or any place public, since she's not with Joachim?

What?

Why don't you just put a chain around her ankle and stick her in a cage until Joachim has to go somewhere and needs an escort. Because that's essentially what you're advocating and it's kind of degrading. The idea that Marie can't leave her home to see friends, lest she been somewhere by a person with a camera, regardless of what it is she's doing or who she's with, is just.......what? The same goes for Joachim, apparently.

 

[rylt11]

You've missed the point. A nightclub at night is very different from having time with one's friends.

She has a certain place in the social hierarchy of Denmark and should remember this. She is not Marie Cavallier any more. There is a difference.

It has nothing to do with being or not being Joaquim's property. It has to do with understanding the place she now holds in Danish society. It requires a certain amount of discretion with regard to how you carry on your activities.

To pretend she is a regular person, in spite of privileged status, living behind locked gates, walls, with many servants, entering a room with pomp and circumstance, being chauffered around, receiving flowers from curtsying children, all of that puts her in a different social place which she needs to remember when she is out in public.

She does hold a special rank and it is unbecoming for her to go on socializing in nightclubs with men without her prince around.

Why didn't Joaquim attend this outing - where was he?

 

[Sister Morphine]

Actually I think it's you who has missed the point.

It's 2010. Women, including princesses, can socialize with whom they want, provided the important people in their lives don't care. Clearly, Joachim allows his wife to go out with her friends to wherever they feel like going and doesn't have a problem with it. That's all that really matters. Also, when you call Joachim "her prince", you make him sound her keeper, which again is degrading. As though she was his property or someone she's supposed to report back to. I don't know if you're understanding exactly how degrading you're sounding.

And believe it or not, going out to a nightclub with friends and having a good time with your friends aren't mutually exclusive. It is possible to do both and many people do. Shocking, I know.

And maybe Joachim didn't go with because he didn't want to. Is there a problem with that? Are people not allowed to go out without their spouses in your world? She's a princess, but she's not in a damn glass cage. My word, it's the 21st century now. Either roll with the times or the times will roll over you.

 

[rylt11]

I refer to Joaquim as her prince as a result of the references they made during their engagement interview where it was stated that although he was a prince asking for Marie's hand in marriage, that her family considered her their "little princess", their "jewel".

The Duchess of York, Diana, Stephanie, and others know the problems that arise when they start seeing male friends with no husband around. It can lead to problems.

Though I know that many will consider the attitude old fashioned, it is better to shore up the marriage than let little incidents like this to set precedents that could lead to unnecessary issues later on.

It has nothing to do with being shackled or being degraded. It just makes common sense that married women should watch what they do when it comes to male company at night. Royal married women have an especially delicate role to respect - it all comes with the special place in society that they hold.

Pretending that they are just plain folks is naive. Public figures need to be extra mindful of what they do, as a sense of respect for the position they hold.

Again, I remind you readers, that she is no longer Marie Cavallier, put the princess of the realm.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Why do you assume that because Diana, Stephanie and Sarah were unfaithful, Marie will be as well? Do you think that if a woman has friends who are men (not including her spouse), she is automatically going to sleep with any number of them? Because that's sure what it sounds like to me. And that's really insulting -- that a married woman can't be friends with a man she's not married to because she might screw them. If you're secure in your relationship, the other person can hang out with as many members of the opposite sex as they want and it won't mean a damn thing. Jealousy and paranoia will destroy a relationship faster than anything else. If you have self-control, you can associate with whomever you want and there's no threat to anyone's relationship. Just because SOME married women, princesses or otherwise, couldn't keep their legs closed doesn't mean ALL married women, princesses or otherwise, will share the same fate. Not only is that insulting to married women everywhere, it's insulting to Marie, whom you're essentially calling a slut. That's not old-fashioned, it's misogynistic.

Marie being a princess means jack squat to this conversation. She did nothing wrong, she behaved in no unseemly, disgusting or embarrassing way and the only person who appears to have their hackles up because of it is you. Not her husband or in her in-laws. And last I checked, their opinions and those of other Danes are the ones that count. She has a title in front of her name, but it doesn't make her any better than anyone else and she still puts her pants on one leg a time, just like everyone else. She has duties and responsibilities of course, but we've heard nothing of her shirking those duties and responsibilities or doing anything else that might embarrass her family. So what exactly is your problem? That's she's not living in the 1890s?

