Diana's Royal Orders

[jacqui24]

In that case, i always quote the late Duchess of Devonshire :

"How strange it is, this adoration and beatification of the princess. If only they knew. It just shows how humans must have an icon and there she was, beautiful, elegant and charming and quite extraordinary with ill and old people - I've seen her at work and it was a case of touching the hem, almost unbelieveable. BUT "they" have no idea of the other side".

The fact is that there will always a gap between the public and the private perception of the Princess of Wales. I guess HM knew both and maybe thought that it was useless to decorate someone who, apparently at least, didn't care anymore about the royal decorum (and at one point was very vocal about it).

The sad thing is that, on the contrary, Diana would have maybe felt encouraged in her position by receiving, for exemple, the RVO.

Another exemple of deep misunderstanding from both parties in that long, long story.

That type of thing is the very definition of Diana’s relationship with her husband and her in laws. It was a bad cycle that just went on and on.

 

[Dman]

She just never felt her duties to Queen, Country and Commonwealth was appreciated in the royal family. The lack of an honor helped prove her feelings.

I never believed anyone in the family are in competition to receive anything, but those knighthoods from “the boss” do mean something to them and let’s them know that all those days, hours and years of carrying out official engagements on her behalf is appreciated by her and the appreciation is formally recognized. They wear their honors with pride and dignity. Diana just never got that pat on the back from her own royal house.

 

[muriel]

She just never felt her duties to Queen, Country and Commonwealth was appreciated in the royal family. The lack of an honor helped prove her feelings.

I never believed anyone in the family are in competition to receive anything, but those knighthoods from “the boss” do mean something to them and let’s them know that all those days, hours and years of carrying out official engagements on her behalf is appreciated by her and the appreciation is formally recognized. They wear their honors with pride and dignity. Diana just never got that pat on the back from her own royal house.

I don't want to rerun old history, but from the perspective of the Queen, it would be difficult to provide further honours to somebody who, "from the inside" was working so hard to undermine the very institution they ostensibly represented.

 

[JR76]

In that case, i always quote the late Duchess of Devonshire :

I remember reading this, but can't remember where. Where is this quote from?

 

[Mbruno]

For the amount of work she did esp around the world I am surprised she didn't get a lot of honors, orders, and awards.

Queen Elizabeth II doesn't decorate queen consorts or first ladies in state visits. That limits the number of decorations foreign heads of state are willing to bestow on members (especially female members) of the British royal family.


On top of that, Diana was never a queen consort herself, but rather only the wife of an heir, and she and her husband separated after being married for a little over 10 years only. Had she become queen and retained that position into an old age, she would have been given a larger number of orders, not least UK orders like the Garter, the Thistle, and the RVO.

Sophie was given her first order (Order of St. John) in 2005. 5 years later came the Royal Victorian Order. The Duchess of Gloucester was given the Order of St. John within 2 years of marriage. Camilla got her Victorian Order within 7 years of marriage.

Still, that is much longer on average than the amount of time it takes for royal spouses to get orders in continental European monarchies. I don't know the exact timetable, but it appears to me that in Spain, Denmark, Sweden, or Belgium, royal spouses are pratically instantly decorated shortly after getting married. To me, that shows that Queen Elizabeth II doesn't take orders for granted. Even in the examples you gave, Sophie, Camilla and the Duchess of Gloucester do not have the country's highest order while the Princess Royal does, but also didn't get it right away.


The Duchess of Cambridge has been married for nearly 8 years now and she has not been given any order of knighthood, not even the RVO. Should we conclude that she is also"under-appreciated" by the Queen ?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Queen Elizabeth II doesn't decorate queen consorts or first ladies in state visits. That limits the number of decorations foreign heads of state are willing to bestow on members (especially female members) of the British royal family.


On top of that, Diana was never a queen consort herself, but rather only the wife of an heir, and she and her husband separated after being married for a little over 10 years only. Had she become queen and retained that position into an old age, she would have been given a larger number of orders, not least UK orders like the Garter, the Thistle, and the RVO.





