Diana's Styles and Titles

[Osipi]

Most likely if the Princess of Wales were still alive, I do think she would've attended some family events. Being that she was the mother to the second in-line to the throne and still a member of the royal family.

Perhaps. I would agree she would in official moments that were special for William and/or Harry such as investitures into orders, weddings and such.

There are a lot of "ifs" and "maybes" and this is one area we will never really know as it never played out. I think we're best off accepting what was and looking to what is now as the tangents of where it might have gone don't really serve any good purpose.

 

[sirhon11234]

Well I read (unfortunately don't remember where) which could be a glimpse of what could have been was that Charles had invited Diana to the decommissioning ceremony of Britannia in October of 1997.

 

[Ish]

The late Princess of Wales wasn't a dumb person as some would like to paint her.

Dman, for someone interested in royals your title use is a bit odd. Diana was not the Princess of Wales at her death, so to refer to her as "the late Princess of Wales" is a bit inappropriate, don't you think?

 

[Dman]

Although Diana lost her HRH in 1996, I still refer to her as Diana, Princess of Wales or the Princess of Wales. She's the last royal to be associated with the title publically.

 

[Duchess of Durham]

Dman, for someone interested in royals your title use is a bit odd. Diana was not the Princess of Wales at her death, so to refer to her as "the late Princess of Wales" is a bit inappropriate, don't you think?

Ish, after the divorce Diana was styled Lady Diana, Princess of Wales. She lost the HRH in the divorce but was allowed to keep the POW title.

Diana, Princess of Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In fact, the official British Monarchy website refers to Diana as Princess of Wales, http://www.royal.gov.uk/Historyofth...rom 1952/DianaPrincessofWales/Background.aspx.

 

[Ish]

Ish, after the divorce Diana was styled Lady Diana, Princess of Wales. She lost the HRH in the divorce but was allowed to keep the POW title. Diana, Princess of Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In fact, the official British Monarchy website refers to Diana as Princess of Wales, http://www.royal.gov.uk/HistoryoftheMonarchy/The%20House%20of%20Windsor%20from%201952/DianaPrincessofWales/Background.aspx.

She didn't remain "the Princess of Wales." She became Diana, Princess of Wales. There is a difference here.

Consider the title Prince of Wales as a peerage. A Peer is The Title of Wherever. His wife is The Feminine Title of Wherever. His ex-wife, however, is not The Feminine Title of Wherever, but is allowed to continue to use her former title (while she remains unmarried) after her name. So, Jane Doe goes from being The Feminine Title of Wherever to Jane Doe, Feminine Title of Wherever. There is a difference here.

Diana was, from her marriage until her divorce The Princess of Wales, but she ceased to be such once she divorced Charles, and became Diana, Princess of Wales, denoting that she is not The Princess, but rather The Prince's ex-wife.

This is similar to people continuing to refer to Sarah as The Duchess of York. She no longer holds such a title and has not held it since her divorce; she's simply Sarah, Duchess of York.

 

[Duchess of Durham]

I am totally confused because Dman did not refer to Diana as The late Princess of Wales, Dman referred to her as the late Princess of Wales. How is that incorrect? What are we supposed to say, Diana, a late Princess of Wales?

 

[Ish]

It's incorrect because after her divorce she was not the Princess of Wales. To simply call her the Princess of Wales is inaccurate.

Properly her title at death was Diana, Princess of Wales. Therefore the right way to refer to her now if you want to point out that she's deceased is "the late Diana, Princess of Wales." Separating her name and the title is inaccurate as the title essentially serves as a surname. You wouldn't refer to Jane Doe as Jane the late Doe, it would be the late Jane Doe.

 

[Ish]

Titles (and styles) are confusing.

Think of it this way:

An unmarried woman would be Miss (or Ms) Jane Doe. Upon her marriage to Mr. John Smith she becomes Mrs. John Smith, but when they divorce she becomes Mrs. (or Ms) Jane Smith. While married she's known as her husband's name, but once divorced she's known as her first name and her ex-husband's surname.

For the purpose of peers, the husband's first name is essentially "The," while the surname is essentially the title. So, Charles is simply HRH The Prince of Wales. "HRH The" acts as his first name, while "Prince of Wales" acts as his surname. So, Diana as his wife was HRH The Princess of Wales - the feminine equivalent of her husband's name (with "Princess" taking the place of "Mrs."). Once divorced, however, she combines her first name with his surname, becoming Diana, Princess of Wales.

