General News about Frederik, Mary and Family Part 19: September 2023 -

[moby]

I’ve also enjoyed reading the different takes here. There are certainly strong points to argue for or against the affair. Just some thoughts based on what I’ve read—

— On expecting Mary not to “tolerate” Fred’s infidelity, if this is indeed a case of one, what does that mean? Marriages are complex, some people’s hard lines are different from others’. Their positions aside, there are children to consider, all of whom, even the oldest two, are still very young. Just because this generation of royal women are not expected to “tolerate” infidelities, doesn’t mean they would automatically end their marriages when faced with this kind of crisis. If Mary chooses to forgive Fred, insists on couple’s therapy, insists on a change in behavior from him but ultimately decides to keep her family intact, then that is ultimately her choice and I find it problematic and unfair that there is an expectation for her to react in a certain way, one that ideally fulfills expectations of what modern royal women are supposed to do.

— I’ve also read that Fred was trying to fly under the radar and did not inform the authorities of his arrival. I find that tough to believe. It’s courtesy to let Spanish authorities know because though he is not yet Head of State, he is still a very high-ranking official and one close to the Spanish King. His security is partly the responsibility of either guardias or policía nacional (not sure which exactly) once he’s in Spain. If anything untoward had happened to him in those moments from arrival till Spain was officially notified he’s in the country, that would have been embarrassing for Spain. If I were Felipe, I’d be livid, so I do think there was some communication regarding his arrival and stay in the country. It’s not being casual flying under the radar and going against protocol, it’s being irresponsible.

- I get the wisdom behind palaces keeping quiet and not responding to salacious gossip, but I think this is not one of those instances. Frederik is deemed to be casual and a relaxed person, can’t it not be arranged for him be able to informally drop a few lines of “This story is absolutely false. It’s important for me to say this because I want there to be no doubt in anyone’s mind that it is untrue and they do nothing more than hurt my family,” or something like that, much like Prince William’s throwaway but impactful “We’re very much not a racist family” comment.

- I have no definitive judgment on the whole thing. I wasn’t there, can’t say if an affair happened or not but I judge Frederik for bad judgment. As has been pointed out, crucial questions seem to be (1) How long has he known Casanova and to what extent? Close friend he’s known for a while, or casually and spent the most time with her just that day as a stand-in for the friend who fell ill? (2) If the former, whose friend is she, his, Mary’s, or theirs? (3) Does the covid-ridden friend actually exist?

- Back to Frederik’s bad judgment, amazing to see years and years of good PR go down the drain from a few photos and stories. He really should have known that one can’t be too careful with these things. An important layer to this story is that he was seen with this particular woman with this particular reputation, that’s why the story is so believable. If he was just seen out to dinner, El Retiro, the Thyssen with her, that would have been story enough but being seen coming and going from her apartment? Oof.

 

[Blog Real]

Well, listen, I doubt any of these royal women who are fifteen or twenty years into their marriage see their husbands as the fairytale prince who swept them away to a life of endless happiness, if they ever did. I remember an interview Mary gave quite a few years ago now where she was asked about how she felt about her fairy tale marriage, or fairytale life, or something like that, and she basically said fairytale lives and fairytale marriages don’t exist, that she felt fortunate to have found someone who suited her as well as Frederik did, but that even a very happy marriage/life requires effort, compromise, etc.

Going through the list of European monarchies, there’s whatever this thing with Frederik is, in Sweden there was something that came bubbling up about Daniel’s potential relationship with another woman, and I can’t recall any rumours of infidelity with Haakon and Mette-Marit, but she has a serious chronic health condition, and that alone means they’ve had plenty to deal with. Albert and Charlene, you could write a book. I can remember at least one rumour of a marital crisis with Felipe and Letizia that seemed more credible than the usual overheated Spanish press with its nonsense. William and Kate had the situation with their mutual friend; although that actually did seem to be based on absolutely nothing, there are still plenty of people out there who will always take it as fact that William had an affair. The only couple where absolutely nothing springs to mind is Philippe and Mathilde.

There were no rumors about Guillaume and Stéphanie either, at least from what I remember.

But it is true that among heir couples who have married in the last two decades, there have been no divorces.
I believe that these couples, mainly due to the pressure they are subjected to, and the fact that they have the same job, may experience some problems. And maybe they will go through some wear and tear.

 

[B__ll]

When one enters a marriage it is almost as if they should know that they are agreeing to marry not one but four different people as everyone changes at various points in time. It seems at this point in time that they are trying to present a united front

https://people.com/prince-frederik-...s-socialite-denies-affair-future-king-8399365

 

[Muhler]

While I freely admit that there are some odd coincidences in the behavior that is reported about Frederik. There sure are some pretty big inconsistencies with the stories in the Spanish press as well!

The lasts now being that M&F friends have confided to (to them) unknown Spanish journalists that Frederik won't leave the marriage.
That is such a load of bull dust!
M&F's close friends are notorious for never saying a word - at all. Without explicit permission.
Anyway, in case there is infidelity, then I doubt anyone, including M&F themselves, know what is going to happen. And they sure ain't going to call all their friends and talk about it. Forget it! - Would you?
And that leads me to think: What other inconsistencies are there in this reporting?

We have the word of a Spanish photographer - who has an interest in making this story as juicy as possible.
That is the only eye-witness account we have.

- Did he leave anything out?
Was he around all the time?

