Discussion About Frederik and Mary's Prenuptial Agreement

[Madame Royale]

Hope Princess Mary is different, I really think she is!

I think its safe to assume that Mary is Mary & Alexandra is Alexandra My guess would be that the closest thing they have in common is being foreign born.

But then again, I'm not much aware of the nature of their relationship (polite & friendly I'm sure).

 

[Ctejnoe]

The re-negoitation of the pre-nup came as a suprise and while, outwardly, it may seem that Mary's benefits are being downgraded, I think we can all see that she really isnt.
Alexandras house cost 7 million kr's. That it a HUGE slice of what the danish royal family have of funds. No, they're not poor, but they are the "cheapest" royal house in Europe and are far from the richest people in Denmark.
And Mary, being mother to the heir, would never be forced to downgrade to a two room flat at the outskirts of copenhagen as us other mere mortals.
She will always live according to her station...and Denmark would never agree to see her being treated with less than the utmost respect.
I read somewhere that the danish royal family has 15 million $. Wow, no! They have 15 million kr...circa 2 million dollars.
I dont think we have to worry about her after a divorce (lets hope it never happens!).

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Wow, no! They have 15 million kr...circa 2 million dollars.

I remember the story when the queen dismissed her chef (or he quitted) because she said that she and her husband could well eat a microwaved second portion of that day's lunch at night in front of the TV. As much as I'm a foodie by delight (and profession) I thought it quite reasonable what the queen demanded. I always cook double portions of opur favorite dishes (though I reheat them on the stove and not in the microwave) and my family delights in having the same tread a second time with a freshly prepared salad added. But of course I use my china and not plastic microwavable plates to serve the reheated dishes (which was claimed by the chef that the queen wanted to use and which I disbelieved...There is no advantage in these plastic plates once you own the real stuff...)

So - the queen is an employer who has to make do with her allowance and while this allowance allows for a certain lifestyle, it should be greeted by her subjects that she is trying to cut down on her spending habits in a reasonable and somehow modest way. I'm glad Mary obviously thinks along the same lines.

The re-negoitation of the pre-nup came as a suprise and while, outwardly, it may seem that Mary's benefits are being downgraded, I think we can all see that she really isnt.
Alexandras house cost 7 million kr's. That it a HUGE slice of what the danish royal family have of funds.

Well, one hopes that it will go back to them via the boys the way Diana's divorce settlement was inherited by her sons - which doesn't make much difference for William, but might help the POW/the queen when it comes to an allowance for prince Harry.

 

[Tricota]

Very interesting, all this. According to Hello Magazine, Alexandra's divorce nearly bankrupted poor Joachim, who was forced to sell that lovely old inn he's running in the village he's living in, in order to pay for Alexandra's little city palace. Looks like he's got the wrong end of the stick here indeed. No wonder he's careful with women nowadays....

That is indeed true and even that wasnt apparently enough. The inn Schackenborg Slotskro, was part of Joachims estate.

Why? And can't the government say we're not going to pay her for being an ex-wife of the prince? I know it won't affect Joachim's personal finances but why is Alexandra getting a government check along with alimony, child support and a mansion from her ex-husband?

Well, lets get one thing clear, she only gets child support from Joachim, standerd rate at about 75.000 Dkr a year. No alamony is given, though as already established he did pay for the house and a one time sum of money.
She gets an apanage from the state, because she is still very much a part of the Royal Family and still has a title. She still represents the Royal Family at functions and as such the parlament thought that she should get paid, like the rest of the family.

At the time of the divorce there were also other things to consider. She was the mother to Prince Felix and Nicolaj and in case Frederik and Mary didnt have any children, she could still be the mother of the future king. As such she would still need to be part of the Roual House. But without any money, and with her extensive experience, she would have had no problem taking and actual job in a privare company. From time to time companies and headhunters claim in the press that she could easily get a high paid job, if she wanted to. But that would of couse look pretty bad. Especially if she became the mother of the future King.

The fact that she has of lete, but less representetive in Royal duties is not really her fault. The Royal Family and more acurate the Quenn decides what araengement she goes to and the queen is in afect still her boss. And if the queen doesnt give her anything to do, there is really nothing Alexandra can do about it.

 

[Aquarela]

I must say I was unhappy with this news. No matter what people say this decision reflects a bad situation between members of the DRF.

