Duties and Roles of Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie 1: Discussion Until 2022

[Iluvbertie]

The HRH goes currently, under the 1917 and 2012 LPs to:

The children of the monarch - Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward
The male line grandchildren of the monarch - William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Richard, Edward (Kent), Michael and Alexandra
The children of William - George (was the eldest son of the eldest son of the PoW - so still George but the Queen pre-empted a girl not having HRH by the issuing of LPs specific to William's children).
The spouses of male HRH's - Camilla, Kate, Sophie, Brigitte, Katherine and Marie-Christine

Louise and James are a different situation because there is debate about whether or not the fact that The Queen's will was made known is enough to strip them of HRH - and experts in the field disagree as to whether they are HRH's and not using it or whether they are in fact not HRH's at all following the decision announced in 1999. The opinions are: The Queen has made her will known and that is enough - that the 1999 announcement at the time of Edward's marriage was enough and that no actual LPs are needed while others argue that LPs are needed. As they will probably never use the HRH and can't pass it on it really is a mute point.

Beatrice and Eugenie can't pass it on as they are girls - like Anne and Margaret who is/was the daughters of a monarch - their children aren't HRH because they are girls (even when The Queen as heiress presumptive to the throne in 1948 was expecting Charles new LPs had to be issued to give all her children HRH or Charles would have been born as Lord Charles Mountbatten, Earl of Merioneth - taking his father's second title as a courtesy, and Anne would have been born as Lady Anne Mountbatten and then the would have become HRH Prince/Princess when The Queen became The Queen)

 

[GracieGiraffe]

The HRH goes currently, under the 1917 and 2012 LPs to:

The children of the monarch - Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward
The male line grandchildren of the monarch - William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Richard, Edward (Kent), Michael and Alexandra
The children of William - George (was the eldest son of the eldest son of the PoW - so still George but the Queen pre-empted a girl not having HRH by the issuing of LPs specific to William's children).
The spouses of male HRH's - Camilla, Kate, Sophie, Brigitte, Katherine and Marie-Christine

Louise and James are a different situation because there is debate about whether or not the fact that The Queen's will was made known is enough to strip them of HRH - and experts in the field disagree as to whether they are HRH's and not using it or whether they are in fact not HRH's at all following the decision announced in 1999. The opinions are: The Queen has made her will known and that is enough - that the 1999 announcement at the time of Edward's marriage was enough and that no actual LPs are needed while others argue that LPs are needed. As they will probably never use the HRH and can't pass it on it really is a mute point.

Beatrice and Eugenie can't pass it on as they are girls - like Anne and Margaret who is/was the daughters of a monarch - their children aren't HRH because they are girls (even when The Queen as heiress presumptive to the throne in 1948 was expecting Charles new LPs had to be issued to give all her children HRH or Charles would have been born as Lord Charles Mountbatten, Earl of Merioneth - taking his father's second title as a courtesy, and Anne would have been born as Lady Anne Mountbatten and then the would have become HRH Prince/Princess when The Queen became The Queen)

Now I know I'm off topic here - but if the Queen issued LP's to make all Will's kids HRH's would she not have issued LP's to strip James and Louise?

Sorry mods!

 

[Ish]

Now I know I'm off topic here - but if the Queen issued LP's to make all Will's kids HRH's would she not have issued LP's to strip James and Louise? Sorry mods!

I always figured she left it deliberately vague so that if one day the Wessex kids want to use the HRH they can without people being (overly) bothered by her (or Charles) issuing new LPs on the matter.

 

[tommy100]

i've always believed there were 2 reasons why the Queen didn't issue LPs for Louise and James for two reasons (both just IMO):
1) if the Queen had issued LPs for future Wessex children people might have questioned why not do it for all but Charles's children (i.e. why not strip Beatrice and Eugenie of their titles).
2)leading on from this i think the Queen treats all her grandchildren equally and, as things stand all her grandchildren are (I know there is a debate on this point but maybe the Queen sees it as) equal as all are technically Prince/Princess.
Utlimately not issuing LPs means it becomes a choice for those concerend rather than an order, I'm sure equally Beatrice and Eugenie could if they really wanted to say they are to be called Lady Beatrice/Eugenie of York or Beatrice Windsor or Eugenie Mountbatten-Windsor.