There is the example of Miss Casanova and Frederik leaving separately. Soooo... what?
She went for a pack of cigarettes, perhaps? He went to the embassy? To a gift shop? To a jeweler, because he wants to surprise Mary with something?
You see what I mean? People can split up temporarily for all sorts of reasons.
- It's open to interpretation.

A photo of a long passionate kiss is not. But there is no such photo, is there?

The Spanish press can't even agree on how long Frederik was in Spain.
It ought to be fairly simply: Plane X landed on this date and took off with Frederik on that date. Someone, when presented with a photograph, surely would have seen him on these dates.

Anyway, my esteem for the Spanish press isn't that high. I've seen what they have written over the years about Queen Letizia and that's not something children should read!
And practically all serious media outlets these day have a gossip section, because gossip, scandals and sex sell. And much of that is pretty much copy-paste material. (DM being a favorite source BTW).

So again, I will go to great length before I will pass judgement on this story.
This is after all bl**dy serious!
In the worst case scenario Mary will divorce Frederik and that means he is toast! Not only in my eyes, but I dare say in the eyes of most Danes. He has screwed up before, but this would be the mother of all screw ups and I doubt he could recover.
In the best case scenario this happens with Mary's consent, for whatever reason. Yeah, I don't believe in that one either. It's a possibility though.
The most likely scenario IMO is that they would stay married, but I seriously doubt there will be the same spark between them.

Sh*t happens, even in the best marriages.
A one night stand after a party.
Falling in love = temporary insanity.
A wish to live out sexual fantasies = visiting a prostitute or go dogging in a park.
Feeling vulnerable or being exploited because you are vulnerable = a symptom of something being wrong in the marriage.
But a secret affair, that's in another league. That's a major betrayal of trust! That's where the movie snaps. (DK expression.)

As said before, it is basically all up to how Mary reacts and acts. She may be hopping mad right now, because Frederik ended up in this situation innocent or not. And she may be able to act for a while, but she can't keep it up if she doesn't mean it.
So unless something definite comes up, by no later than Royal Run next year I will make up my mind, by observing M&F together.

 

[Prinsara]

Okay, Muhler, I'll ask you the Edward VIII question:

Is this is a bored prince, a midlife crisis, or does something in Frederik really, really want to not be King that badly?

I just find it an incredible coincidence this happened right after Christian turned 18.

 

[Somebody]

There is the example of Miss Casanova and Frederik leaving separately. Soooo... what?
She went for a pack of cigarettes, perhaps? He went to the embassy? To a gift shop? To a jeweler, because he wants to surprise Mary with something?
You see what I mean? People can split up temporarily for all sorts of reasons.
- It's open to interpretation.

That's not what this about. This is about them leaving for their shared dinner on Wednesday evening. First Frederick left the house for the car and a few minutes later Genoveva left the house and joined him in the same car where he had been waiting for her to join him.

The optics are that they didn't want to be photographed leaving her house together - as is pretty common strategy in royal circles for young couples if a relationship is not yet confirmed/formally announced. Strangely enough they had no problem arriving together at her house well after mid-night.

 

[Mbruno]

Okay, Muhler, I'll ask you the Edward VIII question:

Is this is a bored prince, a midlife crisis, or does something in Frederik really, really want to not be King that badly?

I just find it an incredible coincidence this happened right after Christian turned 18.

There is no possibility of Frederik not becoming King if he outlives his mother. Even if he divorced Mary and married Casanova. It wouldn’t cause the line of succession to change in Denmark.

 

[Prinsara]

There is no possibility of Frederik not becoming King if he outlives his mother. Even if he divorced Mary and married Casanova. It wouldn’t cause the line of succession to change in Denmark.

If he's not allowed to renounce it, I imagine he could abdicate as soon as it happens and have a shorter reign than Edward VIII. I'm not interested in technicalities like whether he'll be king for fifteen minutes; I'm interested in what degree of conscious or unconscious self-damage we're talking about.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Okay, Muhler, I'll ask you the Edward VIII question:

Is this is a bored prince, a midlife crisis, or does something in Frederik really, really want to not be King that badly?

I just find it an incredible coincidence this happened right after Christian turned 18.

Yes there is a coincidence. If he wanted out of the marriage, using such photos as a catalyst would be a good option, but I don't think anyone believes that. If there was an affair and it was going on for some time, why jeoperdize it like this, and there are other ways to end it if this was the reason for the trip.

I can remember at least one rumour of a marital crisis with Felipe and Letizia that seemed more credible than the usual overheated Spanish press with its nonsense.

casareal actually commented on the marital status of F&L I think in 2013, when she left Mallorca earlier than scheduled without Felipe or the daughters after a rift. They confirmed that the marriage had its ups and downs what was very unusual.

 

[tommy100]

IF there was a divorce the more interesting question to me is what would happen to Mary? She is the mother of a future King so can't be thrown out completely. Then the question is how would it work having two competing Princesses - the new wife of Fred and his ex wife (for I don't see why they would divorce unless Fred wanted to remarry) both competing. That looks pretty messy to me.

Anyway, there are a lot of unknowns in the story - poor reporting may explain some of them, but still there is something unusual about it all as well IMO.

 

[Blog Real]

Okay, Muhler, I'll ask you the Edward VIII question:

Is this is a bored prince, a midlife crisis, or does something in Frederik really, really want to not be King that badly?

I just find it an incredible coincidence this happened right after Christian turned 18.

