Engagement of Princess Beatrice of York and Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi: September 26, 2019

[antonieta]

Congratulations to the Couple and their families.

 

[Winnie]

Always liked Beatrice and Eugenie and thought they always got a bad rap from the media. Am so happy for Beatrice and sincerely pray that their marriage will be a long, happy and healthy one.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I know that Beatrice didn't need permission from HMQ to marry, but I am 100% certain that she spoke to her grandmother to notify her prior this announcement.

Did Edo go to Balmoral with Beatrice with last month?

 

[Pranter]

I don't remember any pics of Edo at Balmoral.



LaRae

 

[Dman]

Well, Beatrice has come a long way. Now she’s getting married and about to become a stepmother. I wish her nothing but a lifetime of happiness.

 

[rob2008]

This website states "Although he enjoys the title of "Count" he is a British subject and technically cannot use a foreign title in this country. Foreign styles and titles were confined to those who received a Royal Warrant from King George V in 1932."

https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/2018/11/count-edouard-mapelli-mozzi-princess.html

I think one 'holds' a title of nobility - not 'enjoys'.

The 1932 royal warrant presumably applies only to the BRF? There is no legal restriction on 'holding' or 'enjoying' a foreign title in the UK.

There is no such thing as a 'British subject'. Those with British nationality are 'British Citizens'.

 

[JR76]

We know Edo is Italian and English but for the Danish readers of this forum, his father's maternal grandmother, Betty (Jeppesen) Stoppani, was born in Thisted, Denmark on 28 August 1896.

Here's a link to her baptismal record:
Thisted parish, Hundborg, Thisted - Churchbooks

That's an interesting twist. I wonder how the daughter of a Danish small-town sculptor ended up as the mother of an Italian countess

 

[Heavs]

I think one 'holds' a title of nobility - not 'enjoys'.

The 1932 royal warrant presumably applies only to the BRF? There is no legal restriction on 'holding' or 'enjoying' a foreign title in the UK.

There is no such thing as a 'British subject'. Those with British nationality are 'British Citizens'.

Well he doesn't technically "hold" the title of Count either considering it was abolished in Italy and legally un usable in the UK. If he wanted to use it socially like many descendants of abolished thrones or noble houses he probably could, but he doesn't seem to feel the need.

 

[MsJulie]

Of course I cannot find the article I read recently, but I am sure someone here knows who is ‘up on royal titles....I read that Edo’s dad is a Count, however Edo cannot inherit the title because the title in now defunct.

Does anyone know for sure?

Also, with that, can, if, and will the Queen give Edo a title, especially if he comes from a royal family line? I know he can accept or reject any titles.

Bea and Edo look so happy and loving. Beatrice looks so pretty and I love the silly shots....she is beautiful in all! I hope who ever guided her in choosing the engagement dress helps her choose her wedding dress. I want to see her in a beautiful dress that keeps her glowing.

 

[ACO]

Congrats to Bea and Edo.

Another royal wedding.

 

[Pranter]

Of course I cannot find the article I read recently, but I am sure someone here knows who is ‘up on royal titles....I read that Edo’s dad is a Count, however Edo cannot inherit the title because the title in now defunct.

Does anyone know for sure?

Also, with that, can, if, and will the Queen give Edo a title, especially if he comes from a royal family line? I know he can accept or reject any titles.

Bea and Edo look so happy and loving. Beatrice looks so pretty and I love the silly shots....she is beautiful in all! I hope who ever guided her in choosing the engagement dress helps her choose her wedding dress. I want to see her in a beautiful dress that keeps her glowing.

"Although he enjoys the title of "Count" he is a British subject and technically cannot use a foreign title in this country. Foreign styles and titles were confined to those who received a Royal Warrant from King George V in 1932."

I also read the title is defunct in Italy due to an act of Government decades ago abolishing titles.

Very unlikely he will receive a title from The Queen. They are not working royals and no expectation of them being so later.


LaRae

 

[Heavs]

The Queen isn't going to give Edo a title just because his father's family used to have one. Jack also comes from an aristocratic background (cadet line) and wasn't offered one. I can't think of anything that would make the Yorks more unpopular.

If he cared to style himself "Count" he could and people would probably use it socially just as with many defunct houses, but he doesn't.

 

[Gawin]

I think one 'holds' a title of nobility - not 'enjoys'.

The 1932 royal warrant presumably applies only to the BRF? There is no legal restriction on 'holding' or 'enjoying' a foreign title in the UK.

There is no such thing as a 'British subject'. Those with British nationality are 'British Citizens'.

.

Enjoy/hold - Nitpicking.

British subject/citizen - Michael Rhodes (Peerage News) simply copied the term used in George V's original warrant. At that time British citizens were British subjects.