 

[Ish]

if the Queen had issued LPs for future Wessex children people might have questioned why not do it for all but Charles's children (i.e. why not strip Beatrice and Eugenie of their titles).

A lot of people seem to think that Charles intends on doing just this when he's king, limiting HRH to the monarch's spouse, children, and the heir's children (as well as the wives of the above). This would strip the Kents, Gloucesters, Yorks, Wessexes, and any children Harry has.

2)leading on from this i think the Queen treats all her grandchildren equally and, as things stand all her grandchildren are (I know there is a debate on this point but maybe the Queen sees it as) equal as all are technically Prince/Princess.

While I agree that the Queen treats her grandchildren pretty equally (although, I think William, in particular, and Harry do get some extra special treatment because of their positions), not all of her grandchildren are Prince(ss)es. Peter and Zara are most definitely not, as they are female-line descendants. I believe when he was born Peter was the first (acknowledged) grandchild of a monarch to be born without any title whatsoever in a very long time.

Utlimately not issuing LPs means it becomes a choice for those concerend rather than an order, I'm sure equally Beatrice and Eugenie could if they really wanted to say they are to be called Lady Beatrice/Eugenie of York or Beatrice Windsor or Eugenie Mountbatten-Windsor.

If they chose to not use their proper titles, they would be Lady Beatrice/Eugenie Mountbatten-Windsor, like any other unmarried daughters of a Duke.

 

[tommy100]

While I agree that the Queen treats her grandchildren pretty equally (although, I think William, in particular, and Harry do get some extra special treatment because of their positions), not all of her grandchildren are Prince(ss)es. Peter and Zara are most definitely not, as they are female-line descendants. I believe when he was born Peter was the first (acknowledged) grandchild of a monarch to be born without any title whatsoever in a very long time.

Whoops. forgot about Peter and Zara, but my point still stands, the Queen IMO did not want to be seen to take titles from some gradchildren whilst letting other keep them. She has left things as they were (for her grandchildren at least - she did change the rules for William's children and titles) for her grandchildren and not made special rules for one set over another.

 

[USAPolitics]

On the Princess Beatrice front, I now myself (and I am a huge Beatrice fan!) find it very hard to believe that HRH has any sort of full time job--internship or not. This week, she has:

- Had a number of engagements on Monday at the Isle of Wight
- The very next day, she attended the first day of Ascot (and blew everyone away with how gorgeous both she and Princess Eugenie looked)
- Today, the very next day, she jumped on a helicopter to open a £9million academy extension in Holbeach


This week appears to be a clear sign that the Princess is slowly but surely gearing up for a more involved royal role (or at least they are clearly testing the waters). HRH even arrived at her engagement today via the Queen's helicopter. Source

Very interesting to see!

 

[USAPolitics]

Without any criticism to HRH Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, but looking at the roster of events that Princess Beatrice has done this week--I wonder has the Duchess had as busy a week full of engagements like this recently (outside of tours)? She often gets criticism for being lazy, yet Princess Beatrice who isn't a "full time working royal" at all seems to be a bit more busy than Catherine this week. Just an observation.

On the Princess Beatrice front, I now myself (and I am a huge Beatrice fan!) find it very hard to believe that HRH has any sort of full time job--internship or not. This week, she has:

- Had a number of engagements on Monday at the Isle of Wight
- The very next day, she attended the first day of Ascot (and blew everyone away with how gorgeous both she and Princess Eugenie looked)
- Today, the very next day, she jumped on a helicopter to open a £9million academy extension in Holbeach


This week appears to be a clear sign that the Princess is slowly but surely gearing up for a more involved royal role (or at least they are clearly testing the waters). Very interesting to see!

 

[soapstar]

Well this week, Kate's attended Trooping, the Garter ceremony and today she visited Bletchley Park. So yes, she's been just as busy as Beatrice this week.

Good to see Beatrice out and about. It definitely appears that she's slowly becoming involved in more royal duties.

 

[cepe]

i really think that Beatrice should do f/t royal duties. The current situation is confusing. Today she had use of the royal helicopter and the LL of Lincs was present. Now that seems official to me.