I think it's a great coincidence that the photos were released on the days when the Kings of Spain made their state visit to Denmark.

Frederik will one day be king. It just won't be if he dies before his mother.
If Frederik had not wanted to be king, he would have abdicated his place as heir when he was younger and single. And he never did.

 

[Muhler]

Okay, Muhler, I'll ask you the Edward VIII question:

Is this is a bored prince, a midlife crisis, or does something in Frederik really, really want to not be King that badly?

I just find it an incredible coincidence this happened right after Christian turned 18.

That thought has actually occurred to me. A kind of subconscious screw-up.
- It does sound a bit far fetched because he seems to have embraced his future role and he is also in so many ways being treated like a king. Poll after poll have shown that he is considered ready and he seems ready.
I'm not a professional but I guess people can be self-destructive in many way.
This one however, will mean that not only will he let his son, QMII and country down. He will deeply hurt those who are supposed to matter most to him in the world. - I don't think he would do that.
It would be easier to ski into a tree.

A midlife crisis of some sort would certainly be the IMO best explanation for a possible affair. It is however IMO a bit late to having affairs.
But of course a mid life crisis can manifest in so many ways that it could not be ruled out.

Bored? Well, certainly a possibility and also in what way? Sexually? The relationship? The passion is gone?
I don't really think so, because that crisis tend to come about a few years into having children. Or when the children have moved out. Or just bored in general.
- In the case of being bored in general. That's your own fault! If you are bored, do something! And Frederik has plenty of opportunities to do just that.
- A dangerous pit is a few years into the marriage. It's become routine. It evolves so much around the children, waking them, taking them to kindergarten, picking them up, feeding them, putting them to bed, that you forget to listen and look at each other. Sex happens Wednesday before bedtime and that's pretty much it. And you forget to date and to talk and listen. IMO you should remember to date all through your marriage.
But M&F does seem, so far, to have so to speak remembered to date.
- Another dangerous pit is when the children have moved out and you look at your spouse in the couch over there and wonder: What did I ever see in that slob?!? You discover that with the children gone you really don't have that much in common anymore and you have long since forgot to listen and talk to each other. While your children grew up, you grew apart.
I'd say it's a bit early for M&F to reach that stage, but it could be a possibility.

There can be so many reasons for infidelity, for growing apart or just living together simply because that's the most convenient.
But the spark between M&F at the very least until very recently has still been there.
Frederik has many qualities, having a poker face is not among them! He is a lousy hypocrite. If he stopped loving Mary or wasn't attracted to her, I doubt very much he could hide it, certainly not to Mary and nor us, who have watched them for 20 years now.

 

[Prinsara]

That thought has actually occurred to me. A kind of subconscious screw-up.
- It does sound a bit far fetched because he seems to have embraced his future role and he is also in so many ways being treated like a king. Poll after poll have shown that he is considered ready and he seems ready.
I'm not a professional but I guess people can be self-destructive in many way.
This one however, will mean that not only will he let his son, QMII and country down. He will deeply hurt those who are supposed to matter most to him in the world. - I don't think he would do that.
It would be easier to ski into a tree.

"I can't help thinking that the best thing that could happen to him, and to the country, would be for him to break his neck.'" — Tommy Lascelles
"God forgive me; I have often thought the same." — Stanley Baldwin, PM

Didn't happen that way, though (and Edward had spoken of suicide at various points).

Frederik is (hopefully, seemingly) somewhat less-troubled (although the relationship with the distant cultured mother is kind of similar to EVIII and Queen Mary), and has managed to have a wife and be a dad to four nice kids, but if you want a way out, you find one.

And adult Christian might be that way out.

Edit: The other well-documented thing about Edward as prince/king is that one of his guiding principles was if he could "get away with it". This latest thing with Frederik has all the earmarks of something he was trying to "get away with" — and did not.

 

[Muhler]

IF there was a divorce the more interesting question to me is what would happen to Mary? She is the mother of a future King so can't be thrown out completely. Then the question is how would it work having two competing Princesses - the new wife of Fred and his ex wife (for I don't see why they would divorce unless Fred wanted to remarry) both competing. That looks pretty messy to me.

Anyway, there are a lot of unknowns in the story - poor reporting may explain some of them, but still there is something unusual about it all as well IMO.

Unless she decides to leave DK, which considering her children is unlikely, she will remain in DK. Become a princess and have a residence somewhere, probably in or around Copenhagen.
The children will be asked who they would prefer to live with or whether they prefer a 50-50 arrangement.
Christian will probably move into his own apartment ASAP.
Mary will of course be granted means to live a life befitting her status and she will get a considerable chunk of Frederik's fortune as well as alimony.
That's almost a guarantee.

A lot will also depend on what role Mary would have. Will she retire completely from all public duties? Or will she like Alexandra keep a number of protections? She would still be in very high demand and no doubt remain extremely popular, completely overshadowing Frederik. (Unless of course she has skeletons in the closet as well.)
In the case of the public Frederik will face the hardest time of his life! Especially if estrange himself from his children as well. In particular Christian.

I doubt Frederik will remarry. Whom should he marry?
Miss Casanova? QMII would turn her down on the spot. And even if Frederik is king, the Parliament may very well turn his request down. He can chose between abdication or Miss Casanova.
Another woman? No one in the horizon. And any woman to whom Frederik would propose surely would think: Will he cheat on me as well?
Not to mention that any future wife will have to compete with a very formidable Mary! Guess who the public would favor...

