Death of Queen Elizabeth II - Pre-Funeral Discussion and Reception


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Perhaps, but I have also seen them (for example Felipe and Letizia) use Air Force flights instead. See for example their departure for the state visit to Sweden.


See also at the video below of Willem-Alexander and Maxima arriving in Denmark. I may be mistaken, but it doesn't look like a commercial flight to me.



In any case, the British hosts cannot dictate how the foreign guests arrive in London, unless they refuse permission for their airplanes to land on UK soil. That sounds odd to me.

If they arrive for a state visit they indeed use the appropriate plgovernment ane as in that case it is part of the representation/ceremonial welcome but that doesn't mean they don't fly commercial in other cases.

At least for the Dutch royals it is quite common to take a KLM flight to their destination, for example whenever the family travels to Argentina and also when Máxima is on route for her UN work. If they have an official visit in a different part of the world the government plane is flown there in advance (with multiple stops in between) and they will fly commercial. So, they won't have any problem traveling business class on a KLM flight to London if that is the request (in other circumstances Willem-Alexander might even be a co-pilot om that flight).
 
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I am almost 100% sure Biden wouldn't mind being bussed in....this is a man who took public transportation from his home in Delaware to the U.S. Senate regularly.

But no. The U.S. Secret Service will not allow the president to attend under those conditions. And they have the final say.

The last time an American president was permitted to overrule the Secret Service over a personal security issue was when JFK did it on November 22 1963.


Exactly. And no other US President AFAIK rode in an open car following that day.

But going back to the main topic of the guest list, I think it is perfectly reasonable that invitations will be extended directly to Heads of State, since it is a state funeral. Answering a previous question, I doubt Queen Sofia or Emperor Emeritus Akihito would even consider attending since they understand their constitutional position now and know it would not be appropriate for them to do so at a state event. Princess Beatrix seems to blur the lines sometimes; for example, she still attends state dinners in the Netherlands (which Queen Sofia has never done in Spain since her husband's abdication) and she was at Prince Philip's memorial service, but that was not a state event.

So, I would say no, I don't expect any foreign royals other than reigning monarchs and their consorts to attend. Perhaps CP Frederik might accompany Queen Margrethe II since she doesn't have a "plus one" anymore. If I am not mistaken, Prince Philippe accompanied King Albert II for example at the Queen Mother's funeral.

I am not sure how non-reigning Royal Families will be handled since their respective countries have their own Heads of State who have priority on the guest list.

At least for the Dutch royals it is quite common to take a KLM flight to their destination, for example whenever the family travels to Argentina and also when Máxima is on route for her UN work. If they have an official visit in a different part of the world the government plane is flown there in advance (with multiple stops in between) and they will fly commercial. So, they won't have any problem traveling business class on a KLM flight to London if that is the request (in other circumstances Willem-Alexander might even be a co-pilot om that flight).

I believe tommy100 and Sunnystar have clarified what the leaked memo says. No Head of State is forbidden from arriving in the UK on a non-commercial flight. If, however, they cannot fly commercially (which is the case of the POTUS or the King of Spain), they won't be able to use Heathrow to land their planes.

As Sunnystar said, Air Force One will probably use an RAF base. I still doubt the Brits would deny permission for President Biden to use Marine One, but, if they do, the President can still be transported by motorcade, which is slightly less secure, especially if Air Force One lands outside the London metro region.
 
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Princess Beatrix seems to blur the lines sometimes; for example, she still attends state dinners in the Netherlands (which Queen Sofia has never done in Spain since her husband's abdication) and she was at Prince Philip's memorial service, but that was not a state event.

So, I would say no, I don't expect any foreign royals other than reigning monarchs and their consorts to attend. Perhaps CP Frederik might accompany Queen Margrethe II since she doesn't have a "plus one" anymore. If I am not mistaken, Prince Philippe accompanied King Albert II for example at the Queen Mother's funeral.

Heh - maybe Princess Beatrix can be Queen Margarethe II's "plus one"! That would solve that problem quite neatly. ?
 
I believe tommy100 and Sunnystar have clarified what the leaked memo says. No Head of State is forbidden from arriving in the UK on a non-commercial flight. If, however, they cannot fly commercially (which is the case of the POTUS or the King of Spain), they won't be able to use Heathrow to land their planes.

I indeed read that it is possible to arrive by a private jet on a different airport. However, I wanted to correct your earlier impression and confirm what JR76 stated, i.e., that many European monarchs tend to fly commercial unless protocol dictates otherwise. It seems the Spanish and Belgian monarchs are the only exceptions. All others seem to be fine flying commercially.
 
I indeed read that it is possible to arrive by a private jet on a different airport. However, I wanted to correct your earlier impression and confirm what JR76 stated, i.e., that many European monarchs tend to fly commercial unless protocol dictates otherwise. It seems the Spanish and Belgian monarchs are the only exceptions. All others seem to be fine flying commercially.

I am not sure they are the only exceptions. See for example Prince Henrik below arriving by private jet for the funeral of Prince Bernhard.