 

[sgl]

I refer to Joaquim as her prince as a result of the references they made during their engagement interview where it was stated that although he was a prince asking for Marie's hand in marriage, that her family considered her their "little princess", their "jewel".

The Duchess of York, Diana, Stephanie, and others know the problems that arise when they start seeing male friends with no husband around. It can lead to problems.

Though I know that many will consider the attitude old fashioned, it is better to shore up the marriage than let little incidents like this to set precedents that could lead to unnecessary issues later on.

It has nothing to do with being shackled or being degraded. It just makes common sense that married women should watch what they do when it comes to male company at night. Royal married women have an especially delicate role to respect - it all comes with the special place in society that they hold.

Pretending that they are just plain folks is naive. Public figures need to be extra mindful of what they do, as a sense of respect for the position they hold.

Again, I remind you readers, that she is no longer Marie Cavallier, put the princess of the realm.

Denmark is not a country where its public places are segregated by gender. If she were to go out to dinner with her friends, there would be men and alcohol in the restaurant. Many people throughout the world go to nightclubs for reasons other than trying to hook up. I have gone to clubs many, many times with my friends. It is a bit insulting to assume that just because one goes to a club, they are trying to hook up with someone (titled or otherwise). They are fun places to dance, and they are a big part of city life in western society.

It is highly speculative to say that it was unseemly. Nobody knows how she spent her evening. It is impossible to know from looking at a couple of photos of a person entering a club. In the photos, she is with Dennis Knudsen (a gay man) and her girlfriends. That is not enough evidence to say she was with "male company at night". Yes, Mr. Knudsen is male, but I really don't think he will try to steal the princess away from her prince
Marie is not the first princess to go out to a club with her friends. Her sister in law has gone out to clubs without her husband a few times, and it hasn't been a big deal.

Marie is a modern woman; a princess who is doing a good job in her role (in my opinion), and is adored by her husband and baby, whom she both clearly loves.

 

[Katrianna]

It really boils down to the old double standard. Princes can be seen going to sports events and partying afterward or to clubs or whatever and it's the," boys will be boys", attitude. How many times have we seen Prince so and so on a well deserved night out?, per media. If a Princess does the same, it's perceived as trouble in the marriage especially if she attends with men friends.

 

[Muhler]

I cannot imagine there will be many raised eyebrows over this in Denmark.
That Marie is going to a nightclub with friends is something basically only royal watchers will even notice.
Most will simply think: Great, Marie is having fun with her friends. Good for her. And that will be it.
Unless she is dead-drunk, completely stoned, stripping while dancing on a table or attempting to grope every man in sight, this will in no way be percieved as dubious behavior.

She is surrounded by friends in a public place. She was going to a night club, where many of the group of people who aqquiant the DRF go. No doubt she would have met quite a few at that club, whom she already knew.
She was basically socialising with the same sphere of people, she is otherwise socialising with, formal and informally, when she is Copenhagen.
Should Marie start to get drunk, her friends, if they are true friends, would intervene. Should anyone try to hit on her or there should be other kinds of trouble, people would form a protective screen around her, as they have in the past with Frederik, who was a very frequent guest at all sorts of nightclubs.
The Danish jet set after all only consists of a few thousand people in total and they have a tendency to mingle with each other in the same places and as such they more or less know everybody else.

From an infidelity point of view, I'd say that a nightclub is about the safest place la Marie could go in the eyes of Joachim. Marie could hardly have a fling with anyone there without that fact being known to him within a few nanoseconds. He would have much more reason to be concerned if she went to a private party, away from the public glare. Or Marie "just going shopping with some friends".

But I have seen no hints whatsoever that Marie and Joachim's marriage should be strained, nor have I ever heard about Marie being the least bit "loose".

ADDED: According to MSN Starlounge http://msndk.starlounge.com/index.cfm?objectid=82521 Marie went out with a few of her friends. They arrived at the night club at around 23.00 and left again around 01.00, where she was escorted to her car. Presumably either to drive back to Amalienborg or being driven back. (PET usually don't accompany Marie and Joachim). At the club she met Niklas Bendtner, the boyfriend of one of her friends, Caroline Fleming. He was there with some friends as well.
She was seen dancing and having fun.