George V's warrant restricted foreign titles of nobility held by British subjects/citizens. A British citizen can hold or enjoy a foreign title but the title isn't officially recognized.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/foreigntitles.htm#1932

Royal Musings: British titles, etc: the rules ARE Hard and Fast

 

[An Ard Ri]

Congratulations to Princess Beatrice of York and (Count?) Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi!

 

[Pranter]

None of the official release uses his family title...which may or may not be intact.



LaRae

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Well he doesn't technically "hold" the title of Count either considering it was abolished in Italy and legally un usable in the UK. If he wanted to use it socially like many descendants of abolished thrones or noble houses he probably could, but he doesn't seem to feel the need.

Of course I cannot find the article I read recently, but I am sure someone here knows who is ‘up on royal titles....I read that Edo’s dad is a Count, however Edo cannot inherit the title because the title in now defunct.

Does anyone know for sure?

As Heavs explained, the title is legally defunct because it is Italian. When the constitution of the Italian Republic took effect on January 1, 1948, it abolished titles of nobility in Italy.

An overview of the state of affairs from an expert in Italian nobility:
Recognition of Italian Nobiliary Titles - Regalis

It is no crime to use a legally defunct title socially (which many Italian families do), but, as Gawin's link explains, it would not be legally recognized in Britain (or in Italy). Furthermore, Mr. Mapelli Mozzi himself has never felt the need to use a title of pretense even in his social life.

 

[Gawin]

None of the official release uses his family title...which may or may not be intact.


LaRae

Probably because the title (even if intact) isn't officially recognized in Britain, per George V's 1932 Warrant.

Edo can call himself a Count but in the eyes of the British government he's just Mr. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Probably because the title (even if intact) isn't officially recognized in Britain, per George V's 1932 Warrant.

Edo can call himself a Count but in the eyes of the British government he's just Mr. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi.

He is likewise just Mr. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi in the eyes of the Italian government (see the link above in message #78 as well as the Constitution of Italy).

However, the lack of official recognition is probably not the reason for not using the title, as the British Court has always been amenable to using titles which have no official recognition. For example, the guest list for the 2011 royal wedding service lists "King Constantine and Queen Anne-Marie of the Hellenes", among other abolished titles.

 

[Mari-Anne]

Wow, what a wonderful news! Love the engagement photos.
Congratulations and best wishes!!!

 

[Duchessmary]

A splash of happiness in an otherwise grim world! Joy to the couple, and that ring is knock-out!!

 

[Mademoiselle Lilo]

Great news,a royal wedsing to look forward
Congratulations to the couple

 

[Gawin]

He is likewise just Mr. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi in the eyes of the Italian government (see the link above in message #78 as well as the Constitution of Italy).

However, the lack of official recognition is probably not the reason for not using the title, as the British Court has always been amenable to using titles which have no official recognition. For example, the guest list for the 2011 royal wedding service lists "King Constantine and Queen Anne-Marie of the Hellenes", among other abolished titles.

So presumably the British Court doesn't use the title because Edo himself doesn't?

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Louise and James are from the next generation, not this.

No, Louise & James are first cousins with Peter, Zara, William, Harry, Beatrice & Eugenie so same generation.

 

[Mey]

So presumably the British Court doesn't use the title because Edo himself doesn't?

Its not legally recognised in the UK.

 

[Princess Larisa]

Wow, I’m very surprised by this. With Harry and Meghan I was sure they would get engaged as soon as she moved to The UK, Eugenie and Jack were totally expected, but with Beatrice and Edo I thought they would wait until 2020 and a wedding in 2021.
I like Beatrice and I hope this is the real deal for her. And of course, I can't wait to see the dress and tiara.

 

[Mey]

Its a good age for Bea to have some time as newlyweds then start a family

 

[Gawin]

Its not legally recognised in the UK.

Yes, we've discussed that. But see Tatiana Marie's previous post which points out that the British Court uses other titles that aren't officially recognized (or example King of the Hellenes). That's who my question was directed to.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...-september-26-2019-a-46771-4.html#post2255543

 

[Somebody]

Congrats to the couple!

It's rather quick (although it seems they've known each other for a long time) and with a young boy in the midst of it, I hope all will be well for all involved (including Wolfie's parents being on speaking terms - it has been a bit more quiet over the last several months, so hopefully that means the issues they clearly had are somehow resolved).

 

[theroyalfly]

Edo's caption in his Instagram post:


'You will never be alone my love, my heart is your home. Hand in hand, today, tomorrow and forever. ��'


Such a sweet dashing man.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B23wOreghd7/

 

[carlota]

fantastic news! delighted for beatrice and looking forward to the next royal wedding! i assume we will see something similar to eugenie's wedding in windsor, or they may wish to do something a bit different given that both eugenie and jack and harry and meghan recently married there - who knows, but can't wait to hear more.