Hola magazine refered, some days ago, th fact that Mary and Frederik have separate agendas almost all the time. Maybe the Queen decided this re-negotiation in order to avoid spend too much with another divorce, IMO.

 

[Tricota]

I must say I was unhappy with this news. No matter what people say this decision reflects a bad situation between members of the DRF.

Hola magazine refered, some days ago, th fact that Mary and Frederik have separate agendas almost all the time. Maybe the Queen decided this re-negotiation in order to avoid spend too much with another divorce, IMO.

So does the Queen and the Prince. They may arive together, but they normaly do seperate things...In fact most royals do that, Besides, if they were about to have a nasty devorce, why would Mary sign? And it has only been a few years. They cant be tired already....No doubt the hand of the Queen is behind this, but I doubt it is because of an imminent divorce...

 

[laurixa]

Hola magazine refered, some days ago, th fact that Mary and Frederik have separate agendas almost all the time. Maybe the Queen decided this re-negotiation in order to avoid spend too much with another divorce, IMO.

They have separate agendas since the begin of their marriage, I doubt that they have problems since then.
i think is very common in the Danish Royal Family to have separrate agendas, for example Queen Margrethe and prince Henrik usually have more acts separate than together. for Hola that´s is rare because the spanish royal family it´s all the contrary that the DRF, usually the King Juan Carlos go with Queen Sofia, Prince Felipe with prrincess Letizia, etc.

PS: Hola tend to exagerate a bit (in my opinion), if not look at the title of the article of Hola who said : The broken promise of prince Frederick.

 

[ricarda]

The fact that she has of lete, but less representetive in Royal duties is not really her fault. The Royal Family and more acurate the Quenn decides what araengement she goes to and the queen is in afect still her boss. And if the queen doesnt give her anything to do, there is really nothing Alexandra can do about it.

Do you know that for sure?
I personally think that there is some sort of coordination between the different members of the RF and their staffs.
But I strongly doubt it is handled the way you put it.
I strongly doubt that the Queen tells each member of the RF exactly what to do.
They are not marionette puppets after all, they have their own minds.
(For example, when Mary got an invitation for the 50th jubilee concert of the DRC,
it was declined by her chief of court and later accepted by herself.)

It might be that Alexandra gets less invitations than before
but she is still patron of 24 organisations - with the blessing of the queen of course.
IMO she could do a lot more work.
But actually, despite everything that has been written about the "busiest royal"
Alexandra never really worked that much.
In the first few years it was enough that she was there and looking pretty.
She clearly benefited from the fact that she was the first princess in Denmark after a long time
and after Diana's death one of very few princesses around.
All of a sudden she started to work more but now it seems to me
her workload in the years 2004/2005 was not representative, but in fact exceptional.

 

[auntie]

All in all, Alex seems to come out of this like a shrew, which brings to mind the original question, why did they divorce?

 

[Madame Royale]

I must say I was unhappy with this news. No matter what people say this decision reflects a bad situation between members of the DRF.

Hola magazine refered, some days ago, th fact that Mary and Frederik have separate agendas almost all the time. Maybe the Queen decided this re-negotiation in order to avoid spend too much with another divorce, IMO.

I find it interesting that many base their opinions on gossip mags (I notice Hola gets brought up quite often than not). Hardly anything to go by really.

I wouldn't agree with your statement at all, Aquarela (respectively). I don't believe this reflects a bad situation within the Danish Royal family. Not at all.

Perhaps you haven't noticed the recent photos of the Crown Princely couple's visit to Australia? The obvious togetherness between both Mary and Frederik?

And, I doubt that Frederik would have spent a week with Mary's family (remembering he flew out first) if infact things weren't great.

This is just a precautionary measure (Again, it is very responsible and appropriate), and one that I'm ceratin has affected those outside the institution, moreso, than those who constitue it.

 

[Maycastle]

I think that it is very sad that Mary was asked to sign a new pre-nup. I assume that she did not come up with the idea for the change herself as her rights have been downgraded somewhat. Around the time of the wedding, I was surprised that there was a prenup as initally all of the Australian newspapers made a huge splash about "Fred promising half of his kingdom". About a day after the wedding, that changed when they realised that there was a late filing of a prenup.

I understand that Mary came from a different world with no assets of her own so it was wise for Fred to protect his birthright, but why change it two years later? It's insulting to the woman who is mother to a future king and pregnant with another child. She has been totally professional over the past few years and an asset to the DRF.

