Duties, Roles and Royal Training of the Princes

[Iluvbertie]

It is totally unfair to class Beatrice and Eugenie as underperforming when they haven't yet finished their education. At their ages William was still being protected by the press agreement about no reporting while he was a student at St Andrews. Beatrice has another year at uni to go and Eugenie two or three years.

As it is perfectly possible that they are not going to be expected to work full-time as royals - as the royal family cuts down the number of members - they may actually be getting full time jobs leaving little time for royal duties anyway.

As for the rest of the Commonwealth I don't know but here in Australia the majority of the population are able to feel quite good about ourselves without some foreigners coming and waving and smiling at us as if we were inferior to them - keep them in Britain please.

You don't seem to get it though - British royal men have all done something other than royal duties in their 20s during the 20th Century - Edward VIII, George VI, Duke of Gloucester and Duke of Kent, Charles and Andrew all spent the majority of their 20s in the military and William and Harry are no different (Edward and Charles were also the direct heirs during those years). The present Earl of Wessex spent his 20s working for a living and not on royal duties and that is very much the way of the future I think with the York girls going to be working not waving at people.

Camilla isn't invisible but supports her husband at many of his engagements and does increasingly more on her own but of course she wouldn't be doing as many as his first wife as she has another family to spend time with and isn't it refreshing to see a royal who insists on putting family first (just like Diana - who put the boys first and I am sure would approve of Camilla putting being a grandmother first).

The Queen has four children who work for her and the country as well as her cousins and her husband. The country doesn't need the royals in their 20s to do royal duties yet and maybe never. The more British press I read the more I believe that the British public would prefer that only William takes on royal duties as a full time job in a number of years - when he is the heir to the throne.

Harry will have a lengthy career in the army - like Andrew had in the navy - the advantage of being the 2nd son. Harry won't be a full time royal until his 40s or even later depending on how good an officer he really is but certainly I would expect him to be in the army for another 20 years appearing on rare occasions like Andrew did throught the 80s and 90s.

Beatrice has gone on tours with her father but I really think that her future and that of her sister is going to be far more minor appearances with full time careers elsewhere as the public demands a cut-down royal family and having fly-by-night celebrities do the work that once required a royal (if it can really be called work anyway).

I do think that many British people do need to really look at the ages of the York princesses and realise that these two young ladies are still full time students and that they should be allowed to at least finish their degrees, as William was allowed to do, without being hounded all the time. Timing would suggest that if Beatrice is going to be a full-time working royal that the Diamond Jubilee celebrations of her grandmother would be the launching year - finished her education and, like William, have another gap year (William had two - one after school and one before entering the army while Harry's lasted nearly two years after leaving school and Beatrice had one after leaving school so another one after leaving uni wouldn't be a surprise).

Diana insisted on giving her sons a 'normal' upbringing and Sarah followed suit with her daughters and everyone applauded. Now they have to allow them to finish their 'normal' upbringing which in their class and position of wealth means gap years after school and increasingly after uni before starting work.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Wonderful response IluvBertie, everything I would have tried to say.

 

[platinum69]

Absolutely, Her Majesty should and will carry on. I am not sure an abdication is an acceptable choice for her and the way her dedication to the Monarchy is

 

[Iluvbertie]

I remember Charles at William's age and he was seen as the 'bright young thing' and the 'hope of the monarchy' due to his popularity and hard work, particularly having set up The Prince's Trust and the quantity of work he was doing for the Queen. Of course he was the heir but William has done nothing much at all in his 28 years in comparison to Charles, who had already left the military and was a full time royal. Charles was seen to have a lot of substance in his late 20s and then he married the wrong woman and things went wrong for him but he is returning to some of the popularity that he had then - of course he will never regain that popularity because of the Diana effect (unfortunately).