Frederik could of course step back in favor of Christian: That would please and annoy people at the same time. Christian could end up becoming king at an extremely young age and very unprepared. No one will thank Frederik for that.

- In case of infidelity, Frederik will lose no matter what. It's merely a matter of how big he will lose.
In the best case scenario Mary will forgive him and they will somehow reconcile and work it out. Frederik will still have a tattered reputation that will take years of hard work to rebuild, if ever.

So when I say this is serious, I mean it!
And that's why I want to be as certain as at all possible before passing judgement.

However, even though the Danish press has held back - until now. I cannot see how the DRF can avoid making a statement and preferably soon.

 

[Mbruno]

Unless she decides to leave DK, which considering her children is unlikely, she will remain in DK. Become a princess and have a residence somewhere, probably in or around Copenhagen.
The children will be asked who they would prefer to live with or whether they prefer a 50-50 arrangement.
Christian will probably move into his own apartment ASAP.
Mary will of course be granted means to live a life befitting her status and she will get a considerable chunk of Frederik's fortune as well as alimony.
That's almost a guarantee.

A lot will also depend on what role Mary would have. Will she retire completely from all public duties? Or will she like Alexandra keep a number of protections? She would still be in very high demand and no doubt remain extremely popular, completely overshadowing Frederik. (Unless of course she has skeletons in the closet as well.)
In the case of the public Frederik will face the hardest time of his life! Especially if estrange himself from his children as well. In particular Christian.

I doubt Frederik will remarry. Whom should he marry?
Miss Casanova? QMII would turn her down on the spot. And even if Frederik is king, the Parliament may very well turn his request down. He can chose between abdication or Miss Casanova.
Another woman? No one in the horizon. And any woman to whom Frederik would propose surely would think: Will he cheat on me as well?
Not to mention that any future wife will have to compete with a very formidable Mary! Guess who the public would favor...

Frederik could of course step back in favor of Christian: That would please and annoy people at the same time. Christian could end up becoming king at an extremely young age and very unprepared. No one will thank Frederik for that.

- In case of infidelity, Frederik will lose no matter what. It's merely a matter of how big he will lose.
In the best case scenario Mary will forgive him and they will somehow reconcile and work it out. Frederik will still have a tattered reputation that will take years of hard work to rebuild, if ever.

So when I say this is serious, I mean it!
And that's why I want to be as certain as at all possible before passing judgement.

However, even though the Danish press has held back - until now. I cannot see how the DRF can avoid making a statement and preferably soon.

Actually marrying without the Queen’s consent given in the Council of State is a possible situation that would cause Frederik to legally forefeit his succession rights under Danish law.

And, even if Frederik were already king, he would then need the consent of the Danish Parliament to remarry.

 

[Muhler]

That's not what this about. This is about them leaving for their shared dinner on Wednesday evening. First Frederick left the house for the car and a few minutes later Genoveva left the house and joined him in the same car where he had been waiting for her to join him.

The optics are that they didn't want to be photographed leaving her house together - as is pretty common strategy in royal circles for young couples if a relationship is not yet confirmed/formally announced. Strangely enough they had no problem arriving together at her house well after mid-night.

Except they were to be seen in public together anyway.

Perhaps Miss Casanova forgot something or decided the shoes didn't match her earrings, whatever.

If you want to have a secret affair out of sight, borrow a cabin somewhere. But this...

If they are having an affair and tried to hide it, their behavior is downright comical. Not even Peter Sellers could have devised a less discreet way of going about it.

 

[polyesco]

I'm still wrapping my head around the unless speculation and interpretations.
Some of the many versions...
So he has waited for Christian to turn 18 to make this affair public. Because he doesn't want to be king. He wants out. Wouldn't it be easier if he sprinkled some hand holding, a hug, a kiss into this outing?
Or he wants the affair to continue and keeps it private but yet he heads out to many public places with a semi famous person.
Or he wants to end this long lastly affair, but first let's head to the museum and a restaurant?
Or he became careless with his affair, but not enough carelessness to hug, kiss, smile?

I'm sorry, no one knows what goes on behind close doors, but from these photos a million speculative stories are coming out that are just that speculative.

I laughed when the Spanish media said that his recent royal run video where he shows his wedding ring was a sign after the photos. When in reality the video was recorded in September.

From the pictures so far I'm thinking Frederik was naive and dumb. Maybe he has the love and trust of his wife that he didn't think how this would look to those outside his marriage. 23 years together Mary must have some trust in him or she would be miserable.

Now people are saying Mary is hiding when those who follow her agenda know this is a typical November.
Or that Frederik made his recent visit to the Dansh Tech campus a private one to keep away the press. When in reality his visits in connection to the Danish Tech Challenge are usually always unannounced. Same with tomorrow's Denmarkbridge event.

 

[victor1319]

So, a few days and now the plot thickens... speculation about the eventual motive of Frederick...

I don't want to shy away from this: What if the love of Mary and Frederick has turned cold? How could Frederick finish this story and his marriage for good? With a humiliation! Enter the slightly too ripe Ms. Casanova, which has the right name for this... He might or might have not, but there is enough evidence!

Now Mary is embarrassed and the ball is in her side of the court. And if she does not react, then there is a certain escalation potential in this alledged affair.