Still, that is much longer on average than the amount of time it takes for royal spouses to get orders in continental European monarchies. I don't know the exact timetable, but it appears to me that in Spain, Denmark, Sweden, or Belgium, royal spouses are pratically instantly decorated shortly after getting married. To me, that shows that Queen Elizabeth II doesn't take orders for granted. Even in the examples you gave, Sophie, Camilla and the Duchess of Gloucester do not have the country's highest order while the Princess Royal does, but also didn't get it right away.


The Duchess of Cambridge has been married for nearly 8 years now and she has not been given any order of knighthood, not even the RVO. Should we conclude that she is also"under-appreciated" by the Queen ?

The Duchess of Cambridge is not the consort to the monarch, she is not even the consort to the Heir, she is married to the Heir's Heir. To make a comparison with European royal ladies, it is important to consider this circumstance. Note that spouses of Infanta Elena, Prince Friso, Princess Märtha Louise, Princess Caroline, etc. did not receive a "home" royal Order. It is not as if every royal spouse is buried under Orders.

 

[Mbruno]

The Duchess of Cambridge is not the consort to the monarch, she is not even the consort to the Heir, she is married to the Heir's Heir. To make a comparison with European royal ladies, it is important to consider this circumstance. Note that spouses of Infanta Elena, Prince Friso, Princess Märtha Louise, Princess Caroline, etc. did not receive a "home" royal Order. It is not as if every royal spouse is buried under Orders.

There are exceptions of course, but I don't think Mabel is a good example in this particular discussion because she has never been a "Princess of the Netherlands" or an official member of the Dutch Royal House for that matter. Likewise, the situation of male spouses of princesses is often different from that of female spouses of princes. Royal husbands who were elevated to the rank of prince (HRH) like Prince Daniel or Prince Lorenz have been given the country's highest royal order. I am pretty sure that Leonor's husband for example will be given the Order of Carlos III upon marriage whereas Infanta Sofia's husband will probably get no Spanish orders as it happened to her uncles.



One thing, however, that both King Juan Carlos and King Felipe VI had/have in common with Queen Elizabeth II is that they are also selective when it comes to awarding the Golden Fleece to their family members as neither Queen Sofia, nor Queen Letizia, nor any of their children other than the heir to the Crown have it.

 

[LadyFinn]

Still, that is much longer on average than the amount of time it takes for royal spouses to get orders in continental European monarchies. I don't know the exact timetable, but it appears to me that in Spain, Denmark, Sweden, or Belgium, royal spouses are pratically instantly decorated shortly after getting married. To me, that shows that Queen Elizabeth II doesn't take orders for granted. Even in the examples you gave, Sophie, Camilla and the Duchess of Gloucester do not have the country's highest order while the Princess Royal does, but also didn't get it right away.

In Sweden, there is no official Royal Family Order. The women of the Royal Family (queen Silvia, crown princess Victoria, princess Madeleine, princess Sofia, princess Margaretha, princess Désirée, princess Birgitta and princess Christina) wear The King's Miniature Portrait, which is not a Family Order, and it is not given of some services to the Head of State.
Princess Lilian wore The King's Miniature Portrait 3 days after her wedding at the Nobel Prize ceremony on 10th December 1976.
Image Upper.com - Free Image Hosting - View Image

 

[Mbruno]

In Sweden, there is no official Royal Family Order. The women of the Royal Family (queen Silvia, crown princess Victoria, princess Madeleine, princess Sofia, princess Margaretha, princess Désirée, princess Birgitta and princess Christina) wear The King's Miniature Portrait, which is not a Family Order, and it is not given of some services to the Head of State.
Princess Lilian wore The King's Miniature Portrait 3 days after her wedding at the Nobel Prize ceremony on 10th December 1976.
Image Upper.com - Free Image Hosting - View Image

I was not thinking about the Family Order, but rather about the Order of the Seraphim, which both Daniel and Sofia apparently got right away. Even Chris O'Neill, who is not an HRH himself, was awarded the rank of commander in the order of the Polar Star.