 

[muriel]

Lets also not forget that Charles grew up in a different time, with people in general were a lot more deferential, and there was a lot less media intrusion. William cannot step out to buy groceries without having CCTV images being sold to the tabloids. I suspect in view of William's position as heir to the heir, and the presence of a number of other active royals, HM and Prince Charles are happy for William to continue in the armed forces. I am confident that when the time comes for William to take on his royal duties on a full time basis, he will make a success of them. As of now, IMO, it is just a bunch of disgruntled tabloid journalists complaining as a way to fill up pages. IMO There would have been a reasonable chance that William would have come for criticism for not spending enough time in the armed services from these very same people had he taken up royal duties instead of joining the SAR!!!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

William doesnt strike me as somebody who is keen on he job, maybe understandable, and he is happy to use the military career for not having to commit on anything, be it royal duties or Kate. Plus, he (and Harry) doensnt seem to be the sharpest knives in the drawer so to say, while I believe that Charles is actually intelligent, a deep thinker. For me William is more on the superficial side, like his mother, and while she was brilliant with people, I rather see him as distant Windsor when he gets older.

Many young royals were struggling, eg Haakon of Norway or Frederik of Denmark, who openly admitted their doubts. William doesnt seem much different, but what lies ahead will be much tougher. My bet is that if he could lead a different life, without the task, the media and the past that will confront him for the rest of his life, he would.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

William doesnt strike me as somebody who is keen on he job, maybe understandable, and he is happy to use the military career for not having to commit on anything, be it royal duties or Kate. Plus, he (and Harry) doensnt seem to be the sharpest knives in the drawer so to say, while I believe that Charles is actually intelligent, a deep thinker. For me William is more on the superficial side, like his mother, and while she was brilliant with people, I rather see him as distant Windsor when he gets older.

Many young royals were struggling, eg Haakon of Norway or Frederik of Denmark, who openly admitted their doubts. William doesnt seem much different, but what lies ahead will be much tougher. My bet is that if he could lead a different life, without the task, the media and the past that will confront him for the rest of his life, he would.

Although he is heir to the heir, not commiting to anything is truly a waste of life. Education is necessary, but he is never going to be able to do tasks for which he has been trained. They are far too dangerous.

There is nothing to stop William leading a different life. Being in line to the throne does not preclude a person from being who they want to be or doing what they want to do. However, I don't think he'd be strong enough to step out on his own.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Education is necessary, but he is never going to be able to do tasks for which he has been trained. They are far too dangerous.

Very true, same goes for Harry. Hopefully their position as search and rescue / helicopter pilot are in addition to budget, otherwise they only take away somebody elses place, who would actually do full work in his profession, incl the risky part.

No Royal who will be Head of State one day will need such a detailed training over several years, usually the 1-2 year pro forma thing will do. In Williams case, IMO he uses the education to escape commitments, although tolerated by his family.

 

[Iluvbertie]

My understanding is that the British taxpayers are paying for this training and they are taking up places and resources that could be better utilised unless they are truly going to serve.

William's role is easier as he can serve from home and not under fire but the weather and conditions under which these guys work will be dangerous - it is the nature of the job and if he isn't going to be used in that way then the British public have a right to insist that he repay the costs of his 5 years of military training - yes he has been training for most of the last 5 years, having started in 2005 at Sandhurst with short times off from training for 'experiential' service with the navy and airforce.

Harry has spent most of the last 6 years in training, with a short stint of actual service with the Blues and Royals but mainly simply training (while others who trained with him have been serving continually).

If they aren't going to do what they have been trained for then the British public are being ripped off by these young men and should demand a full refund.

However I do think that the BRF have looked at ways that they can serve and thus they will finally do something with the years of training - William serving for the next three years in the SAR and Harry returning to Afghanistan to kill as many Afghanis and others as he can from his Apache attack helicopter.