 

[Blog Real]

Honestly, and after reading a lot about this subject in the Spanish press, I don't think there was a romantic relationship between Frederik and Genoveva. I believe more in a friendly relationship, and that after all this controversy it should be over by now.
The press always inflates situations. Frederik and Mary will probably resolve whatever they have to resolve in private and the wedding will continue.

 

[Granada]

I still think that Genoveva's reaction to all this is crucial.
She KNOWS what the truth is. AND is NOW in the truly unenviable position of being *thought* a possible home wrecker to a very popular Princess.

Princess Mary is more familiar, than I dare say other continental royalty. Especially in The UK, as native Australian of Scottish ancestry.
I, as an American did watch, "Mary The Making of a Princess" TV movie that came out in 2015 on line. I enjoyed it, harmless fluff. But thats me....LOL.

Genoveva is also the mother of two young adults, who live in The UK. For their sake, as well as her own social prospects and reputation, She has to think how to move forward to safeguard her own interests.

Again, this whole circus, whatever the truth actually is, was handled so poorly, a PR nightmare for Frederik. So avoidable. ALL of his own making too.

 

[Saragli]

Unless incriminating photos or undeniable details come out I don't think we will hear much from the DRF. There really is no need to comment just because the Spanish press, notorious as they are, are trying to stir up an immense amount of drama over some very boring and innocent pictures. The fact that the Spanish press had to wait until the state visit in order to generate as much publicity as possible shows me they knew they didn't have much of a story but had to find as much potential as possible with what they had. Sure, there are details and Geneveva's response that could indicate something more, but also not really. That isn't to say the Frederick is above having an affair, he is a middle aged man with children reaching adulthood, its almost cliche for him to have an affair at this point. I find it quite surprising, that after the war of the walses, there is still an appetite for marital drama amongst the public.

 

[ladongas]

Many couples survive the revelation of affairs. This couple has more reason than most to stay together, if indeed an affair has occurred. Mary is no doubt p-o’d regardless of what happened. But they’ve been (seemingly) happily married for 20 years, and their children are old enough to vocalize their feelings. It seems premature to assume that a separation will occur. As “Dear Abby” always says, would you be better off with him/her or without him/her?

 

[Queen Claude]

While I freely admit that there are some odd coincidences in the behavior that is reported about Frederik. There sure are some pretty big inconsistencies with the stories in the Spanish press as well!

The lasts now being that M&F friends have confided to (to them) unknown Spanish journalists that Frederik won't leave the marriage.
That is such a load of bull dust!
M&F's close friends are notorious for never saying a word - at all. Without explicit permission.
Anyway, in case there is infidelity, then I doubt anyone, including M&F themselves, know what is going to happen. And they sure ain't going to call all their friends and talk about it. Forget it! - Would you?
And that leads me to think: What other inconsistencies are there in this reporting?

Why are you ruling out that the friends don't have explicit permission?

We have the word of a Spanish photographer - who has an interest in making this story as juicy as possible.
That is the only eye-witness account we have.

- Did he leave anything out?
Was he around all the time?

What was said by the Spanish photographer that was so juicy, the part about the presence (or non-presence) of security?

The Spanish press can't even agree on how long Frederik was in Spain. It ought to be fairly simply: Plane X landed on this date and took off with Frederik on that date. Someone, when presented with a photograph, surely would have seen him on these dates.

Do you as a supporter of the Danish Royal Family really want that kind of scrutiny? What if it was a corporate jet? IIRC this is what led to the downfall of Felipe's father Juan Carlos, it started off as him getting injured on a hunting trip and things snowballed from there I truly hope that there is nothing untoward going on, but the Danish royals seem (to me) very chummy with the business community.

Anyway, my esteem for the Spanish press isn't that high. I've seen what they have written over the years about Queen Letizia and that's not something children should read!
And practically all serious media outlets these day have a gossip section, because gossip, scandals and sex sell. And much of that is pretty much copy-paste material. (DM being a favorite source BTW).

And yet Crown Prince Frederik goes on a stroll in their front yard with a woman who is a known entity to Spain's gossip press.

So again, I will go to great length before I will pass judgement on this story.
This is after all bl**dy serious!

In the worst case scenario Mary will divorce Frederik and that means he is toast! Not only in my eyes, but I dare say in the eyes of most Danes. He has screwed up before, but this would be the mother of all screw ups and I doubt he could recover.

I understand you and others taking the position of letting all the information come out before passing judgement. That is usually my default position but to me, and I think many others, they are judging Fred for his reckless disregard, whether it is reckless disregard in not having a discreet affair, or the reckless disregard of walking the streets in a country with an aggressive gossip press, and to top it off with a woman who is best known by that press for her romantic entanglements.

If Fred was the only person who got negative blowback from this incident, that would be one thing, but he has likely cause pain to his children, wife and mother, and has really put his wife in a terrible, terrible position. The wife who, while he was gallivanting around Madrid, was in NYC, working on among other things, Denmark's effort to join the UN Security Council. ?

 

[suztav]

OK ... someone get me up-to-date on this situation.

Only the Spanish media is reporting this? Not the Danish media? Or both?

I'm on a CPMary Message Board every day ... and not a word about this? Very curious!

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

The Danish media is reporting on it but strangely cool enough all the insider sources only seem to want to appear in the Spanish media.

And another major difference is that even the Danish media aren't blowing the story up as much as the Spanish do. It's tabloid news. As a matter of fact, the subject of the ethics of blowing up these pictures that in reality show nothing but two humans walking next to each other as something clandestine has been discussed.