 

[Madame Royale]

as her rights have been downgraded somewhat.

Not really, Maycastle.

In the event of a divorce (which I really don't think will happen ), Mary will be well provided for, infact, she shall be very well provided for by the Danish State.

Only a couple of passages were removed from the inital pre-nup. Nothing drastic and there would have been no major redraftings of the initial document.

What was removed...

1. That Prince Frederik should pay for a 'new suitable home' in the event of a divorce.

2. A clause saying Frederik had to pay a one-time sum of money to his wife as a supplement to her new household.

Some have made mention, and I am in agreeance, that Mary's position within the royal family is now firmly certified since the birth of Christian.

Mary would not need a "new suitable home", as a palatial residence would certainly be provided in the event of a divorce and that the costs of her household would then hence forth be met by the state and not by her ex-husband.

See, I do see Mary and Alexandra's respective situations as being somewhat different in the knowledge that Alexandra was never going to be Queen Consort, Mary is and she shall be the mother of a monarch also.

So the amendments are, I think, not an insult to the Crown Princess, rather that they exhibit Mary's worth within the instiution. And now, we are not all that aware of what exactly Mary would be entitled too. A smart move I think.

 

[UserDane]

The Danish tabloid B.T. now has another take at the change in the pre-nup. At their website http://www.bt.dk/article/20061206/ROYALT/612060302
they have this article today (my translation:

Mary and Frederik enter secret pre-nup





CP Mary has nothing to fear. Should she divorce Frederik she will, according to a secret 'divorce contract' be ensured a life of luxury according to B.T. today.



Mary will get plenty of money, driver, bodyguards, a »suitable« dwelling and maintain most of her priviliges.

This is the uniform assessment from a number of lawyers – all specialising in family law– whom B.T. has talked to.

Last week, Ekstra Bladet brought a front-page story about CP Frederik introducing a »miser clause« in a new pre-nup relieving him of the obligation to pay for a house and money for Mary in case of a divorce.

Ekstra Bladet' story which was quoted in almost all Danish media established that the new pre-nup »weakens Mary«, and that the royal family have learned their lesson after »Alexandra fleeced Joachim«.

The truth is quite different - according to B.T. today.

According to the many lawyers and other sources whom B.T. has spoken with, Mary's position has not been deteriorated following the new pre-nup. The first pre-nup was changed for one reason only: That it wasn't legally binding.

Lawyer Ulrik Grønborg, Århus and expert at family law: »The first pre-nup which was registered between Frederik and Mary has always been somewhat of a joke in judicial circles. Normally, a pre-nup does not say that »she shall have a suitable dwelling in case of divorce«.

 

[Madame Royale]

Thank you UserDane

So really, in the event of a divorce, life would consist of...

More than sufficient funds, a driver/chauffer, bodyguards, a suitable dwelling (my interpretation of that would be a palatial residence, or, part of), and most of the priviliges Mary now experiences as Crown Princess.

Now for what wasn't mentioned...

To our Danish members, could Mary be made a Princess of Denmark in her own right? What title do you believe Mary would assume?

 

[UserDane]

To our Danish members, could Mary be made a Princess of Denmark in her own right? What title do you believe Mary would assume?

Must admit that I'm not quite sure whether she would, or if it is possible - in the very hypothetical event of a divorce ; and as to the title I guess we would be just as surprised as we were with Alexandra's titel, Countess of Frederiksborg.

Countess of Gråsten? of Fredensborg? of Marselisborg - if they would use a place with a castle. Rosenborg is sort of ruled out in this connection I think.
Countess of Copenhagen!
​

 

[Tricota]

The Danish tabloid B.T. now has another take at the change in the pre-nup. At their website http://www.bt.dk/article/20061206/ROYALT/612060302
they have this article today (my translation:

Mary and Frederik enter secret pre-nup





CP Mary has nothing to fear. Should she divorce Frederik she will, according to a secret 'divorce contract' be ensured a life of luxury according to B.T. today.



Mary will get plenty of money, driver, bodyguards, a »suitable« dwelling and maintain most of her priviliges.

This is the uniform assessment from a number of lawyers – all specialising in family law– whom B.T. has talked to.

Last week, Ekstra Bladet brought a front-page story about CP Frederik introducing a »miser clause« in a new pre-nup relieving him of the obligation to pay for a house and money for Mary in case of a divorce.