 

[Nico]

I remember reading this, but can't remember where. Where is this quote from?

It's from the book "Letters between Six Sisters" ."

 

[Heavs]

I'm not sure any amount of orders during or after her marriage would have helped Diana that much. It couldn't have stopped the deterioration of her marriage and she was in burn the whole thing down mode because of that.

 

[Kitty1224]

I'm not sure any amount of orders during or after her marriage would have helped Diana that much. It couldn't have stopped the deterioration of her marriage and she was in burn the whole thing down mode because of that.

It’s alright because at the end of the day she didn’t need those orders,honors and awards. The people were behind her and she was loved. Doesn’t she have a noble peace prize for the land mines? Anyways she will always be the People’s Princess”!

 

[VictoriaB]

It’s alright because at the end of the day she didn’t need those orders,honors and awards. The people were behind her and she was loved. Doesn’t she have a noble peace prize for the land mines? Anyways she will always be the People’s Princess”!

No. She does not have a Nobel Prize. A charity associated with landline campaigns (but not one Diana was associated with) was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1997.

As with almost everybody in the public eye, she was loved by some of the people, not all. Not by a long stretch.

 

[JR76]

It's from the book "Letters between Six Sisters" ."

I just returned that to the library. I apparently have the memory of a goldfish...
Thanks and a happy new year

 

[JR76]

I was not thinking about the Family Order, but rather about the Order of the Seraphim, which both Daniel and Sofia apparently got right away. Even Chris O'Neill, who is not an HRH himself, was awarded the rank of commander in the order of the Polar Star.

Daniel got the Order of the Seraphim after he and Victoria left the altar, but before they left the church. The Bernadottes can be quick when they want to.

 

[Dman]

It’s alright because at the end of the day she didn’t need those orders,honors and awards. The people were behind her and she was loved. Doesn’t she have a noble peace prize for the land mines? Anyways she will always be the People’s Princess”!

No, Diana never had a Nobel Peace Prize.

I’ve seen it this way too. Her honors came from the people. The world gave her flowers and appreciation while she was alive and after her death. They still do.

I don't want to rerun old history, but from the perspective of the Queen, it would be difficult to provide further honours to somebody who, "from the inside" was working so hard to undermine the very institution they ostensibly represented.

I don’t think she tried to undermine the institution her children belong to. She did her job as a senior royal and should’ve received the DJStJ at least.

 

[Osipi]

The way I see it is that the orders that are under the Queen's will and pleasure are bestowed on members of the family that have served the Queen and the "Firm" diligently.

Even though the general public wasn't aware of it, Diana and Charles' marriage was troubled from the very beginning and the Queen was well aware of this. It sorely hampered Charles and Diana working as team members of the "Firm" and eventually it seemed more and more that Diana was "going rogue" in the sense that she was building up her own "celebrity" rather than working to promote the monarchy and the "Firm".

Diana was *not* a team player and hence never honored for being one.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Diana was just victim of the British discminatory policy regarding Orders. Male consorts got Orders. Female consorts never. Sometimes QEII made an exception, for an example granting a very young Princess Beatrix the Grand Cross in the Royal Victorian Order but NOT her sister Princess Irene, no matter she was a godchild of QEQM and baptized in the Chapel of Buckingham Palace. She got nothing. Period.

When QEII gives nothing to Queen Sofía, Queen Silvia, Grand-Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte, Queen Letizia, etc., it is not so strange that in return female members of the BRF are overlooked. At the last State Visit to the UK, we saw even Camilla without a Dutch Order, but turn it around: Queen Máxima got nothing either. No RVO, no Bath, nothing. It is not surprising that Diana only got one foreign royal Order.

 

[Kitty1224]

No, Diana never had a Nobel Peace Prize.

I’ve seen it this way too. Her honors came from the people. The world gave her flowers and appreciation while she was alive and after her death. They still do.