Its as if she is slowly being brought to the countrys attention doing this work, probably because William is not going full time. If this is the case, there would be fallout against William and prob. Catherine. and sadly, also Beatrice because the sins of the parents impacts on her public persona. very unfair IMO.

Frankly if she is happy to support the Queen, then let her.

Just thought, perhaps one of the older royals, DoK?? Is going to retire.

 

[HighnessN]

It's clear that the palace seems to have a bit of a dilemma coming up with roles for the Queen's titled grandchildren (I excluded Zara & Peter because their lack of titles and the way they live their lives makes it clear that they will not become full time royals, they may support the Queen here & there)
William, Harry, Beatrice & Eugenie are just trying to fit in without stepping on any toes.

It's good to see Bea out and about, the older royals have had a few health problems recently.

Just a question, were Beatrice's engagements announced before hand? I know the Duke of York rarely announces his engagements before hand (something to do with relationship with media?)

 

[cepe]

It's clear that the palace seems to have a bit of a dilemma coming up with roles for the Queen's titled grandchildren (I excluded Zara & Peter because their lack of titles and the way they live their lives makes it clear that they will not become full time royals, they may support the Queen here & there)
William, Harry, Beatrice & Eugenie are just trying to fit in without stepping on any toes.

It's good to see Bea out and about, the older royals have had a few health problems recently.

Just a question, were Beatrice's engagements announced before hand? I know the Duke of York rarely announces his engagements before hand (something to do with relationship with media?)

None of Beatrices engagements are offical so not mentioned on the royal web site or CC. The media are told in advance and they tell the world via twitter. DoY office also tweets his engagements

 

[soapstar]

I don't think her increased engagements are because William may not go full-time yet. I think the Palace is just realizing that they need Beatrice. Some of the older royal are not going to be able to keep working at the same level, and William, Kate and Harry can't carry it all. Having Beatrice and Eugenie there to help pick up the slack would really help.

I do agree that if Beatrice starts doing more engagements than the Cambridges (and Harry), there will be fallout. If William doesn't go full-time, than he and Catherine will at least need to up their engagements.

 

[HighnessN]

Thanks Cepe
I asked because one of the journalists said its difficult to cover the Duke of York because his engagements are not announced before hand, only the day before. Was not sure if it was true.

 

[suztav]

I think (IMHO) that a few thing are very clear:

1.) Too many people are picking on Beatrice and Eugenie because of their mother. These seem to be two very well grounded young women. Whatever you may think of their mother (and father) ... one thing is for sure -- they did a good job in raising their children.
2.) The # of appearances/patronages expected of the royal family make it almost impossible to think that Charles, Camilla, William, and Catherine will be able to fulfill all of them without any assistance from the "lesser" crowd -- specifically, Harry, Andrew, Edward, Sophie, Anne, Beatrice, Eugenie. Right now -- the Queen, DofE, the "Wales" family, Prince Andrew, Prince Edward/Sophie, Anne, the DofKent, Princess Alexandra, the Duke and Duchess of Gloucesters, and even the Michael Kents -- ALL carry out event on behalf of Her Majesty. There is no way that 4 people can assume the work of that group --- not even close!

 

[Osipi]

One thing that strikes me is that both Beatrice and Eugenie go about doing their charities and patronages and engagements happily whether or not they are "officially" representing the Queen or make the CC.

They have no ulterior motive (such as being a full time working royal for the Firm) nor do they do it for the press attention and the spotlight on them for personal glory and recognition.

To me, this speaks volumes as to the character of these two young women.

 

[rmay286]

On the Princess Beatrice front, I now myself (and I am a huge Beatrice fan!) find it very hard to believe that HRH has any sort of full time job--internship or not. This week, she has:

- Had a number of engagements on Monday at the Isle of Wight
- The very next day, she attended the first day of Ascot (and blew everyone away with how gorgeous both she and Princess Eugenie looked)
- Today, the very next day, she jumped on a helicopter to open a £9million academy extension in Holbeach


This week appears to be a clear sign that the Princess is slowly but surely gearing up for a more involved royal role (or at least they are clearly testing the waters). HRH even arrived at her engagement today via the Queen's helicopter. Source

Very interesting to see!