That's not what this about. This is about them leaving for their shared dinner on Wednesday evening. First Frederick left the house for the car and a few minutes later Genoveva left the house and joined him in the same car where he had been waiting for her to join him.

The optics are that they didn't want to be photographed leaving her house together - as is pretty common strategy in royal circles for young couples if a relationship is not yet confirmed/formally announced. Strangely enough they had no problem arriving together at her house well after mid-night.

That there should be some type of clandestine reason for them not leaving the house together makes zero sense given they had no problem entering her house together. Or being seen walking together all over Madrid.

(...) Now Mary is embarrassed and the ball is in her side of the court. And if she does not react, then there is a certain escalation potential in this alledged affair.

Eh. I reckon Mary reacting before Frederik would be more of an escalation.

And yet Crown Prince Frederik goes on a stroll in their front yard with a woman who is a known entity to Spain's gossip press.

Right. Even more reason to question the insinuation that they are more than friends.

If Fred was the only person who got negative blowback from this incident, that would be one thing, but he has likely cause pain to his children, wife and mother, and has really put his wife in a terrible, terrible position. The wife who, while he was gallivanting around Madrid, was in NYC, working on among other things, Denmark's effort to join the UN Security Council. ?

I saw his eldest daughter dance in a Tiktok video posted Saturday. She didn't look devastated, let me put it like that

But yes. Personally the thing I, as a Dane and Mary devotee, feel most outraged about is the fact that this man seems to have endless time for leisurely trips. Sailing vacations, culture vacations. And we've just had a public, week-long holiday as well. Doesn't he have anything better to do?

 

[Sun Lion]

OK ... someone get me up-to-date on this situation.

Only the Spanish media is reporting this? Not the Danish media? Or both?

I'm on a CPMary Message Board every day ... and not a word about this? Very curious!

Here’s my understanding suztav …

Wednesday morning, here in Australia, it was reported that the Spanish magazine Lecturas had exclusive photos of Crown Prince Frederik and Genoveva Casanova in Madrid while Crown Princess Mary was in the USA on official business.

It was said Frederik went to Madrid with a group of University friends, to see the Pablo Picasso exhibition at a museum there.

The information changed to it then being one friend and that this friend suddenly became ill … Covid … who then asked his friend, Ms Casanova, to stand in for him. She is an art expert and was available to do so.

This group of friends, and this single friend who came down with Covid, have not been identified, and have not come forward to corroborate this version.

Anyway, Frederik and the lady visited the exhibition, which one of our co-posters, who lives in Madrid, has said is nothing special, two small rooms.

Frederik and Genoveva then walked through a park where a photographer recognised her … she is quite well-known there … and took a photo on his phone. He sent that photo to his agency asking who the man was.

A fellow photographer from the agency knew it was Frederik because he, the second photographer, had been the one to take the photos of the Crown Prince family earlier this year when they had a holiday on Chris and Michaela Meehan’s yacht, “Silver Lady”, down on the Spanish island of Ibiza.

From the park four photographers became involved in following the couple and taking photos. It is not known if the couple were aware or not at this stage.

There were security men with them at this point, from the Danish Embassy in Madrid, not the Danish PET officers from Denmark.

The couple went to Ms Casanova’s flat and stayed there from 7.00pm until 9.00pm with the photographers now present constantly until the next day.

The couple changed clothes for the evening and went out to a restaurant. It has been named, but I can’t think of it at the moment.

That restaurant has a flamenco show, but it isn’t reported if they watched it or not. It has been reported that they dined in private behind a curtain with a waiter standing outside.

The flamenco show finished at midnight and the couple remained at the restaurant until 1.00am.

They were then followed back to Ms Casanova’s apartment and the photographers stayed outside in their car until Frederik emerged in the morning at 8.20am.

There was no car present to pick Frederik up in the morning and he was seen walking the street for about ten minutes before using his phone, and then a car from the Danish Embassy came.

He was driven straight to the T4 terminal at the airport, which is for private jets.

Ms Casanova put out a statement threatening legal action, and saying Frederik stayed at an hotel. This was before the series of photos were released the following day.

When the photos showing Frederik had spent the night at her apartment came out, and without security or Embassy protection staff with him, she left her home and went into hiding somewhere.

The couple were photographed entering her apartment a few minutes apart, and not together, as though they may then have been aware of being followed, and didn’t want to be snapped together.

Information has since come out that Frederik was in Madrid for several days, not just the day they were seen.

Also, information that they had met each other previously and not just at the time the friend became ill and needed some-one to step in. It has also been reported that Frederik has gone to Madrid previously.

There are other bits to this such as Ms Casanova not being able to buy the photos to stop their publication, too expensive.

And that the original University friends/friend was a furphy put out by Hola magazine to spoil Lecturas magazine’s exclusive and muddy the waters.

Ms Casanova has photos on her Instagram account of a trip she took to Copenhagen earlier in October.

Some other details are floating about of where the couple actually met … a mutual Mexican friend, or a high class hunting trip in Germany/Austria.

It was big here in Australia when it first came out, TV and radio, but without further developments there is nothing at the moment to fuel the story further.

Ms Casanova may or may not be doing a deal to give her story to Hola magazine, she is said to have a journalist friend there.