Here is also King Harald and Queen Sonja exiting from a Royal Norwegian Air Force plane on the same day,


A liitle bit later in the clip, you see King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia, who are part of the Spanish "exception" though, also arriving on a Spanish Air Force jet.



But we are getting off-topic. In the case of Queen Elizabeth II's funeral, the important point is the aforementioned clarification from The Guardian posted by tommy100.
 
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You know, there's only so much space in Westminster Abbey, so I understand the restrictions placed on the number of people who can attend. It is only right and correct to restrict attendance of foreign heads of state to a plus one.

I expect that some exceptions will be made for certain foreign heads of state (like Biden, Trudeau, Macron, etc) where there are some very clear security concerns. But, also, there's a certain protocol for seating and having the heads of state arriving on buses will expedite them getting into their seats at the Abbey, etc.
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Trudeau isn't a Head of State. He is a Head of Government. The Head of State of Canada was proclaimed yesterday as HM Charles III.
 
President Obama didn't do the carriage ride with the Queen during his state visit to the UK for security reasons, which was an insult TBH. There is no way President Biden or the First Lady will ever ride a bus.

In no way is it an insult to put the security of two heads of state above a fancy carriage ride. President Biden and Dr. Biden will ride in a bus if that's what is decided is safest to get all of these incredibly important people into and out of Westminster Abbey. All it takes is one yahoo for a lot of damage to occur in a very short period of time.

2022 is a very different world to 1952, and that needs to be acknowledged.
 
I am almost 100% sure Biden wouldn't mind being bussed in....this is a man who took public transportation from his home in Delaware to the U.S. Senate regularly for years.

But no. The U.S. Secret Service will not allow the president to attend under those conditions. And they have the final say.

The last time an American president was permitted to overrule the Secret Service over a personal security issue was when JFK did it on November 22 1963.

JFK didn't overrule the Secret Service, not that I've ever read in any reputable source. If you're referring to the fact his presidential limousine didn't have the bubble top on it, I've never heard that they wanted the top on. I know he didn't want it on because the weather was beautiful that day, and he wanted the people lining the route to be able to see him, but that's it.
 
:previous: He objected to the bubbletop in Dallas and everywhere he traveled. He felt it separated him from people who took the trouble to come see him.

The Secret Service didn't approve.

In Europe, in South America, in Mexico he was greeted by wildly delirious crowds and ALWAYS with the top down because that's how he wanted it. He even frequently stood to wave.

Proof easily available on YouTube.

Jacqueline Kennedy also wanted the bubbletop in Dallas. Not for security concerns but because she didn't want her hair messed up by the time the Presidential motorcade arrived at it's destination...The Dallas Trade Mart.

sources "Death Of A President" William Manchester 1964

"The Day Kennedy Died" Jim Bishop 1967

There are many more sources for this information but I am not interested in being warned by Mods to stay on topic
 
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I wonder If there’s still a chance they would change the venue. St. Paul’s is much bigger and would ease the restrictions.

No. Westminster Abbey is an ”upgrade” already. Every funeral for the british sovereign since King George III has taken place in St George’s Chapel. There the seating capacity is only 900 and then it’s really cramped.
 
Reading the arrangement about foreign head of states about makes me wonder, what would their precedence be like, like who would arrive first and who would arrive last? By alphabet order, or length of service? I suppose reigning monarch and commonwealth realm's governor general and PM would be in a separate grouping?
 
Reading the arrangement about foreign head of states about makes me wonder, what would their precedence be like, like who would arrive first and who would arrive last? By alphabet order, or length of service? I suppose reigning monarch and commonwealth realm's governor general and PM would be in a separate grouping?

I want to say that it's based on length of service, then maybe alphabetical. But, don't quote me on that. It could be that the commonwealth realms will have separate seating too.

I can't imagine the security challenge that this will be.
 
I wonder If there’s still a chance they would change the venue. St. Paul’s is much bigger and would ease the restrictions.

No. WA is The Queen's choice. That is a break with tradition by the way ... since George II the monarch's funeral has always been at St George's but The Queen wanted WA.
 
KIng Willem-Alexander, Queen Máxima and Pricness Beatrix have confirmed they will attend the funeral. So it seem the 2 person rule will not apply to foreign royals

I hope there's an exception made to former Monarchs like Beatrix who knew the late queen well and also former consorts like Queen Sofia of Spain.
 
Sky News reported in the past hour that the Crown of Scotland is going to be placed on the coffin for the Service of Remembrance at St. Giles Cathedral later today.


The Queen is de facto being given two "funerals": in Scotland, with the procession, the Scottish tumular crown and the Presbyterian service at St Giles, and then the main state funeral and the Anglican service at Westminster Abbey followed by burial at St George's.

I suppose that was probably accidental as a result of the Queen passing away in Scotland, but giving her position on the Union, it is something that the Queen would have greatly appreciated.


I hope there's an exception made to former Monarchs like Beatrix who knew the late queen well and also former consorts like Queen Sofia of Spain.


Tommy100 clarified yesterday that the state delegations are asked to be kept as small as possible, but there is no strict 2-person rule. It wouldn't be diplomatic to have exceptions for one country and not for the others.
 