I don’t think she tried to undermine the institution her children belong to. She did her job as a senior royal and should’ve received the DJStJ at least.

It’s why I always believed getting the honors from the people in her position is so much more important. It’s shy she didn’t need a title to still have the people’s hearts and be loved. She was above that. No wonder my own father said she is a rarity.

 

[duchessrachel]

Gcvo

I just read that The Duchess of Cambridge was appointed a Dame Grand Cross in the Royal Victorian Order. I also read that Diana never received it. Is that true? If so, does anyone know why she didn't?

 

[Lumutqueen]

I just read that The Duchess of Cambridge was appointed a Dame Grand Cross in the Royal Victorian Order. I also read that Diana never received it. Is that true? If so, does anyone know why she didn't?

It is true. RVO is gifted by HM Queen Elizabeth, usually for services to the sovereign. It’s clear to me that HM didn’t think Diana was worthy of it. It took Catherine 8 years to earn it, Camilla 7 years and Sophie 11 years.

 

[Lilyflo]

I just read that The Duchess of Cambridge was appointed a Dame Grand Cross in the Royal Victorian Order. I also read that Diana never received it. Is that true? If so, does anyone know why she didn't?

The Wales marriage had irretrievably broken down after 5 years (according to Charles) & the Princess of Wales having adulterous relationships & briefing the press against the heir to the throne isn't regarded as serving the sovereign well (despite her tragic situation & people's sympathy).

 

[sophie25]

The Wales marriage had irretrievably broken down after 5 years (according to Charles) & the Princess of Wales having adulterous relationships & briefing the press against the heir to the throne isn't regarded as serving the sovereign well (despite her tragic situation & people's sympathy).

Gosh, what a one sided comment.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Princess of Wales had the Royal Family Order of EII and the only other order as far as I'm aware was the Dutch Grand Cross of the Order of the Crown bestowed by queen Beatrix in 1982.

 

[Lilyflo]

Gosh, what a one sided comment.

It is one sided I admit - from the side of the person who'd be deciding on the criteria for earning the award. It's not my personal view as I'm much more sympathetic to Diana but if you're the sovereign giving awards for service to the sovereign, Diana fell short I'm very sad to say but I suspect that in that same circumstances, many of us would have fallen short too.

 

[Somebody]

Daniel got the Order of the Seraphim after he and Victoria left the altar, but before they left the church. The Bernadottes can be quick when they want to.

The babies get it straight after they are christened, so very consistent practice by the Swedish king.

 

[Stefan]

The babies get it straight after they are christened, so very consistent practice by the Swedish king.

He could not give it earlier to him as the only swedish citizens who can be awarded an order like this are the memers of the Royal Family. So Daniel got it minutes after he had become an member of the Royal Family.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The babies get it straight after they are christened, so very consistent practice by the Swedish king.

It is the same in the House of Nassau and the House of Orange-Nassau: children of the Sovereign are Knight or Dame in the Order of the Golden Lion of the House Nassau. Only difference with the Seraphim: this Order is only visible when the princes and princesses are adults. No merits needed. Just the position brings the Order.

 

[Ista]

I just read that The Duchess of Cambridge was appointed a Dame Grand Cross in the Royal Victorian Order. I also read that Diana never received it. Is that true? If so, does anyone know why she didn't?

Since it is solely given at the Queen's discretion, the very simplest answer is that the Queen didn't want to give it to her. It may have been that by the time it would ordinarily have been bestowed it was becoming obvious that there were problems in the Wales's marriage, but all of that is sheer speculation.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Queen usually makes wives wait about 7 or more years before getting this award - certainly. By that point in the marriage Diana and Charles were effectively separated, even though still officially together. Hence no award for Diana. She may also have believed that as the wife of the heir to the throne Diana was too senior to get this award. She did give it to Camilla in 2012 - the most senior member of the family to get it until Philip was given it in 2017.

Don't forget she made Philip wait until 2017 and hasn't given it to either Charles or William.