I like Princess Beatrice too, but I think her internship is probably over. Some internships only last a few months. It seems like she really would like to be a full-time royal, and why not? She's enthusiastic and willing, and you can tell from the photos that children enjoy meeting her.

 

[cepe]

Because it will cost more money in transport and security. IT could happen if (say) DoKent retired.

The Queen already uses her own income to pay for royal engagements.

 

[Al_bina]

I think (IMHO) that a few thing are very clear:

1.) Too many people are picking on Beatrice and Eugenie because of their mother. These seem to be two very well grounded young women. Whatever you may think of their mother (and father) ... one thing is for sure -- they did a good job in raising their children.
2.) The # of appearances/patronages expected of the royal family make it almost impossible to think that Charles, Camilla, William, and Catherine will be able to fulfill all of them without any assistance from the "lesser" crowd -- specifically, Harry, Andrew, Edward, Sophie, Anne, Beatrice, Eugenie. Right now -- the Queen, DofE, the "Wales" family, Prince Andrew, Prince Edward/Sophie, Anne, the DofKent, Princess Alexandra, the Duke and Duchess of Gloucesters, and even the Michael Kents -- ALL carry out event on behalf of Her Majesty. There is no way that 4 people can assume the work of that group --- not even close!

As it has been stated and emphasised numerous times, Prince and Princess Michael of Kent do not and will not undertake engagements on behalf of the royal family. It would be nice to streamline the family. Prince Charles, his current spouse, and his children can step up the effort.

 

[rmay286]

It's interesting though because if Beatrice has been using the royal helicopter, it seems like the Queen must be quietly supporting her work. I wonder why so many of her engagements aren't "official?"

I wonder also if there will be more of this in the future. I noticed that Sarah accompanied Andrew to will.i.am's L.A. two months ago, which Andrew was visiting for his iDEA program. Most of his work related to iDEA is listed on the Court Circular, but not this event. Yet it was publicized all over his website, Facebook account, and Twitter. So what really is the difference between an 'official' and 'unofficial' royal event...could someone enlighten me?

Also, it's been noted that Charles and his sons should carry more of the royal workload, but there are no signs that they're going to become full-time royals any time soon. Maybe William feels that if he's going to wait as long as his father to become king, he should continue his helicopter career as long as possible.

 

[Ish]

As it has been stated and emphasised numerous times, Prince and Princess Michael of Kent do not and will not undertake engagements on behalf of the royal family. It would be nice to streamline the family. Prince Charles, his current spouse, and his children can step up the effort.

Actually, Prince and Princess Michael do undertake engagements on behalf of the Queen, just very, very few. So far this year, the Prince has done 5, while the Princess has done 4 (according to iluvbertie's count of the CC). If they get recognition in the CC then it counts as an engagement on behalf of the Queen.

 

[Ish]

I wonder also if there will be more of this in the future. I noticed that Sarah accompanied Andrew to will.i.am's L.A. two months ago, which Andrew was visiting for his iDEA program. Most of his work related to iDEA is listed on the Court Circular, but not this event. Yet it was publicized all over his website, Facebook account, and Twitter. So what really is the difference between an 'official' and 'unofficial' royal event...could someone enlighten me?

An official engagement is undertaken on behalf of the Queen or representing the Queen and as such receives official recognition in the CC. Unofficial engagements are not on behalf of the Queen and do not receive CC recognition.

Andrew may not have received recognition in the CC because he was in LA and not there on an official visit. That would be my theory; you can't really represent a foreign monarch if you're not in a country on behalf of that monarch.

I think with Beatrice and Eugenie two things are happening. One is that they're not getting recognition for some engagements because they're "fun" engagements as opposed to more strictly charity types. While others might get recognition for these types of engagements, it is with the expectation that it's not all they do. Not to say that this is all they do, just that it's what they're most noticed for (it would be like if every event William was seen at was a polo game or movie premier).

The other is that if they get official recognition for more of the work that they do, regardless of the nature of it, they risk out shining the Cambridges and Harry. Regardless of where you stand on whether or not these three should be doing more, it wouldn't look good if their numbers were being matched or surpassed by the Yorks. The main line needs to be seen as doing more official work than side branches.