Ekstra Bladet' story which was quoted in almost all Danish media established that the new pre-nup »weakens Mary«, and that the royal family have learned their lesson after »Alexandra fleeced Joachim«.

The truth is quite different - according to B.T. today.

According to the many lawyers and other sources whom B.T. has spoken with, Mary's position has not been deteriorated following the new pre-nup. The first pre-nup was changed for one reason only: That it wasn't legally binding.

Lawyer Ulrik Grønborg, Århus and expert at family law: »The first pre-nup which was registered between Frederik and Mary has always been somewhat of a joke in judicial circles. Normally, a pre-nup does not say that »she shall have a suitable dwelling in case of divorce«.

Which is pretty much what I said. Even though the prenup might weeken her situation, she really has nothing to fear, and they have made sure she would get everything comming to her, especially if a divorce came wile the kids were still young. There is no way they would let her live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere. There are plenty of Royal Palaces for her to use and plenty of people willing to pay. She will still get all of that of they divorce. Now its just nor the Royal Family that pays, but the state. Fitting, since they hardly have any money themselfs...

 

[Madame Royale]

Must admit that I'm not quite sure whether she would, or if it is possible - in the very hypothetical event of a divorce ; and as to the title I guess we would be just as surprised as we were with Alexandra's titel, Countess of Frederiksborg.

Countess of Gråsten? of Fredensborg? of Marselisborg - if they would use a place with a castle. Rosenborg is sort of ruled out in this connection I think.
Countess of Copenhagen!





​

Thank you UserDane

Its interesting because there are no Dukes or Duchesses in Denmark are there? I've always found this interesting. I wish there were.

Something like Duchess of Christiansborg (of course I know this could not come to fruition).

I would hope (though I really dont know of course) it would be something other than countess, hence my asking if its possible that Mary could be created a Princess of Denmark in her own right.

Of course this is all hypothetically speaking and I, personally, don't think it will happen

 

[Little_star]

The DRF hasn't said anything to claim that these stories aren't true, hae they? Are they likely to?

In the event that they haven't I'm inclined to believe the story printed by Elkstrabladet. I'm not Mary's biggest fan, but I think such revisions are an absolute disgrace and quite insulting to Mary.

 

[Madame Royale]

The DRF hasn't said anything to claim that these stories aren't true, hae they? Are they likely to?

Discreation is the Danish Royal family's best friend, Little_star

 

[Lasse Pedersen]

I would hope (though I really dont know of course) it would be something other than countess, hence my asking if its possible that Mary could be created a Princess of Denmark in her own right.

In my mind, there is no doubt that HRH Crown Princess Mary would remain Princess of Denmark in the event of a divorce, just as HH Princess Alexandra has remained one. Moreover, she would probably also be granted a title of countess. However, I wonder if she would maintain her title as Royal Highness!

But again, let's hope we'll never find out!

/Lasse

 

[Madame Royale]

In my mind, there is no doubt that HRH Crown Princess Mary would remain Princess of Denmark in the event of a divorce, just as HH Princess Alexandra has remained one. Moreover, she would probably also be granted a title of countess. However, I wonder if she would maintain her title as Royal Highness!

But again, let's hope we'll never find out!

/Lasse

Thanks Lasse.

But again, let's hope we'll never find out!

And I'm sure we shall not

 

[Sereta]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Mary will have a better situation than Alexandra since she'll get to stay in one of the palaces, not just a house somewhere. She'll still be part of the royal family and the state will provide her with funds to live nicely on. Whatever they did for Alexandra, they'll do even better for Mary as the mother of the heir. And I think she'll probably get a better title than just Countess of something.

The person I'd be concerned with is Joachim's future 2nd wife (if he re-marries). If they divorce he won't have much to give her thanks to Alexandra wiping him out.
What if he's married to wife #2 for ten years and they have 2 (or more) kids as well but she ends up with a worse deal than Alexandra just because she came after her. It doesn't seem fair.
And I don't see why the state can't reduce Alex's appanage according to how many duties she performs.

 

[Tricota]

And I don't see why the state can't reduce Alex's appanage according to how many duties she performs.

Of couse they can. Just as they can with the normal apanage for the rest of the family. But its not just something that will happen over night. It will take a number of years, even if she does not work that much. And perhaps also a public pressure from the people. And even so, there is the question of weather we really want the mother of prince Felix and Nicolaj to actually work for a living, in a private company?