 

[muriel]

Each of us have our own views on this. IMO, most of us British people expect young royals like William and Harry to serve in the armed forces for some time. There is a slight contradiction in this, as we would also like to see them undertaking royal duties. Clearly there is a balance to strike between how much time is spent in the armed forces and at what stage somebody like William takes on full time royal duties. Sure, there will be an outlay on his training, but we can't really expect him to join the armed forces and not be trained. IMO, any complaints about the cost of training William are really indicative of a thought process that is perhaps not as well developed as it could be.

 

[Iluvbertie]

It is the fact that he has spent 5 years doing training rather than that he did some training and some service. No one would have objected had he left the military, as intended in 2008 or if he had stayed in the army and done some form of service there - even if it had been simply desk work or posting to Germany realising that he is too precious to be risked in a war zone - despite the other sons and grandsons of HM subjects being risked in such a place and dying for the country.

It is the fact that he has just continued training and not actually serving for half a decade so far. It is the length of the training time and the fact that others are dying but he can't be sent into danger that is upsetting people - and rightly so in my opinion.

I see no reason why he and Harry shouldn't be doing a full tour of duty in Afghanistan while they are in the service. There is no where in the world safe from terrorism and they will always be targets so why not send them to combat, if that is what they are trained to do.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Bertie, I agree. Prince Henry was sent to Afghanistan and was enjoying actually working (or so I read) and was yanked out of the combat zone. I'll bet that wasn't what he expected and might have even been embarrassing for him.

You are positively correct on PW's excessive training. I'm sure the majority of British subjects would never mind footing the bill for all that training if he's going to do something with it. Had he not already been to regular university?

 

[Iluvbertie]

In Britain the vast majority of candidates who enter Sandhurst have already completed degrees elsewhere, unlike Harry who hadn't. Sandhurst isn't like the WestPoint that also gives them a degree.

 

[muriel]

It is the fact that he has spent 5 years doing training rather than that he did some training and some service. No one would have objected had he left the military, as intended in 2008 or if he had stayed in the army and done some form of service there - even if it had been simply desk work or posting to Germany realising that he is too precious to be risked in a war zone - despite the other sons and grandsons of HM subjects being risked in such a place and dying for the country.

William did an initial period of training until 2008, and then decided to join the SAR. Clearly the training required for the SAR is specialist in nature and I am sure everybody who joins the SAR is trained specifically for the task.

No one would have objected had he left the military, as intended in 2008 or if he had stayed in the army and done some form of service there

Odd as it may appear, but I do not see any objections (outside from a select few on TRF) either in the mainstream UK press or amongst the UK public in general as to the specifics of the military careers of William and Harry.

I see no reason why he and Harry shouldn't be doing a full tour of duty in Afghanistan while they are in the service. There is no where in the world safe from terrorism and they will always be targets so why not send them to combat, if that is what they are trained to do.

I think this is an issue that was discussed quite extensively when Harry returned from Afghanistan. IMO, there is little doubt that capturing, killing or even injuring a senior member of the BRF on the ground in Afghanistan would lead be a siginificant coup for the Taliban and one they would certainly attempt. This will invariably put other members of the armed forces serving alongside the princes under undue risk, and that is one that the armed forces commanders are unwilling to take. I think Harry has been quite clear in his desire to return to Afghanisatan and serve alongside his fellow troops.

 

[texankitcat]

... sorry but I dont believe that there will be much substance to William, let alone Kate.

You don't think William has much substance? What evidence do you have that supports that? Diana raised those boys to care for those that are not as fortunate, and she made sure they were exposed to the suffering of others so they would have an understanding of what their position is in Society, which is to support and help those less fortunate. Both William and Harry have done admirable work in the charities their mother supported as well as taken on their own charitable organizations.

