Diana's Styles and Titles

[Jo of Palatine]

Diana was never Mountbatten-Windsor. With marriage, she was HRH The Princess of Wales. If she was anything conventional, it was Diana Wales (which she often used privately with friends).

After the divorce, the Palace stated people should address Diana as "The Princess" or "Ma'am" as the mother of a future king.

Of course she was Mountbatten-Windsor, as this would be Charles' surname in case he lost his titles. The short form Diana Wales is the way British aristocracy shortens titles: Her Grace, Marian ThisandThat, The Duchess of Nowhere would sign her letters (and be called by some friends): Marian nowhere. So HRH Diana Mountbatten-Windsor, The Princess of Wales was Diana Wales in short. Just as her stepmother is in short Raine Spencer.

Here are quotes from the official Letters Patent of the British souverains concerning the family name (From: http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/britfaq.html#p2-1)

On 17 July 1917, King George V issued a Proclamation which stated that the male line descendants of the royal family would bear the surname Windsor:

from the date of this Our Royal Proclamation Our House and Family shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that all the descendants in the male line of Our said Grandmother Queen Victoria who are subjects of these Realms, other than female descendants who may marry or may have married, shall bear the said Name of Windsor​

A few months later, King George V issued Letters Patent on 30 October 1917 which limited the title 'Prince' and the style 'Royal Highness' to the children of a sovereign, the children of sons of a sovereign and the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. HH Prince Alastair of Connaught (1914-1943), grandson of HRH Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught (Queen Victoria's fourth son), became the first member of the royal family to use the surname Windsor in lieu of his princely title. It has been suggested that it was a misinterpretation of these latest Letters Patent which led to HH Prince Alastair (for such he was based on practise going back to the time of King George I's accession in 1714 and which practise was confirmed in Queen Victoria's Letters Patent of 30 January 1864; source: "The Princes of Great Britain" article in Burke's Peerage 1963 edition, pp xxvii-xxxii) being denied his princely title. However, as he was the son and heir of a peeress (Princess Alexandra, Duchess of Fife), he was allowed the courtesy use of his mother's subsidiary title and became Alastair Windsor, styled Earl of Macduff.
On 11 December 1917, it was further decided by Letters Patent that:

the grandchildren of the sons of any such Sovereign in the direct male line (save only the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales) shall have the style and title enjoyed by the children of Dukes.​

In 1952, Queen Elizabeth II confirmed her grandfather's decision that the royal family's surname would continue to be Windsor. Her Majesty declared on 9 April 1952 that it was:

her Will and Pleasure that She and Her Children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that Her descendants other than female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Windsor.​

A few years later, HM The Queen modified this statement by issuing Letters Patent in February 1960 which stated in part:

while I and my children will continue to be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, my descendants, other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attributes of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess, and female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name Mountbatten-Windsor.

End of quote.

So as soon as Diana did not longer "enjoy the style, titles or attributes of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess" she became Diana Mountbatten-Windsor, as this would have been the name Charles had to use if he lost his title.
​

 

[sirhon11234]

I thought Diana could have recieved the HRH style back under letters of patent.

 

[BeatrixFan]

No. Once you're dead, you're dead and you're not eligible for any titles or honours. After all, what good would they do?

 

[Zonk]

If that is the case...then why was it rumored that the Queen would give Diana back the HRH when she died?

 

[BeatrixFan]

That was tabloid rubbish. If Diana gets one, Wallis will certainly be spinning. It'd make a mockery of the whole system. You don't get HRH's after death. What's the point of all that bother to add 3 letters to a tombstone? And Diana had lost her HRH quite a few years before her death and she was well aware she'd lose it. No, it'll never happen.

 

[Zonk]

Well...I guess we will see When William becomes King...anything could happen!

 

[BeatrixFan]

No it couldn't. It can't happen. You cannot give honours to dead people.

 

[Elspeth]

Wasn't there some report that the Queen had offered to give Diana an HRH after she died and Charles Spencer refused? Or was that a tabloid invention?

 

[BeatrixFan]

No, tabloid invention. Apparantly, the Queen offered to let Diana keep her HRH but DIANA refused to. The Queen did ask Diana to reconsider her decision but she said no. The fact is that the Queen took away Diana's HRH whether because she wanted it, Charles wanted it or Diana wanted it. If William re-instates it, he better give the Duchess of Windsor her HRH too and I hope he'll be able to live comfortably in exile because the moment he makes our current Queen look a fool, he'll lose every scrap of support he has. He'd be either defying the Queen's wishes, going against what his mother wanted and he'd be showing a true insult to his father and step-mother. Add to that the fact that he can't give Di back her HRH anyway and we finally lay this absurd suggestion to rest.

 

[Roslyn]

No it couldn't. It can't happen. You cannot give honours to dead people.

The Victoria Cross can be awarded posthumously, but originally it couldn't. The rules were changed.

When William's king he might change the rules, and, though I might be very wrong, I doubt he'd bother. There's no point.

 

[BeatrixFan]

The VC maybe, the HRH - no.