 

[Fashionista100]

Boy, times change. I remember when Alex could do no wrong and everyone thought Mary was the "golddigger." I don't think Alex took advantage of Joachim at all. First off, they both had lawyers. If his lawyer had half a brain he would have told him to put in monetary amounts. Joachim knew Alex could pick any house she wants. Two, Joachim is not destitute b/c of the divorce. Three, Alex still works, she has worked long and hard for Denmark. If she wants to take it slow for a year or two to recoup, so be it. Her own home is not overly extravagant. It had to be remolded and furnished. Security needed to be upgraded for her and the children. There are very few places they could have gone. She needed a place in the capitol for work. She is very involved in her charities. Now is Mary's time and Alex is stepping aside for the time being and taking care of herself. She's earned it. No one worked as hard as Alex for Denmark for years after she came on the scene. Alex wouldn't take advantage of Denmark and Denmark wouldn't leave Alex in the cold.

 

[LadyK]

I don't think we have anything to worry about. Mary and Fred aren't going anywhere- they are best friends and lovers, as well as partners in work and life.

Mary will always be provided for, as she is the mother of the heir. I tend to think of her like Princess Diana (although happier), with her many charities and her obvious popularity, (as well as her fashion ). She will always be in the public eye, will continue to attend gala events, and work with charities and her patronages, and have other appearances. She will always have a place in Danish society and in the hearts of Danes and Aussies, and royal-watchers everywhere. She will get plenty of money, security, and a home befitting Prince Christian, as heir to the throne, and Prince/Princess X. She will never live in a shack, but I don't think she'll live in Amalianborg or Fredensborg or the other main palace, but she will live in a palace. The Danes have enough to share.

 

[H.M. Margrethe]

Should she divorce they would most likely put her up in Sorgenfri Castle which has been vacant since late 90's and also suitable for the mother of the heir.

Besides I doubt we will have any statements from the Royal Family whatsoever regarding this matter. Total silence is more likely.

I don´t think that Mary woud have Sorgenfri Castle as home if they ever split (i honestly don´t ever hope that it will happen).
The reason for her not living in Sorgenfri Castle is that it is alredy occupied by Frederiks second cusin Count Christian and his wife countess AnneDorthe.
They are living in the carstle and i don´t think i woud be nice for either Mary or them to see eathother..

 

[Madame Royale]

and everyone thought Mary was the "golddigger."

I don't remember this to be honest

 

[Toledo]

I don't think we have to worry about Mary and Frederick getting a divorce...ever. Their circumstances are quite different when compared with other royal and/or princely couples. Seems so far that both are doing a good job handling work, family, the in-laws on both sides and the ever present army of paparazzis. They have a coolness like no other couple we discuss here. I think of a Brad and Angelina jet set style would come close to describe their looks and style. She reminds me so much of a vintage Emma Peel (from the TV series The Avengers).

 

[Tricota]

I don´t think that Mary woud have Sorgenfri Castle as home if they ever split (i honestly don´t ever hope that it will happen).
The reason for her not living in Sorgenfri Castle is that it is alredy occupied by Frederiks second cusin Count Christian and his wife countess AnneDorthe.
They are living in the carstle and i don´t think i woud be nice for either Mary or them to see eathother..

Thats true. However they dont live in the actual house. They live in a side wing seperate from the house called Damefløjen, "ladies wing". So I guess it could happen. Or perhaps Count Christian could be moved to one of the apartments at Amalienborg. I still hope they will in time use one of the buildings at Amalienborg only for apartments. But I guess it is a money thing.

There was actually talk about Alexandra living there, but from the few articles I read about, noone was really that happy about the idea.

Also, I understand from Niels Peter Stilling's book about the Danish Royal Palaces, there is still a great deal of renovation needed. Only the exterior has so far been dealt with, where as the interior still stands untouched from when Princess Caroline Mathilde died in 1995. The last renovation of the interior was, again acording to the book, in 1950.

But I imagen a further renovation will happen, and it is planed as being part of the royal families houses. But for whom is still unsure.

 

[Her_Majesty]

Marriage Contract

I just heard something about the new marriage contract Mary had to sighn.
It sound really strict...
In a case of a divorce Mary wouldn't get a single penny and no support. Neither she would get immovables. She also would lose the custody for the 2 children...
Mary sighned the contract...
I wonder why they made a new one. maybe because Mary has been very extravagant the last months?