As taken from their website:

As Patrons of their Foundation, Prince William and Prince Harry want to make a difference in three particular areas:
1) Young People - particularly those of their own age and younger who are disadvantaged or in need of guidance and support at a crucial time in their lives;
2) Environment - particularly to build on the growing awareness of the need to find better, more sustainable, models to balance development and the conservation of resources;

3) Armed Forces - for the welfare of those who serve their country in the Armed Forces. Particularly looking after those who return broken in body or mind - or not at all - and their families.
Through their Foundation, The Princes aim to help fund these causes.
The Future
In January 2010 Prince William said: “We are incredibly lucky, Harry and I. We know that. But both our father and our mother instilled in us, from the word go, that with these great privileges goes an absolute responsibility to give back”, and Prince Harry said: “We are both massively excited at the prospect of being able to help in whatever way we can, where we can. As Prince William said, if we can use our position to do this, we are ready to.”

That doesn't appear to me to be two men without substance. IMO of course.

 

[Iluvbertie]

And this is exactly what royals have been doing for over 100 years at least - helping those less fortunate. They are not breaking new ground or doing anything special, for royals.

This is not proof of having substance as it is so what they should be doing and nothing more. I haven't read or heard of anything that they have done that is special or out of the ordinary. What they have done is raised awareness by doing things that they enjoy - when they do it by getting their hands dirty I might thing they actually are doing subtantial but in the meantime they simply come across as two extremely spoilt men who think - 'I want to do this but how can I do it and not get criticise for it? I know. I will link it to some good cause and then people will think it is ok'.

 

[laura24]

True!!

 

[Russophile]

They are not breaking new ground or doing anything special, for royals.
.

So Bertie, what, in your opinion, would be groundbreaking?

 

[Mermaid1962]

And you know this how?

military training that he has mainly used to escape duty and the attention of the public.

 

[texankitcat]

And this is exactly what royals have been doing for over 100 years at least - helping those less fortunate. They are not breaking new ground or doing anything special, for royals.

This is not proof of having substance as it is so what they should be doing and nothing more. I haven't read or heard of anything that they have done that is special or out of the ordinary. What they have done is raised awareness by doing things that they enjoy - when they do it by getting their hands dirty I might thing they actually are doing subtantial but in the meantime they simply come across as two extremely spoilt men who think - 'I want to do this but how can I do it and not get criticise for it? I know. I will link it to some good cause and then people will think it is ok'.

I really don't understand what exactly you expect of them? Charles digs in the dirt and talks to plants. Does that mean he has more substance?

William slept in a sleeping bag on a piece of cardboard for a night with the homeless. His comments about the experience? "I hope that by deepening my understanding of the issue, I can help do my bit to help the most vulnerable on our streets." Would you say that is substance? Or would the fact he slept on a piece of cardboard instead of in a dumpster with cockroaches, rats and smelly rubbish make him nothing more than a spoiled Royal brat in your opinion?

Yes, Royals have been doing charitable work for generations. However, there is showing up in expensive clothing and giving a speech, and then there is getting really involved and seeking to truly understand. Diana made sure they understood what suffering was and what it means to truly involve yourself.

I think if you spent a few moments researching what these two young men have done rather than dismissing them as "extremely spolied" or basing your opinions on gossip mags, you would have a better idea of what substance they DO have.

 

[kakieanne]

Agree texankitcat - both of these young men are men of substance.

PH has Sentebale which he has faithfully supported. A few years ago, he showed such compassion for a baby girl who had been raped that he has taken on the responsibility for personally paying for her education. And I have seen pictures of him showing such compassion and respect to badly injured servicemen.

And no one forced PW to sleep outside with the homeless. He did it out of compassion. It takes a man of character to leave his warm home and spend a long, miserable, cold night to show that he cared and to try to make a difference.

PW is now doing Search and Rescue - helping to save lives, which probably isn't that easy a job. It's all hours, all kinds of weather and it's unlikely every story will have a happy ending. And PH is learning how to fly (is the Apache?) because that's the only way he will be allowed to return to Afghanistan and he seems determined to return. That doesn't sound like two spoiled young men who are only thinking about themselves.