It may be a cultural thing but here in DK, there is a good deal of respect around what people do in private, even in public places. Yet. The magazines are hesitant to write too detailed about it as the readers have a tendency to react against it.
A number of years ago a government minister dragged his mistress to a public event. Editors admitted later that it was a boderline issue, but they didn't write about it. That minister's sexual exploits was considered a private matter.

In my opinion it's not only her right to go out with her friends, it's beneficial.
Now, Mrs. Muhler is not a princess but she often go out with her friends and I would feel pretty silly if I insisted on going with her to say, watch male strippers. The bottom line is of course that if she is having fun, I'm happy And she has so many opportunities to have a fling anyway, that I cannot prevent it unless I locked her up. - And so have I. Opportunities that is.

Where were Joachim? No idea, perhaps he was watching the world championship in snooker, like me, completely oblivious to the rest of the world. And la Marie could A) watch it with her husband, while yawning her jaws to shreds or B) go out with some friends.
(Or C) like my dear counterpart, text her thumb to pieces while finding a sadistic glee in commenting on the utter pointlessness of two adult men using a stick to hit coloured balls with ).

 

[carlota]

However, I still prefer princesses with their husbands or family, I think.

i see nothing wrong with a princess going out with her friends from time to time. otherwise, we are coming back to basics, when women were not allowed out without someone to supervise them? we are in the 21st century and it's more than normal that marie wants to go out with her friends from time to time. it's not that she parties everyday and leaves her household duties unattended. everyone needs a break, which also includes a break from the person you are with 90% of your time. this reinforces relationships.

Seriously, the idea that a woman, princess or otherwise, can't ever go anywhere with someone who isn't their husband is extremely Victorian in its sensibility. I sincerely doubt Marie is bringing shame to the house of Laborde de Monpezat by going out with some friends, one of whom is a gay man.

indeed. this looks to me like any other girls get together drinking some wine and enjoying some company.

You've missed the point. A nightclub at night is very different from having time with one's friends.

She has a certain place in the social hierarchy of Denmark and should remember this. She is not Marie Cavallier any more. There is a difference.

It has nothing to do with being or not being Joaquim's property. It has to do with understanding the place she now holds in Danish society. It requires a certain amount of discretion with regard to how you carry on your activities.

To pretend she is a regular person, in spite of privileged status, living behind locked gates, walls, with many servants, entering a room with pomp and circumstance, being chauffered around, receiving flowers from curtsying children, all of that puts her in a different social place which she needs to remember when she is out in public.

She does hold a special rank and it is unbecoming for her to go on socializing in nightclubs with men without her prince around.

Why didn't Joaquim attend this outing - where was he?

i understand your point only in the situation that marie went out, partied, drunk too much every night. but this is not the case. initially, i dont think we will ever see that kind of behaviour in marie. she looks like a well-rounded, intelligent individual. i believe it's one of the first times we get to see her out with friends since she married. we have seen mary out and about in concerts, restaurants, shopping sprees, nights out etc with girlfriends in numerous times also.

Marie will always remain a french middle-class young women . I miss Alexandra.
In mine opinion middle-class means without background , this has nothing to do with money!

what do you mean by "without background"? marie attended some fine schools when she was little and was raised very appropriately by her family. she studied abroad, travelled, speaks languages and seems appreciated by everyone in her new life as royal. i believe her background is certainly more than suitable.

 

[rylt11]

I appreciate the "boys will be boys" quote. That is precisely my point.

Once the precedents are set, there is no turning back. Joaquim did his fair share of going about town, to bars, private parties, indeed he was even flirting in Australia at the bar where Frederik met Mary, all of this while married to Alexandra.

The marriage may well have had deep cracks in it it while he was out having a good time with friends without his wife, but these good times certainly did nothing to improve it.

I'm not saying, or even suggesting, that Marie is trying to pick up men. I'm just stating the fact that a married woman needs to be careful about going out on the town without her husband. When she is a princess, she needs to watch points even more carefully. She needs to maintain the respect that her position in that society expects of her --- no matter how modern the Danes may be.

It's a common sense issue.

I might add that there is no need to lower the level of vocabulary or language, as some have done while expressing their opinions.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I'm not saying, or even suggesting, that Marie is trying to pick up men. I'm just stating the fact that a married woman needs to be careful about going out on the town without her husband. When she is a princess, she needs to watch points even more carefully. She needs to maintain the respect that her position in that society expects of her --- no matter how modern the Danes may be.

It's a common sense issue.