In referring to someone as "late" it's done before their name; so keeping with that Diana is "the late Diana, Princess of Wales." To refer to her as simply "the late Princess of Wales" is to imply that she was still married to Charles at the time of her death. The distinction becomes a bit lost as married women tend to no longer refer to themselves as Mrs. [Husband's Name], but it still exists within peerage based titles.

 

[Duchess of Durham]

That makes more sense. If she had gone back to Lady Diana Spencer it would saved us all this pulling of hair over her name, not that my needs are more important than hers.

 

[Dman]

I sometimes refer to her Diana, Princess of Wales or just the late Princess of Wales. It's all due to the respect of her once being the wife of The Prince of Wales and mother of the future King.

 

[Ish]

This is where we disagree. I don't think it's respectful to refer to a woman by a title that she no longer holds, or held. Yes she was once the wife of the Prince of Wales, but she ceased to be so when she got divorced. Her title Diana, Princess of Wales clearly shows that. Refering to her by her proper title is in no way disrespectful, but in my opinion calling her by a title that she wasn't entitled to when she died is just silly.

 

[cinrit]

I think it means that we all know that she was not THE Princess of Wales when she died. So it's just semantics; we knew what he meant.

 

[Dman]

I know Diana's correct title. I'm just saying that I sometimes refer to as the late Diana, Princess of Wales or the late Princess of Wales.

As for Diana's love life, I hope she's found love where she is now.

 

[Duchess of Durham]

I used to have an internet friend (I knew him from other message boards) who considered Di's correct title as Princess Diana. When I told him what it was and that Catherine could end up being styled HRH Princess William of Wales he went off on me (not in a good way). He proclaimed he knew the correct titles because he was Canadian and he had studied British history. This little ole southern American lady had to throw her hands in the air and give up. Idiot! Glad we're not Facebook friends anymore.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I see nothing wrong with calling her the late Diana, Princess of Wales - for the simple reason that the word 'the' is lower case and makes sense grammatically, 'late' because she is now dead, and Diana, Princess of Wales because that was her name at the time of her death.

To call her the Princess of Wales - even with the lower case 'the' is still incorrect at the time of her death as that implies that she was still the Princess of Wales. That title is now Camilla's even though she isn't using it and is very disrespectful to both HRH The Prince of Wales and the present Princess of Wales.

 

[Binny2]

Someone once explained the difference between The Princess of Wales and Diana, Princess of Wales. The first one is a title. Being an American, it is very different from what we are accustomed to. The title is used in passports, it is part of your designation. It appears on all official documents. The second one is used as part of a person's name. Diana, Princess of Wales is like Duke Ellington. It's just a name. It doesn't have the weight of a title. The Queen was sneaky! She was able to take away the title but still have the public think Diana still had her title.

 

[Osipi]

Someone once explained the difference between The Princess of Wales and Diana, Princess of Wales. The first one is a title. Being an American, it is very different from what we are accustomed to. The title is used in passports, it is part of your designation. It appears on all official documents. The second one is used as part of a person's name. Diana, Princess of Wales is like Duke Ellington. It's just a name. It doesn't have the weight of a title. The Queen was sneaky! She was able to take away the title but still have the public think Diana still had her title.

The only reason that Diana was no longer Princess of Wales is because she was no longer married to The Prince of Wales. What the Queen did deem to strip Diana of by letters patent was that she no longer could be Her Royal Highness.

Actually if I'm not mistaken, The Princess of Wales is a courtesy style Diana had solely because she was married to The Prince of Wales. Diana, Princess of Wales is a courtesy style for a divorced woman. It denotes that at one time, she held the style of Princess of Wales. This is how anyone divorced from a peer could style themselves. Sarah, Duchess of York is another. Diana's brother Charles has been married 3 times (so far). His present wife is Countess Spencer. His previous wives, by courtesy, could choose the style such as Victoria, Countess Spencer until she remarried. Same with his second wife.

Diana actually did not hold any titles herself.

 

[COUNTESS]

She did, she was Lady Diana Spencer, a daughter of an Earl.

 

[cepe]

She did, she was Lady Diana Spencer, a daughter of an Earl.

No that is another honorary title.

 

[Osipi]

She did, she was Lady Diana Spencer, a daughter of an Earl.

She had the courtesy styling of Lady Diana Spencer as the daughter of her father. It wasn't her title.

 

[cepe]

For clarity - unless you are the holder of the main, specific title (ie Earl Spencer) all other titles are honorary (Viscount Althrop, Lady XX Spencer).

 

[Ish]

Someone once explained the difference between The Princess of Wales and Diana, Princess of Wales. The first one is a title. Being an American, it is very different from what we are accustomed to. The title is used in passports, it is part of your designation. It appears on all official documents. The second one is used as part of a person's name.