 

[texankitcat]

Agree texankitcat - both of these young men are men of substance.

PH has Sentebale which he has faithfully supported. A few years ago, he showed such compassion for a baby girl who had been raped that he has taken on the responsibility for personally paying for her education. And I have seen pictures of him showing such compassion and respect to badly injured servicemen.

And no one forced PW to sleep outside with the homeless. He did it out of compassion. It takes a man of character to leave his warm home and spend a long, miserable, cold night to show that he cared and to try to make a difference.

PW is now doing Search and Rescue - helping to save lives, which probably isn't that easy a job. It's all hours, all kinds of weather and it's unlikely every story will have a happy ending. And PH is learning how to fly (is the Apache?) because that's the only way he will be allowed to return to Afghanistan and he seems determined to return. That doesn't sound like two spoiled young men who are only thinking about themselves.

Thank you Kakianne. It's a shame that others are so quick to jump on the royal bash wagon without giving a fair assessment based on facts. You make an excellent arguement with your point about their service. Since they are both directly in line to the throne, they could have easily bypassed dangerous assignments. I am sure the Queen prefers that they had. They WANT to be where they are needed and are most useful. They could serve their military careers getting cushy, safe assignments. Instead they are completely involved and committed, working alongside their comrades rather than above them. I find that admirable, and far removed from the picture of spoiled royalty.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

And you know this how?

If William was keen on royal duties, he wouldnt do such detailed military training over many years (much longer than needed and too focused for his future job) that in the end will never serve any purpose.
Its handy for him to get away from it all and be out of the media spotlight as much as possible. If he wanted to work as a royal even though he is not heir to the throne, he could. He does little and what he does seems forced upon him because he cant hide behind the military all the time, especially as the public has to foot the bill for his pointless search and rescue training.

Sorry Zonk, please move to the respective thread

 

[Mermaid1962]

I think that it's good that the future Head of State has so much training in the Armed Forces. We'll have to agree to differ.

If William was keen on royal duties, he wouldnt do such detailed military training over many years (much longer than needed and too focused for his future job) that in the end will never serve any purpose.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Hear, hear! The Wales brothers were criticized for falling drunk out of nightclubs. Fair enough. Now they're both actively serving their countries, and they're still being raked over the coals for not doing enough. I say let these young men do "normal" work and some royal duties until their father ascends the throne.

Thank you Kakianne. It's a shame that others are so quick to jump on the royal bash wagon without giving a fair assessment based on facts. I find that admirable, and far removed from the picture of spoiled royalty.

 

[laura24]

I think that it's good that the future Head of State has so much training in the Armed Forces. We'll have to agree to differ.

Well maibe if we where living in the XVII Century i will agree. Now at this time is a waste of money. He will never go to war, he should be working in the bank of England for example, specially in this time the head of state must be aware of the economic problems of the country, or in some kind of international organitation, learning about, Law, politics, even languages, THAT is a modern king.I always thoght William would be like JFK but in royalty, it was a mistake for my part. Even Charles shows that he cares a bit. And i don´t believe the story noo William is joung hi is not the heir of the throne... he had the world at his feet..

 

[Mermaid1962]

Going to war isn't the point. As Head of the Armed Forces, it's good that he knows something about each of the branches.

We don't know what Prince William will do in the future. For now, I think that he's doing the right thing. Being a "modern king" in William's context IMO being able to reach out to people, know something about their lives, and want to serve them. To me, he is showing that in the work that he does both in terms of his current job and the charitable and official appearances that he makes.

He's still the heir to the heir to the throne. I think that there were people--not meaning you, laura24, who wanted him to step into his mother's place as soon as he turned 18 and/or take on the duties of the heir to the throne. That's not his position.

Well maibe if we where living in the XVII Century i will agree. Now at this time is a waste of money. He will never go to war,t..