What makes you think she hasn't maintained the respect of the Danish people? If the Danes don't care that she's out at a club with some friends.....why should you? You're coming off as though Marie has personally offended your sensibilities. She hasn't done squat to you. Or to anyone else, for that matter.

I'm just stating the fact that a married woman needs to be careful about going out on the town without her husband.

That's not a fact, that's your opinion. Apparently YOU think women are sluts or something because you keep bringing this issue back to "Marie needs to be careful around other men", as though she's liable to rip their pants off and have sex with them on the table at the nightclub. Just because other married princesses or even her own husband, couldn't control themselves when out with other people doesn't mean Marie is going to do the same thing. Believe it or not, and I'm sure this will come as a shock to you, but most women are capable of going out with other people, including guys, and not go to bed with them. My mom and dad go out with their friends a lot on the weekends, and yeah......they go out with mixed company. My parents haven't cheated on each other this whole time, and they've been married 38 years. The fact that neither of them are royalty doesn't mean anything. The point is, they have no need to sleep with anyone else, they are faithful to each other. So my mom can go out with friends from work and my dad can do the same and there's not even a scintilla of doubt in anyone's mind what is going on.


I'm not kidding -- it's not the 1890s anymore. You need to be more progressive in your thought.

 

[Muhler]

I appreciate the "boys will be boys" quote. That is precisely my point.

Once the precedents are set, there is no turning back. Joaquim did his fair share of going about town, to bars, private parties, indeed he was even flirting in Australia at the bar where Frederik met Mary, all of this while married to Alexandra.

The marriage may well have had deep cracks in it it while he was out having a good time with friends without his wife, but these good times certainly did nothing to improve it.

I'm not saying, or even suggesting, that Marie is trying to pick up men. I'm just stating the fact that a married woman needs to be careful about going out on the town without her husband. When she is a princess, she needs to watch points even more carefully. She needs to maintain the respect that her position in that society expects of her --- no matter how modern the Danes may be.

It's a common sense issue.

I might add that there is no need to lower the level of vocabulary or language, as some have done while expressing their opinions.

This is fascinating. I guess this is very much an issue of perception and culture perhaps?

Both Joachim and Alexandra went to town when married. As far as I understand Alexandra met Martin as a part of a filming. Joachim met Marie the first time at a hunt, later on he contacted her. None of them met while in town.
As for Australia: Joachim was surrounded by his brother and other pretty close friends. He said something about Mary choosing his brother over him. That sounds like something I've said myself. I.e. a cultural thing.
Perhaps you would like to define "flirting"?

You wrote that a married woman should be careful when in town without her husband. I'm a married man, why should my wife be careful?
What or whom should she take into consideration?
Me? I trust my wife. We wouldn't have been married for thirteen years if I didn't. I trust her sound judgement and her friends to help her if need be.
Her family? They would, deservedly, knock me on the head if I wouldn't allow her to go out alone.
Our children? I don't think they will be teased at school because their mother is seen dancing with another man.
My family? They would, deservedly, knock me twice on the head if I wouldn't allow my wife to go out alone.
Our friends? - Soon to be ex-friends, because they would face the full wrath of Mrs. Muhler. - While I would be in hiding behind the couch, with the dog. No, I would back her up and in fact go ballistic if anyone questioned her moral.
Neighbours? They can gossip forever, I don't care. It would entirely be a matter between me and her.

My point is that I cannot prevent her from having an affair if she want's to. And if I didn't trust her I would be killing our marriage.
That doesn't mean I cannot become jealous. I can - fortunately. But that's an entirely different matter.

I believe people have a fling because they either deliberatly want to.
Their judgement is down, for whatever reason. Drunk for instance.
Or their marriage is on the rocks.
You cannot prevent that by forbidding your wife from going out.
Especially as there are so many other opportunities in the day to day life.

And how about me? Shouldn't I go out alone? I would be pretty mad if Mrs. Muhler forbade me to go out without her. And also hurt, doesn't she trust me?

I believe a similar thing applies to Joachim and la Marie, judging from the fact that he trust her well enough to let her go out on her own, and because he and I have a roughly similar cultural background or similar norms if you will.

 

[Her_Majesty]

I really don't see any problem with Marie enjoying a night out with some friends.
I also don't see a problem with her having a friendship with her hairstylist.