I see where you're coming here, but you're a bit of base. All titles are essentially names, that's why they can be used in passports.

An untitled man would be Mr. John Smith. His wife would be Mrs. John Smith. Were they to divorce then she would become Mrs. Jane Smith; prior to her marriage she would have been Miss Jane Doe.

If you give John a title, however, he becomes The Duke of Wherever, and she becomes the Duchess of Wherever. Her title remains the female equivalent of his, without any of her own name, so long as they remain married. If they divorce, however, she becomes Jane Smith, Duchess of Wherever, until she remarries.

The same thing happened with Diana. When she was unmarried she was Lady Diana Spencer - Lady in place of Miss. When she married Charles she took the feminine equivalent of what essentially is his name, The Princess of Wales. When they divorced, she inserted her name into the mix - Diana, Princess of Wales. All the Queen did was take away the styling entitled to her as a member of the royal family.

Diana actually did not hold any titles herself.

Diana didn't hold any substantial titles, but she did hold courtesy titles. Lady is a courtesy title, as is Princess of Wales when they're held by the means as Diana held them (as a daughter or a wife).

Styling is something different altogether. While she was married Diana's title was Princess of Wales, her style was HRH. When she divorced she didn't lose any titles - it was just changed - but the Queen stripped her of her style (although, I guess she could have gone back to

 

[Binny2]

It is very complicated! So, Diana after the divorce kept her title the Princess of Wales, but lost the styling HRH. Is this less than what she had before she divorced ? Did she lose prestige?

 

[Ish]

It is very complicated! So, Diana after the divorce kept her title the Princess of Wales, but lost the styling HRH. Is this less than what she had before she divorced ? Did she lose prestige?

She didn't keep the title "the Princess of Wales" because she didn't keep the status of "the wife of the Prince of Wales." Her title instead changed to "Diana, Princess of Wales," to reflect her new status as "the unmarried ex-wife of the Prince of Wales." Titles for women more often than not reflect their marital status and their relationship to the men in their lives (curtesy titles for men reflect their relationship to their fathers).

As Lady Diana Spencer her title showed that he was the daughter of an Earl, as The Princess of Wales her titles showed that she was the wife of the PoW. As Diana, Princess of a Wales her title showed that she was the ex-wife of the PoW and hadn't married again - if she had married again, she would have taken the female equivalent of her second husband's titles.

 

[Iluvbertie]

It is very complicated! So, Diana after the divorce kept her title the Princess of Wales, but lost the styling HRH. Is this less than what she had before she divorced ? Did she lose prestige?

Diana was in a unique position as she was also the mother of a future king so she was regarded as still being a member of the royal family and would be given the precedence related to her position as William's mother had she attended major royal events after her divorce. Her death stopped us seeing how that would play out.

During her lifetime her styles changed - all in relation to her father or her husband:

The Honourable Diana Spencer - indicating the daughter of the heir to a peerage.

Lady Diana Spencer - indicating the daughter of a peer - in her case an Earl

HRH The Princess of Wales et. al - the wife of HRH The Prince of Wales et. al.

Diana, Princess of Wales - indicating that she had divorced HRH The Prince of Wales - and was no longer The Princess of Wales.

The use of the word 'The' with or without a capital letter - when not at the beginning of a sentence - is important as well. e.g.

I went to a function at which The Princess of Wales was present.

I went to a function at which the Princess of Wales was present.

They read the same but... that use of capital 'T' indicates that the first sentence refers to the wife of The Prince of Wales while the second sentence refers to the ex-wife of The Prince of Wales - a lesser person in precedence.

 

[scooter]

I thought 'The Princess' referred to one born of the sovereign as in The Princess Margaret or The Princess Anne.

 

[Iluvbertie]

When it refers to a name - The Princess xxxx does refer to the daughter of the monarch so The Princess Anne, The Princess Margaret, The Princess Elizabeth. Elizabeth, from her marriage was officially - HRH The Princess Elizabeth, The Duchess of Edinburgh - indicating her personal position as the daughter of the monarch but also as the wife of The Duke of Edinburgh.

When it refers to a title - The Princess of Wales, The Duchess of Cambridge - it refers to the wife of the holder of the title, or the holder herself e.g. The Baroness Thatcher.

 

[scooter]

Good to know! Thank you!

 

[Binny2]

Thanks for the info! A woman's title appears to be dependent on her relationship to the male title-holder. Except for perhaps Baroness Thatcher.