 

[Lumutqueen]

Well maibe if we where living in the XVII Century i will agree. Now at this time is a waste of money. He will never go to war, he should be working in the bank of England for example, specially in this time the head of state must be aware of the economic problems of the country, or in some kind of international organitation, learning about, Law, politics, even languages, THAT is a modern king.I always thoght William would be like JFK but in royalty, it was a mistake for my part. Even Charles shows that he cares a bit. And i don´t believe the story noo William is joung hi is not the heir of the throne... he had the world at his feet..

Just because he's never going to war doesn't mean he shouldn't understand what every soldier will go through when he/she goes to the front line.
If we had another war and William was our King, i'd be proud to have him as the head of our armed forces because he knows what his soldiers have to go through.

He's worked in a bank before, before the recession, and he might work in one after his military training. But at the moment with the stories about the "Queen crying poverty" if William was working in the financial section it would cause more havoc.

William has time to work for the UN, EU or learn about Law or Politics if he wants. But to be frank you don't need those to be a good King, Elizabeth doesn't have anything like that, Charles doesn't have any kind of degree or traning from a foreign organisation.

He HAS the world at his feet, he can do what he likes to help his life as a royal if he wanted. But if his interest lies in flying helicopters then why can't he continue doing that?

 

[laura24]

Just because he's never going to war doesn't mean he shouldn't understand what every soldier will go through when he/she goes to the front line.
If we had another war and William was our King, i'd be proud to have him as the head of our armed forces because he knows what his soldiers have to go through.

He's worked in a bank before, before the recession, and he might work in one after his military training. But at the moment with the stories about the "Queen crying poverty" if William was working in the financial section it would cause more havoc.

William has time to work for the UN, EU or learn about Law or Politics if he wants. But to be frank you don't need those to be a good King, Elizabeth doesn't have anything like that, Charles doesn't have any kind of degree or traning from a foreign organisation.

He HAS the world at his feet, he can do what he likes to help his life as a royal if he wanted. But if his interest lies in flying helicopters then why can't he continue doing that?

I don´t live in Britain, but happends that with the economy situation, with all the cuts, people having to pay more taxes, it is very stupid to be 4 or 5 years "training" with the peoples money.
He is 28, he is not the heir to throne, but he is a prince, what is he witing?? to be 40?

When did he work in a bank? he was going to but as far as i now he never whent.

Both CHarles and Elisabeth lived in another time, when Royals had to nothing except smile and do things for others. We live in another time, royals had to do more than fly helicopters. He is young and he is not at the same time, Maibe when he tries to do something different its to late, people doasen´t care anymore.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I don´t live in Britain, but happends that with the economy situation, with all the cuts, people having to pay more taxes, it is very stupid to be 4 or 5 years "training" with the peoples money.
He is 28, he is not the heir to throne, but he is a prince, what is he witing?? to be 40?

When did he work in a bank? he was going to but as far as i now he never whent.

Both CHarles and Elisabeth lived in another time, when Royals had to nothing except smile and do things for others. We live in another time, royals had to do more than fly helicopters. He is young and he is not at the same time, Maibe when he tries to do something different its to late, people doasen´t care anymore.

I have no idea what he is waiting for, but why does he have to rush into something, why does he have to marry now, have children in the next few years? Why can't he live his life just a little longer?

I remember seeing pictures and hearing he was working in a bank, i'll try and find the information.

Both Elizabeth and Charles, are still alive. Just because they lived in another time doesn't mean you change what is needed to be a good monarch. Neither Elizabeth nor Charles has training in law, politics or at such an organisation as the EU or UN and Elizabeth has been the finest monarch for the UK and the commonwealth I have ever seen. Charles will follow in his mothers footsteps whenever that is. William will do the same. He will be told what he needs to know, by his father, his grandmother and his advisers. Why should he get extra degree's in politics and law, why should be travel to the UN or EU. Might look good for him, but I see no point in it.

Whatever William does, he will be critisized for wasting taxpayers money.