There is also a friend of hers with a TV show in Spain who has been reporting, can’t think of her name or show at the moment, but it is in this thread.

I would say our media here in Australia took the view that it wasn’t innocent and that we are “Team Mary”.

I think most of us down here are just sad about it all, gobsmacked when it first came out, and now just sad.

 

[suztav]

Here’s my understanding suztav …

Wednesday morning, here in Australia, it was reported that the Spanish magazine Lecturas had exclusive photos of Crown Prince Frederik and Genoveva Casanova in Madrid while Crown Princess Mary was in the USA on official business.

It was said Frederik went to Madrid with a group of University friends, to see the Pablo Picasso exhibition at a museum there.

The information changed to it then being one friend and that this friend suddenly became ill … Covid … who then asked his friend, Ms Casanova, to stand in for him. She is an art expert and was available to do so.

This group of friends, and this single friend who came down with Covid, have not been identified, and have not come forward to corroborate this version.

Anyway, Frederik and the lady visited the exhibition, which one of our co-posters, who lives in Madrid, has said is nothing special, two small rooms.

Frederik and Genoveva then walked through a park where a photographer recognised her … she is quite well-known there … and took a photo on his phone. He sent that photo to his agency asking who the man was.

A fellow photographer from the agency knew it was Frederik because he, the second photographer, had been the one to take the photos of the Crown Prince family earlier this year when they had a holiday on Chris and Michaela Meehan’s yacht, “Silver Lady”, down on the Spanish island of Ibiza.

From the park four photographers became involved in following the couple and taking photos. It is not known if the couple were aware or not at this stage.

There were security men with them at this point, from the Danish Embassy in Madrid, not the Danish PET officers from Denmark.

The couple went to Ms Casanova’s flat and stayed there from 7.00pm until 9.00pm with the photographers now present constantly until the next day.

The couple changed clothes for the evening and went out to a restaurant. It has been named, but I can’t think of it at the moment.

That restaurant has a flamenco show, but it isn’t reported if they watched it or not. It has been reported that they dined in private behind a curtain with a waiter standing outside.

The flamenco show finished at midnight and the couple remained at the restaurant until 1.00am.

They were then followed back to Ms Casanova’s apartment and the photographers stayed outside in their car until Frederik emerged in the morning at 8.20am.

There was no car present to pick Frederik up in the morning and he was seen walking the street for about ten minutes before using his phone, and then a car from the Danish Embassy came.

He was driven straight to the T4 terminal at the airport, which is for private jets.

Ms Casanova put out a statement threatening legal action, and saying Frederik stayed at an hotel. This was before the series of photos were released the following day.

When the photos showing Frederik had spent the night at her apartment came out, and without security or Embassy protection staff with him, she left her home and went into hiding somewhere.

The couple were photographed entering her apartment a few minutes apart, and not together, as though they may then have been aware of being followed, and didn’t want to be snapped together.

Information has since come out that Frederik was in Madrid for several days, not just the day they were seen.

Also, information that they had met each other previously and not just at the time the friend became ill and needed some-one to step in. It has also been reported that Frederik has gone to Madrid previously.

There are other bits to this such as Ms Casanova not being able to buy the photos to stop their publication, too expensive.

And that the original University friends/friend was a furphy put out by Hola magazine to spoil Lecturas magazine’s exclusive and muddy the waters.

Ms Casanova has photos on her Instagram account of a trip she took to Copenhagen earlier in October.

Some other details are floating about of where the couple actually met … a mutual Mexican friend, or a high class hunting trip in Germany/Austria.

It was big here in Australia when it first came out, TV and radio, but without further developments there is nothing at the moment to fuel the story further.

Ms Casanova may or may not be doing a deal to give her story to Hola magazine, she is said to have a journalist friend there.

There is also a friend of hers with a TV show in Spain who has been reporting, can’t think of her name or show at the moment, but it is in this thread.

I would say our media here in Australia took the view that it wasn’t innocent and that we are “Team Mary”.

I think most of us down here are just sad about it all, gobsmacked when it first came out, and now just sad.

Thank you for the explanation. It seems very odd behavior all around-- is Frederik really that careless? Seems out of character.

I'm also on Team Mary.

 

[Muhler]

Why are you ruling out that the friends don't have explicit permission?

What was said by the Spanish photographer that was so juicy, the part about the presence (or non-presence) of security?


Do you as a supporter of the Danish Royal Family really want that kind of scrutiny? What if it was a corporate jet? IIRC this is what led to the downfall of Felipe's father Juan Carlos, it started off as him getting injured on a hunting trip and things snowballed from there I truly hope that there is nothing untoward going on, but the Danish royals seem (to me) very chummy with the business community.


And yet Crown Prince Frederik goes on a stroll in their front yard with a woman who is a known entity to Spain's gossip press.


I understand you and others taking the position of letting all the information come out before passing judgement. That is usually my default position but to me, and I think many others, they are judging Fred for his reckless disregard, whether it is reckless disregard in not having a discreet affair, or the reckless disregard of walking the streets in a country with an aggressive gossip press, and to top it off with a woman who is best known by that press for her romantic entanglements.

If Fred was the only person who got negative blowback from this incident, that would be one thing, but he has likely cause pain to his children, wife and mother, and has really put his wife in a terrible, terrible position. The wife who, while he was gallivanting around Madrid, was in NYC, working on among other things, Denmark's effort to join the UN Security Council. ?