 

[Roslyn]

This is probably posted above somewhere, but I've only just read it. It seems to answer the question. I doubt William would even try in light of what's said here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/politics97/diana/hrh.html

 

[sassie]

No, tabloid invention. Apparantly, the Queen offered to let Diana keep her HRH but DIANA refused to. The Queen did ask Diana to reconsider her decision but she said no. The fact is that the Queen took away Diana's HRH whether because she wanted it, Charles wanted it or Diana wanted it. If William re-instates it, he better give the Duchess of Windsor her HRH too and I hope he'll be able to live comfortably in exile because the moment he makes our current Queen look a fool, he'll lose every scrap of support he has. He'd be either defying the Queen's wishes, going against what his mother wanted and he'd be showing a true insult to his father and step-mother. Add to that the fact that he can't give Di back her HRH anyway and we finally lay this absurd suggestion to rest.

I very much doubt that the citizens of the UK would force William into exile simply for restoring his mother's title of HRH, if he chooses to change the rules and do so. At least, I would hope that they would need a much more serious reason for denying a reigning King what is, after all, his birthright.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Of course it wouldnt hinge on that issue but it would cheapen and make a mockery of the way we style the Royal Family. It would open up title debate, which would lead to honours reform, title reform and then we'd start the long road to Republic. William is not and never will be in a position to change the rules. Monarchs have worked incredibly hard to give us the monarchy we have today and William cannot and should not start hacking away at it to please a foreign minority.

 

[Madame Royale]

William is not and never will be in a position to change the rules.

Though as sovereign, William will be in a position to propose changes if and where its deemed appropriate and where such changes can in reality, be observed. To say he won't, is not an accurate statement.

The question is whether or not he intends to do so (I, like you, don't think he intends to reinstate a HRH style to his late mother), and whether such changes shall have the support of the appropriate parliamentary powers required to review, and subsequently pass, such amendments.

 

[BeatrixFan]

He'll be King - that doesn't mean he can pick apart the fabric of a monarchy 1,000 years in the making.

 

[sirhon11234]

But BeatrixFan, if Charles can marry Camilla a divorcee why can't William give his mother her HRH title back.

 

[Princess Robijn]

But BeatrixFan, if Charles can marry Camilla a divorcee why can't William give his mother her HRH title back.

Maybe because she died?

 

[Avalon]

I see no reason for it as well. I assume Prince William could have had the title back, upon becoming a King, but what's the reason? Why would it be done after so many years?

 

[Skydragon]

What would be the point, by the time William is King, Diana will not be in the forefront of most peoples minds, already a lot of the younger generation only know her as Williams dead mother, IMO.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Exactly. Diana is dead. She won't get the HRH because she didn't want it when she was alive. Wallis wanted it and never got and will never get it now - because she's dead. I'm afraid that however much her fans would like it, the Queen won't give it back, Charles won't and nor will William - Diana made it very clear that she didn't want it after the divorce so giving it to her would go against her wishes.

 

[Madame Royale]

He'll be King - that doesn't mean he can pick apart the fabric of a monarchy 1,000 years in the making.

I don' think he would want or even intends to to any great extent, but he will be able to the 'pick the string' of pretty much anything he wishes (within accordance to the powers he shall hold).

His grandmother has made some changes, and no doubt his father shall make changes (it shall be interesting to see the layout of Charles' coronation for one).

 

[BeatrixFan]

But he can't start giving out HRHs to tombstones. And effectively, thats what he'd be doing. It's just three letters but those three letters would start a debate on monarchy at a time when we really want to hold that debate off.

 

[Madame Royale]

But he can't start giving out HRHs to tombstones. And effectively, thats what he'd be doing. It's just three letters but those three letters would start a debate on monarchy at a time when we really want to hold that debate off.

BeatrixFan,

I 'see' where your coming from, there's no question of that. A Diana admirer I am (I seem to be one of only a few who actually like both Diana and Camilla..haha), but I dont see what good restoring his late mothers HRH shall achieve. If Diana were alive then of course it would be different but she isn't.

I can also understand why others would like for it to happen and there's nothing wrong with that They are quite right to feel the way they do about it.

 

[Henri M.]

King in 25-30 years

Let us assume that Prince William will become King in 25-30 years, when his father is over 80 years old.

Then at that moment, his mother will already be dead for almost 4 decades.
I highly doubt the new King will start waking up the sleeping dogs.

 

[sirhon11234]

Well I guess only time will tell if william will give Diana her HRH title back.

 

[Madame Royale]

Well I guess only time will tell if william will give Diana her HRH title back.

Absolutely sirhon11234.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well no, it won't. We know it won't happen. It can't happen.

 

[Elspeth]

There was a time when we thought it couldn't happen that the wife of a royal duke wasn't granted an HRH, but the royal family seem to be able to rewrite the rules when they really want to. As others have said, I think it'd be very unlikely, but I'd hesitate to be so definitive.

The very fact that restoring Diana's HRH was discused after her death, even though it wasn't actually an offer, suggests that there's at least a theoretical possibility that it could happen.

Mind you, if some tragedy knocks out the whole of the Wales family and Beatrice becomes queen, I wonder if Sarah will be getting her HRH back.

 

[Madame Royale]

Well no, it won't. We know it won't happen. It can't happen.

BeatrixFan,

No one can rule somethng out in actuality on the basis of personal opinion. It can happen but whether it does or not is another matter. Like you, I don't believe it will (I can certainly be proven wrong) and I don't find it necessary to the memory of Diana, Princess of Wales but to state, categorically, that it won't happen is not something we can foresee.

I understand that it is your personal view (and a view shared by others I'm positive) but that's all it is (respectively).