I'm just stating the fact that a married woman needs to be careful about going out on the town without her husband. When she is a princess, she needs to watch points even more carefully. She needs to maintain the respect that her position in that society expects of her --- no matter how modern the Danes may be.

I think this is quite an oldfashioned way of thinking. What's so horrible about a woman going out on the town without her husband? I know many who do so. I agree with Sister Morphine; we live in modern times.
Actually I don't think the Danes expect the Princess to stay at home with the Prince all the time or only leaving the house to go out to town with Joachim.
Imo there's no need to make mountains out of molehills.

 

[Lumutqueen]

She's a princess, but she's not in a damn glass cage. My word, it's the 21st century now. Either roll with the times or the times will roll over you.

I love everything that you said and especially agree with that comment above.

Once the precedents are set, there is no turning back. Joaquim did his fair share of going about town, to bars, private parties, indeed he was even flirting in Australia at the bar where Frederik met Mary, all of this while married to Alexandra.

The marriage may well have had deep cracks in it it while he was out having a good time with friends without his wife, but these good times certainly did nothing to improve it.

I'm not saying, or even suggesting, that Marie is trying to pick up men. I'm just stating the fact that a married woman needs to be careful about going out on the town without her husband. When she is a princess, she needs to watch points even more carefully. She needs to maintain the respect that her position in that society expects of her --- no matter how modern the Danes may be.

It's a common sense issue.

Joachim might've gone around the town, but so did Alexandra.
And you think because he did it when they were married, and they divorced, thats going to happen the Marie and Joachim?
You think the Danish society, wants her to stay in 24/7, come out wave, cut some ribbon, then go back to being a housewife?
Have you ever been to Denmark, do you know what there "society expects of her"? They probably don't even care that she went out without Joachim. She had a night off, the way she wanted to, Joachim had a night off doing what he wanted. I don't think you mean what society expects of her, i think you mean what you expect of her.
My common sense tells me, that Marie should be allowed to do what she likes, without her husband by her side 24/7.
Might i ask, do you also think she shouldn't be apart from her husband at official events? Or is it just when she wants to relax?


Oh and Marie has the same background that Alexandra had. IMO she has a better one.

To Muhler (sorry i forgot to quote your post when originally clicking)

He said something about Mary choosing his brother over him. That sounds like something I've said myself. I.e. a cultural thing.

I have also read this myself, but from what i've been told personally, this was a joke, in a sense. Joachim rating himself better than his brother, and Mary should've chosen him etc.

 

[rylt11]

I certainly seem to be in the minority. Nonetheless, I truly believe that married women should not go nightclubbig with men who are not their husbands, or should inlcude the husband when going in a group of the opposite sex.

Men should have the courtesy and consideration to refrain from going out on the town with women when their wives aren't present.

Of course, no one is going to have sex in the middle of the nightclub as some woman claims. However, it is best to avoid problems than create them. Once the precedent is set, no matter how innocent it all starts out, there is no turning back, and, at some point, trouble can start. Granted, trouble can start anywhere, at any time.

I just don't think it's a good idea. Go to a dinner in mixed company, do something else, but going out drinking and dancing at night can lead to problems, no matter how innocent and benign it starts off.

Let's agree to disagree on this.

 

[Muhler]

I certainly seem to be in the minority. Nonetheless, I truly believe that married women should not go nightclubbig with men who are not their husbands, or should inlcude the husband when going in a group of the opposite sex.

Men should have the courtesy and consideration to refrain from going out on the town with women when their wives aren't present.

Of course, no one is going to have sex in the middle of the nightclub as some woman claims. However, it is best to avoid problems than create them. Once the precedent is set, no matter how innocent it all starts out, there is no turning back, and, at some point, trouble can start. Granted, trouble can start anywhere, at any time.

I just don't think it's a good idea. Go to a dinner in mixed company, do something else, but going out drinking and dancing at night can lead to problems, no matter how innocent and benign it starts off.

Let's agree to disagree on this.

That we certainly are.

I presume that includes business dinners?
Conferences?
Company parties/outings?
Stagnights/hennights as well?

That's an awful lot of social events you have to decline.

Statistically speaking the most likely place to start an affair is at or in connection with work. What would you suggest should be done about that?

I believe mutual trust is preferable to staying away from temptations.
If you do not trust yourself and your spouse then, believe me, it will kill your marriage, one way or another, just as surely as any affair.

But you are right, let's agree on disagreeing.