 

[Ish]

It's clear that the palace seems to have a bit of a dilemma coming up with roles for the Queen's titled grandchildren (I excluded Zara & Peter because their lack of titles and the way they live their lives makes it clear that they will not become full time royals, they may support the Queen here & there)
William, Harry, Beatrice & Eugenie are just trying to fit in without stepping on any toes.

Peter and Zara, regardless of how they live their lives, are not going to become working royals simply because they are not royals. They hold no royal titles, nor are they eligible to hold titles (in contrast to Louise and James, who are eligible to hold but do not hold royal titles).

 

[rmay286]

I think with Beatrice and Eugenie two things are happening. One is that they're not getting recognition for some engagements because they're "fun" engagements as opposed to more strictly charity types. While others might get recognition for these types of engagements, it is with the expectation that it's not all they do. Not to say that this is all they do, just that it's what they're most noticed for (it would be like if every event William was seen at was a polo game or movie premier).

The other is that if they get official recognition for more of the work that they do, regardless of the nature of it, they risk out shining the Cambridges and Harry. Regardless of where you stand on whether or not these three should be doing more, it wouldn't look good if their numbers were being matched or surpassed by the Yorks. The main line needs to be seen as doing more official work than side branches.

I understand that they might not be representing the Queen at movie premieres and fun events, but Princess Beatrice's recent engagements have all been fairly serious ones, along the lines of what other royals do...visiting schools and unveiling plaques.

I also understand that of course, for public appearances, William, Kate and Harry should be doing the most engagements, but if they're not doing a lot of engagements, why should Beatrice be kept back? If anything, Beatrice getting involved should spur William and Harry to do more, not the other way around.

 

[Al_bina]

Actually, Prince and Princess Michael do undertake engagements on behalf of the Queen, just very, very few. So far this year, the Prince has done 5, while the Princess has done 4 (according to iluvbertie's count of the CC). If they get recognition in the CC then it counts as an engagement on behalf of the Queen.

It is kind of you to let me know about the official engagements Prince and Princess Michael undertook. At the same time, TRF members pointed out time and again in the Prince and Princess Michael thread that the couple are members of the extended family, who do not do any engagements on behalf of the royal family.
As stated earlier in this thread, I strongly believe that Prince Andrew's daughters should be prepared to be the members of the extended family and carve a career without royal duties.

 

[Roslyn]

One thing that strikes me is that both Beatrice and Eugenie go about doing their charities and patronages and engagements happily whether or not they are "officially" representing the Queen or make the CC.

They have no ulterior motive (such as being a full time working royal for the Firm) nor do they do it for the press attention and the spotlight on them for personal glory and recognition.

To me, this speaks volumes as to the character of these two young women.

Well said!

They are two charming young women who always look happy to be doing what they're doing. I think they are a valuable resource to the RF and have been under-utilised so far. Perhaps that is about to change.

 

[rmay286]

I just saw this article about Princess Beatrice's visit to the Isle of Wight. She met young entrepreneurs, so maybe she is following in her father's footsteps in promoting entrepreneurship?

I totally agree that Beatrice is an under-used royal asset. Her fashion sense is debatable, but she seems to have great people skills and be very willing to please.

Young Isle of Wight entrepreneurs meet HRH Princess Beatrice

 

[duchesschicana]

Interesting convo going on about Princess beatrice duties and future role going on at twitter
https://twitter.com/WindsorEditor/status/479196754836197377

 

[duchesschicana]

https://twitter.com/WindsorEditor/status/479310521498624000

 

[Iluvbertie]

It is kind of you to let me know about the official engagements Prince and Princess Michael undertook. At the same time, TRF members pointed out time and again in the Prince and Princess Michael thread that the couple are members of the extended family, who do not do any engagements on behalf of the royal family.
As stated earlier in this thread, I strongly believe that Prince Andrew's daughters should be prepared to be the members of the extended family and carve a career without royal duties.

Prince and Princess Michael don't do engagements on their own though - they attend events with other royals but not solo - which is the same, currently at any rate, for Beatrice and Eugenie who when they do things solo don't get a mention in the CC e.g. in 2012 Eugenie presented medals at the Paralympics - no mention in the CC but when Kate did the same thing she was mentioned.