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King Felipe and Queen Letizia will attend the funeral, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía have been invited but have not yet decided.

The Spanish Royal House confirms that the Netherlands and Belgium have also received invitations for their previous monarchs, and Denmark for the crown prince (they have said this because Juan Carlos's "friends" were already creating problems in the press).

https://www.20minutos.es/noticia/50...-a-falta-de-que-don-juan-carlos-decida-si-va/
 
The Queen is de facto being given two "funerals": in Scotland, with the procession, the Scottish tumular crown and the Presbyterian service at St Giles, and then the main state funeral and the Anglican service at Westminster Abbey followed by burial at St George's.

I suppose that was probably accidental as a result of the Queen passing away in Scotland, but giving her position on the Union, it is something that the Queen would have greatly appreciated.


[...]

Even in death she keeps her reign united.
 
King Felipe and Queen Letizia will attend the funeral, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía have been invited but have not yet decided.

The Spanish Royal House confirms that the Netherlands and Belgium have also received invitations for their previous monarchs, and Denmark for the crown prince (they have said this because Juan Carlos's "friends" were already creating problems in the press).

https://www.20minutos.es/noticia/50...-a-falta-de-que-don-juan-carlos-decida-si-va/

I hope it's not off-topic, but may I ask what problems did they create?
 
Tommy100 clarified yesterday that the state delegations are asked to be kept as small as possible, but there is no strict 2-person rule. It wouldn't be diplomatic to have exceptions for one country and not for the others.


Not to mention not every Head of State is fluent in English, some will need to be accompanied by an official translator and their staff to guide them.
 
No. WA is The Queen's choice. That is a break with tradition by the way ... since George II the monarch's funeral has always been at St George's but The Queen wanted WA.

I had no idea. I took for granted that sovereings' funerals were at Westminster. Well, Westminster may be a break with recent tradition, but it ties up with older tradition. ?
 
I hope it's not off-topic, but may I ask what problems did they create?

Juan Carlos' friends have been leaking information to the press for days about whether he wanted to go, if he was invited, but the Government and the Royal House did not want him to go... another campaign in favor of Juan Carlos. Obviously Juan Carlos has legal problems in Britain with Corinna and serious mobility problems, so it doesn't seem very smart to go, but he has to satisfy his ego.:whistling:
 
The first confirmed guests for the funeral are the Dutch royal couple and Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands.

https://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/actue...es-beatrix-bij-uitvaart-koningin-elizabeth-ii

Juan Carlos' friends have been leaking information to the press for days about whether he wanted to go, if he was invited, but the Government and the Royal House did not want him to go... another campaign in favor of Juan Carlos. Obviously Juan Carlos has legal problems in Britain with Corinna and serious mobility problems, so it doesn't seem very smart to go, but he has to satisfy his ego.:whistling:

Queen Sofia is King Charles III's second cousin (?) and also Queen Elizabeth II's third cousin. If King Felipe VI finds it appropriate , I suppose she should go, but it is the King's call.
 
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King Felipe and Queen Letizia will attend the funeral, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía have been invited but have not yet decided.

The Spanish Royal House confirms that the Netherlands and Belgium have also received invitations for their previous monarchs, and Denmark for the crown prince (they have said this because Juan Carlos's "friends" were already creating problems in the press).

https://www.20minutos.es/noticia/50...-a-falta-de-que-don-juan-carlos-decida-si-va/

King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía confirm their attendance at the funeral of the Queen Elizabeth


https://www.vanitatis.elconfidencia...invitado-funeral-isabel-ii-respuesta_3489235/
 
King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía confirm their attendance at the funeral of the Queen Elizabeth


https://www.vanitatis.elconfidencia...invitado-funeral-isabel-ii-respuesta_3489235/


The article mentions the information that Lula quoted, i.e., the invitations sent to the Belgian, Spanish and Dutch diplomatic delegations were extended to the current and former monarchs, plus their consorts, and the invitation sent to the Danish delegation was extended to the Queen and the Crown Prince.

So I suppose they did make exceptions for the European monarchies. I am assuming invitations sent to the diplomatic delegations of the republican countries mentioned only the Head of State and consort when applicable, but that is just a conjecture.

"La Embajada de España en el Reino Unido recibió ayer domingo una nota verbal del Foreign Office británico en la que se hace llegar a las delegaciones diplomáticas de Bélgica, Dinamarca, Países Bajos y España las invitaciones para el funeral por la Reina Isabel II el próximo lunes día 19 y actos paralelos programados. Las invitaciones están dirigidas a los jefes de Estado y exjefes de Estado y esposas o esposos de dichos países y al Príncipe heredero de Dinamarca".
 
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I don't think the 2 person rule's intended to stop royals who are relatives/personal friends from attending. They're just trying to keep the numbers down, and avoid anyone turning up with a big delegation (Donald Trump would no doubt have invited himself had the invitation to the USA not been restricted to Joe and Jill Biden!).

Several large chains of shops have said that they'll be closed on the day of the funeral.
 
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