I'll make my reply brief as I don't wish to repeat too much, what I have already said.

Let me start out by saying that I am a monarchist first, a royalist second. Even without M&F the DRF will survive and continue.

Also, I prefer to be called stubborn, naive and blind before I perhaps prematurely pass judgement on a man who so far and by all accounts has shown himself to be an exemplary family man. It's Frederik's reputation that is on the line.
However, should it turn out to be true that Frederik has had an affair I will let my opinion about that be known here on TRF, you can rest assured about that!
As such I want the truth. If there has been an affair, okay, I'll have to take it from there. If not, then I will breathe a big sigh of relief.
Certainty is better than speculation.

As there are no 100 % proof of an affair, like kissing or at least holding hands, any speculation "proving" infidelity can be countered by an explanation disproving such claim.
And I do that openly. If I see an argument "proving" an affair, I try and see if something else could possibly explain it. Not only because I wish it to be so, but especially because I consider it my damned duty to give Frederik the benefit of doubt before passing judgement.

M&F's friends have never said anything - or they are no longer friends with M&F. That is well known.
Come on! Intimate friends of M&F spilling intimate details to unknown Spanish journalists? I'd rather buy the Eiffel Tower you have for sale than believe that one.

And of course the photographers have an interest in this going big. The bigger the story, the more money they earn.
And please forgive me for not putting too much credit on the personal integrity of professional stalkers.
And that leads me to yet another inconsistency:
The security who followed Frederik and Miss Casanova in the park. First they were Spanish police. Now they are embassy security, but they are not PET officers. - How in the name of the Holy Teapot do they know that?!?
And why would they even care?
Also, the security of the Danish embassy is the responsibility of the Spanish police. Danish security is not detached to embassies unless there is a specific threat (in which case Spanish police would be permanently in place outside the embassy) or there is a war going on in Spain right now. And if there were, they would not leave their posts to follow Frederik around. He would be surrounded by PET officers and Spanish police.
If, repeat if, there is an affair and PET knows about, then their Spanish counterpart knows about it - because it could lead to blackmail or kidnapping. So Miss Casanova would be checked.
If PET knows then the Danish Minister of Justice knows about it. If the Minister knows, the Danish Prime Minister knows and then the Chief of Court probably knows as well. - Frederik may have an affair, but it's still PET's job to protect him while he is having it.

Another thing that pussle me.
Frederik and Miss Casanova returned to her apartment around 01.00, correct?
Considering that they probably didn't jump straight into bed, but brushed teeth and turned around three times before going to sleep, it would at the very earliest be around 01.30 before falling asleep.
Frederik emerged on the sidewalk at 08.30 the next morning. If we give him time to wake up, get a shower, get dressed, pack his suitcase and at the very least say goodbye to Miss Casanova (skipping breakfast), he would have had to wake up no later than around 08.00. That's max 6½ hours of sleep.
Okay, if we say they did have an affair, then this would have been the last night they would be able to spend together for at least some time. You'd think they would use the opportunity to wear the sheet thin, both at night and in the morning, right? That would have to be a couple of very quick quick ones if they were to get any sleep worth mentioning. After all, isn't it pretty normal to have a cuddle and a pillow talk afterwards with the one you are passionate about?
Now it's claimed that he has been in Madrid for several days and several times. But where are the eye witnesses? Surely someone somewhere must have noticed him, otherwise it's just an unverifiable claim.
Once again, where is the evidence?
There are too many details that are presented as the gospel truth, but doesn't really add up when given a closer look.

However, we can certainly agree on Frederik being in a most unfortunate situation, also if innocent, for no other fault but his own.
As such I think Frederik owes at least the Danes (but also Miss Casanova) an explanation. What was he doing in Madrid?
Because so long as there is reason for serious doubt this reflects badly on Frederik, the DRF and ultimately Denmark, because one of our stronger cards in regards to promoting DK and Danish commerce, is team M&F. That card now has a few dents in it, but if the DRF try to silence this away (won't work) the card will end up pretty tattered!
I'm pretty sure Danish Industry and the Ministry of Commerce isn't exactly clapping their hands right now!

 

[A Tudor]

Here’s my understanding suztav …

Thanks for such a lengthy and detailed explanation.

Whether they have an affair or not, Frederick has already exposed his wife (and family) in a way he really shouldn't. Even if it was all very harmless, the optics are just really bad and has put him in the defense.

I hope Mary and the kids are alright and Frederick has learnt his lesson well.

 

[tommy100]

Yes, I see this as almost two separate but connected issues - Frederik's naivety in his confirmed actions - and then the issue of whether there is more going on.

I'm sorry but staying at a female friends house, just the two of you, when you are a Crown Prince is stupid. There may be nothing wrong going on - hey maybe Fred is tying to show economic frugality by staying with a friend. But if he didn't think it would look odd and raise questions then he is very very stupid (no other word for it)

Going away and leaving the children while Mary is on a work visit shows another side of Frederik - it shows me he isn't the hands on father he has been made out to be.

Being friends with Casanova in the first place seems like a bad call IMO, even if we say Fred was being magnanimous, knowing her history as someone who seems to quite like fame, and quite likes other people's men, staying at her house was very silly. Add to that, Fred's own rumours in past of liking to party with women.

Those are all based on the very minimum facts we know about this trip and show a worrying lack of judgement and understanding by Frederik. If there is even a hint of truth to the notion of an affair then we are in completely different territory.